Topic ID 6809
Does anyone know anything about this Police Crime Commissioner and how to vote and who is standing for the job?
Reply ID 90321
Hopefully this might be of use http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/pcc.aspx
Reply ID 90322
The PCC elections will be run in the same manner as a local, county, general election etc. You should receive postal vote/poll card as per usual and will be able to vote you normally would on 15 November. Sherma Batson is the Labour candidate, David Lloyd the Conservative and as yet the Lib Dems are still to announce as their preferred candidate has had to withdraw for personnel reasons!!
Reply ID 90377
Are there only three parties running, and no independents?
Reply ID 90381
And why is it a party political issue at all? I really don't understand how voting for some anonymous party candidate is going to improve policing. I don't recall any public clamour for this new role either. Was the system broken?
Reply ID 90382
I agree with Steve re political parties, and I would much prefer an independent candidate who does not feel they need to tow the party line. I actually quite like the idea of the elected element re policing as they will have to work for their votes if they want to keep their job, so the police may in fact become more responsive. It would have been better to have someone independent though, otherwise we end up with the same old drivel from the same old three parties, and judging by their performance nationally (even locally) they are all as incompetent as each other. It would be great to have someone charismatic, outspoken, and someone who was not a career politician - had actually done something with their lives apart from politics as soon as they left university. Who should we suggest? I would love Dr David Starkey to stand!
Reply ID 90384
quote:Well yes, that would certainly provoke some debate [8D]
Originally posted by Mark MG
Who should we suggest? I would love Dr David Starkey to stand!
Reply ID 90387
quote:I understand the reasoning, but I'm not happy about the method. Lack of accountability has eroded trust in police and needs addressing. However, I believe this should be achieved in a way which is not political and by separation of the complaints procedure into non-police hands. At present, if one has a complaint against a police officer, it is investigated by members of the same team of which he/she is a member, with predictable lack of result.
Originally posted by Steve
And why is it a party political issue at all? I really don't understand how voting for some anonymous party candidate is going to improve policing. I don't recall any public clamour for this new role either. Was the system broken?
Reply ID 90406
quote:We (or at least I) often sneer at the political system that prevails in the USA but the election of local "Sherrifs" has some real merit and could easily be adopted here if, as stated, candidates stand independently and address local issues. If we don't like the way we're being policed we can elect a new one!
Originally posted by shuntquote:I understand the reasoning, but I'm not happy about the method. Lack of accountability has eroded trust in police and needs addressing. However, I believe this should be achieved in a way which is not political and by separation of the complaints procedure into non-police hands. At present, if one has a complaint against a police officer, it is investigated by members of the same team of which he/she is a member, with predictable lack of result.
Originally posted by Steve
And why is it a party political issue at all? I really don't understand how voting for some anonymous party candidate is going to improve policing. I don't recall any public clamour for this new role either. Was the system broken?
Reply ID 90421
I think Darcy Sarto hit the right nail on the head about accountability and re-electing someone new. What worries and bores me in equal measure is that we get some moron who come election time starts relying on statistics and targets and performance indicators, like some super charged local authority official. What we need is someone who tackles what people see out of their windows each evening; what they have to walk past when they get to the supermarket; what they have to see when they are on the bus or train each day; and to make people feel safe that when they get home after work each night their home will be in the same state as they left it, not having been burgled or vandalised. That's what matters to me. I am less inclined to feel safe knowing the police are busy checking bus and train tickets. I want them to tackle anti-social behaviour which for a long time now has been bounced back and forth to the local authority.
Reply ID 91034
So! Should I vote tomorrow?
Reply ID 91035
quote:I would always advise anyone they should vote whenever possible, so yes you should. Who for? That's a different question entirely.
Originally posted by Arty
So! Should I vote tomorrow?
Reply ID 91036
quote:This is different from a normal election where you're voting for who runs the country or local authority. I think a lot of people diagree with the policy of having PCCs. The initiative is a political one, I don't recall and public clamour or campaign for them. I also think many people disagree with what they see as the politiciisation of the police. The question is - should you not bother voting or spoil your ballot paper (and there will probably be quite a few spoiilt ballots anyway because of the voting system being used for the election).
Originally posted by Benquote:I would always advise anyone they should vote whenever possible, so yes you should. Who for? That's a different question entirely.
Originally posted by Arty
So! Should I vote tomorrow?
