Topic ID 805
There is a move to set up a Lower Bengeo Residents' Association, mainly to tackle the rat run issue. Letters will be going out to all residents in the next week. It seems (from reading comments on thread http://www.hertford.net/yoursay1/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=267&SearchTerms=residents,associations) that a Residents' Association may have more clout than the previous collectives. Are there any other Residents' Associations in Hertford that have made a significant impact on their community?
Reply ID 8898
Interesting - where did you find out about this, Nora? And any ideas what they define as "Lower Bengeo"? Looking forward to hearing more about this development...
Reply ID 8901
A friend of mine lives on Byde Street and she stopped me this morning to ask if I would distribute some letters in my street. She also asked if I thought the headteacher of Mill Mead School would support them - I think she would as she used to live on Nelson Street and at least 5 of the school's teachers and teaching assistants live in Lower Bengeo. I havn't seen the letter yet and didn't have time for a long discussion, so I don't know what the boundaries are.
Reply ID 8903
Sounds great, but as you live on "public highways" and annoying as motorists are, they/we all have a right if we've paid our Road Tax to drive on them! If you only have certain times of day when all road users can use the "rat run" maybe it would help. But I think it will just push to problem to your neighbours and of course, as we all pay road tax we have a right to drive on the Queen's highways. Its hard. I know how horrid it is at rush hours, maybe a compromise like this would work, its got to be worth a try and see if between 7 am and 9 am and 4.30 pm and 7.00pm residents only.. its a thought I guess
Reply ID 8905
Nora - here is a list of residents associations but I'm not sure how up to date it is. http://www.herts-essex-news.co.uk/communityguide/residents.lpf I guess the Molewood Road one would want to join lower Bengeo? To answer your question about impact on the community, in the late 1980s I used to live near Hertford East and the Kingsmead Residents Association were tremendously active in promoting improvements in the community - a voluntary nursery, speed limits and road layout changes and a friendship club for OAPs are just some of the initiatives I remember. They had representatives on various council committes and were generally vocal in speaking up for all of us who lived along the Ware Road. Maybe other forum contributors who live over that end of Hertford could give more up to date info?
Reply ID 8906
DQ - The rat-run topic is as old as Methusalah's first car, and it's on another thread so I won't get drawn into a discussion about it here. I'm more interested in whether a Residents' Association will carry more weight than the efforts that have gone before. Plus, I am quite keen on a Residents' Association for other reasons.
Reply ID 8907
quote:Thanks, Rachel, that's exactly the stuff I was after. I have found the National Organisation of Residents' Associations website, too, and am amused that it's NORA!!!
Originally posted by Rachel
Nora - here is a list of residents associations but I'm not sure how up to date it is. http://www.herts-essex-news.co.uk/communityguide/residents.lpf I guess the Molewood Road one would want to join lower Bengeo? To answer your question about impact on the community, in the late 1980s I used to live near Hertford East and the Kingsmead Residents Association were tremendously active in promoting improvements in the community - a voluntary nursery, speed limits and road layout changes and a friendship club for OAPs are just some of the initiatives I remember. They had representatives on various council committes and were generally vocal in speaking up for all of us who lived along the Ware Road. Maybe other forum contributors who live over that end of Hertford could give more up to date info?
Reply ID 8908
Dear Nora.. Well Molewood, of which I am a member is a bit in crisis, the usual problem of not enough support from community and time constraints. A few years back Molewood did, I believe, ask at their monthly meeting if joining with Lower Bengeo was a starter and it was decided no, as the needs/different problems were not compatible and issues important to one part of Bengeo not relevant to the other and vice versa. I wish you luck in your endeavours, I think a lot of people say they are willing to do things and then realising the time and effort involved realise its not possible. I hope you prove me wrong....
Reply ID 8910
I've just been given the letters ref: proposed Lower Bengeo Residents Association. The main catalyst appears to be the recent hit and run incident on Byde Street. There is to be an initial meeting on Tuesday 13th September in the Scout Hut, Port Vale and the boundaries for the Association appear to be from Molewood Rd up to Church Rd, Duncombe Rd, Farquhar St, and Cross Rd. They will be re-introducing the yellow stickers in the next month.
Reply ID 8912
Yellow stickers [?]
Reply ID 8913
Yes... http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=591&whichpage=1
Reply ID 8915
What about the people of Millmead way? We have to suffer the constant flow of traffic along Beane road (especially at the moment)The People from the funny church blocking 100 meters of one side of the road several times a week. Should we have to drive all the way though Hertford for the sake of 50 yards?? I wanna yellow sticker![}:)]
Reply ID 8916
Start a Residents' Association then... here's one to bee going on with[:)]x
Reply ID 8917
quote:I would have thought Millmead Way should be included, especially as it's inside the "restricted" zone for the rat-run.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
What about the people of Millmead way? We have to suffer the constant flow of traffic along Beane road (especially at the moment)The People from the funny church blocking 100 meters of one side of the road several times a week. Should we have to drive all the way though Hertford for the sake of 50 yards?? I wanna yellow sticker![}:)]
Reply ID 8918
Is it? [?] I thought the restriction started at the junction of Beane Road and Molewood Road/Port Vale. I'm not on the organising committee, but i would have thought that Mill Mead Way residents turning up to the meeting would be able to lobby for inclusion. As it is to be a Residents Association and not an Anti-rat-run campaign group, the natural boundaries would not include Mill Mead Way.
