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Topic ID 6930

14/12/2012 by buzz

PCSO's total waste of money

A couple of weeks ago I saw a couple of PCSO's looking at the vans, rubbish, cars & boat of the pikey who lives in New Road, Bengeo. I pointed out to them that he had a "No Waiting" cone, clearly marked as "East Herts Police" positioned by his car and boat, and that to the best of my knowledge, they were never sold off to members of the public, and that must therefore be stolen. He also had a cone marked "Essex Police". What did they do? Well, they must have mentioned it to him, because, the next day the words "East Herts Police" had been cut out of the cone.This is a gross neglect of duty. They should have seized the cones and labelled them as "Property Subject of Crime" while they carried out enquiries to discover how he had obtained them. Why are we paying for these idiots who do not have the basic knowledge of the law!


Replies

Reply ID 91566

14/12/2012 by Drama Queen

Dear Buzz, I am a little ignorant here, but I thought PCSOs had no clout and didn't think they could do much at all that regular Police can. I always felt they were just a presence and not much else. I am appauled to read your post and this person has created a dreadful eyesore and traffic obstruction where he lives. I would prefer a "proper" policeman/woman on the beat and not those who look like the real thing but have no powers whatsoever.. I hope someone reading these threads decides to investigate a little more fully what you mention above.. or does that constitute of breach of "his" human rights... ! I wait to see what happens.....


Reply ID 91567

14/12/2012 by dutch knight

Do you not think that these PCSOs reported to the relevent "real police" and may have been told to precede as they have done? I think that without having any real evidence as to what has gone on,you are being harsh on the PCSOs. As they may have been instructed to do as they have done,maybe you should be laying the blame on people higher up and the waste of money they are for allowing this to happen.


Reply ID 91568

14/12/2012 by james

Shall we all just agree to move this to the "When Threads Go Bad" topic now?


Reply ID 91569

14/12/2012 by Steve

quote:
Originally posted by james
Shall we all just agree to move this to the "When Threads Go Bad" topic now?
[:D]


Reply ID 91570

14/12/2012 by Darcy Sarto

quote:
Originally posted by james
Shall we all just agree to move this to the "When Threads Go Bad" topic now?
[:D][:D]


Reply ID 91571

14/12/2012 by spitfire

As you love to keep telling us Buzz, that you are an ex officer, you must know better than most of us the channels available to report bad practice/misconduct of herts police employees. I would suggest as you have an issue with the psco's is gather the evidence and report them, rather than bitching on here.


Reply ID 91572

15/12/2012 by Marilyn

On earlier occasions various vehicles etc have been taken away from this area but it never seems to be followed up to keep it clear and tidy and the person just goes and gets more and the whole cycle starts again. It always amazes me that the vehicles seem to have valid road tax which suggests MOT's and insurance must be valid as well! The car and boat have been there quite a while now, I wonder if there have been more complaints and the PCSO's were sent to see the situation before regular officers were sent. The thing about the cones is just another example of what he seems to be able to get away with.


Reply ID 91573

15/12/2012 by buzz

Well, thank you for your well thought out reply, "spitfire", an aptly named soubriquet. If I went through the usual channels.....guess what...........nothing would happen. By posting my "bitching" comment on here, people will be made aware of how useless PCSO's are.


Reply ID 91574

15/12/2012 by Leo Densian

You could always tweet David Lloyd in his role as the new caring, sharing Commissioner.


Reply ID 91575

15/12/2012 by buzz

quote:
Originally posted by james
Shall we all just agree to move this to the "When Threads Go Bad" topic now?
So it's just a little laughing matter then?


Reply ID 91576

15/12/2012 by James007

quote:
Originally posted by buzz
A couple of weeks ago I saw a couple of PCSO's
The missing apostrophe!


Reply ID 91577

15/12/2012 by dennismoore

It's disturbing to find a former police officer using a word like 'Pikey.'


Reply ID 91582

15/12/2012 by Darcy Sarto

quote:
Originally posted by buzz
quote:
Originally posted by james
Shall we all just agree to move this to the "When Threads Go Bad" topic now?
So it's just a little laughing matter then?
[:D][:D][:D]


Reply ID 91584

16/12/2012 by Marilyn

quote:
Originally posted by dennismoore
It's disturbing to find a former police officer using a word like 'Pikey.'
I must admit I was suprised by that.........the person in question has I believe lived in that house most if not all of his life.


Reply ID 91592

17/12/2012 by Ewoowar

This smacks more of a general issue with PCSOs. 'Total waste of money'? A rather harsh and sweeping statement.


