Topic ID 7365
http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/News/BREAKING-NEWS-Two-Brewers-pub-in-Port-Vale-raided-20130913201410.htm
Reply ID 95575
Never had any appeal for me, not surprised at all. Always looks like a really dodgy clientele hanging around that place.
Reply ID 95576
The only surprise here is that it wasn't raided years ago.
Reply ID 95577
quote:Really ? Always looked like tradesman going for a well earned pint after work to me , do you think builders look dodgy ?
Originally posted by newboy
Never had any appeal for me, not surprised at all. Always looks like a really dodgy clientele hanging around that place.
Reply ID 95587
Interesting quote from the Mercury timed 30 minutes after the raid supposedly started "East Herts chief inspector Gerry McDonald said the six had been arrested on suspicion of possessing Class A drugs, with some arrested on suspicion of possession with intent to supply." I heard over the weekend that only one has been charged and all the others given cautions - hardly a fit punishment for dealing crack cocaine in my opinion although I may have been given wrong information. Now if the CI wants to give a really strong message that drugs are not to be tolerated why doesn't he pick on one of the bigger town centre pubs (maybe not too far from the Ram) rather than the smaller pubs - and the pubs from where people spill onto the street fighting in the early hours (and where from experience while I was walking past the incident the bouncers thought it was hilarious that some guy was getting his head trodden on only yards from the door)? Maybe the CI can justify the resources used in these incidents (what initiated the raid and did they have any complaints?) and the gathering of intelligence as teams would have been watching the pubs over the past few months given the results - but in my opinion its a sledgehammer to crack a nut when there are bigger issues in Hertford town centre at the weekends that could justify these resources. And it doesn't take a genius to know this is going on - I go out once or twice a week at most, I'm not into the drugs in any way but just keep my eyes open - what I do see is sometimes quite appalling in different ways. The young guys a few weeks ago thinking that having a shop called 'Gays'was funny and that as it was so funny they'd all take a pee against the window - this was about 9pm in the evening - to the incidents of fighting that I've witnessed in Fore St. So CI I'd much prefer the 30 officers to be wandering the Fore St area between 9pm - 2am than keeping me safe than catching a few low grade users and part time dealers. From my recent experiences of the Brewers they were quite lucky to catch 6 people in there on a Friday evening.
Reply ID 95601
quote:I've been in plenty of London establishments , where supposedly educated, wealthy and successful punters partake quite openly in the use of Class A drugs.
Originally posted by Donostiaquote:Really ? Always looked like tradesman going for a well earned pint after work to me , do you think builders look dodgy ?
Originally posted by newboy
Never had any appeal for me, not surprised at all. Always looks like a really dodgy clientele hanging around that place.
Reply ID 95611
so just as useless an operation for the keystone cops as the Ram raid then. A few low end small time users cautioned and let off whilst the towns dealers and pushers stand by and laugh. why are we surprised, if the Chief Inspector wants to send out a message then he has.. just how incompetent. Herts constabulary are couldnt catch a cold.......
Reply ID 95612
Not how I read it,but each to their own intepretation.
Reply ID 95616
UPDATED http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/News/BREAKING-NEWS-Two-Brewers-pub-in-Port-Vale-raided-20130913201410.htm Agree with some of the post's here, attacking small pubs and cautioning for possession, how is that tackling the current supposed "drug problem" or demonstrating that drugs wont be tolerated? I would be surprised if any of the larger more "sophisticated bars" or pubs where targeted, I don't think the police would be prepared, have the resources, nor would enjoy the paperwork afterwards!
Reply ID 95624
I think that there will be focus on many more establishments other than small pubs like The Two Brewers. My understanding is that this week Hertford an Ware Police are having a "Licensing week of action" including focus on anti-social behaviour of all types associated with Public Houses. They have written to Pub Landlords to that effect.This is a national initiative - hopefully our town will be a nicer place to be this Thurs/Fri and Sat when the rest of the world (or at least North London) appears to drink and fight.
Reply ID 95661
quote:
Originally posted by toffee
Agree with some of the post's here, attacking small pubs and cautioning for possession, how is that tackling the current supposed "drug problem" or demonstrating that drugs wont be tolerated?
quote:One of the arrests was (quoting the article) "on suspicion of allowing the premises to be used for the supply of drugs". This suggests something more substantial than "a few low end small time users". Consider that the pub is in a residential area and right next to a school and ask yourself again whether such operations are a waste of time.
Originally posted by Spice
so just as useless an operation for the keystone cops as the Ram raid then. A few low end small time users cautioned and let off whilst the towns dealers and pushers stand by and laugh.