Reply ID 8919
Have just been talking to Herts Highways about the single yellow lines that they will be painting on Warren Park Road in the next few weeks. This was in direct response to residents' complaints about Duncombe School parents blocking the street, so people power obviously does work. I suppose this means the parents will now park on Cross Road, Duncombe Road and Farquhar Street, as they do when it's Sports Day etc.
Reply ID 8921
quote:Poor deluded nora. People power - yellow stickers, meetings etc, the bible bashers in 10a Byde Street - got the council to put up the No Entry except for access signs at the end of Beane Road, Cross Road, Tower Street etc. junctions, in an effort to stop the rat run originally. People just ignore it because it's not policed. And I'm sure the parents will ignore the yellow lines in Warren Park Road. Still, I'm all for a resident's association, as it goes. Looking forward to the odd clash with DQ and the Molewood Residents Association about access rights, speed bumps, parking, yellow lines, street parties, bbqs, fireworks, bonfires, neighbourhood watch schemes etc.[:D]
Originally posted by nora batty
Have just been talking to Herts Highways about the single yellow lines that they will be painting on Warren Park Road in the next few weeks. This was in direct response to residents' complaints about Duncombe School parents blocking the street, so people power obviously does work. I suppose this means the parents will now park on Cross Road, Duncombe Road and Farquhar Street, as they do when it's Sports Day etc.
Reply ID 8924
Norah, as an ex-chairman of Folly Island Association and in line with the ex before me, the question you ask yourself is ... why have i been bashing my head against a brick wall for the last 'n' years. On the plus side, we get roads swept every five weeks, trees get pruned and lights get cleaned.On the minus side almost 30 years of consultation and the parking zone is still not quite what everyone thought we were going to get. However, a properly formed residents association in your neck of the woods would allow you as a representative body to contribute to the Hertford Transport Forum, headed by the bit of Highways that is repsonsible for the yellow lines. So when Bengeo comes up on the egenda you can fight your own corner. And ... especially in view of the new licensing legislation it does give residents a much bigger voice in regards to the renewal and application for liquor and entertainment licenses. Foly Island was always consulted over the Prince Regent and then Stonehouse applications - you win some, you lose some. However, the emphasis has changed slghtly. A few notes and I think I may have expanded all this on the original thread you mentioned. And if anyone knows what happended to the Town Centre Residents Association?
Reply ID 8925
quote:An interesting point, Victor. But the rat run, the restrictions and the congestion on Byde Street were there before Millmead Way. It would seem logical that the new residents on Millmead Way have added to the problems.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
What about the people of Millmead way? We have to suffer the constant flow of traffic along Beane road (especially at the moment)The People from the funny church blocking 100 meters of one side of the road several times a week. Should we have to drive all the way though Hertford for the sake of 50 yards?? I wanna yellow sticker![}:)]
Reply ID 8926
quote:I'm pretty sure the "access only" signs are at the Hertford North end of Beane Road. Could be wrong - perhaps someone could confirm next time they head along that way. I agree about the need for any association to involve itself in all relevant issues and avoid being hijacked entirely by the anti rat-run campaign.
Originally posted by nora batty
Is it? [?] I thought the restriction started at the junction of Beane Road and Molewood Road/Port Vale. I'm not on the organising committee, but i would have thought that Mill Mead Way residents turning up to the meeting would be able to lobby for inclusion. As it is to be a Residents Association and not an Anti-rat-run campaign group, the natural boundaries would not include Mill Mead Way.
Reply ID 8927
quote:We were talking about that only yesterday - If anyone knows, please tell us all. We left the EMail addresses etc. Had no word since.
Originally posted by sloopjohnb
Norah, as an ex-chairman of Folly Island Association and in line with the ex before me, the question you ask yourself is ... why have i been bashing my head against a brick wall for the last 'n' years. On the plus side, we get roads swept every five weeks, trees get pruned and lights get cleaned.On the minus side almost 30 years of consultation and the parking zone is still not quite what everyone thought we were going to get. However, a properly formed residents association in your neck of the woods would allow you as a representative body to contribute to the Hertford Transport Forum, headed by the bit of Highways that is repsonsible for the yellow lines. So when Bengeo comes up on the egenda you can fight your own corner. And ... especially in view of the new licensing legislation it does give residents a much bigger voice in regards to the renewal and application for liquor and entertainment licenses. Foly Island was always consulted over the Prince Regent and then Stonehouse applications - you win some, you lose some. However, the emphasis has changed slghtly. A few notes and I think I may have expanded all this on the original thread you mentioned. And if anyone knows what happended to the Town Centre Residents Association?
Reply ID 8928
quote:How rude. Exactly why are you for a residents association - to give you another audience to publicly insult and deride? Why don't you start an association of squat, ugly, warty people who live under bridges, troll.