Reply ID 91598

17/12/2012 by Louis M

quote:
Originally posted by Ewoowar
This smacks more of a general issue with PCSOs. 'Total waste of money'? A rather harsh and sweeping statement.
Although I believe that they have their hearts in the right place, or are waiting to become a ‘real’ Policeman/woman, tasks that the public feel that they should be involved in are often outside of their remit. I’m with Buzz on this one in that I do not believe that the role should exists. A policeman/woman is far more versatile reacting to the situation at hand (as opposed to calling someone else), a PCSO is stuck between a rock and a hard place, not supported by the public (as they can’t do anything) and not appropriately trained/empowered by the government. This is not a criticism of the PCSOs who I am sure become very frustrated with the situation, but the government who want a cheap alternative to Bobbies.


Reply ID 91599

17/12/2012 by Ewoowar

quote:
Originally posted by Louis M
quote:
Originally posted by Ewoowar
This smacks more of a general issue with PCSOs. 'Total waste of money'? A rather harsh and sweeping statement.
Although I believe that they have their hearts in the right place, or are waiting to become a ‘real’ Policeman/woman, tasks that the public feel that they should be involved in are often outside of their remit. I’m with Buzz on this one in that I do not believe that the role should exists. A policeman/woman is far more versatile reacting to the situation at hand (as opposed to calling someone else), a PCSO is stuck between a rock and a hard place, not supported by the public (as they can’t do anything) and not appropriately trained/empowered by the government. This is not a criticism of the PCSOs who I am sure become very frustrated with the situation, but the government who want a cheap alternative to Bobbies.
I reiterate and question the statement once more.........'A total waste of money'? The generalisation and sweeping statement is not justified.


Reply ID 91600

17/12/2012 by Louis M

Ewoowar, I see your point, however if a PCSO has to call a full policeman/woman anyway, would the money not have been better spent having a full one there in the first place? I also fully accept that there are undoubtedly situations where having a 35k a year policeman/woman cannot be justified i.e. guiding traffic like at the Christmas gala (where they used PCSOs).


Reply ID 91605

17/12/2012 by dudley

quote:
Originally posted by Louis M
Ewoowar, I see your point, however if a PCSO has to call a full policeman/woman anyway, would the money not have been better spent having a full one there in the first place? I also fully accept that there are undoubtedly situations where having a 35k a year policeman/woman cannot be justified i.e. guiding traffic like at the Christmas gala (where they used PCSOs).
Or clamping down on inter-county plastic cone theft?


Reply ID 91609

18/12/2012 by Kateg28

I do think there is some use and do not feel they are a total waste. In some areas the visibility of the uniform is still a deterrent and I have seen groups of feral youths scarper when a PCSO turns up.


Reply ID 91612

18/12/2012 by teddylad

isnt Hertford a lovely town....this post just proves that...the fact the only problem with Hertford life is PCSOs and plastic cone thefts is just wonderful...:)


Reply ID 91615

18/12/2012 by Forbes

I was never for the concept of PCSO's however my opinion has changed dramatically the past few years. On the few occasions I've had dealings with the local PCSO's they have been nothing less then excellent. On Sele Farm they provide a very positive presence, spending lots of time building a rapport with young and old and providing a great means of support in general. Likewise when I witnessed and reported a crime recently the police were there within about 4 minutes and proceeded to catch the culprits. The PCSO's were out on the street the next day knocking doors looking for other witnesses and I also received a phone call a week later from the local Sergeant thanking me for my help I understand everyone's experience of PCSO's may not always be so positive but from my own perspective they are a great asset and well worth the money [:)]. Try having the @hertfordpolice tweets sent to your mobile, it certainly opens your eyes to the police activities you wouldn't otherwise be aware of.


Reply ID 91617

18/12/2012 by aubend

Given that Buzz is an ex police officer and so probably retired early (in whatever circumstances that may be) on a hefty pension - I would ascertain that HE is total waste of money.


Reply ID 91618

18/12/2012 by Moulder

quote:
Originally posted by aubend
Given that Buzz is an ex police officer and so probably retired early (in whatever circumstances that may be) on a hefty pension - I would ascertain that HE is total waste of money.
You're not far wrong there aubend - hours spent in the canteen gorging on fry-ups (subsidised I hasten to add) - with a marked reluctance to get out and about unless it was in the comfort of a Panda car. Of course the OP describes first hand experience of the situation until ....... Well, they must have mentioned it to him, .....then it is pure speculation and drivel. PCSOs manage what buzz could never do ......... get out and walk the beat! [:0][;)]


Reply ID 91619

18/12/2012 by Darcy Sarto

quote:
Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
quote:
Originally posted by buzz
quote:
Originally posted by james
Shall we all just agree to move this to the "When Threads Go Bad" topic now?
So it's just a little laughing matter then?
[:D][:D][:D]
[:D][:D][:D][:D]


Reply ID 91621

18/12/2012 by buzz

quote:
Originally posted by aubend
Given that Buzz is an ex police officer and so probably retired early (in whatever circumstances that may be) on a hefty pension - I would ascertain that HE is total waste of money.
"probaly retired early..." speculation "I would ascertain that HE is a total waste of money" Look up the definition of "ascertain" then explain how you are going to do this.