Reply ID 91042
The election will take place whether anyone agrees with it in principle or not, so you might as well have your say in the matter. Personally I don't like the idea either. Prioritising crime solving and prevention implies that other crimes will be ignored, and when this happens those in charge will say that we chose which crimes to tackle by voting in the PCC, thereby removing themselves from accepting responsibility.
Reply ID 91044
I feel the Police should be above politics and also I don't know a thing about the so called candidates, who's paying their inflated salaries etc... In times of losing School teaching Assistants, librarians, lollipop ladies and gents and others I would rather the money for this so called commissioner to go on people who have a valuable job to do in Society. I will NOT be voting on principle and exercising my democratic right to say I didn't ask for these elections, they are not going to alter my view and are not going to make the Police force, IMHO, do what I need them to do... Ie: i would like them out of the desks and on the beat! So this ardent voter for other elections is saying this is one election I am not going to bother with at all..
Reply ID 91045
This is one election where not voting or 'spoiling' your ballot paper will send the most profound message of all.
Reply ID 91046
My polling card is already in the bin. I'm with Drama Queen on this one.
Reply ID 91053
With such a low expected turnout it will be interesting to see how many minority parties (e.g. UKIP, BNP, Lib Dems) are elected.
Reply ID 91055
quote:What polling card?
Originally posted by CityBird
My polling card is already in the bin. I'm with Drama Queen on this one.
Reply ID 91056
Yes, I received my polling card about 4 weeks or so ago, A5 size black and white clearly with my name and address on it.. I guess they get the details from the Electoral Role??? I don't think the turn out in the UK is very high.. Quite frankly I don't see how a Commissioner is going to get more bobbies back on the beat, stopping the mass redundancies and part-time opening hours of our Police Stations....
Reply ID 91057
The following, (taken from Wikipedia) shows the composition of a Police Authority In England and Wales, a police authority is a single purpose authority with representatives nominated by the local authority(ies), independent members, and magistrates. Typically, a police authority is made up of seventeen members - nine elected members (who are drawn from the local authority or authorities for the force area, and should be reflective of the political makeup of those authorities). The remaining eight members are called independent members, and are appointed from the local community for fixed terms of four years by the police authority itself. At least three of the police authority's independent members must be magistrates. How can electing ONE person to take over the role be democratic. Totallly political and an unnecessary waste of public money. I for one shall not be endorsing this scam by voting
Reply ID 91058
I usually abstain from voting if no candidate closely represents my views, reckoning that spoiling the ballot paper wouldn't be noticed as a protest. Consequently, I rarely vote. With a low turn out expected and the politicians already prepared with a party line to spin against the apparent electoral apathy, I opted to spoil my ballot paper. Of course, it will make not a jot of difference to the eventual carve-up, but briefly I dreamt the dream.
Reply ID 91059
quote:I for one would like to see a lot of minority parties, as suggested, are elected. Not because I necessarily endorse their policies or views, but to show the government what an almighty cock-up they have made
Originally posted by Hero
With such a low expected turnout it will be interesting to see how many minority parties (e.g. UKIP, BNP, Lib Dems) are elected.
Reply ID 91063
Paper duly spoilt. Hope Harriet Branton suffragette (3rd cousin twice removed) would have approved
Reply ID 91070
I am very much in agreement with the sentiments that these appointments should be apolitical but to abuse or throw away any vote is criminal. You (we) will get what we deserve for our apathy. Perhaps when we have experienced this for a while we will pluck up the gumption to field an independent candidate next time.
Reply ID 91075
"to abuse or throw away any vote is criminal." I know of no act of Parliament that makes it a criminal offence. 'Abusing' or throwing away a vote is the only way to let government know that they are acting against the will of the people
Reply ID 91076
quote:Indeed, what is 'criminal' is the party politicisation of the Police, most of us don't want that and the only way to vote against it was to abstain or 'spoil'. Also, it makes me angry hearing on the news as I just have on the BBC that over 80% of voters "Couldn't be bothered to vote." I've always taken elections very seriously and abstaining was a calculated decision for me as it was for many others. I resent being referred to as a "couldn't be bothered."
Originally posted by buzz
"to abuse or throw away any vote is criminal." I know of no act of Parliament that makes it a criminal offence. 'Abusing' or throwing away a vote is the only way to let government know that they are acting against the will of the people
Reply ID 91078
Perhaps the government should have a box on all papers marked Protest or Abstain to let them know the true feelings of the people.
