Topic ID 663
hi this is qite near my age so i thought i should say something! i noticed that alot of people have been complaining about the fact that there are alot of teenagers hanging aroung town and generally looking menacing! well where is there for them to go in hertford????[:0]I have a younger sister and her and her friends find it hard to find something to do at the weekend so they end up hangin about down by the canal! soem people in my sisters class get bored so they vandalize things and also hang around shop shouting abuse at people. i think to stop this there should be a plce for teenagers. maybe an arcade of ciname. i know that there isnt much space but it would be a good thing![:X] plz reply!
Reply ID 6787
quote:The only cure for boredom is vandalism?????and abuse????? Why dont you go home, read a book, get an education and gear yourself up for adulthood.
Originally posted by belle
hi this is qite near my age so i thought i should say something! i noticed that alot of people have been complaining about the fact that there are alot of teenagers hanging aroung town and generally looking menacing! well where is there for them to go in hertford????[:0]I have a younger sister and her and her friends find it hard to find something to do at the weekend so they end up hangin about down by the canal! soem people in my sisters class get bored so they vandalize things and also hang around shop shouting abuse at people. i think to stop this there should be a plce for teenagers. maybe an arcade of ciname. i know that there isnt much space but it would be a good thing![:X] plz reply!
Reply ID 6790
OMG! I've heard it all now, I was born in Hertford and when I was a teenager my mates and I went fishing, swimming, played football in the park and generally kept ourselves entertained without resorting to abuse ect! It seems TV & Playstations have taken their toll on the teenage imagination.
Reply ID 6794
i only meant that i know alot of people who dont have anywhere to go and so hang around chip shops looking scary! sorry if you don't all agree! i've seen lots of teenagers moping about and now-a-days you have your grungers, goths and chavs all looking to start fights! [:)] ty!
Reply ID 6797
With regards to things to do I don't think much has changed, during my teenage years there was no cinema in Hertford, we would (when we had money) go to Stevenage for that. As for home entertainment we only had 3-4 tv channels there was no internet, dvd's or playstations so if anything there was less to do. I know it sounds way uncool (as my son would say) but in my time most kids had an interest to pursue, it didn't matter if it was train spotting or modeling it did on the whole keep most of us out of trouble. Time to take off the rose tinted specs, me thinks.[8D]
Reply ID 6798
Belle boredom is absolutely no excuse to be abusive. People have hung around the streets for years but they weren't always violent, didn't pick on people or be as rude as they are now. It seems you guys can't even be bothered to find a decent reason now and seem to think that blaming it on the town you live in is acceptable!
Reply ID 6812
It seems you guys can't even be bothered to find a decent reason now and seem to think that blaming it on the town you live in is acceptable! smiley what do you mean by "YOU GUYS"?? ive never been like that but i know lots of people who have nothing to do so they hang around places trying to cause trouble. its not all teenagers but some do! i also never said anything about violence i only said about them hsouting insults at people![B)]im not trying to cause offence but has no-one ever had something shouted at them in the street by a group of youths. i am only suggesting that they have somewhere to go so that they dont cause trouble. i don't want you all to hate me and think that i'm stupid, i am only trying to adress the fact that many young teens DO resort to being unpleasant as a result of boredom. you all say thtta they can just go home and watch tv or go on the computer or even fish. soem families are poor and cant afford all of these nice things and where the hell can you go and fish????[?] only looking out for old people[:(!][:I][:)]sorry if i offended anyone because i am not saying all youths!
Reply ID 6813
You can fish within a 5 minute walk of Hertford Castle. In fact I recall seeing fishermen in the grounds there a few years back.
Reply ID 6815
much as that may be the case Belle, boredom is still not an excuse for it all. No you didn't mention anything about violence and I didn't say you had but that is what is happening and has been mentioned in other threads before, it is always boredom that is used as an excuse which I find completely unacceptable.[:(!] I don't think anyone on this forum would regard themselves as 'old' [;)]and as I haven't even reached the 30 mark yet I think I am still within my remit to say that 'in my day' as it were (so not that long ago!), we all had the same problem of 'nowhere to go' but we didn't do this sort of thing (see the thread about the chicken shop guy) because we didn't have the guts/balls/idiot minds to be so dis-respectful. I think the majority of people - should I say adults - agree that is the way these human beings [?] are being raised. If their parents knew where their 12 year old was at 2am in the morning [V][?] that would help, even more so if they weren't even out at that time of night!! I could go on for hours but as I have said we have gone over this topic many times before - please read them and you will see what we all think. [^]
Reply ID 6816
I agree but we do need to remember some of the hassle in town is caused by the 'older' contingent - can't blame it all on the Teenagers. I have one and it terrifies me. You can't keep them on a ball and chain but you can monitor them. I hope mine would not be causing trouble in the town - I could be lurking around the corner [}:)] I did grow up with the Cinema in Hertford, but now I imagine the prices would be prohibitive. We need to be able to ask the Kids what they actually want then maybe we could find the way forward and help in some way [:)] Although this is a Hertford site and that's the way it should be, lets not loose sight that this is a nationwide problem not just US.
Reply ID 6841
I feel I need to stick up for Belle. I am in my mid 20s, so can quite easily remember my teenage years. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that boredom is no excuse for vandalising and being abusive to people, for those young people who cannot afford to pay to go to the cinema, swimming etc to find something to do will be difficult. I think it is a shame that Belle has got such a negative reaction from everyone. I beleive that many of the problems with young people today is that they may not have the same sense of community as young people did a few years back. There is not so much interaction between the generations and this in turn leads to both not understanding each other. I would guess Belle is in the minority age range here, and I think it diasppointing that her views have been so easily ignored.
Reply ID 6845
the thing is, i believe if you have a mentality to vandalise things or be abusive , you will do these things whether its on the street corner, in a cinema, in an arcade or wherever. There is no excuse for behaviour like this, so what i suggest is that these kids, go home plead with their parents to educate them in the rights and wrongs of this world . Loutish behaviour should not be tolerated anywhere, and building a cinema or creating a sense of community will not stop these idiots from behaving this way.