Reply ID 91623

18/12/2012 by buzz

quote:
Originally posted by Moulder
[quote]Originally posted by aubend
Given that Buzz is an ex police officer and so probably retired early (in whatever circumstances that may be) on a hefty pension - I would ascertain that HE is total waste of money.
You're not far wrong there aubend - hours spent in the canteen gorging on fry-ups (subsidised I hasten to add) - with a marked reluctance to get out and about unless it was in the comfort of a Panda car. Of course the OP describes first hand experience of the situation until ....... Well, they must have mentioned it to him, .....then it is pure speculation and drivel. PCSOs manage what buzz could never do ......... get out and walk the beat! [:0][;)] [/quote So, Moulder, you have reliable information as to how I spent 30 years then? With the absolute nonsense that you spout, with no credible facts to back it up, I would suggest you become a politician


Reply ID 91624

18/12/2012 by Leo Densian

Ditto the 4th post [:(]


Reply ID 91625

18/12/2012 by Darcy Sarto

quote:
Originally posted by buzz
quote:
Originally posted by aubend
Given that Buzz is an ex police officer and so probably retired early (in whatever circumstances that may be) on a hefty pension - I would ascertain that HE is total waste of money.
"probaly retired early..." speculation "I would ascertain that HE is a total waste of money" Look up the definition of "ascertain" then explain how you are going to do this.
When you edited your own posting its a shame you missed the "probaly". [:D][}:)]


Reply ID 91627

18/12/2012 by Mark MG

I think that Buzz is perfectly entitled to his opinion, as are other people. If he thinks that PCSOs are a "total" waste of money, then that is his opinion. I am not sure it is appropriate to make some of the personal attacks against Buzz either. I was not a big fan of the principle of PCSOs, however upon reflection they can act as eyes and ears for the regular Police, and they do provide some visibility. Moreover as they are paid less, if there is a choice between PCSOs or scrapping them with no extra Police, then I would chose PCSOs. I wonder if the issue is not the existence of PCSOs themselves, but rather which people are chosen to be PCSOs. What are the required qualifications etc? I think that PCSOs have the same powers as we do, which is to arrest someone until such time as a regular Police officer can attend. Nevertheless, as Buzz is a former Police Officer, my view is that he should be afforded some respect, it is a difficult and often thankless role, in all weathers and where they may face the threat of assault or worse on a daily basis. There have been so many examples over the past few years of Police Officers killed in the line of duty. There are not many jobs where people face such threats. As for subsidised dinners etc, this is normal for many employees, I don't see why the Police should be singled out for criticism.


Reply ID 91629

19/12/2012 by newcomer

quote:
Originally posted by Leo Densian
You could always tweet David Lloyd in his role as the new caring, sharing Commissioner.
Ah you mean [url="http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/four_jobs_dave_jibe_at_hertfordshire_police_and_crime_commissioner_david_lloyd_1_1724420"]"4 Jobs"[/url] Dave. Maybe you'll be lucky enough to catch him in the office!


Reply ID 91631

19/12/2012 by buzz

quote:
Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
quote:
Originally posted by buzz
quote:
Originally posted by aubend
Given that Buzz is an ex police officer and so probably retired early (in whatever circumstances that may be) on a hefty pension - I would ascertain that HE is total waste of money.
"probaly retired early..." speculation "I would ascertain that HE is a total waste of money" Look up the definition of "ascertain" then explain how you are going to do this.
When you edited your own posting its a shame you missed the "probaly". [:D][}:)]
Fair point


Reply ID 91632

19/12/2012 by buzz

Thank you for your remarks, Mark MG. I'm afraid it is the fashion these days to slag off the police, by people who have no real comprehension of what the job entails.