Originally posted by 2929paul Poor deluded nora. People power - yellow stickers, meetings etc, the bible bashers in 10a Byde Street - got the council to put up the No Entry except for access signs at the end of Beane Road, Cross Road, Tower Street etc. junctions, in an effort to stop the rat run originally. People just ignore it because it's not policed. And I'm sure the parents will ignore the yellow lines in Warren Park Road. Still, I'm all for a resident's association, as it goes. Looking forward to the odd clash with DQ and the Molewood Residents Association about access rights, speed bumps, parking, yellow lines, street parties, bbqs, fireworks, bonfires, neighbourhood watch schemes etc.[:D]
Reply ID 8929
quote:So I guess if a family that lives on Byde St has a 17 year old son/daughter that passes her driving test they will add to the problem as well??? You may have noticed we live in the are too and use the localities such as the Millstream, the Co-op and regually take walks around lower Bengeo, which you all choose to park your cars on the pavements causing me to have to push my son in his pram in the road. So if you want to point the finger at people who live in the area that add to the problems, look at the way that some of the idiots park their cars.
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:An interesting point, Victor. But the rat run, the restrictions and the congestion on Byde Street were there before Millmead Way. It would seem logical that the new residents on Millmead Way have added to the problems.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
What about the people of Millmead way? We have to suffer the constant flow of traffic along Beane road (especially at the moment)The People from the funny church blocking 100 meters of one side of the road several times a week. Should we have to drive all the way though Hertford for the sake of 50 yards?? I wanna yellow sticker![}:)]
Reply ID 8930
what about the rest of bengeo?? I live just outside the lower bengeo "catchment" area, so wouldn't be included in this residents association, but we too have many problems - the coop, the bengeo club, the traffic, the parking to name but a few.. these associations are seeming to be a bit exclusive - does every street need one??! surely a Bengeo residents association would be more weighty, and this could feed into the Hertford residents association as necessary... or am i just living in a dream world??
Reply ID 8931
It seems this has been considered before, Bengeobabe. As I have said, I am not on the organising committee but I think if you turned up to the meeting and put a good case for joining, it would be accepted.
quote:
Originally posted by Drama Queen
Dear Nora.. Well Molewood, of which I am a member is a bit in crisis, the usual problem of not enough support from community and time constraints. A few years back Molewood did, I believe, ask at their monthly meeting if joining with Lower Bengeo was a starter and it was decided no, as the needs/different problems were not compatible and issues important to one part of Bengeo not relevant to the other and vice versa. I wish you luck in your endeavours, I think a lot of people say they are willing to do things and then realising the time and effort involved realise its not possible. I hope you prove me wrong....
Reply ID 8932
quote:Not me, I don't live in Lower Bengeo. But yes, I have to say that if the residents of Millmead Way are included in the restriction area and are free to travel north through to Port Hill without restriction then they must add to the traffic. Errr.....it's not complicated, more cars=more congestion. And it's not just a case of a 17 year old passing a driving test, it's a whole estate full of car drivers. Personally I have no problem with you having yellow stickers. I think it's a great idea but it's a shame it has to come to that simply because the through route restriction cannot be enforced. I would hate to be one of the residents impacted daily by the problem.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrewquote:So I guess if a family that lives on Byde St has a 17 year old son/daughter that passes her driving test they will add to the problem as well??? You may have noticed we live in the are too and use the localities such as the Millstream, the Co-op and regually take walks around lower Bengeo, which you all choose to park your cars on the pavements causing me to have to push my son in his pram in the road. So if you want to point the finger at people who live in the area that add to the problems, look at the way that some of the idiots park their cars.
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:An interesting point, Victor. But the rat run, the restrictions and the congestion on Byde Street were there before Millmead Way. It would seem logical that the new residents on Millmead Way have added to the problems.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
What about the people of Millmead way? We have to suffer the constant flow of traffic along Beane road (especially at the moment)The People from the funny church blocking 100 meters of one side of the road several times a week. Should we have to drive all the way though Hertford for the sake of 50 yards?? I wanna yellow sticker![}:)]
Reply ID 8934
How rude. Exactly why are you for a residents association - to give you another audience to publicly insult and deride? Why don't you start an association of squat, ugly, warty people who live under bridges, troll. [/quote] Refer to sloopjohnb's entry for why a resident's association is positive. Unfortunately, experience shows that the general public ignore the good intentions of the residents and ride rough shod over anything positive that comes out of it i.e. rat runners still rat run even though the road signs clearly say there is no entry allowed except for access. They then hide behind the "Queen's Highway" and "public roads" and "I pay my tax as much as you do" arguments and charge around residential streets with no regard for anyone else. It's not right but it still happens. I've become cynical in my old age. Anyway, sorry for the insult and you've obviously worked out who I am, given the remarkably accurate description you provide.[:)]
Reply ID 8940
think you are missing the point. Millmead Way is affected indirectly by the rat run. As I have said before it is a nightmare turning on to Beane road in the morning rush hour, and can take up to 5 mins to drive 200 yards. Please do not insult my intelligence, obviously a new estate will = more cars on the road, however my car has always been on the road in Hertford, so has my wife's and several other families who have chosen to move from other areas in Hertford to Millmead way. If you do not live in Lower Bengeo you should not have any problem with the Rat Run or the amount of new cars Millmead Way has introduced on to the road. Unless of course you are one of the people that instead of using Port Hill choose the rat run. Now that would be slightly hypocritical.