Reply ID 6846
I think I agreed with Belle to a certain extent. Some of the 'Oldies' are just as bad and have had more years experience in being Thugs [:(] Everybody blames The Kids, The Parents, The Schools - lets stop the Blame culture and get on with it. If we ask them what they want and we can go someway towards it and the trouble still happens then tell me I'm a prat for believing we can change things. Well done Belle - we need some young blood on the site - this is about everyone, old, young, us middly ones - anyone. Everyone has a right to their point of view. We have a wonderful Town - lets make it better [:X]
Reply ID 6849
I agree with providing facilities for teenagers. Boredom is no excuse for bad behaviour but it does change the way in which you behave. And we must not give them what we think they want. Consultation is crucial.
Reply ID 6852
Education is the problem, home and school. If you are eduacated what is right and what is wrong at home and at school you will more or less stick to these rules. (maybe breaking them once or twice to see what its like) If you give an 11 year old kid a playstation and a game called "Grand Theft Auto" they will thnk that tehy can get away with behavior like that in everyday life. Unless you as the parent educate them according. As 16 year old in Hertford some 17 years ago, there was pretty much the same amount to do as there is now, but most teenagers seemed to have more respect. Why? Education would be my guess. Prehaps Hertford as a town has had more ill educated people move here in the last 10 years. My peers were certainly no softies, but we would never have dreamt of behaving such as certain youths do these days. But then again, we did spend most evenings playing fuzzy duck in the Schoolpack!
Reply ID 6855
quote:Nobody is ignoring Belle or her views, they simply are not necessarily agreed with.
Originally posted by Beakerbear
I feel I need to stick up for Belle. I am in my mid 20s, so can quite easily remember my teenage years. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that boredom is no excuse for vandalising and being abusive to people, for those young people who cannot afford to pay to go to the cinema, swimming etc to find something to do will be difficult. I think it is a shame that Belle has got such a negative reaction from everyone. I beleive that many of the problems with young people today is that they may not have the same sense of community as young people did a few years back. There is not so much interaction between the generations and this in turn leads to both not understanding each other. I would guess Belle is in the minority age range here, and I think it diasppointing that her views have been so easily ignored.
Reply ID 6865
In my experience the schools do try very hard to discipline the kids. The problem arises when in many cases little Johnny's Mum or Dad go charging into the school giving the teachers abuse because they dont like the fact that someone has dared discipline their child (who of coarse can do no wrong), this then totally discredits school discipline leaving little Johnny thinking his untouchable.
Reply ID 6867
I agree, most teachers do tend to try and show kids the right path. But if their parents are already leading them up the wrong one, or not a the junction stopping them from taking the path to oblivion, then I am afraid there is no hope.
Reply ID 7030
quote:People not understanding or agreeing with each other is still no excuse. I had bugger all to do growing up around Hertford, but I never vandalised stuff, shouted abuse at people or kicked someone in for a "laugh". Belle is trying to defend the undefendable. Part of the problem lies with people agreeing with them. They then feel more justified in their actions.
Originally posted by Beakerbear
I feel I need to stick up for Belle. I am in my mid 20s, so can quite easily remember my teenage years. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that boredom is no excuse for vandalising and being abusive to people, for those young people who cannot afford to pay to go to the cinema, swimming etc to find something to do will be difficult. I think it is a shame that Belle has got such a negative reaction from everyone. I beleive that many of the problems with young people today is that they may not have the same sense of community as young people did a few years back. There is not so much interaction between the generations and this in turn leads to both not understanding each other. I would guess Belle is in the minority age range here, and I think it diasppointing that her views have been so easily ignored.
Reply ID 7033
This wasn't im Hertford but is certainly on topic! Yesterday I detained a shoplifter, not a rare occurance as I spend most of my time in london stores, however this one was 10 yes 10 years old! He also tried to attack myself and a security guard with a metal pole!!! The woman with him (over 18) was waiting outside, she got in her car and drove off leaving this 10 yr old alone!!! Shocking!
Reply ID 7034
Nowhere in any of her posts does Belle defend the actions of these teenagers. That is to misrepresent her. She is simply trying to explain without passing judgement. The devil makes work for idle hands. As a result of failed parenting, some teenagers have never learnt the difference between right and wrong, and care even less. Perhaps having something to aspire to (other than being a hoodie gansta with an ASBO) might address the problem. Unfortunately, having deadbeat unskilled parents is never going to give you much of a start in life. If that's the sort of example that's passed down then it's hardly surpising that these wayward urchins create nothing but trouble.
Reply ID 7056
In my day, you respected elders and others - including their property. The ones who don't at a young age are generally the ones you still see hanging around town - jobless, educationless and poor in more ways than one. If there were more than 2 police officers around the town at any one time, things might be different. There are no excuses for thuggery, vandalism or rudeness - ever.
Reply ID 7067
i'm generally against corporal punishment... but if when i was a kid i'd behaved like this, my dad would've taught me manners the old fashioned way...
Reply ID 7073
I remember Bengeo Youth Club being disbanded, there was and still is Cubs/Brownies/Guides/Scouts. I went out on my bike, my brother played football in Hartham in Summer. I didn't watch TV I played games, board games and in the summer tried to lose my younger brother in the Wick Playing Fields in Bengeo.. damn he came back !!! But generally I didn't go to the cinema all the time (too expensive, not suitable to my age)and we did things. Yes, good parenting is/was involved, BUT fear of teachers/discipline also came into affect. Time to let teachers discipline and stop this nambey pamby marlarkey. There is no excuse to hang around town, you do things, these kids seem to all have bikes, expensive trainers and footballs, go play a game and get the aggression out on the pitch, not the town!