Reply ID 91633

19/12/2012 by Moulder

quote:
Originally posted by buzz
Thank you for your remarks, Mark MG. I'm afraid it is the fashion these days to slag off the police, by people who have no real comprehension of what the job entails.
Alas .... it is also the fashion for people to slag off PCSOs when they have no real understanding what that job entails. [:(]


Reply ID 91635

19/12/2012 by aubend

quote:
Originally posted by buzz
Thank you for your remarks, Mark MG. I'm afraid it is the fashion these days to slag off the police, by people who have no real comprehension of what the job entails.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/apr/04/police-pensions-budget-20bn


Reply ID 91639

19/12/2012 by Enoughofthat

I don't understand the logic of because an individual, by their own unprompted and uncorroborated account, has in the past and on occasion acted selflessly and heroically, they are somehow excused to make lazy, racist, ignorant, intolerant, abusive and generally derogatory comments. Any credit and respect accrued due to past virtues is devalued by each new bigoted, unfairly judgemental and derogatory remark.


Reply ID 91645

19/12/2012 by Louis M

Here we go, Robin Hood has arrived.


Reply ID 91646

19/12/2012 by buzz

quote:
Originally posted by Moulder
quote:
Originally posted by buzz
Thank you for your remarks, Mark MG. I'm afraid it is the fashion these days to slag off the police, by people who have no real comprehension of what the job entails.
Alas .... it is also the fashion for people to slag off PCSOs when they have no real understanding what that job entails. [:(]
I think I probably have a better understanding than a lot of people on here...including you.


Reply ID 91647

19/12/2012 by buzz

quote:
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
I don't understand the logic of because an individual, by their own unprompted and uncorroborated account, has in the past and on occasion acted selflessly and heroically, they are somehow excused to make lazy, racist, ignorant, intolerant, abusive and generally derogatory comments. Any credit and respect accrued due to past virtues is devalued by each new bigoted, unfairly judgemental and derogatory remark.
"ignorant, intolerant, abusive and generally derogatory comments." "bigoted, unfairly judgemental and derogatory remark." The phrase "Pot calling the kettle black" comes to mind. Or is that racist too?


Reply ID 91648

19/12/2012 by Mark MG

I am not sure it is necessary to refer to Buzz by some of the terms I have seen on here. I think he was merely expressing his opinion on PCSOs - I don't necessaryily agree with them, but as he has a former Police background he obviously knows a lot more about it then most of us do, and therefore he is fully entitled to his opinion. I don't think Buzz deserves the vitriol which he is receiving in this particular topic - calling someone a racist is a serious allegation!


Reply ID 91649

19/12/2012 by Enoughofthat

calling someone a racist is a serious allegation Indeed it is, but no one has made any such allegation. However "pikey" is a derogatory reference to race. It doesn't necessarily follow that the use of a racist term makes the abuser a racist. Even so, it is an ugly, ignorant sentiment and not one I readily associate with a selfless heroic pillar of society.


Reply ID 91650

19/12/2012 by Mark MG

quote:
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
calling someone a racist is a serious allegation Indeed it is, but no one has made any such allegation. However "pikey" is a derogatory reference to race. It doesn't necessarily follow that the use of a racist term makes the abuser a racist. Even so, it is an ugly, ignorant sentiment and not one I readily associate with a selfless heroic pillar of society.
I am not sure how things have managed to escalate on here so fast! Maybe we should all take a deep breath.


Reply ID 91652

19/12/2012 by dennismoore

quote:
Originally posted by Mark MG
I am not sure it is necessary to refer to Buzz by some of the terms I have seen on here. I think he was merely expressing his opinion on PCSOs - I don't necessaryily agree with them, but as he has a former Police background he obviously knows a lot more about it then most of us do, and therefore he is fully entitled to his opinion. I don't think Buzz deserves the vitriol which he is receiving in this particular topic - calling someone a racist is a serious allegation!
Nobody has called buzz a racist. You can't say something like that and then complain that 'things have escalated'. I think buzz was more than 'merely expressing his opinion on PCSOs' when he called someone a 'Pikey'. Hopefully attitudes like that are representative of the Police force a generation ago and not of how they are today.


Reply ID 91653

19/12/2012 by Forbes

They prefer "Pleb" nowadays [:D]


Reply ID 91655

19/12/2012 by Louis M

Pikey doesn’t have the same connotations that it perhaps once had. It certainly doesn’t denote a race any longer.


