Topic ID 6719
Admin I think the removed thread may merit a Police follow up. I have cut and pasted a copy into a word doc anticipating it's removal. Can you PM me with an explanation just in case I am barking up the wrong tree.
Reply ID 89434
You mean this? https://twitter.com/HertfordPolice/status/233895052802420737
Reply ID 89435
Interesting. Cut and paste. Lets see if that disappears.
Reply ID 89436
Hilarious. PC Sarah Smith 1017 is a serving police officer. You are certainly barking up a very large tree. PC1017 is Sarah Smith, a serving local Hertford police officer, trying to make a difference. She has posted her email address with good intent and people get on the 'bandwagon of suspicion'. Didn't you think of sending her an email first? For the record, Winter (Ellis Ward) went on about showing his warrant card to people with Tesco trolleys as he witnessed this from The Albion Pub in Ware which was an obvious breach of authority (which is why he is now on trial). 1017's thread was not a hoax and just a genuine request. I read the original post. Those drinkers were sat on the bench today at midday and like every day, never boarded a bus when it arrived. Old ladies and the disabled have to wait for the buses and all you ever see is around 5 to 8 men and women, along with a white dog, squashed up together on the bench with cans of lager at their lips. Maybe it is me but the liberal attitude of allowing people to drink alcohol, in public, in the town centre, seems to be a very ridiculous argument. These people even use the 'band stand' (can't remember its real name) in the Castle Grounds when it starts to rain. What I don't understand is why these people don't drink in their tax-funded homes.
Reply ID 89442
quote:Ashley Webb shelter ?? ...named after a former Mayor. There was some talk of it being removed because of people using in anti socially like this.
Originally posted by James007
These people even use the 'band stand' (can't remember its real name) in the Castle Grounds when it starts to rain.
Reply ID 89458
For those that missed the original thread. I believe that the thread and the activity leading to its removal raise important matters relating to police conduct and civil rights and treatment of vulnerable persons, here in Hertford. These issues are important and that now they have reached public attention should be discussed in our community and if necessary addressed by our local representatives. I haven’t received a reply to my request for more detail relating to the circumstances surrounding the unusual activity. Which is frustrating as cooperation, transparency and open communication could save unnecessary efforts if we can determine at an early stage whether this is an innocent error or something other. Without that information we have to assume there is something to be known. In the absence of other information I am assuming the thread was deleted because it was left hanging by the removal of the original post. I attempt to re hang it. Below is a summary of events my concerns are laid out in my post but in summary The use of the word “drunks” dehumanises a group of vulnerable people and is inappropriate from a police officer. Although the post was requested to be removed we don’t if this recognition was the reason. Even so, it is potentially revealing of an under-laying attitude. Use of emotive and pejorative language to elicit complaints from the public is inappropriate. Use of social media to broadcast a call to the public to trigger trivial complaints on single issues is inappropriate. Having identified a vulnerable group an opportunity to help is passed over in preference to a determination to criminalise. If the OP was removed in response to criticism is it appropriate to remove the evidence without explanation? On Friday a thread was started by a new account, 1017, with this first post on the site: The missing post, made at 13:24:33, asked if anyone had been “affected” by the “drunks” and gave an email address for PC Sarah Smith. PC Smith’s police number is 1017 so I assume she is also the poster. 30 minutes earlier a post from @HertfordPolice on twitter read: Im compiling some information relating2 the individuals who sit on the bench at 'the wash' drinking. Please dm me if u have been affected. steven replied at 16:33:40 I see them reasonably often on the footpath/bridge over Hertford North. They always say hello and are very polite, if a little tipsy, and their dog likes a bit of attention. Is that the sort of thing you’re after? Steve posted at 16:54:13 Isn’t The Castle and The Wash in the alcohol exclusion zone? 1071 posted at 17:05:13 Yes it is and we always remove any alcohol from them, however we cant move them if they don’t have alcohol on them and are just drunk. We have mixed reports about them. Some say they are harmless but others find them intimidating and id like to gauge what they general consensus is to help me make a decision about whether further restrictions are needed. Enoughofthat posted at 17:15:55 [i]I presume that this post is a hoax? It has a resonance of "Inspector Winter". If taken at face value, it is profoundly unsettling and deeply inappropriate conduct masquerading as community policing. It has a discomforting whiff of harassment about it. I am no lawyer, but presumably if this group have come to the attention of the police, their behaviour will have already been assessed for its criminal merit. And if it has failed that test then why are they to be labelled as "drunks", other than to demonise them of course. If the law hasn't been broken but the behaviour or condition of the people is still a cause for concern then presumably the police have procedures to get these people some medical or social help. If none of the above applies then how is it in the public interest to embark an apparent fishing trip on a social media site populated by trigger-happy whingers (of which I must count myself as one) for a complaint so trivial it can only be classed as "affected by"? It reminds me of the poem "First They Came..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6 If this is in fact not a hoax, can we expect a similar post requesting for information from anyone affected by the group that hang around as the planning committee at Wallfields? [i] At 17:29:43 the original post is replaced with “post removed following request” I believe Golden made a further post but that is now lost because some time before 18:30:00 the remaining thread was removed.