Reply ID 7095
I hope Belle has not been put off from adding more to the Forum.. we may not agree with what she has had to say but lets try to understand why she thinks there is nothing for youngsters to do in town and try to do something about it. Getting the Council to pull there finger out and approve the Skate Park in Hartam would be a start !!
Reply ID 7583
you all think that children should go home read and stop being who they are give them some thing to do to keep them occupied. Most parents these days don't have the time to home educat there children. BUILD A SKATE PARK A CINEMA SOMETHING PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!
Reply ID 7603
Very interesting. All I want to say is I work in a Pre-School (not in Hertford!) and we have some right little wotsits[}:)]but you only need look at the parent/carer and you can see why! More parenting classes I say!
Reply ID 7730
Just a point I'd like to make after reading this post. Belle, congratulations on your maturity and willingness to bring up a vailid point. Unfortunately some of the members of this forum that felt it necessary to launch an attack on your views. These people are what is known as "Daily mail reading, self rightous, ignorant cretins". Young people are not to be stereotyped and demonized. I am aware of the disgusting attack in Chicken express a couple of weeks back. Now next time I see a picture of an old guy on the front of the mercury for child molestation, would i then berate a pensioner crossig the road for being a "nonce"?
Reply ID 7731
quote:Bungle, i think you would be better off airing your views to Rod, jane and freddy.[:D]
Originally posted by bungle
Just a point I'd like to make after reading this post. Belle, congratulations on your maturity and willingness to bring up a vailid point. Unfortunately some of the members of this forum that felt it necessary to launch an attack on your views. These people are what is known as "Daily mail reading, self rightous, ignorant cretins". Young people are not to be stereotyped and demonized. I am aware of the disgusting attack in Chicken express a couple of weeks back. Now next time I see a picture of an old guy on the front of the mercury for child molestation, would i then berate a pensioner crossig the road for being a "nonce"?
Reply ID 7736
And are you not Stereotyping Daily Mail readers?? What about if you read the Mail, the Sun and the times? what does that make you?
Reply ID 7745
I don't like the way this thread is going. I didn't have a lot of things to do when I grew up in Bengeo in mid-late 70's BUT, the problem with todays IPOD generation is they haven't a clue what to do with spare time! I do agree they need places to go, but I didn't have a skate park for most of the time, just my bike and Hartham. When it was wet my friends and I went to each others houses, coloured in, painted, drew, bless I even played post offices !!! We dressed up in my mums old shoes and things, we had imagination, which kids today still have.. So please don't bring this discussion into throwing insults.. There is a problem with not enough leisure activity places for kids, BUT there is a lot they can do without them and sorry parents, my mum and dad were busy too but I didn't turn to vandalism...
Reply ID 7747
Apparently there is a great jump in the Castle Grounds!
Reply ID 7757
quote:Is that a rhetorical question Victor....? I would assume that any such poor confused individual would have to ask for a brown paper bag at the newsagents to smuggle their reading material back home in order to avoid ritual humiliation by passers by…. CP
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
And are you not Stereotyping Daily Mail readers?? What about if you read the Mail, the Sun and the times? what does that make you?
Reply ID 7761
Actually I read all of those, well bar the Sun, I just look at the pictures in that.
Reply ID 7766
quote:I agree... and part of the problem might have something to do with the fact that our generation is so concerned about keeping children occupied that kids don't know how to cope when entertainment and activities are not spoon fed to them. We have our children enrolled in so many extra curricular activities - when they are not taking part in those they have free access to plug-ins at home. In my opinion, it is healthy to let children get bored so that they learn how to occupy themselves. I wonder if these teenagers are the product of an over-organised lifestyle. Our children need to learn from an early age how to occupy themselves instead of blaming the world for not entertaining them.
I didn't have a lot of things to do when I grew up in Bengeo in mid-late 70's BUT, the problem with todays IPOD generation is they haven't a clue what to do with spare time! I do agree they need places to go, but I didn't have a skate park for most of the time, just my bike and Hartham. When it was wet my friends and I went to each others houses, coloured in, painted, drew, bless I even played post offices !!! We dressed up in my mums old shoes and things, we had imagination, which kids today still have..
Reply ID 7771
quote:I think they're more likely suffering from an un-orgainsed lifestyle without any discipline. The devil makes work for idle hands remember
I wonder if these teenagers are the product of an over-organised lifestyle. Our children need to learn from an early age how to occupy themselves instead of blaming the world for not entertaining them.
Reply ID 7772
The major difference between what we did to amuse ourselves in the 70's and now, is that the country was a safer place then. I can remember my father buying an airhorn to call me back from the woods when I was 7 years old!!!!! would anyone let a 7 year old roam woods now? I certainly would not.
Reply ID 7773
quote:This is my point - children need to be taught not to be idle.
I think they're more likely suffering from an un-orgainsed lifestyle without any discipline. The devil makes work for idle hands remember
Reply ID 7775
I also remember the local PC from Hertford Nick coming to Bengeo School and telling us not to talk to strangers and take sweets from them etc, etc. I think that the reporting of child abduction crimes have become more common place , not sure that the risk isn't any more than it was when I grew up, just its reported a lot more. You cannot wrap kids up in cotton wool, you have to teach them to look after themselves and I think we've got lazy. Its still no excuse to wantonly vandalise parts of your town or community cos you're bored. I am bored at work, does that mean I should graffiti the ladies loos???? I didn't and wasn't allowed in the woods when I was a kid, so no change there.. But as I said, it didn't stop me and my friends having fun and enjoying ourselves....
Reply ID 7779
Sorry Victor, why should i be writing to Rod, Jane and Freddy? Please elaborate. Are you implying I am too young or was that an attempt at humour?. If so, someones obviously been to the Bobby Davro school of humour. hah de har ha ha ha. I only like bald ones
Reply ID 7783
quote:Victor - I had you down as a Guardian man or at least Daily Star. Anyway back to Hertford matters... CP
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Actually I read all of those, well bar the Sun, I just look at the pictures in that.
