Topic
Topic ID 7461
10/11/2013 by wingcomm
Time for a secular service?
Have been down to town to the service of remembrance. It was very disappointing to see and hear how much the religious groups dominate what should be a national and inclusive act.
I want to take my children to the service but as with previous years it was 95% religion and ' dear god' this', 'we are not worthy god' that and a hymn about how 'we vow to you god'. This is not suitable for the majority of britons who feel excluded when national and local services are taken over like this. The two church preachers (i'm not religous so I don't know how the ranking works... Black belts??) droned on and no-one really listened...
An elderly ex-serviceman gave the 'we will remember them' speech but that was it. We should hear more from him and other ex service personnel.
So here us my proposal for 2014
A secular service. If the church wants to be there they can but the people of Hertford run the service. Representatives of all the local services (Police, fire, etc) plus businesses and schools.
Sing some rousing songs... 'rule Brittainia' if you like (no chas n dave)....songs that give a sense of belonging and community, hear from ex-servicemen and women plus current service personnel. Fall silent for the fallen and those who remain. Watch the british legion march through parliament square and then buy each other a beer and raise it to those who died for our freedoms...
Thoughts?
Replies
Reply ID 96562
10/11/2013 by jasmine98
This really does make a lot of sense. I absolutely agree.
Reply ID 96563
10/11/2013 by Forbes
Yes....100% agreement [:)]
Reply ID 96567
10/11/2013 by Billywindsock
That sounds like a plan, I'd help with that.
Reply ID 96570
10/11/2013 by James007
Agree 100%
Reply ID 96571
10/11/2013 by spitfire
It will only ever change if the local Royal British Legion want it to...Does seem odd that they have a service at the memorial, then march off to All Saints to do another one.
What happens in Ware is the parade attends a church service, which is followed by wreath laying at the war memorial , at which there are no religious bits.
Reply ID 96573
11/11/2013 by Spear
I imagine it's because of the "Church of England" being the State religion with the Queen as it's head.
I also find your "This is not suitable for the majority of britons who feel excluded" odd given that, at last count, 75% of the population said they were of a religion and about 60% said they were Christian.
Reply ID 96575
11/11/2013 by night owl
Sorry I disagree, this is a service of remembrance, a church service and the same as a funeral service, so unless you have trod in these soldiers boots, I don't think your right, Wingcomm.
Reply ID 96577
11/11/2013 by Golden
I think the point Wingcomm is trying to make is that the service should honour the soldiers and not 'god'. There were soldiers of many nationalities and faiths who gave their lives in the wars and we should be recognising that fact. There are not many left who 'trod in their boots' and times have changed where we can only imagine what they went through by reading the books and poems written at the time.
Dulce et decorum est.
Reply ID 96579
11/11/2013 by Capitalist piglet
I noticed that this years event was far more Christianized than previous years. Which was ironic as I saw more cultures represented in the crowd than ever.In fact as my mate Yous said "first time I remember not being the token ethnic".... Plus the Secular attendees. Spear talks nonsense; his statistics are dragged from dubious pro Christian sources & have very little validity. Try using attendance at Hertford churchs against the whole population of the town. And drop the bloody anthem & play Jerusalem (a secular hymn) next time. At least we can sing along....
Reply ID 96582
11/11/2013 by wingcomm
It IS about the soldiers and NOT about the beliefs of religious folk. One of the previous comments said that in Ware there is a seperate service. Surely this is the way forward as our war memorial is not a christian or any other religion's monument. Those that want to say prayers or some such have churches to do that in. Sure there may be 60% in census figures who are 'christian' but I think we all know how many of us actually believe.... But that is getting away from the point... We want a public , inclusive and positive service ( see original post about rousing songs). We could have thousands attending and remembering those who died for us. I'm not looking for an argument about rights and wrongs of religions, i want to have a public, secular service.
Reply ID 96583
11/11/2013 by night owl
Well if you want rousing songs Wingco how about going to a football match and you can sing as loud as you want, but a service of remembrance is not the place and unless you have served in the armed forces and gone on active service then I don't think you have any idea what they go through and what part prayers ect play in this.
Reply ID 96584
12/11/2013 by james
quote:
Originally posted by wingcomm
Sing some rousing songs... 'rule Brittainia' if you like
So you want to sing some jingoistic celebration of Britain's global conquest at a service to remember the soldiers who died (in often futile) wars.
I think you've completely misunderstood what Remembrance Sunday is all about.
Reply ID 96585
12/11/2013 by wingcomm
Not surprised... Wanting to have a service that doesn't mention one of the many gods available, having children hear from ex-servicemen and singing some songs that will make us realise what a great country this is..... Is considered a bad thing?
Reply ID 96586
12/11/2013 by Spear
quote:
Originally posted by Capitalist piglet
Spear talks nonsense; his statistics are dragged from dubious pro Christian sources & have very little validity. Try using attendance at Hertford churchs against the whole population of the town. And drop the bloody anthem & play Jerusalem (a secular hymn) next time. At least we can sing along....
My source is the 2011 census. Dubious maybe, pro Christian I doubt.
(Talking nonsense I will leave to you)
Reply ID 96587
12/11/2013 by Spear
quote:
Originally posted by wingcomm
Not surprised... Wanting to have a service that doesn't mention one of the many gods available, having children hear from ex-servicemen and singing some songs that will make us realise what a great country this is..... Is considered a bad thing?
The first part I have no problem with, as has been said there are church services for those who want them.
But remembrance is about all who have died in war and, In my view at least, not the place for nationalism.
Reply ID 96592
12/11/2013 by Drama Queen
I haven't attended a ceremony for some time, since in Guides!!! but whilst I consider myself a Christian faith-wise I have always felt the solemnity of having some of the ceremony in a church significant as a quiet and solemn place to think, pray in whichever way you want and sing hymns. I think the idea of a secular service very interesting but I would not like to get rid of the Service in a church or other solemn venue.. as to me its about remembering my late Uncle who died aged 20 in WW2 and the sacrifice he made so that I have my freedom today... I think there's a place for a solemn service of Christian beliefs and a non-secular service/ceremony too.. I think this is being discussed at national level but it sounds like a good idea to me....
16 replies