Reply ID 91656

19/12/2012 by Mark MG

quote:
Originally posted by dennismoore
quote:
Originally posted by Mark MG
I am not sure it is necessary to refer to Buzz by some of the terms I have seen on here. I think he was merely expressing his opinion on PCSOs - I don't necessaryily agree with them, but as he has a former Police background he obviously knows a lot more about it then most of us do, and therefore he is fully entitled to his opinion. I don't think Buzz deserves the vitriol which he is receiving in this particular topic - calling someone a racist is a serious allegation!
Nobody has called buzz a racist. You can't say something like that and then complain that 'things have escalated'. I think buzz was more than 'merely expressing his opinion on PCSOs' when he called someone a 'Pikey'. Hopefully attitudes like that are representative of the Police force a generation ago and not of how they are today.
The implication was clearly in the original post which also called him all manner of names including ignorant and bigot etc. You may want to have a read of the original post before you start lecturing me about what was or what was not said. Its up to Buzz to say whatever he likes about PCSOs - he knows much more about this than the rest of us, and I don't think it is appropriate for people to gang up on someone and attempt to bully them by calling them names for simply expressing an opinion.


Reply ID 91658

19/12/2012 by dennismoore

Apologies, I now see that the word 'racist' was indeed used on a previous page. But I still maintain that anyone using an offensive (and by some definitions racist) word like 'pikey' to describe another resident who is not here to defend themselves should not expect to go unchallenged. Especially when they are a retired police officer, who often uses that fact to add weight to their argument.


Reply ID 91660

19/12/2012 by Mark MG

quote:
Originally posted by dennismoore
Apologies, I now see that the word 'racist' was indeed used on a previous page. But I still maintain that anyone using an offensive (and by some definitions racist) word like 'pikey' to describe another resident who is not here to defend themselves should not expect to go unchallenged. Especially when they are a retired police officer, who often uses that fact to add weight to their argument.
Thanks Dennismoore for the apology - no need to apologise as no offence was taken. The word "racist" was tucked away so it was hard to see at first glance. I do not necessarily agree with everything that Buzz has said about the PCSOs but I believe that he, like the rest of us, is entitled to an opinion about them, and moreover his opinion comes from a great deal of experience which people like me will never have - such as the daily threat of assault (whether physical or verbal), going out in all hours and all weathers, often facing ridicule from an occasionally ill informed public, and getting the blame when things go wrong. Its a role I could not do, and those who have done it, in my view, are entitled a certain amount of respect. The people who have made comments about their discounted meals or their pensions, need to balance their views with the challenges the Police face on a daily basis in protecting the rest of us. I have nothing but respect for the Police and the work they do, yes there are occasionally a few bad apples as there are in all professions, but they perform a valuable and essential role for all of us and should be treated with some respect. Would many of us want to go running into crack houses not knowing what they will find in there, or having to police violent demonstrations, or arrest violent thugs? If anything, the Police desere every penny they earn and should be properly rewarded.


Reply ID 91661

19/12/2012 by dennismoore

I too have respect for the police, but that respect quickly evaporates the moment they publicly use offensive language to describe other members of the community


Reply ID 91662

19/12/2012 by Mark MG

quote:
Originally posted by dennismoore
I too have respect for the police, but that respect quickly evaporates the moment they publicly use offensive language to describe other members of the community
I think the "P" word may have different meanings to different people. Personally I had never even heard it until my early thirties, I know some people find it offensive and some don't.


Reply ID 91664

19/12/2012 by Enoughofthat

However the reader may interpret the relative offensiveness of the term it is self evident that it was not intended as a term of endearment. The overarching irony in asserting that the Police should be accorded due respect, is the apparent contempt that a retired policeman now comfortably enjoying a pension, holds for those that do the job now.


Reply ID 91666

19/12/2012 by Steve

Loosely related, but an interesting viewpoint: [url="http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/graemearcher/100194982/say-hello-to-the-police-federation-wave-goodbye-to-automatic-respect/"]Wave goodbye to automatic respect for the police[/url] (from The Daily Telegraph)


Reply ID 91667

19/12/2012 by Mark MG

quote:
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
However the reader may interpret the relative offensiveness of the term it is self evident that it was not intended as a term of endearment. The overarching irony in asserting that the Police should be accorded due respect, is the apparent contempt that a retired policeman now comfortably enjoying a pension, holds for those that do the job now.
I didn't see any criticism of the Police in Buzz's posting, he was referring to the principle of PCSOs which are slightly different. As for the pension, I am not sure that drawing a pension means that you sign away your right to free speech! I am not sure where this obsession with Police pensions comes from. They are entitled to their pensions, they worked for it, let them have it. Public sector workers earn less than their counterparts in the private sector!


