Topic
Topic ID 7253
29/06/2013 by sloopjohnb
Pedestrian obstructions
As promised am returning to an old chestnut. This is also by way of an explanation to a forum member who knows who they are. It is not quite an apology but an appreciation of another's viewpoint.
Number one son walked through Maidenhead Street this afternoon and commented on the number of tables and chairs from Costa Coffee that had sprouted in the highway. Not to mention a couple of waving banners. They shouldn't be there. They were on the highway and a dangerous obstruction. I will not go on about planning permission.
I had a very public exchange of views a few years back about A-Boards and goods being displayed on the pavements. As a result Highways drafted a Code of Practice which was passed to myself and others for comment. The final draft was then handed to those traders in town that had A-Boards outside their premises.
It stated that they were to be of a certain size and should not swing, revolve or gyrate. They should not be able to cause damage to pedestrians. They were to be placed against shop premises or items of immovable street furniture such as post boxes or lamp posts. The rationale behind this was that if a blind or partially sighted person was to walk along the pavement they should expect to find the same obstacle in the same place every day. Pedestrian safety was at the core of this Code.
This was fine as it goes but there was one big, glaring hole. There was no provision made for enforcement. It could not be the police because this was not a criminal offence. It was not a decision for PCSO's because they were employed by East Herts and Highways had no enforcement officers. There was no Town Centre Manager either to keep an eye on things. So what happened was that it was all a waste of time because as new shops moved in and/or with new managers they had no knowledge of a Code Of Practice that hardly anyone really knew about anyway. To be quite honest the situation in town is far worse now than when this situation first arose.
I have seen able bodied people stumble over A-Boards and they are now placed like a giant slalom along Railway Street. In the absence of any control who is to say that traders are doing anything wrong.
The powers that be admitted that some traders needed to advertise themselves but some order should prevail. Nothing was done. I do not know what has happened to that Code of Practice but walking around town now I wish someone would find out. I see advertising material in the middle of roads, nowhere near the premises that owns it and placed anyhow but with the safety of pedestrians or motorists in mind.
Considering I was told that by East Herts at the behest of Highways to remove banners advertising Farmers Markets from the roundabouts that I put up on Tuesdays and removed on Saturday afternoon I find the situation regarding A-Boards somewhat hypocritical, considering the demand was on the grounds of safety.
In short where is the uniformity of practice.
Replies
Reply ID 94474
30/06/2013 by kevsaunders
There's no logic or uniformity of practice! I've been told I can't put up banners promoting events for the town that I organise in collaboration with the local councils - yet everyone else puts up their banners without a problem. See the point about A-boards getting in the way, but they rarely bother me. Personally, I think we should all follows the example of the powers that be with the magnificently oxymoronic posters they stuck up on local lamp-posts to inform us that it is illegal to stick posters to lamp-posts. And the street signs that say very clearly that forbidding the drinking of alcohol is contrary to the Criminal Justice Act. I adhere to the letter of the law and have been dutifully drinking under the sign.
Reply ID 94477
30/06/2013 by Enoughofthat
In short where is the uniformity of practice.
Perhaps that's because the matters you raise, while all of a theme, are individually sufficiently different as to not be suitable for the same approach.
I tackled one extreme example of A-boards in Maidenhead Street earlier in the year. http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=6947
I made the point, canvassed opinion, acted on it myself, got an acknowledgement and some action, albeit perhaps only temporary. I haven't been passed much since then to check.
On the matter of tables and chairs in the street: the difference for me is that Maidenhead street is pedestrianized. Cars and vans proceed at walking pace and visual distractions and obstructions are less significant. If they are a bother at all is only as an annoyance which then comes down to a matter of opinion similar to the A-board issue.
However, it is different matter at a busy roundabout where the speed is greater, with fast moving hazards approaching from several directions. In that situation I can see a real and unnecessary distraction to drivers. It is sensible not to allow advertising near busy traffic.
As for enforcement: we need first to be clear about what is the real issues. Personally, if it is glaring matter I'll tackle it directly myself. If it falls in the category of a mild annoyance then I'll apply the live-and-let-live philosophy; step round and walk on.