Reply ID 95664
Joby whenever any premises are raided where there is someone holding what is known as a 'Personal License' required to supervise the premises this person is arrested at the time as controlling such actions is part of the supervising responsibilities - so one of the persons is easy to identify and the rest are low end users. Regarding your question I don't think these raids are a waste of time just a waste of resources when, in my opinion, there are bigger issues to deal with in Hertford rather than a few headline grabbing drugs raids for the CI to put on his CV.
Reply ID 95665
quote:Whether its right or wrong, the crackdown on Class A dealing is treated with priority as it creates other crime.
Originally posted by Golden
Joby whenever any premises are raided where there is someone holding what is known as a 'Personal License' required to supervise the premises this person is arrested at the time as controlling such actions is part of the supervising responsibilities - so one of the persons is easy to identify and the rest are low end users. Regarding your question I don't think these raids are a waste of time just a waste of resources when, in my opinion, there are bigger issues to deal with in Hertford rather than a few headline grabbing drugs raids for the CI to put on his CV.
Reply ID 95666
Robbo, my argument is that there are many other establishments in town with far worse problems than the Ram/Brewers but they're put in the 'too difficult' category therefore the trade still goes on but to demonstrate that there is a crackdown on class A a few local pubs are chosen to be raided creating a false impression (in my opinion) that the problem is being taken seriously.
Reply ID 95669
quote:Indeed, one would hope that other places which are as bad or worse would be treated in the same way! Maybe they will get round to it now they have cut their teeth on the easier establishments.
Originally posted by Golden
Robbo, my argument is that there are many other establishments in town with far worse problems than the Ram/Brewers but they're put in the 'too difficult' category therefore the trade still goes on but to demonstrate that there is a crackdown on class A a few local pubs are chosen to be raided creating a false impression (in my opinion) that the problem is being taken seriously.
Reply ID 95676
quote:You must be referring to the Designated Premises Supervisor who has to be registered with the Licensing Authority.
Originally posted by Golden
Joby whenever any premises are raided where there is someone holding what is known as a 'Personal License' required to supervise the premises this person is arrested at the time as controlling such actions is part of the supervising responsibilities - so one of the persons is easy to identify and the rest are low end users. Regarding your question I don't think these raids are a waste of time just a waste of resources when, in my opinion, there are bigger issues to deal with in Hertford rather than a few headline grabbing drugs raids for the CI to put on his CV.
Reply ID 95677
Yes that's the one - if you need the full explanation its on the government websites. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/home-office/series/alcohol-licensing-personal-licences
Reply ID 95692
These raids achieve nothing in the long run. If a user is arrested another one will step straight into his shoes. The users are insignificant. Why aren't the Police going after the real villains...the dealers. Almost everyone in Hertford knows that there are some Albanians who run the drug scene. If the Police don't know that, they shouldn't be doing the job.
Reply ID 95693
quote:There are? And almost everyone knows this?
Originally posted by buzzAlmost everyone in Hertford knows that there are some Albanians who run the drug scene.
Reply ID 95694
I didn't know that but then I don't do drugs. Drugs is for mugs.
Reply ID 95695
I didn't know that either. Happily I'm not almost everyone.
Reply ID 95714
They don't call him 'Buzz' for nothing.[8D]
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
I didn't know that either. Happily I'm not almost everyone.
Reply ID 95716
I agree with Golden. Spectacular waste of what must have been a huge amount of our money on a pyhrric and amateurishly publicised 'victory'. Meanwhile people are beating the crap out of each other on alcohol in the town centre.
Reply ID 95744
Drugs is for mugs? I really hope that's ironic because if not it's straight from the George Bush school of halfwitted fastest slogan in the West idiocy. If one insisted on saying something so inane, one might say 'drugs are for mugs'. And if drugs are for mugs, shall we dispose of almost all art and literature since so much was created under the influence of one drug or another?
Reply ID 95771
quote:Nope, you've not managed to change my viewpoint. Drugs is still for mugs. Especially for those that don't have the intellect to generate natural highs.
Originally posted by kevsaunders
Drugs is for mugs? I really hope that's ironic because if not it's straight from the George Bush school of halfwitted fastest slogan in the West idiocy. If one insisted on saying something so inane, one might say 'drugs are for mugs'. And if drugs are for mugs, shall we dispose of almost all art and literature since so much was created under the influence of one drug or another?
Reply ID 95773
This thread is becoming gramatically as well as psychotropically challenged.