Reply ID 91669

19/12/2012 by Darcy Sarto

quote:
Originally posted by james
Shall we all just agree to move this to the "When Threads Go Bad" topic now?
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:p]


Reply ID 91670

19/12/2012 by Louis M

quote:
Originally posted by Mark MG
quote:
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
However the reader may interpret the relative offensiveness of the term it is self evident that it was not intended as a term of endearment. The overarching irony in asserting that the Police should be accorded due respect, is the apparent contempt that a retired policeman now comfortably enjoying a pension, holds for those that do the job now.
I didn't see any criticism of the Police in Buzz's posting, he was referring to the principle of PCSOs which are slightly different. As for the pension, I am not sure that drawing a pension means that you sign away your right to free speech! I am not sure where this obsession with Police pensions comes from. They are entitled to their pensions, they worked for it, let them have it. Public sector workers earn less than their counterparts in the private sector!
Agreed, whats your point about his pension EOT?


Reply ID 91671

19/12/2012 by Enoughofthat

You are making tremendous efforts to misunderstand and misrepresent elements of this thread to justify your original ill judged decision to wade in half- cocked to defend the, frankly, indefensible. You're not a lawyer by chance? Nowhere in this thread other your own posts has any one denied to anyone an opinion or the right to express it. and It is you alone who seems hung up on the conveniently distracting issue of police pensions. You seem to wilfully misconstrue a criticism as a denial of the right to express an opinion. It is not. It is just another opinion that is equally valid to hold, but which opposes the opinion with which you sympathise. There is a heady view up there in the top tier of the moral grandstand but you are sitting in someone else's seat.


Reply ID 91673

19/12/2012 by Mark MG

quote:
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
You are making tremendous efforts to misunderstand and misrepresent elements of this thread to justify your original ill judged decision to wade in half- cocked to defend the, frankly, indefensible. You're not a lawyer by chance? Nowhere in this thread other your own posts has any one denied to anyone an opinion or the right to express it. and It is you alone who seems hung up on the conveniently distracting issue of police pensions. You seem to wilfully misconstrue a criticism as a denial of the right to express an opinion. It is not. It is just another opinion that is equally valid to hold, but which opposes the opinion with which you sympathise. There is a heady view up there in the top tier of the moral grandstand but you are sitting in someone else's seat.
Is it really necessary to resort to personal remarks when trying to express an opinion? Just in case you don't know what I am referring to, I mean referring to people as having "ill judged opinions" and "wading in half cocked." Your words, not mine btw. Surely you can at least try to find a better way of expressing yourself without resorting to insults? The issue of Police pensions did not originate from me - even a cursory reading of this relatively brief forum would have demonstrated that. You may wish to familiarise yourself with the entire dicussion. Why do you seek to deny people the right to have an opinion which you disagree with? Why resort to personal remarks in expressing your own opinions? I have said numerous times that Buzz is as entitled to his opinions as the rest of us are. You appear to be incredibly angry for no apparent reason, and attempt to stamp on anyone who expresses an opinion contrary to your own. I have not resorted to personal remarks against anyone, simply because I don't feel the need to and I don't think it is appropriate. I suggest you do the same.


Reply ID 91674

19/12/2012 by Razor

quote:
Originally posted by Mark MG
quote:
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
However the reader may interpret the relative offensiveness of the term it is self evident that it was not intended as a term of endearment. The overarching irony in asserting that the Police should be accorded due respect, is the apparent contempt that a retired policeman now comfortably enjoying a pension, holds for those that do the job now.
I didn't see any criticism of the Police in Buzz's posting, he was referring to the principle of PCSOs which are slightly different. As for the pension, I am not sure that drawing a pension means that you sign away your right to free speech! I am not sure where this obsession with Police pensions comes from. They are entitled to their pensions, they worked for it, let them have it. Public sector workers earn less than their counterparts in the private sector!
No they don't. That is very out of date argument and one that hasn't been true for many years now. (sorry, a bit off-topic but just wanted to pick up on that comment)


Reply ID 91675

19/12/2012 by Mark MG

quote:
Originally posted by Razor
quote:
Originally posted by Mark MG
quote:
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
However the reader may interpret the relative offensiveness of the term it is self evident that it was not intended as a term of endearment. The overarching irony in asserting that the Police should be accorded due respect, is the apparent contempt that a retired policeman now comfortably enjoying a pension, holds for those that do the job now.
I didn't see any criticism of the Police in Buzz's posting, he was referring to the principle of PCSOs which are slightly different. As for the pension, I am not sure that drawing a pension means that you sign away your right to free speech! I am not sure where this obsession with Police pensions comes from. They are entitled to their pensions, they worked for it, let them have it. Public sector workers earn less than their counterparts in the private sector!
No they don't. That is very out of date argument and one that hasn't been true for many years now. (sorry, a bit off-topic but just wanted to pick up on that comment)
A large number of people in the public sector do earn a lot less than their counterparts in the private sector. Equally there are some people in the public sector on vastly higher salaries than people outside, for example Chief Executives of local authorities, some of them are on tremendous amounts.