Reply ID 94478
30/06/2013 by sloopjohnb
Kev and myself have around long enough to know that it is far easier for the powers that be to clamp down on the official organisers who are trying to bring benefit to the town than people who just want to advertise their fete, event or business. I still see banners on railings all around town and they are left there. No one enforces any policy but I know that if Kev put up a banner advertising this years Music Festival it would be removed. Something like Highways did in Ware regarding an official event some years back. It was found on the local tip with no offer of recompense.
Maidenhead Street is not pedestrianised. It is subject to the same highways regs as the rest of town apart from one thing. Anyone displaying a disabled sticker is allowed to park there all day if they so wish. Apart from Saturday when there is a market and only market traders are allowed to park there. There is something about police cars in there as well but they have been known to drive down the wrong way to buy a McDonalds when that establishment was there. The Highways Order is packed away somewhere with all my other stuff that I have retired along with myself. I may at some time try and unearth this treasure trove.
As for A-Boards, of course if you can see them you can walk around them. If you read what I wrote you will appreciate that if a blind person walked down Evron Place towards Maidenhead Street a few weeks back and expected to pass through two steel posts they would crash into one of Costa Coffee boards, because it wasn't there the day before.
The point I was trying to make, that after the issue of signage and display of goods being raised which you can track through the Mercury letters archive, a solution was achieved that appeared to satisfy nearly everybody. But of course a Code of Practice that isn't enforced isn't worth the paper it was printed on; or the time, effort and argument that went into preparing it.
To be honest I can't be bothered to keep bringing matters to the attention of those agencies that could do something about it. I did succeed with many proposals and projects but I walk around now and see the whole thing in disarray so once again as I think I said to Enoughofthat about two years ago, time to retire properly this time.
Reply ID 94479
30/06/2013 by Enoughofthat
This post has been removed because it does not comply with our Acceptable Use Policy
Reply ID 94481
30/06/2013 by james
quote:
Originally posted by sloopjohnb
It stated that they were to be of a certain size and should not swing, revolve or gyrate. They should not be able to cause damage to pedestrians. They were to be placed against shop premises or items of immovable street furniture such as post boxes or lamp posts. The rationale behind this was that if a blind or partially sighted person was to walk along the pavement they should expect to find the same obstacle in the same place every day. Pedestrian safety was at the core of this Code.
So I've you to thank as to why Fingertips are allowed to place their A-board in the bike racks outside their shop :/
Reply ID 94490
01/07/2013 by Hero
They should get the traffic wardens to police it. They like the low hanging fruit.
Reply ID 94491
01/07/2013 by sloopjohnb
quote:
So I've you to thank as to why Fingertips are allowed to place their A-board in the bike racks outside their shop :/
I didn't write the thing; just allowed to comment along with St Andrews Street Traders Association and a few other groups. I'm not so sure it was an original document either; maybe taken from another authority and adjusted for local use. Who knows the workings of the Highways mind?
As I said there was no provision made for who was to enforce this. I most probably raised the question at the Hertford Transport Forum but that democratic body no longer exists either.
Not going to rush to anyone's defence but as I said above so many shops have changed hands along with management I would bet that no one knows such a Code of Practice actually exists. But I am equally sure that no one at any level of Council or Highways is going to do anything about it.
Sometimes I just like to get things off my chest; its like an occasional series that pops up on TV.
Reply ID 94611
11/07/2013 by caramel
At the traffic lights on Mill Bridge/ Old Cross yesterday, travelling towards St Andrew Street, I noticed one of those 'sail type' advertising 'things' on the edge of the pavement, near Anthony Lettings on Mill Bridge. It was not obstructing pedestrians, but it was flapping very near the kerb edge and I felt a little off putting when driving. The A boards etc, I do find frustrating as they often do block the way. When you have pushchairs, it is often hard to negotiate some areas. Just thought I would mention it.
Reply ID 94640
13/07/2013 by Sudi
l had never had an issue with any boards, signs or the like, until l recently took a partially sighted friend round the town. Now l can understand what a hazard they can be, as it is not as though they are in a line, or even the same place each day, for vision-impaired people to learn where they are.[8D]
lt was certainly an eye-opener for me! ( no pun intended, honest!)
9 replies