Reply ID 91079
Buzz - there is no statute that says you have to interpret all literary offerings literally! Donald Trump's haircut is "criminal" also but he won't go to gaol for it! Sometimes people try to emphasise a point with hyperbole and unecessary use of exclamation marks. Cut us some slack. By the way it is an offence not to vote in some countries. Dennismore/Night Owl - bob on! - if there had been a "Re-open Nominations" or "None of the Above" option on the ballot paper we could have voiced our true disaffection. I think the turnout would have been better too. Ideally an independent candidate who had bothered to communicate with us might also have reduced the "active abstention factor" (what a great name for the BBC's re-vamped Newsnight).
Reply ID 91080
Oh and if you want to be pedantic (which seems the order of the day) - "Abusing or throwing away a vote" is clearly not the "only way" to let the government know they are acting against the will of the people. Ms Pankhurst managed it and she didn't have the option to vote.
Reply ID 91081
quote:He would if I was PCC.
Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
Donald Trump's haircut is "criminal" also but he won't go to gaol for it!
Reply ID 91084
quote:Are you suggesting then, that we follow Ms Pankhursts example by smashing windows and assaulting Police Officers?
Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
Oh and if you want to be pedantic (which seems the order of the day) - "Abusing or throwing away a vote" is clearly not the "only way" to let the government know they are acting against the will of the people. Ms Pankhurst managed it and she didn't have the option to vote.
Reply ID 91085
Is that what you really think I was suggesting?
Reply ID 91086
quote:Well, you were the one that suggested she demonstrated an alternative way of opposing the government.
Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
Is that what you really think I was suggesting?
Reply ID 91087
For someone who doesn't get rhetoric and delights in grammatical correction you sometimes display some remarkably imaginative leaps. Or are you just argumentative?
Reply ID 91088
I know that the conservative chap won this but does anyone know the results for the others and how many votes they got? I have tried the web but not much joy on that one.
Reply ID 91089
quote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20348051
Originally posted by night owl
I know that the conservative chap won this but does anyone know the results for the others and how many votes they got? I have tried the web but not much joy on that one.
Reply ID 91090
I notice the report says "Turnout does not include spoiled ballots". I know of people who took the trouble to turn up at the polling station and write their protest about these elections on their ballot paper. How convenient to ignore them
Reply ID 91091
quote:Another very good reason for including an abstention option on ballot papers. The debate about whether we just didn't care or were actively opposed to politically aligned police commissioners will go on forever without the ability to record a "non-vote".
Originally posted by dennismoore
I notice the report says "Turnout does not include spoiled ballots". I know of people who took the trouble to turn up at the polling station and write their protest about these elections on their ballot paper. How convenient to ignore them
Reply ID 91092
quote:Leaving aside the appalling punctuation in your post, consider the following. If you hold up Mrs Emily Pankhurst as an example of how to get the government to change its mind, without distancing yourself from the methods she employed, it is hardly an "imaginative leap" to suggest you endorse her methods. As for being "argumentative", it was yourself who argued against my original post. Res ipsa loquitur.
Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
For someone who doesn't get rhetoric and delights in grammatical correction you sometimes display some remarkably imaginative leaps. Or are you just argumentative?
Reply ID 91093
quote:Tell you what Buzz - go pick a fight with someone on your own level. I can be more insulting if you like - or if you prefer you can tell everyone you won this one with your superior intellect[xx(]
Originally posted by buzz
[quote]Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
For someone who doesn't get rhetoric and delights in grammatical correction you sometimes display some remarkably imaginative leaps. Or are you just argumentative? [/q Leaving aside the appalling punctuation in your post, consider the following. If you hold up Mrs Emily Pankhurst as an example of how to get the government to change its mind, without distancing yourself from the methods she employed, it is hardly an "imaginative leap" to suggest you endorse her methods. As for being "argumentative", it was yourself who argued against my original post. Res ipsa loquitur.
Reply ID 91094
Buzz - sorry, couldn't resist a dig on your terms - she wasn't called Emily.
Reply ID 91095
Back to the actual purpose of the forum.... Does anyone know if our new commissioner plans to hold any focus groups our consultations or is he just going ahead based on his Tory mandate?
Reply ID 91096
quote:Ok, Emmeline, but Emily to most people
Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
Buzz - sorry, couldn't resist a dig on your terms - she wasn't called Emily.
Reply ID 91097
That result is staggering! UKIP managed to get 11% of the vote with the policy of "I used to be a midwife" and Labour came second just by saying "vote for me because the Conservatives will do A, B and C" Seriously?