Reply ID 91677

19/12/2012 by Kateg28

I think if you compare the entire package of someone in private sector against their counterpart in the public sector, the public sector package is normally higher. Entire package including the pension. And for the sake of good order, I work in the private sector, higher rate tax payer but have lost my final salary pension along with 90% of the private sector and it is now a Defined Contributions basis.


Reply ID 91678

19/12/2012 by Enoughofthat

Okay this is my final contribution. Mark MG by perceiving anger where there is none and taking criticism as personal insult you seem to be projecting a few of your own issues on to anyone who has the temerity to contradict you.


Reply ID 91679

19/12/2012 by Woody

quote:
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
Okay this is my final contribution. Mark MG by perceiving anger where there is none and taking criticism as personal insult you seem to be projecting a few of your own issues on to anyone who has the temerity to contradict you.
Perhaps he thinks your chimp has been released from it's cage? [;)] http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=6755&whichpage=1


Reply ID 91681

19/12/2012 by James007

I think the PCSO brigade do a great job; a high visibility presence to reassure the elderly or infirm and a high visibility presence to let the feral part of society know that they are being kept a watch on. They are also a great source of contact for any tourist. I trust that my input is understood and that no mirrors, doctors, self-help books, monkeys or strangely worded sentences have not been negatively interpreted from the above statement. Therefore. For the record, PCSO gets my vote.


Reply ID 91682

19/12/2012 by Mark MG

quote:
Originally posted by Woody
quote:
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
Okay this is my final contribution. Mark MG by perceiving anger where there is none and taking criticism as personal insult you seem to be projecting a few of your own issues on to anyone who has the temerity to contradict you.
Perhaps he thinks your chimp has been released from it's cage? [;)] http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=6755&whichpage=1
Goodness he is an angry chap isn't he. If he is this unpalatable in text I can only imagine how charming he is in person. There are some people who dish out insults but cannot stand any form of criticism themselves.


Reply ID 91683

19/12/2012 by Razor

Well done to James007 for bringing things back OT. MarkMG and EoT I think youve both made some good points relative to your respective positions and there's really no need for the personal bickering from either side.


Reply ID 91686

19/12/2012 by dudley

People of Hertford! Stop this internecine bickering. Can't you see that this is exactly what the plastic cone thiefs want? It is only by joining together that we can defeat this scourge (which i think is where this all started) Say No To Historical Inter-County Cone Theft. Call me an idealist but I'm pretty sure that's a sentiment we can all agree on.


Reply ID 91688

19/12/2012 by James007

quote:
Originally posted by dudley
People of Hertford! Stop this internecine bickering. Can't you see that this is exactly what the plastic cone thiefs want? It is only by joining together that we can defeat this scourge (which i think is where this all started) Say No To Historical Inter-County Cone Theft. Call me an idealist but I'm pretty sure that's a sentiment we can all agree on.
This thread isn't about 'this scourge' or 'Inter-County Cone Theft'. It is about the worth of Police Community SUPPORT Officers, and the key word is in the capital letters. They support the police officers very well.


Reply ID 91689

19/12/2012 by Mark MG

Agreed with the last three posters.


Reply ID 91691

19/12/2012 by Moulder

As do I - PCSOs do an excellent job in the role that was created for them. It is only the luddite, old school coppers that were on shaky ground when in the job that perceive them as a threat and therefore criticise them at every opportunity. Policing has moved on and some do not understand this.


Reply ID 91693

20/12/2012 by Steve

Ditto here too. Always found PCSOs both approachable and helpful.


Reply ID 91695

20/12/2012 by Louis M

quote:
Originally posted by dudley
People of Hertford! Stop this internecine bickering. Can't you see that this is exactly what the plastic cone thiefs want? It is only by joining together that we can defeat this scourge (which i think is where this all started) Say No To Historical Inter-County Cone Theft. Call me an idealist but I'm pretty sure that's a sentiment we can all agree on.
Very funny, it’s a shame a few on here take themselves too seriously :) Vote Dudley!