Reply ID 8950
quote:I sincerely sympathise, but wasn't the traffic problem there before Millmead Way? And if you have lived in Hertford before moving to Millmead Way were you not aware of the problem beforehand? I understand your point completely and would probably try to change things, like you, if I was in your position. And I was not insulting your intelligence deliberately. I merely pointed out some facts that your argument appeared not to acknowledge and that had not been made before on this thread. By the way, I live in Hertford next to a farm. Occasionally the farmer spreads muck on the field and it smells. I aticipated this before I bought the house and have not started a campaign to have it stopped. Furthermore I AM affected by the traffic in the 'rat run'. I have to use the road daily to access my sons school, my sons childminder uses an address in the area, I have several friends in the area......
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
think you are missing the point. Millmead Way is affected indirectly by the rat run. As I have said before it is a nightmare turning on to Beane road in the morning rush hour, and can take up to 5 mins to drive 200 yards. Please do not insult my intelligence, obviously a new estate will = more cars on the road, however my car has always been on the road in Hertford, so has my wife's and several other families who have chosen to move from other areas in Hertford to Millmead way. If you do not live in Lower Bengeo you should not have any problem with the Rat Run or the amount of new cars Millmead Way has introduced on to the road. Unless of course you are one of the people that instead of using Port Hill choose the rat run. Now that would be slightly hypocritical.
Reply ID 8952
You are a possible cause of the traffic on the Rat Run, it is not essential that you drive through Bengeo to get to your sons school. Your Child minder may be another matter depending on location. Actually my gripe with the traffic is the increased flow since the closure of lane on the A10. No I was not totally aware of the problem, as before I moved, I very rarely ventured into Lower Bengeo, especially during rush hour. If its only the Farmers muck you have to put up with, you should count yourself lucky.
Reply ID 8954
This topic was supposed to be more about the formation of a Residents' Association, not the rat-run. That appears elsewhere on the Forum. I think, reading my letter, that the Residents' Association is not concerned so much about stopping the rat-runners but with improving the safety of the roads now that there is an increase in the volume traffic. Many drivers get frustrated because they are not able to drive straight through the back of Bengeo without stopping. The frustration causes drivers to mount pavements, bash wing mirrors, drive very fast through the clear patches, scrape walls and yes, knock over pedestrians. The most obvious reaction is to try and stop rat-runners but a more pragmatic approach is to protect pedestrians, protect residents' property and maintain a peaceful environment by slowing the traffic all the way through and creating safer footpaths with the use of pinch points, bollards etc. The knock-on effect may be that people using it as a short-cut find it is no longer quicker, and stop using it. As I've said before, the yellow stickers worked because they improved courtesy among residents and enabled residents to identify alien traffic. There's nothing better than driving at 20mph through the back of Bengeo - stopping politely to allow every neighbour to pass easily - with a fuming alien rat behind you!
Reply ID 8976
quote:I think I agreed with everything you are saying here when I commented in the rat run thread, whenever that was. My suggestion at the time was congestion charging zone, residents only parking somewhere nearby (to get cars off the pavement and make it easier for pedestrians), plus I like the idea of a 20mph zone. The yellow stickers were a simple but effective idea and meant I knew if I was justified in having a go at someone driving illegally through Bengeo. I think I'll go and sit under a bridge and jump on any cars that aren't displaying a yellow sticker.
Originally posted by nora batty
This topic was supposed to be more about the formation of a Residents' Association, not the rat-run. That appears elsewhere on the Forum. I think, reading my letter, that the Residents' Association is not concerned so much about stopping the rat-runners but with improving the safety of the roads now that there is an increase in the volume traffic. Many drivers get frustrated because they are not able to drive straight through the back of Bengeo without stopping. The frustration causes drivers to mount pavements, bash wing mirrors, drive very fast through the clear patches, scrape walls and yes, knock over pedestrians. The most obvious reaction is to try and stop rat-runners but a more pragmatic approach is to protect pedestrians, protect residents' property and maintain a peaceful environment by slowing the traffic all the way through and creating safer footpaths with the use of pinch points, bollards etc. The knock-on effect may be that people using it as a short-cut find it is no longer quicker, and stop using it. As I've said before, the yellow stickers worked because they improved courtesy among residents and enabled residents to identify alien traffic. There's nothing better than driving at 20mph through the back of Bengeo - stopping politely to allow every neighbour to pass easily - with a fuming alien rat behind you!
Reply ID 8977
One thread working though this thread (if that is possible) is the use of the school-runners who use the "rat run". A few years ago, when I lived on the run, a couple who preferred to remain nameless started a campaign under the pseudonym "Children in Transit" in the Mercury. Their premise was that everybody in Lower Bengeo should take there cars off the streets so they could get there precious offspring to the school on North Road. Not surprisingly they were ridiculed by the residents of Wellington, Nelson , Byde, not least on the ground that they were a sad couple living in an expensive house on the Avenue who forced their kids to abode in a Ford Transit , but I digress. They went to ground & haven’t been heard of since but the point remains of selfish parents usually in expensive (4 wheel drive) motors who insist on driving their children to school whatever the weather, whatever the distance & hell to the rest of us. And I don’t buy the safety argument. Kids being at more risk now than before? Look at the stats, the reverse applies And lets face it at School time they are hardly going to be run over by stationary cars who can’t move on the run….. Wait till next Monday, half the problem will be eradicated.