Reply ID 7789
The same crimes took place 20-30-40 years ago, you just didnt hear about them. There are lots of things that happen now that are not talked about, but one day will. Kids need to be encouraged to use their imagination and make up their own fun just like i'm sure we all did. I was brought up during the rise of the gamesconsole - the first generation of gamesconsole users. The Atari ST etc, but I still wentout on my bike,explored forests, built camps, swam in rivers etc... how often do kids do these things nowadays? I'm not very good with names of different areas in Hertford, but I believe I was on Hartham common last Saturday, at the town centre end where the lock is there was a large group of kids jumping into the water and generally having a ball. At first I said to my other half something like 'look at tose kids messing about causing trouble' Now i'm not convinced that what they were doing was entirely safe, but having actually watched/listened for a minute it was clear that these kids were just having fun and causing no problems they were respectfull to the boats as they approached and to people crossing the bridge. I heard no bad language etc... Now compare that to what most large groups of kids get up to! My other half agreed with me, it was actually refrshing to see some teenagers having some fun not using computers, being sat at home or causing trouble. The same day there was another group of teenagers having a water fight, not once did they go near any other people and if someone came close they clearly took note and stopped while they passed. We saw two lads fishing, being very respectfull to their surroundings. I got chatting to someone on a narrow boat who was just passing through... sorry going off teenager track! My point is that day it was refreshing to see kids having fun being respectful and enjoying what nature has to offer and certainly showed me that there is still hope!
Reply ID 7791
Appologies for the awfull use of English, it has been a long day!
Reply ID 7792
Mike - don’t apologise. I wish I could have put it as well as you CP
Reply ID 7795
It sounds great - kids having good old fashioned fun. It is possible. We used to love kicking a ball aroung - Hartem is ideal. Playing Rounders even with a Tennis Racquet - you could hit the ball further that way. Maybe now it's sunny more kids will discover the joys of free fun [:)]
Reply ID 7803
There are photos to prove it! http://www.hertford.net/pictures/heatwave.asp
Reply ID 7812
Yep and if the Council ever get there fingers out and build a skate park we will see people having fun there to !!!
Reply ID 7838
I have purposely not commented on the skatepark issue as I dont feel my views will go down too well! So remain sat comfortably on the fence! The only negative comment I do have for last Saturday were the lads going roundon those mini motor bikes! Every time without fail as I began to doze off they would scream past me! Though no real harm done. I advise everyone to get down and seethe guys on their kite-surfer-buggy-things, they are incredible!
Reply ID 7839
Where were the kite surfers?
Reply ID 7840
hartham common I think i'm getting confused on area names, but if you look on the pics that Steve posted a link to, you will see the field with what I think is a cycle track lined out and I was on the field just over the bridge where the river is. Sorry long winded but hope you get the idea. I tried working it out on multimap but struggled!
Reply ID 7841
Excellent. I was in Gothenberg last year and there is a wonderful feeling when the weather is good. The parks are full and they are treated as the playground for the whole family. I went to Hartham on Sunday afternoon and it felt vey similar.
Reply ID 7842
Yes, I was amazed at how many different things were going on! On top of what I have already mentioned there was also remote control helicopter and aeroplane, these were the proper nitro deals very entertaining to watch. We had the stunt kite out! As you would expect on a day like that there were also a large array of boats going past, I was very surprised to see what looked like a speed boat at one point as well!
Reply ID 7850
Hartham Common is superb - I virtually lived down there when we had that hot summer a couple of years back. The wildlife you can see is incredible if you really look - I've seens otters, kingfishers and a grass snake down there, remarkable when you consider how busy it can get.
Reply ID 7861
Just been looking at the Fish in the River, could keep me occupied for hours if I didn't have to go back to the Office [V]
Reply ID 7872
It seems that teenagers are not responsible for all vandalism. I've just received an email survey from a very middle class clothing company asking me to select my hobbies from a list which included "Graffiti and Casual Vandalism"!
Reply ID 7875
quote:They are obviously targetting their their audience well![:D]
Originally posted by nora batty
It seems that teenagers are not responsible for all vandalism. I've just received an email survey from a very middle class clothing company asking me to select my hobbies from a list which included "Graffiti and Casual Vandalism"!
Reply ID 8169
Riding home from work on my bike last night and 3 kids wizzed passed swerving about and then skidding in the puddles, my first thoughts were brats, idiots, bloody kids! Then as I got to the road leading to Harham swimming pool I saw a car broken down in what looked like a foot of water, and pushing the car out of the water knee deep were the 3 kids! I think a lot of youngsters are very misunderstood, I felt quiet guilty by my original thoughts.[V]
Reply ID 8198
There has been a lessening of what we like to call anti-social behaviour on the streets of Folly Island on Friday nights. Some town centre residents have commented that things are a bit quieter there too. A few of us have a theory that what we have witnessed is the passing through of a certain generation and that the current group are not so agggressive/violent/over the top etc. Or, wait until tomorrow to see if things go back to normal. Noticing that I have also passed a certain age barrier ie 300 posts, I will celebrate same with a pint or two before anyone else tracks me down.
Reply ID 8317
Witnessing a girl vomit in the doorway of Thresher at about 8 pm yesterday was not a pleasent thing to do. She looked about 12 or 13 years old. Dressed up for a night at the Corn Exchange and incapable of walking. Incredibly she was on her way into Threshers when she realised she was going to be sick and had the presence of mind to turn around. The matter was mentioned to the door staff at the Corn Exchange who kindly went to see to her. When the Corn Exchange staff told us that they search the children on the way in to make sure the have no alcohol on them one of the lads in the queue pointed out that that's why they get tanked up very quickly before they go in.
Reply ID 8321
Point taken Ewoowar but err... I remember doing much the same about the same age and that would be about.. 34 years ago. It was a mixture of Makensons Stout & warm light ale. bought for us by the older boys and the girls joined in. And it was quite revolting. Simular thing about being searched for drink - you tanked up before or hid it at the back of the dance hall. Not saying that what you saw was good quite the reverse, as you say "not a pleasent thing to do", but it ain't a new thing. & I bet preceeding generations have simular stories. I suppose the question is - How worse is it now, really...?