Reply ID 91704

20/12/2012 by night owl

Do these PCSO,s get paid for doing this job or just expense,s but the way I see them, they are doing a good job and they are the one,s walking the beat instead of the real police but the PCSO,s can always call up the real police who will respond to their call unlike reporting it over the phone yourself unless you dial 999, so they get my vote. P.S. Does anyone want to buy a police cone? :-)


Reply ID 91708

21/12/2012 by buzz

quote:
Originally posted by night owl
Do these PCSO,s get paid for doing this job or just expense,s but the way I see them, they are doing a good job and they are the one,s walking the beat instead of the real police but the PCSO,s can always call up the real police who will respond to their call unlike reporting it over the phone yourself unless you dial 999, so they get my vote. P.S. Does anyone want to buy a police cone? :-)
Well, here is an anomaly: PCSO's get paid, but have very little powers. Special Constables, on the other hand, don't get paid, but have all the powers of a regular Police Officer.


Reply ID 91709

21/12/2012 by Steve

quote:
Originally posted by buzz
... PCSO's get paid ...
No, PCSOs get paid


Reply ID 91714

21/12/2012 by 2929paul

quote:
Originally posted by buzz
quote:
Originally posted by night owl
Do these PCSO,s get paid for doing this job or just expense,s but the way I see them, they are doing a good job and they are the one,s walking the beat instead of the real police but the PCSO,s can always call up the real police who will respond to their call unlike reporting it over the phone yourself unless you dial 999, so they get my vote. P.S. Does anyone want to buy a police cone? :-)
Well, here is an anomaly: PCSO's get paid, but have very little powers. Special Constables, on the other hand, don't get paid, but have all the powers of a regular Police Officer.
Little powers, little power or few powers?


Reply ID 91717

21/12/2012 by Mark MG

quote:
Originally posted by 2929paul
quote:
Originally posted by buzz
quote:
Originally posted by night owl
Do these PCSO,s get paid for doing this job or just expense,s but the way I see them, they are doing a good job and they are the one,s walking the beat instead of the real police but the PCSO,s can always call up the real police who will respond to their call unlike reporting it over the phone yourself unless you dial 999, so they get my vote. P.S. Does anyone want to buy a police cone? :-)
Well, here is an anomaly: PCSO's get paid, but have very little powers. Special Constables, on the other hand, don't get paid, but have all the powers of a regular Police Officer.
Little powers, little power or few powers?
Having looked into this, as indicated in my earlier post, they have the same power of arrest as the rest of us (the citizen's arrest) and also they may detain/temporary arrest, and they may also use handcuffs and leg restraints (if approved by the Chief Constable). They can use CS spray and batons as well, and issue fixed penalty notices, as well as a small number of other discrete powers, such as seizing alcohol and tobacco. I think they probably have more powers than appears at first blush, and much of it appears to be (theoretically) closely controlled by the Chief Constable. I still think they are a good idea, if the alternative is to have nothing, then I would rather have them. Moreover, given they are in a position of authority I think they should be afforded the same respect as the Police. If anyone has ever looked on Youtube and seen the many instances of people trying to intimidate the Police by recording them and goading them, you may appreciate why I consider that the Police are not sufficiently respected, and why their roles are becoming harder not easier.


Reply ID 91730

22/12/2012 by buzz

http://youtu.be/2VPs3cF8vOI Merry Christmas!


Reply ID 92501

04/02/2013 by Mosquito

I just wanted to pass on my recent experience of PCSO's. In the past few years I have had numerous dealings with the police via my managers in the two restaurants I own. I have to say that I have become very disillusioned with the police at not taking a great deal of interest in, and not being able to clear up the crimes committed. These range from; burglary, assaults on staff, vandalism, theft and forged money etc. However, I am very pleased to report that following a recent couple 'doing a runner' from Old Siam (having had a three course meal and consumed a fair amount of liquor), that thanks to PCSO Debbie Marshall we recovered our money in full. I was very impressed with how quickly this was cleared up, and how seriously she took the offence. Thanks also to PC Trudy Howell. I conclude that PCSO's have actually improved the policing in Hertford.


Reply ID 92502

05/02/2013 by Steve

quote:
Originally posted by Mosquito
I just wanted to pass on my recent experience of PCSO's.
Before the Apostrophe Nazis get on to you, you're commenting on PCSOs. Wait... Doh! [;)][:p][:D]


Reply ID 92556

07/02/2013 by 2929paul

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by Mosquito
I just wanted to pass on my recent experience of PCSO's.
Before the Apostrophe Nazis get on to you, you're commenting on PCSOs. Wait... Doh! [;)][:p][:D]
To continue off topic http://www.eng-lang.co.uk/apostrophe_rules.htm But to get back on topic, PCSOs get a big thumbs up from me. They are a visible presence of the police in the town and provide I'm sure many people feel safer seeing them walking around Hertford.


80 replies