Reply ID 8978
Actually CP we have noticed that when Duncombe School broke up the morning uphill traffic almost disappeared, making the downhill traffic flow much more smoothly.
Reply ID 8980
quote:I like the use of the word 'possible'. You don't know me, where I live, which school I go to, where I park, the route I use. And as for the other points I mention you know nothing. If you had bothered to read some of my other posts you would have noted that I make a point of avoiding the 'rat run' when possible. I actually drive down North Road and continue through to the middle of the town and up Cowbridge and Port Hill instead of turning left down Beane Road. I do this whenever possible and on a journey that would would be 10 minutes shorter and much shorter in length if I used the rat run. I don't do this all the time but I make the effort to do it as much as possible. Yet when I make this decision to continue instead of turning left into Beane Road I am only a couple of hundred yards from the end of Millmead Way. So, I hope you don't use the convenience of living in Millmead Way to avoid having to drive through the town when you go to the Co-Op.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
You are a possible cause of the traffic on the Rat Run, it is not essential that you drive through Bengeo to get to your sons school. Your Child minder may be another matter depending on location. Actually my gripe with the traffic is the increased flow since the closure of lane on the A10. No I was not totally aware of the problem, as before I moved, I very rarely ventured into Lower Bengeo, especially during rush hour. If its only the Farmers muck you have to put up with, you should count yourself lucky.
Reply ID 8982
The subject of this thread is "Lower Bengeo Residents Association". If you have any comments on the subject of the Bengeo Rat Run then please make them in the "Bengeo Rat Run" thread at http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=591
Reply ID 8993
Thinking about Millmead Way, do the estate agents advertise those houses as "Lower Bengeo"?That might add weight to Victor's claims to inclusion in the LBRA. They do have to suffer the station car park overflow, dog poo left by inconsiderate owners and traffic problems from the rat run, just like everyone else.
Reply ID 8994
Exactly now you are on to my way of thinking. Considering that my front door is about 100 feet away from Port vale (as the crow flys) Was the LBRA set up prior to Millmead Way being built? If so I can understand the reason its not included.
Reply ID 8998
quote:I would have thought that the posts here make it clear that the discussion is about forming a residents asociation for Lower Bengeo, because there isn't one at present. [:)]
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Was the LBRA set up prior to Millmead Way being built? If so I can understand the reason its not included.
Reply ID 9010
quote:Tecnically, the old parish of Bengeo shows Fanshawe Street as the lower boundary - so that would exclude a huge number of residences!
Originally posted by 2929paul
Thinking about Millmead Way, do the estate agents advertise those houses as "Lower Bengeo"?That might add weight to Victor's claims to inclusion in the LBRA. They do have to suffer the station car park overflow, dog poo left by inconsiderate owners and traffic problems from the rat run, just like everyone else.
Reply ID 9029
quote:So If you block off all access to Lower Bengeo just below Fanshawe Street, maybe some High Walls and barbed wire to keep ouy the people that don't actually live in Bengeo [;)]
Originally posted by nora batty
Tecnically, the old parish of Bengeo shows Fanshawe Street as the lower boundary - so that would exclude a huge number of residences!
Reply ID 9032
Have you seen "Passport To Pimlico"?
Reply ID 9036
That's the answer then. "Lower" Bengeo is that fictional creation of the estate agents, which, once added to the details of a property, increases the value by 10-20%, even though it isn't Bengeo. If Millmead Way is thus described, it's in. Byde Street from the Fanshawe/Farquhar junction down, Balfour, Wellington, Nelson, Archers, Uplyme, Port Vale (to the west of the Balfour junction), Molewood Road - any other new little developments I've missed? - are those entitled to membership! Apply for your passports now.
Reply ID 9065
quote:So "Lower Bengeo" doesn't really exist and is not part of Bengeo at all, just a fictional creation of Estate Agents, If that is the case could we encompass Sele Farm in Lower Bengeo as well [:D] Or would we be better going for an "Upper Hertingfordbury" residents association.
Originally posted by 2929paul
That's the answer then. "Lower" Bengeo is that fictional creation of the estate agents, which, once added to the details of a property, increases the value by 10-20%, even though it isn't Bengeo. If Millmead Way is thus described, it's in. Byde Street from the Fanshawe/Farquhar junction down, Balfour, Wellington, Nelson, Archers, Uplyme, Port Vale (to the west of the Balfour junction), Molewood Road - any other new little developments I've missed? - are those entitled to membership! Apply for your passports now.
Reply ID 9067
How about "Middle Bengeo" Then you could have "Over Bengeo" and "Under Bengeo" as well. Or "Lesser Bengeo" and "Greater Bengeo" - much more definitive!
Reply ID 9260
Received my letter yesterday, once glance at it is enough to convince me that this association will be little more than a rat-run pressure group. Basically the whole letter was dedicated to the rat-run issue - indeed the letter was entitled "Sick of the Traffic?" - with only a tiny space in the corner that stated "oh yeah, we want to do other stuff too." I encourage as many people as possible from Lower Bengeo (wherever that is!) to get involved to help make this association a successful campaign machine on a wide range of Lower Bengeo issues - come to the meeting prepared otherwise I fear this will turn into a rat-run free-for-all.