Reply ID 8322
quote:Don't assume I was comparing what I saw to some misty eyed view of 'the good old days', I wasn't. And I'm not bleeting on about the woes of todays teenagers. I'm just relating what I saw.
Originally posted by Capitalist piglet
Point taken Ewoowar but err... I remember doing much the same about the same age and that would be about.. 34 years ago. It was a mixture of Makensons Stout & warm light ale. bought for us by the older boys and the girls joined in. And it was quite revolting. Simular thing about being searched for drink - you tanked up before or hid it at the back of the dance hall. Not saying that what you saw was good quite the reverse, as you say "not a pleasent thing to do", but it ain't a new thing. & I bet preceeding generations have simular stories. I suppose the question is - How worse is it now, really...?
Reply ID 8323
No assumptions made Ewoowar. Good to have a first hand and objective factual report for the forum.
Reply ID 8325
I wouldn't say the drinking thing is necessarily any worse these days but the violence and the kick people seem to get out of being destructive wasn't the same. I also think drugs are so much easier to get and cheaper now that the 2 put together are making it all very bad.
Reply ID 8332
quote:I'm not sure about the drugs thing. Agree that drugs were less then. We talk of the 60s & 70s as being drug fuelled but I didn’t know where to get them, had not even heard of them - at least not at age 12 – 15. Not the same now. But are drugs so much of a problem in Hertford (violence–wise). Most drug crime in towns/cities is all about people mugging to get their fix - I can't see that as being a problem here. Here speaks Mr Naivety methinks. You aren’t getting kids on Es causing trouble; they are too out of it (ditto puff etc), and crack (a problem elsewhere which can really cause off-the-cuff violence) well I’m not sure that’s a problem here either. Maybe I'm out of touch. I think the point about the kick of destruction is very valid - talking to a guy today who owns a lovely old Morris Moggie. It’s been keyed several times by kids for no apparent reason. I can’t understand the mentality of people who key expensive cars for Christ’s sake, but a lovingly kept Morris Minor…
Originally posted by smileyoriley
I wouldn't say the drinking thing is necessarily any worse these days but the violence and the kick people seem to get out of being destructive wasn't the same. I also think drugs are so much easier to get and cheaper now that the 2 put together are making it all very bad.
Reply ID 8334
true enough although how do you know that someone that appears drunk hasn't also been smoking something, taken speed or the like? Just because we don't see needles and drug paraphernalia all over the place doesn't mean to say the softer stuff isn't being mixed with the drink.
Reply ID 8335
I think it's rather disappointing that some people choose to assume the worst without any evidence.
Reply ID 8339
it's called knowing it happens - you don't need to see the paraphernalia to know of kids etc that do it
Reply ID 8341
With the recent scientific questions raised about the effect of cannabis on teenagers (for those who've missed it: their brains are not fully developed so cannabis use causes psychotic problems) does anyone think this is the cause of the violence and vandalism etc we see in the world today?
Reply ID 8342
I think suggesting Cannabis to be the source of violence/vandalism across the world is a bit over the top, though it is certainly widely smoked in and around Hertford. Just yesterday I cycled past a van on the dual carriage way going past the multistorey carpark and came out the other side high as a kite (ok exageration, but the passenger was blatant in what he was up to). I have walked past groups of kids smoking it in town etc... Personally I think its the least of our worries, thats not to say I think its a good idea but in my experience underage drinking etc... causes more harm than smoking does, most kids only try it now and again they are not mass users and it will do less harm than drinking will!
Reply ID 8345
Drugs in the main do not cause violence, as far as I'm aware there were not many hippy riots in the 60's! Ecstasy is not called Ecstasy/love drug for nothing, heroin you are completely out of it, as you are on acid and mushrooms and cocaine just makes you talk a load of gibberish. Unless of course, we have the misfortune to have a dealer selling Angel dust in Hertford, I think the main culprit is booze and peer pressure.
Reply ID 8347
We will have dealers for everything in Hertford, believe me! Cocaine and Heroin cause violence, Cocaine because it makes you feel invincible so inevitably lads taking it pick fights! and Heroin as generally the users need to steal money/goods to pay for the habit. (of course there are the high class users who have money, but these tend to turn in to the thief stereotype before too long)
Reply ID 8349
I didn't say drugs cause violence. Some of the most peaceful people i know are in a haze half the time. Please read my post in the way intended. Scientists are now saying that immature (ie. not fully developed) brains can be badly affected by cannabis and can lead to psychotic behaviour.
Reply ID 8351
Yes I watched the recent programme on the subject, while taking a pinch of salt I might add. Of course drugs are not good for you and of course taking huge amounts like the kids shown in the programme were is going to cause trouble. At the same time young alcoholics/young obese/young who dont look when they cross the road... are also heading for trouble and will also have long term damage. I can guess what the percentage difference is between the number of kids that do drugs/drink/are obese is.
Reply ID 8353
I'm inclined to say that the first scientist to say smoking tobacco causes cancer was laughed out of court also.
Reply ID 8354
I find it interesting that people are almost defending those that take drugs [;)]
Reply ID 8356
Hmmm, think i'm defending myself rather than drugs! My point is simply that tackling the issues of alcohlism and obesity in the young generations has got to come first as are clearly bigger issues for the majority. I would never condone drug taking, when I was younger I witnessed far too many friends go that way. But next time you are out and about look around what do you see? Over weight youngsters - certainly, underage drinking - probably, drug use - not so often. I do understand that drug use will not be seen as much as most users wont be blatant about it, but you cant argue about what the wider issues are. This doesn't change simply beacuse the national press has turned its attentions to underage drug taking does it? Lets be realistic for a moment.