Reply ID 91100
quote:Yes, you're right; I do need to move up from your level
Originally posted by Darcy Sartoquote:Tell you what Buzz - go pick a fight with someone on your own level. I can be more insulting if you like - or if you prefer you can tell everyone you won this one with your superior intellect[xx(]
Originally posted by buzz
[quote]Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
For someone who doesn't get rhetoric and delights in grammatical correction you sometimes display some remarkably imaginative leaps. Or are you just argumentative? [/q Leaving aside the appalling punctuation in your post, consider the following. If you hold up Mrs Emily Pankhurst as an example of how to get the government to change its mind, without distancing yourself from the methods she employed, it is hardly an "imaginative leap" to suggest you endorse her methods. As for being "argumentative", it was yourself who argued against my original post. Res ipsa loquitur.
Reply ID 91101
quote:Go on then.
Originally posted by buzzquote:Yes, you're right; I do need to move up from your level
Originally posted by Darcy Sartoquote:Tell you what Buzz - go pick a fight with someone on your own level. I can be more insulting if you like - or if you prefer you can tell everyone you won this one with your superior intellect[xx(]
Originally posted by buzz
[quote]Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
For someone who doesn't get rhetoric and delights in grammatical correction you sometimes display some remarkably imaginative leaps. Or are you just argumentative? [/q Leaving aside the appalling punctuation in your post, consider the following. If you hold up Mrs Emily Pankhurst as an example of how to get the government to change its mind, without distancing yourself from the methods she employed, it is hardly an "imaginative leap" to suggest you endorse her methods. As for being "argumentative", it was yourself who argued against my original post. Res ipsa loquitur.
Reply ID 91104
quote:Consider it done[:)]
Originally posted by Darcy Sartoquote:Go on then.
Originally posted by buzzquote:Yes, you're right; I do need to move up from your level
Originally posted by Darcy Sartoquote:Tell you what Buzz - go pick a fight with someone on your own level. I can be more insulting if you like - or if you prefer you can tell everyone you won this one with your superior intellect[xx(]
Originally posted by buzz
[quote]Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
For someone who doesn't get rhetoric and delights in grammatical correction you sometimes display some remarkably imaginative leaps. Or are you just argumentative? [/q Leaving aside the appalling punctuation in your post, consider the following. If you hold up Mrs Emily Pankhurst as an example of how to get the government to change its mind, without distancing yourself from the methods she employed, it is hardly an "imaginative leap" to suggest you endorse her methods. As for being "argumentative", it was yourself who argued against my original post. Res ipsa loquitur.
Reply ID 91106
quote:Why would a one trick party like UKIP want their man to be commissioner anyway? What priorities do they want to bring to policing?.....The apprehension of burglars called Jacques or Luigi? Clamping down on speeding Renaults and Audis? Rounding up ne'er do wells drinking Belgian lager round Parliament Square on a Friday night?
Originally posted by jez_p
That result is staggering! UKIP managed to get 11% of the vote with the policy of "I used to be a midwife" and Labour came second just by saying "vote for me because the Conservatives will do A, B and C" Seriously?
Reply ID 91107
quote:[:D] I can recommend that Dennis's reply is read out to oneself a la Basil Fawlty (the deaf guest episode with Mrs Richards one)
Originally posted by dennismoorequote:Why would a one trick party like UKIP want their man to be commissioner anyway? What priorities do they want to bring to policing?.....The apprehension of burglars called Jacques or Luigi? Clamping down on speeding Renaults and Audis? Rounding up ne'er do wells drinking Belgian lager round Parliament Square on a Friday night?
Originally posted by jez_p
That result is staggering! UKIP managed to get 11% of the vote with the policy of "I used to be a midwife" and Labour came second just by saying "vote for me because the Conservatives will do A, B and C" Seriously?
Reply ID 91108
quote:I've just done that and it could very well have come from a Fawlty Towers script....very funny![:D]
Originally posted by Artyquote:[:D] I can recommend that Dennis's reply is read out to oneself a la Basil Fawlty (the deaf guest episode with Mrs Richards one)
Originally posted by dennismoorequote:Why would a one trick party like UKIP want their man to be commissioner anyway? What priorities do they want to bring to policing?.....The apprehension of burglars called Jacques or Luigi? Clamping down on speeding Renaults and Audis? Rounding up ne'er do wells drinking Belgian lager round Parliament Square on a Friday night?
Originally posted by jez_p
That result is staggering! UKIP managed to get 11% of the vote with the policy of "I used to be a midwife" and Labour came second just by saying "vote for me because the Conservatives will do A, B and C" Seriously?