Reply ID 9475
I have received a letter this morning from Hertfordshire Highways informing residents that they welcome, and are prepared to work with, a Residents Association regarding the traffic problems in Bengeo. It stresses, however, that the funding process is not dependent on community involvement but on proof "...accurate data on levels of rat-running rather than anecdotal accounts." The letter sums up as follows: "In conclusion, we would confirm our desire and intention to work with the local community to resolve as many of the current traffic problems as possible. However, this is a two-way process and only the positive, constructive co-operation of the commnity will deliver our joint objectives".
Reply ID 9477
They were thinking of placing infra red counters at either end of the rat run to monitor traffic alongside number plate recognition technology. See my other comments on parking forum
Reply ID 9479
quote:Yes - that is what the letter infers. That data would make very interesting reading.
Originally posted by sloopjohnb
They were thinking of placing infra red counters at either end of the rat run to monitor traffic alongside number plate recognition technology. See my other comments on parking forum
Reply ID 9480
quote:[pedantic mode] That is what the letter implies or that is what you infer from the letter A letter isn't able to infer anything [/pedantic mode]
Originally posted by nora battyquote:Yes - that is what the letter infers. That data would make very interesting reading.
Originally posted by sloopjohnb
They were thinking of placing infra red counters at either end of the rat run to monitor traffic alongside number plate recognition technology. See my other comments on parking forum
Reply ID 9493
quote:So does this technology make my congestion charging proposal viable? (See my various toungue in cheek/facetious/"rude" comments previously on the forum.)
Originally posted by sloopjohnb
They were thinking of placing infra red counters at either end of the rat run to monitor traffic alongside number plate recognition technology. See my other comments on parking forum
Reply ID 9495
it aims to differentiate between the persistent rat-runner and the occassional driver, leaving out I suppose people who live there. Wonders of modern technology - nothing said yet about a congestion charge. Give them time!
Reply ID 10297
Reminder to all you Lower Bengeoites that the first LBRA association meeting is this evening in the scout hut.
Reply ID 10313
quote:Bengeonians...?
Originally posted by Joby
Reminder to all you Lower Bengeoites that the first LBRA association meeting is this evening in the scout hut.
Reply ID 10315
put it to the vote this evening (at least it will give us something else to discuss than traffic)
Reply ID 10671
Lower Bengeo Residents Association Web Site is at http://www.bengeo.demon.co.uk/bra/
Reply ID 10672
[}:)]I still think that they should just block the road off at the bottom of Bengeo - then when the residents want to drive their Chelsea Tractors from Byde Street to Hertford North Station (or beyond) they have to go via old cross like what they expect everybody else to do.[}:)] Please note that I am not picking on anybody, I don't know what kind of cars people in Byde Street actually drive I have just made a sweepeingly generalised statement to illustrate a point. If you want to stop Bengeo being used as a through route then block off one end of it - problem solved. All other solutions would involve huge wastes of council money.
Reply ID 10674
From your post Can we gather that you do not or have not ever lived in the Lower Bengeo area? True blocking off one end would stop the through traffic, but why should someone that lives just either side of the said barrier be made to suffer?
Reply ID 10675
I don't live in Lower Bengeo but I do have to endure the problems caused by the lack of Hertford Bypass and traffic lights at Old Cross. I sometimes drive up through lower Bengeo too so as not to have to drive all the way to Old Cross and then back on myself. What is so special about Bengeo Residents that means they get special roads for their own personal use when the rest of us have to suffer. Part of the problem is that houses built for people without cars now have people with cars living in them and they want to park their car outside. It boils down to the fact that if people don't want the roads used as a through route it needs to be made a no through route.
Reply ID 10679
I don't think many of us in Bengeo are naive enough to believe that we will get special roads for our own personal use, or, more importantly, conceited enough to believe that we should have them. What we want is a fair deal on traffic. Based on the number of cars our streets can safely accommodate, we suffer a disproportionate amount of through traffic. It is that imbalance that needs to be addressed. So no special treatment, just a fair deal.
Reply ID 10700
Part of the problem is that houses built for people without cars now have people with cars living in them and they want to park their car outside Where should they park them then??? It is not a problem drivng through Lower Bengeo during the day, its the rush hour that is the problem. West Street is deemed an acess only route and is policed every now and then accordingly. Why can they not do the same with the rat run? If you do not live within this area you cannot possible comment correctly on the problem faced with rush hour traffic.
Reply ID 10701
quote:I don't think Jez was making a criticism here. He was just pointing out that the motor car didn't feature in the architects mind when designing the homes.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Part of the problem is that houses built for people without cars now have people with cars living in them and they want to park their car outside Where should they park them then???
Reply ID 10710
Thanks Steve, That is exactly the point I was making, and if I lived in Lower Bengeo I would probably have the same compalints and issues that the residents who post here also have. I still don't think that a counting cars type solution is ultimately going to solve this problem.
Reply ID 10772
Guys This topic will still be going on in 10 years time, just as it has been for the last 10 years. Rules and laws can only be enforced with the consent of the public. In this case the general public do not agree access only signs on roads and highways which are repairable at public expense. Would the lower Bengeo residents be willing to pay for the upkeep of the roads for them to become truely access only ( I dont think so). The idea about using Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology to track persistant offenders who use the rat run is a joke. THere are only a couple of these units in the county and they are used to track criminals not for small minded issues like this one. If I ever get stopped I will use the rehursed excuse of "oh, I am just going to Molewood garage..Is that a problem" But saying that I use it every day and I,ve never been stopped.