Reply ID 8357
just an observation of the past few posts is all. No-one is saying other things aren't important, and we are being realistic, just making observations.
Reply ID 8361
Absolutely. Drugs/under age drinking/smoking are all part of the same thing. Personally i will always be grateful to the Biology teacher who showed a class of 13 yr olds a smokers lung. Nothing quite like seeing it in the flesh to put you off.
Reply ID 8392
I have only just taken the time to read all the comments on this particular stream. I am really glad that more balance has come into this. Reading some of the ealier posts on this forum, it sounds as if children and teenagers were little angels in the 70s. I grew up in the 50s and 60s in South London, there were gangs of young thugs, teenagers and younger who were constantly fighting and intimidating people in the area. My friend's mother had a brick thrown through her front door one day when she opened it. My friends and I were often intimidated by youths carrying knives. I will accept that it was a rougher area than Hertford (although there are rough areas in Hertford) but I haven't noticed people being any worse than they were when I was a child. Anyone remember the major punchups between the Mods and the Rockers in Brighton every year? Street brawling was quite common. I am not condoning anything, but I can't find my pair of rose-tinted spectacles to look at the past with. In fact lets look at the flip side of the coin. Exam results throughout the educational system are improving dramatically, do teenagers get praise for this? What we hear all the time is that this is because the exams have dumbed down and are a lot easier than they were in our day, maybe modular exams are easier, but I really do not think 'teenagers' are any more or less a cause for concern than they ever were.
Reply ID 8397
Its a bit sad we're all sort of blaming teenagers for our ills. Actually the blame lies with all of us adults. For not supporting teaching staff who should, in my opinion, be able to discipline much more severely children than they do, for not giving children rules/boundaries and a "too liberal" approach to life ie: if you do something you don't get punished and ourselves who "give in" to kids when they scream I want, I want for a new pair of trainers, IPod etc, etc. I know a lot of teenagers through local drama groups. Most are great, well rounded and lovely helpful, respectful kids, those that aren't don't get to stay in the group. But we must take the blame. I think we need to have a hard look at what we expect from teenagers and kids and is it any wonder if they get away with murder. They learn from us. We have to be able to keep discipline and I don't mean beating them with sticks in case you wonder. There are other ways and more effective ways....
Reply ID 8411
I have read this post from start to finish and wanted to share my own personal view. Belle initially proposed that perhaps if there was something to do for youngsters they wouldn’t “end up hanging about” Hertford. She also commented that “some people in her sister’s class get bored so they vandalize things”. She didn’t condone this; she didn’t say it was the definitive cause of vandalism or that every bored teenager does this but just an observation from her younger sister’s class. Responses varied but mostly ranged from (somewhat) insulting to “well I’ve heard everything now and in my day we chased hoops down the dusty cobbles with sticks”. She was offering her opinion and experiences on the causes of teenagers being anti-social. An opinion I suggest is far far closer to ‘the action’ than 99% of the people posting about teenagers here (I would propose that the majority of the posters here could not count on their fingers the number of years that have passed since they were teenagers). I think it was a shame that a new poster (a fairly rare occurrence here) and a teenager (even rarer) tries to address issues that *you* talk about regularly that represent *her* age group and she met with derision from many people. Shame she never came back it would have been nice to add to new minority voices here. To be frank I think comments like “in my day…” rather pointless reminisces rather than offering a solution. Things change at such a rapid pace it seems pointless to bring up what you did in your childhood as a pointer to what kids should be doing now. I’m sure there are parents of people here that are amazed that we take a mobile phones everywhere whilst in *their* day they managed without such a device or email. In my parents day they were married with kids and a house by 25. Pointing this out to a 25 year old now is for what purpose? It is irrelevant in today’s world. I think access to information has made this ‘teenager problem’ seem more of a problem now than it ever has been. All the problems people talk about now have existed for as long as kids have felt misunderstood by adults and as long as adults have regarded kids as going astray. The difference is now strangers on a forum can relate stories making it seem very commonplace, tabloids understand that their readers like to read these stories with the ‘back in my day’ commentary and government has realised that it’s a potential vote winner if they concentrate on it. Do you think say African famine/genocide/debt is a new thing of the last 15-20 years? Where was it reported in ‘your day’? It wasn’t. Obviously, if it wasn’t reported as much, discussed on forums or made the Daily Mail double spread then it didn’t happen as much right? All these problems are worse now then they were then? Is the world really a far more unfair/scarier place? I got drunk till I was sick as a kid (13 was my first time in the park on Gold Label and I then went on to the local disco). I vandalised Tesco car park (can’t even remember why, police caution at 15). Education was for losers. I hated the police. Being seen with my parents or any older person was just the ultimate in embarrassment. Now, I avoid the park and frequent pubs (rarely sick I hasten to add and never ever Gold Label). I collect points at Tesco’s rather than deface their walls. I am degree educated. Three of my best friends are in the police. I’m off to visit my parents this weekend (although they fact the live in the Med. is a genuine pull). I’m sure if you all search back in your pasts you can easily recount stories that if posted here as a recent witnessed events would only add credence to the teenagers are bad theme (I would genuinely be interest to know the mischief many of you got up to as teenagers and you would see how its not a new phenomenon and people generally turn out ok in the end). The synopsis of this overly long post is that kids will always seem like demons to adults as they just don’t see where the other is coming from. The majority of kids will straighten themselves out. Societies fabric is not improving to any great degree nor is it worsening – it just gets more social commentary. Why don’t we offer solutions? The kids in general seem to say they are (justifiably or not) bored why are we not discussing what we can give them? Lengthy Essay Mode: [Off]
Reply ID 8412
Anyone still awake??[8D]
Reply ID 8414
I lost it somewhere after the second paragraph. I think we're talking about teenagers... but we've turned a hard left to world issues and bypassed the British Lions tour along the way!!!