Reply ID 91109
This is what happens when you introduce party allegiance. The major parties field (comparatively) serious candidates which just encourages the fringe parties to put up someone to "uphold democracy" whan actually there is little or no choice or, as in this case, we might have wanted to choose someone or something else altogether. Party politics is not, necessarily, a bad thing of itself. When voting for individuals you don't know you can at least comfort yourself with the view that, within a particular party, the candidate will perhaps express your wishes more often than those of the other parties. The problem with the PCC elections is we are yet to be convinced that they should be divvied up along party lines at all.
Reply ID 91116
quote:Or, (at the risk of sparking Darcy Sarto off again),whether they were at all necessary.
Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
This is what happens when you introduce party allegiance. The major parties field (comparatively) serious candidates which just encourages the fringe parties to put up someone to "uphold democracy" whan actually there is little or no choice or, as in this case, we might have wanted to choose someone or something else altogether. Party politics is not, necessarily, a bad thing of itself. When voting for individuals you don't know you can at least comfort yourself with the view that, within a particular party, the candidate will perhaps express your wishes more often than those of the other parties. The problem with the PCC elections is we are yet to be convinced that they should be divvied up along party lines at all.
Reply ID 91118
quote:Buzz I agree with you on this one - so there [:p] If you want an argument find someone else this time [xx(]
Originally posted by buzzquote:Or, (at the risk of sparking Darcy Sarto off again),whether they were at all necessary.
Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
This is what happens when you introduce party allegiance. The major parties field (comparatively) serious candidates which just encourages the fringe parties to put up someone to "uphold democracy" whan actually there is little or no choice or, as in this case, we might have wanted to choose someone or something else altogether. Party politics is not, necessarily, a bad thing of itself. When voting for individuals you don't know you can at least comfort yourself with the view that, within a particular party, the candidate will perhaps express your wishes more often than those of the other parties. The problem with the PCC elections is we are yet to be convinced that they should be divvied up along party lines at all.
Reply ID 91119
I agree too
Reply ID 91120
quote:Who's suggesting I want an argument?
Originally posted by Darcy Sartoquote:Buzz I agree with you on this one - so there [:p] If you want an argument find someone else this time [xx(]
Originally posted by buzzquote:Or, (at the risk of sparking Darcy Sarto off again),whether they were at all necessary.
Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
This is what happens when you introduce party allegiance. The major parties field (comparatively) serious candidates which just encourages the fringe parties to put up someone to "uphold democracy" whan actually there is little or no choice or, as in this case, we might have wanted to choose someone or something else altogether. Party politics is not, necessarily, a bad thing of itself. When voting for individuals you don't know you can at least comfort yourself with the view that, within a particular party, the candidate will perhaps express your wishes more often than those of the other parties. The problem with the PCC elections is we are yet to be convinced that they should be divvied up along party lines at all.
Reply ID 91135
"Who's suggesting I want an argument?" You did Buzz "at the risk of sparking Darcy Sarto off again" - now shut up - we want to discuss the topic rather than indulge in inane bickering which, I suspect, is a right turn off for new or potential contributors.
Reply ID 91141
Getting sucked in by a troll can happen to the best of us, but telling him to shut up almost guarantees another half dozen pages of the juvenile sniping that is buzz's stock contribution to the forum. Far better to just ignore him. It is not important if he gets the last word, In fact it's preferable as it means that his last idiotic screen barf is left hanging as a monument to his imbecility. Any sensible reader can tell which of you is the more intelligent and worthwhile but If you wrestle with a pig you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it.
Reply ID 91143
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Reply ID 91148
quote:Well, it appears my remark DID spark Darcy Sarto off again. Why? I don't know. And, bear in mind, it takes two to tango
Originally posted by Darcy Sarto
"Who's suggesting I want an argument?" You did Buzz "at the risk of sparking Darcy Sarto off again" - now shut up - we want to discuss the topic rather than indulge in inane bickering which, I suspect, is a right turn off for new or potential contributors.
Reply ID 91149
quote:I wonder who is the troll here?
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
Getting sucked in by a troll can happen to the best of us, but telling him to shut up almost guarantees another half dozen pages of the juvenile sniping that is buzz's stock contribution to the forum. Far better to just ignore him. It is not important if he gets the last word, In fact it's preferable as it means that his last idiotic screen barf is left hanging as a monument to his imbecility. Any sensible reader can tell which of you is the more intelligent and worthwhile but If you wrestle with a pig you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it.