Reply ID 10774
quote:Indeed. As an aside does anyone remember "parents in transit" a short lived and inarticulate couple who had a few letters in the HM, 10 or more years ago complaining how they couldnt easily transport "little Jonny & Jenny" from The Avenue to their school in North Rd because of all the pesky cars thet the residents of Lower Bengeo had rudly parked outside their houses... As I recall they got rather short shift...
Originally posted by dms001
Guys This topic will still be going on in 10 years time, just as it has been for the last 10 years.
Reply ID 10775
quote:What is the source of your information please?
Originally posted by dms001
Guys The idea about using Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology to track persistant offenders who use the rat run is a joke. THere are only a couple of these units in the county and they are used to track criminals not for small minded issues like this one.
Reply ID 10778
I read about it in a local magazine and then looked it up on the herts police website
Reply ID 10779
The use of number plate recognition did come up at a Hertford Transport Forum meeting. Mainly to monitor regular usage as opposed to occassional use but it was a suggestion not an intention, as far as I remember. I don't think that any of the towns cameras has that capability either.
Reply ID 10780
If you take your research a little deeper you will find that by the end of 2003 every police force in the country had a least 2 ANPR systems. These are capable of instantly checking a high volume of number plates against a massive database of all UK registered cars, and are capable of accurately reading number plates at quite a distance e.g. motorway traffic. It seems quite feasible to me, therefore, that less sophisticated systems (which do not need to access a huge database, do not need to read at great distances, speeds, or high volumes) are readily available at highways agencies. Would the council have suggested this method of monitoring if they did not have access to it? It would seem rather folly to do so, knowing full well that there is a large body of residents ready to pounce. It seems to me that it is quite a simple thing to do - read incoming and outgoing number plates at each end, then match the two ends with a filter that eliminates matched readings that are more than x minutes apart.
Reply ID 10788
quote:Nora, I don't mean to piss on your chips but I said that there are only a couple in the county. What part of that needs deeper research. Two is a couple. What is the use of the system going to prove any way. We know that people use it every day. Knowing who the users are means nothing as there are no consequences. If ANPR was such a great idea, why didn`t the council do it. Councils often do and say things which appease people but actually solve nothing. Remember back a couple of years when every one had a moan about the rat run and the council put up a few signs saying no access. Did it make any difference? An article in the Mercury about three weeks after they were put up openly stated that they would not be actively enforced. Look at the bigger picture. The council or public are not interested in using large funds for the sake of two streets which are affected a couple of hours a day. Especially when it will force more traffic through the already struggling town roads.
Originally posted by nora batty
If you take your research a little deeper you will find that by the end of 2003 every police force in the country had a least 2 ANPR systems.
Reply ID 10791
quote:Sorry, I read it as country. What a nasty turn of phrase you have. What a pity ANPR can't screen out foul-mouths too. If you didn't mean to p**s on my chips, you obviously have a very poor aim, or something too small to handle without tweezers.
Originally posted by dms001 Nora, I don't mean to piss on your chips but I said that there are only a couple in the county. What part of that needs deeper research. Two is a couple.
Reply ID 10797
Heres an easy idea! If it is not already, make Byde Street access only, then every other day at rush hour stick a couple of bobbies on it stopping cars and asking where they have come from and where they are going too, exactly as they do every now and then on West Street. This would stop most people risking using it as they would be fined, it was also be a revenue driver for the Herts Police. So much so I cannot believe they have not done it already. People have asked on this Forum why only Lower Bengeo residents should get preferential treatment, well as you can see from my statement, West Street is already getting preferential treatment on a road that would never be used as much as the Rat Run.
Reply ID 10802
quote:I agree totally about West Street - it is hardly a very useful rat run, I think that there is a "political" reason why the police stop people down there and not in lower Bengeo.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Heres an easy idea! If it is not already, make Byde Street access only, then every other day at rush hour stick a couple of bobbies on it stopping cars and asking where they have come from and where they are going too, exactly as they do every now and then on West Street. This would stop most people risking using it as they would be fined, it was also be a revenue driver for the Herts Police. So much so I cannot believe they have not done it already. People have asked on this Forum why only Lower Bengeo residents should get preferential treatment, well as you can see from my statement, West Street is already getting preferential treatment on a road that would never be used as much as the Rat Run.
Reply ID 10803
But do you not agree that this would be a cost effective deterrent to the Rat Run situation. If abusers faced a fix penalty, most would not take the risk day in day out.
Reply ID 10804
Where would the police stop the cars?
Reply ID 10805
I must admit I was thinking of that Ewoowar. There is no where to stop people with out causing giant delays. I understand that it takes 10-15 minutes to do a ticket after all the checks are carried out which is a long time when you take into account the amount cars actually travelling through.
Reply ID 10806
quote:Yep. Chaos. The irony is that the volume of cars using the rat run is both the very reason the enforcement is needed and the reason why a police 'stop and question' approach may not work. Still. I think that the genuine 'local' users would understand and put up with the occasional chaos while the police stop the rat-runners.