Reply ID 8416
Do you think say African famine/genocide/debt is a new thing of the last 15-20 years? Where was it reported in ‘your day’? It wasn’t. Obviously, if it wasn’t reported as much, discussed on forums or made the Daily Mail double spread then it didn’t happen as much right? All these problems are worse now then they were then? Is the world really a far more unfair/scarier place Wasnt the Cambodian famine of the late 70s reported on a big scale in "our day"? I’m sure if you all search back in your pasts you can easily recount stories that if posted here as a recent witnessed events would only add credence to the teenagers are bad theme (I would genuinely be interest to know the mischief many of you got up to as teenagers and you would see how its not a new phenomenon and people generally turn out ok in the end). Sure kids broke windows and had fights, but I cannot ever remember a gang of youths kicking a man half to death in Hertford in "Our Day" Times have changed, people have moved on and now younger people are committing more serious crimes. Yes, newspapers do like to sensationalise things, but they do happen and they have happened in Hertford. In this town in the 60's 70's and 80's kids did not commit the serious crimes that they do now. The town was close knit enough then to know if they did, without the use of the internet or national press articles. This post may have moved away from the initial topic, but the fact of the matter is that the majority of people on here have lived in Hertford for many years, they have all seen the Town change thoughout their lives and are not happy with the violent way that it is going. Unfortunatly, this violence tends to be between teenagers. Yes there should be some provisions made to keep them occupied, but would that really stop them all wanting to get boozy?? I doubt I would have stopped me (Sloopy Joes from the age of 16) but then again, my mates and I would not have kicked the hell out of 1 person "in my day".
Reply ID 8418
and I can (just about) still count on all my fingers back to when I was a teenager thank you very much [;)][:D]
Reply ID 8419
It seemed fairly clear what I was trying to say (then again I did write it). I don’t think it turned “hard left in to world issues” it was couple of sentences that was used to illustrate an example To simplify for those afraid it’s getting too much world issues and not enough Am Dram. Things that are reported frequently now in the media – shall we say African problems as an example? Did not get so much media attention say 25 years ago. I’m not saying it never got reported (e.g. Cambodia) it’s just has a far bigger focus for media these day than it has been in the past. My conclusion on this that was people think it is a far more prevalent problem than it was earlier on because they see it more on TV than they did previously. The beating up incident is horrid. It’s a rare occasion. The past 6 pages of post in *this* subject (to which I replied) were not about seeing kids all the time beating people up but actually about drunkenness, vandalism, rudeness, and the like and so my comment that the majority of us all did this stuff is a valid one.
Reply ID 8420
Oh and I know Cambodia isn’t in Africa but you get the general gist [:)]
Reply ID 8421
but it's not a rare occasion - it's happening way too often
Reply ID 8422
Please give more examples of people often being kicked half to death in Hertford by teenagers.
Reply ID 8423
quote:I think now that maybe you are being flippant. The said incident is the tip of the iceberg. This is a site for people to air their views, yours seem to be different to the majority on this topic, fair enough, but mud slinging at Drama Queen is a bit off. Perhaps you are trying too hard to defend your past????
Originally posted by Avarice
Please give more examples of people often being kicked half to death in Hertford by teenagers.
Reply ID 8424
quote:What about Ethiopia, that famine lasted from 1970 until 1985 is in Africa and was heavily reported on. You may now have to change your quote to the last 35 years!
Originally posted by Avarice
Oh and I know Cambodia isn’t in Africa but you get the general gist [:)]
Reply ID 8425
To address your points: 1) I was not being flippant. My comment was that the beating incident was rare. To which the reply came “but it's not a rare occasion - it's happening way too often”. I admit I doubt this is true and so asked for evidence. 2) I did air my view, and rightly or wrongly spent some time explaining. I am obviously not a regular poster and was immediately greeted to my post with: “Anyone still awake??” cool smiley face with sun glasses stops this being a rude/flippant comment I’m assuming? And “I lost it somewhere after the second paragraph. I think we're talking about teenagers... but we've turned a hard left to world issues and bypassed the British Lions tour along the way!!!” …and no smiley!! And now posting is my way of defending my past – very Freudian.
Reply ID 8426
Point taken, I guess my comment was a little sarcastic but not flippant. Also I was refering to the "Am Dram" comment. Enough said on this bored now. Going to the pub to get drunk!
Reply ID 8427
The post isn’t actually about third world famine. That was an example of something used a lot in the TV now and less so in the past (yes it got press but not to the same extent). To clarify: Today, many people could reel off numerous at risk 3rd world type countries and numerous despots. Previously, the majority of people could have only named a handful. My point was that naming only a few (yes, lets say Cambodia/Ethiopia) does this mean these were they only two countries experiencing problems? Relating this example to this forum i.e. seeing lots of news about horrid teenagers does not mean its any worse than previously. Anyhoo, that has seriously upped my post quota...
Reply ID 8428
Hmmm, how have I missed this! Avarice you have some fair points, granted. For the record I was a teenager 4 years ago! and have been an active poster on here speaking from knowledge not memorys as such.
Reply ID 8431
I expect I am not being categorised as part of the 'good old days' clan. As I said before, "Don't assume I was comparing what I saw to some misty eyed view of 'the good old days', I wasn't. And I'm not bleeting on about the woes of todays teenagers. I'm just relating what I saw." However, as I also said, consultation is crucial. I am not well placed to provide facilities for teenagers as I have not been one for quite some time. We cannot simply give teenagers what we think they want. We have to listen to them and understand their needs. And then teenagers have to be realistic and understand limitations. What opportunity do the youth of Hertford have to influence the decision makers? I am not saying this does not exist but having lived in hertford for 11 years I have not heard of such (this may be because I am too old!). What I mean is ensure the opportunites exist for young people to air their voices and then make sure they are listened to and understood. Engage the youth and make them part of the decision making. Having said that, people have every right to recall their teenage years in this thread. After all it's their own point of reference. What would you prefer, have them ignore those years.
Reply ID 8434
the violence is not a rare incident - I'm sure people have seen the news recently - 3 seperate men in seperate attacks have been killed in similar attacks, no not in Hertford but very similar situations.