Reply ID 95780
I can't see how this is wasting police resources when referencing to drunken fights in late night establishments. Pubs sell alcohol, a legal substance for over 18 yr olds. Too much alcohol causes unruley behaviour: fights/damage to property etc. How are police expected to put an end to that ? Make alcohol illegal ? Close down all pubs ? we all know how that will turn out. Cocaine (Crack or not) etc is an illegal substance. Not legally sold anywhere. By removing these substances / establishments where they are sold is an inhernetly better solution to prevent people getting increasingly out of control on more highly potent substances. Using police resources to deal with the fall out of substance abuse ( fighting, vandalism and general disruption to those the choice not to partake in substance abuse activities) is like fighting fire with unlimited fuel and oxygen. Beeter education on alcohol from families and society. Irradication of class A drugs in the public domain (Pub = public house). (I believe the police and support groups are currently doing this). I own a Pink Floyd album and can agree on the creative side of substance abuse; but I have been the two brewers and seen first hand the destructive side of substance abuse.
Reply ID 95782
And now we can add spelling to the list.
Reply ID 95784
quote:That's a sweeping statement. Too much alcohol only causes unruly behaviour in certain people. I've been legless many times in my life and have never felt the urge to behave aggressively.
Originally posted by RealMcCoy
Too much alcohol causes unruley behaviour
Reply ID 95785
Driving past the Two Brewers at the weekend I noticed a well known local villian with drug related convictions drinking and smoking outside.
Reply ID 95787
quote:How very dare he.
Originally posted by Steve
Driving past the Two Brewers at the weekend I noticed a well known local villian with drug related convictions drinking and smoking outside.
Reply ID 95788
quote:Good to see the patrons upholding the law and smoking outside .
Originally posted by Steve
Driving past the Two Brewers at the weekend I noticed a well known local villian with drug related convictions drinking and smoking outside.
Reply ID 95873
quote:Maybe they do know it, but excuse them if they care not to share it with people on a forum.
Originally posted by buzz
These raids achieve nothing in the long run. If a dealer is arrested another one will step straight into his shoes. The users are insignificant. Why aren't the Police going after the real villains...the dealers. Almost everyone in Hertford knows that there are some Albanians who run the drug scene. If the Police don't know that, they shouldn't be doing the job.
Reply ID 95877
In view of people talking about 'villains' at the Two Brewers, I think it's important to mention here that the landlord, as well as being a friend of mine, is someone who has contributed a huge amount to our little town - in his generosity of spirit and by helping people on countless occasions in his own quiet way. He looks after people in a way that very few have the courage to even try. If you don't know the people you're talking about, don't make spurious judgements. It's unfair; it's ill-informed; it's mean spirited and it's wrong.
Reply ID 95878
Real McCoy. I also own a Pink Floyd album - and yes that's a destructive consequence of drug abuse.
Reply ID 95882
quote:In reply to 'Bigbloke: I have re-read my post several times and nowhere can I see that I have suggested that the police should share information about their intelligence re dealers. In reply to Kev Saunders: I have not suggested that the 'villains' use The Two Brewers. Read my post again.
Originally posted by buzzquote:
Originally posted by bigblokequote:Maybe they do know it, but excuse them if they care not to share it with people on a forum.
Originally posted by buzz
These raids achieve nothing in the long run. If a user is arrested another one will step straight into his shoes. The users are insignificant. Why aren't the Police going after the real villains...the dealers. Almost everyone in Hertford knows that there are some Albanians who run the drug scene. If the Police don't know that, they shouldn't be doing the job.
Reply ID 95888
Wasn't referring to your post Buzz!
Reply ID 95892
quote:Ok, apologies.
Originally posted by kevsaunders
Wasn't referring to your post Buzz!
Reply ID 96675
Anyone got a description of this Mark Preston character ? Supplying class drugs, a good person to avoid
Reply ID 96686
Reply ID 96761
quote:Is this allowed on a public forum before the court case ? I'm rather proud of the innocent until proven guilty legal system we have in this country .
Originally posted by RealMcCoy
Anyone got a description of this Mark Preston character ? Supplying class drugs, a good person to avoid
Reply ID 96764
quote:That should probably be "Allegedly supplying class A drugs"
Originally posted by Donostiaquote:Is this allowed on a public forum before the court case ? I'm rather proud of the innocent until proven guilty legal system we have in this country .
Originally posted by RealMcCoy
Anyone got a description of this Mark Preston character ? Supplying class drugs, a good person to avoid
Reply ID 96766
As far as I'm aware The Two Brewers is a free house. If the forthcoming licence review leads to revocation would it be forced to close?