Originally posted by dms001
I must admit I was thinking of that Ewoowar. There is no where to stop people with out causing giant delays. I understand that it takes 10-15 minutes to do a ticket after all the checks are carried out which is a long time when you take into account the amount cars actually travelling through.
Reply ID 10807
I think the problem would be exacerbated by the number of car drivers who live within the restricted area and are perfectly entitled to exit at either end of the rat run. It's not like West Street where just a few hundred yards of houses are involved. I suggest this would only work in conjunction with issuing stickers/discs to each household within the restricted area so that their cars would be excluded from the police action.
Reply ID 10808
Please define your rat run. I live off Welwyn Road and the other evening I visited a friend who lives in (Upper?)Bengeo. I used what I believe you define as the rat run as it is a PUBLIC ROAD PAID FOR WITH PUBLIC MONEY THAT THE PUBLIC ARE ALLOWED TO USE and also the most direct route. Does this mean I deserve your scorn as a rat runner? Please tell me what the police would be ticketing people for...there are no regulations to stop anyone using these roads!
Reply ID 10809
Shouldn't this debate be posted under the rat run topic instaed of LBRA?
Reply ID 10810
quote:Go outside, take a few deep breaths, calm down, then re-read my posts. I haven't 'scorned' anybody. I came up with a suggestion (that I am sure has probably been mentioned before) to a problem that affects the residents of certain roads in Bengeo. And besides, given what you said, that you were visiting a friend within the area, you would be perfectly entitled to use the road if the restrictions were in place. It's the same as in West Street. I know someone who lives in West Street and if I was visiting them by car I would be perfectly entitled to drive down the road and to give that reason to the police if I were stopped.
Originally posted by carlos fandango
Please define your rat run. I live off Welwyn Road and the other evening I visited a friend who lives in (Upper?)Bengeo. I used what I believe you define as the rat run as it is a PUBLIC ROAD PAID FOR WITH PUBLIC MONEY THAT THE PUBLIC ARE ALLOWED TO USE and also the most direct route. Does this mean I deserve your scorn as a rat runner? Please tell me what the police would be ticketing people for...there are no regulations to stop anyone using these roads!
Reply ID 10811
quote:Yes.
Originally posted by nora batty
Shouldn't this debate be posted under the rat run topic instaed of LBRA?
Reply ID 10812
I am calm really....hadn't read the whole thread...now I have the whole rat run issue sounds like a bunch on nimby's.I do restate that people using this route are doing nothing wrong. Also if there is so much traffic using what I agree are too small roads, why hasn't the hold ups this would cause obliged people to use another route anyway? Afraid to say my friends this will only be sorted when the world runs out of oil.
Reply ID 10813
Congestion Charging Zone - starting at the crossroads of Farquahar/Fanshawe, running south down Byde Street and stopping at the Balfour/Wellington junction. £5 per car per visit. Byde Street residents in the zone pay a small annual fee, other Bengeo residents pay a slightly higher annual fee. Sorted. Works for Ken, self funds the road repairs and pays the NHS bills each time a driver knocks down some innocent resident/pedestrian. Also, funds the holidays of the LBRA committee.
Reply ID 10814
quote:Okay. I don't like the phrases ' rat run' or 'rat runners', but I need to use it here. The rat-runners, being people who live outside the rat run area, use the rat run because it shortens their journey. It makes things easier for them. There are, I believe, two types of people who are genuinely affected by the rat-runners; firstly, those who live outside the area but who have a genuine need to enter it (and not pass straight through), and secondly, and most importantly, those wo live within the area. The argument, "why hasn't the hold ups this would cause obliged people to use another route anyway?", is flawed. The rat-runners who add to the traffic problems are still getting a shorter journey so they ill continue to use the rat run until it becomes less convenient.
Originally posted by carlos fandango
I am calm really....hadn't read the whole thread...now I have the whole rat run issue sounds like a bunch on nimby's.I do restate that people using this route are doing nothing wrong. Also if there is so much traffic using what I agree are too small roads, why hasn't the hold ups this would cause obliged people to use another route anyway? Afraid to say my friends this will only be sorted when the world runs out of oil.
Reply ID 10815
quote:The Rat Runs from Bengeo Street to Beane Road. Maybe if Byde Street was made Access only from the hours of 7.00am until 10.00am and then 5.00pm until 7.00pm it would solve the real problem "rush hour" Please note doing this would actually mean I would not be able to use Byde Street, but I would gladly sacrifice this to not have queue up for 10 minutes along Beane Road every morning.
Originally posted by carlos fandango
Please define your rat run. I live off Welwyn Road and the other evening I visited a friend who lives in (Upper?)Bengeo. I used what I believe you define as the rat run as it is a PUBLIC ROAD PAID FOR WITH PUBLIC MONEY THAT THE PUBLIC ARE ALLOWED TO USE and also the most direct route. Does this mean I deserve your scorn as a rat runner? Please tell me what the police would be ticketing people for...there are no regulations to stop anyone using these roads!
Reply ID 10816
Oh, I can't be ars*d any more. I don't even live in the damn area.
Reply ID 10817
Oh go on. Be arsed. Knock yourself out with it.
Reply ID 10818
If you wish to post comments about the Bengeo Rat Run please use the appropriate thread... http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=591 id="green">
Reply ID 10819
Think we have said enough for now thank you!