Reply ID 8436
This is bizaar. There seems to be a range of opinions from depressing views of teenagers in the present, to totally incredible views about news coverage of events in the past, true t.v. wasn't as widely watched, but newspapers were very widely read. Of course people knew about famine in the 60s, of course it was reported in the media. I would say in the 60s, students were highly political, demonstrations were common. The 60s were quite revolutionary times. Things went quieter in the 80s, in Thatcher's era, when money was the prime motivator. I am sure if we were all being honest here, we would probably have to admit that some teenagers were complete s***s in the 60s, and some teenagers are complete s***s now, and I am sure that if this were in some way quantified, the proportion of s***s to caring, well meaning teenagers would be roughly the same.
Reply ID 8442
And from Today's "Times"... "Police in Hertfordshire are appealing for witnesses after a 32-year-old man was beaten to death in Stevenage on Friday night. A 32-year-old man and a 15-year-old, both from Stevenage, have been arrested." ... also reported on the BBC ... Teenager held in murder inquiry http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/4649693.stm It appears that whilst the vast majority of teenagers are no different from 20, 30 or 50 years ago, there is a new breed of high profile, dangerous, feral youths who can rely on their parents for not just moral, but physical support.
Reply ID 8443
Hi! What ever happened to youth clubs, sporting clubs, scouting, TA (Territory Army), train spotting, swimming, fishing etc.It seems to me these teenagers are not going anywhere because they haven't looked in the right place and have no direction. Life doesn't focus around drugs, sex and rock & roll, violence included. Get a life, and don't waste it on other people.[8D]
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
And from Today's "Times"... "Police in Hertfordshire are appealing for witnesses after a 32-year-old man was beaten to death in Stevenage on Friday night. A 32-year-old man and a 15-year-old, both from Stevenage, have been arrested." ... also reported on the BBC ... Teenager held in murder inquiry http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/4649693.stm It appears that whilst the vast majority of teenagers are no different from 20, 30 or 50 years ago, there is a new breed of high profile, dangerous, feral youths who can rely on their parents for not just moral, but physical support.
Reply ID 8444
hear hear
Reply ID 8445
Doc, those clubs have almost disapeared, as the volenteers who run the places have to undergo stringent vetting by the authourities. If and when they do get the go-ahead, they have the constant worry that they are going to be sued by the parents, because little Johnny has broken his ankle jumping off of the roof. This would also explain the lack of interest that teachers have in supervising after school activities.
Reply ID 8446
Maybe the subject of this topic should be "Parents!" seeing as many of these problems are often created not only by a minority of teenagers but also violent or risk-averse parents.
Reply ID 8448
Just been catching up on all the posts since my last one. Its amazing how sometimes people get "personal". Good thing I like sticking to the thread and not side stepping things.. Although I can side step and shuffle pull change with the best of them !!! (See Am dram comment Mr Avarice!) I think all our comments can be summarised as follows: 1) Some parents are responsible for the bad behaviour of their kids 2) Schools lack discipline to properly punish bad/persistent behaviour 3) Not all kids/teenagers are horrid or criminals intent on beating people up 4) I think we all like kids and 5) I think there are things to do (I note scouts/guides/TA/Am dram etc, etc) and also WE the public/Council could do more too. There.. that's this stream sorted.. Can we discuss the composition of black puddings now??? [:D]
Reply ID 8457
If we can help the majority of youth with guidance and multiple choices in our society, then teenagers will develop into responsible caring adults for the next generation, to live in a safer and acceptable society. Schemes exist for volunteer mentors to give them a chance in life. As a parent, no matter what your children do, never give up trying to help them through their adolescence, because they will thank you for it in the end, (when they can stand on their own 2 feet and discover the World around them), knowing that you were there when it counted. My kids are now adult and are still ringing me up for advise or a chat, exchanging ideas from time to time.[;)] Connections Hertfordshire sounds like a good service for 13 – 19 year olds. Worth a try Phone: (080) 800 132109, Text: (07766) 413 219, Email/webchat: http://www.connextions-direct.com Worth a try.
Reply ID 8459
Lets get them all training for the 2012 Olympics!!! Is this relevent?
Reply ID 8518
It does make me laugh when some people try to blame the media or the paraniod mind! Can I ask those who defend the youth as a whole, how many people did you beat up in your youth, and how many people were murdered in your local area?
Reply ID 8736
just heard a rumor that the kids that beat that guy nearly to death in the chicken shop are going through the courts and are possibily looking at community punishment!!! one day a week picking litter!!! thats why kids think they can do what ever they like cause they get away with it.[:(!][V][:(] Gini
Reply ID 8737
and not just by the legal system either. Not that I'm condoning it, but when I was a young 'un (only 10 years ago to my teens) I would have got a good hiding for putting a foot wrong so I didn't dare! These days the kids can sue their own parents - I know there can be a fine line but still............
Reply ID 8738
i agree as a kid i wasnt that bothered about the police but i was bothered about the fact they would tell my mum and i would be in for it!! what teaches you wrong from right is being told off for being wrong and getting an appropriate punihment. with the law seeming to support the offenders and not the victims it puts you off having children in this kind of society. Gini
Reply ID 14612
Continuing from the Hello Mum, We're Yobs post ([url="http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=1243"]here[/url]), I am a 13 year old GIRL. Sorry if I didn't make it particularly clear before. So playing football would not be an option. There really is nothing for teenagers in Hertford. The only youth groups are run by churches and if you're not religious then they're not applicable. I go to a scout group and a drama class on weekend evenings and I go to music school on Saturday mornings but there is nothing to do other than that at the weekend. It's too expensive for us to go to cinemas every weekend and our parents get fed up of giving us lifts to stevenage and hatfield. The buses are terrible, as are the trains. So, what are young people meant to do?
Reply ID 14616
Please continue this discussion [url="http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=1246"]here[/url]