Reply ID 89459
'Vulnerable'?
Reply ID 89460
how is using the word 'drunk' emotive and pejorative language ? Its language that parliament has approved to be used in several statutes, to include the public order act 1986 in addition to the charging standard guidance that the CPS use.
Reply ID 89463
how is using the word 'drunk' emotive and pejorative language ? Its language that parliament has approved to be used in several statutes, to include the public order act 1986 in addition to the charging standard guidance that the CPS use. I don't know the law and specifically not how the word drunk is used in law, but I can appreciate a difference in usage between terming an individual "a drunk" after they have committed a crime, to when the term is used before any offense is established, seemingly to trigger a complaint of an unspecified nature. I can see the latter usage as perhaps an attempt to elicit a comment that can be stretched in to a complaint against an inconvenient group who are a distasteful and unattractive sight to many people, but all the same they are still human beings.
Reply ID 89464
Jeez - roll on the next general election - kick these liberals back into obscurity..........[:(!]
Reply ID 89976
I was reminded of this thread by the news coverage of the Hillsborough report. I am struck by how it rhymes with Police conduct on this forum. Putting aside the standard of policing in regard to public drinking, which I know from other sources the police tacitly accept was questionable, having recognised that they had made a mistake the response was to delete the evidence in an attempt to cover up the incident. I recognise that in comparison to the events at Hillsborough this a trivial matter, but it is revealing about Police culture and psyche. Adult, emotionally mature behaviour is to admit to a mistake, put it in perspective and deal with the consequences. Dishonestly covering up a relatively trivial matter is the type behaviour we could expect from a teenager. In most matters that Police confront, they are the very model of balanced, rational maturity, but when it comes to dealing with their own errors the contrast is stark.
Reply ID 89979
Didn't admin remove the post?
Reply ID 89981
on a slightly lighter note: Funny how they have used an apostrophe here where it isn't needed: https://twitter.com/HertfordPolice/status/246537806099398656 But didn't use one here where it is needed: https://twitter.com/HertfordPolice/status/246537806099398656
Reply ID 90030
Hi, Apologies for not responding to this sooner. I would be happy to meet with you in person should you wish to do so. I do meet with the individuals to whom my original post refers regularly and told them that I would be posting to petition opinion with a view to looking at a more suitable place for them to convene. I apologise if I caused any offence and accept that perhaps my choice of words was poorly judged, however, I used a word they use themselves, if often tongue in cheek. I joined the police service to try and help people and to keep the town in which I spent my formative years safe. I love my job and gave up a career in the private sector to join the service. Why not come and meet them with me? I would be happy for anyone who wishes to do so to accompany me on a shift for a day to see the work I do first hand.
Reply ID 90033
Gonna take her up on it 'Enoughofthat'?
Reply ID 90037
Maybe we should all take 1017 up on this offer!! I am not sure I always want to know the things that any of our emergency services have to contend with. I also would not wish to have to deal with the people in question as to be honest, I do find them 'intimidating' and I am worried to walk past them with my little boy or on my own. I also know someone who was walking along with her dog and the dog was pinned on the ground by one of the dogs, that are sitting at the bench with them. I know someone needs to help these people, but to be fair, how do they finance their drinking, whilst they can, how are they ever going to change their lifestyle? I am not wishing to offend anyone and do think it is a very sad situation.
Reply ID 90038
quote:I'll pass on that, thanks, seeing as when I asked one of them to pick up some litter she dropped, a group of them followed me round town threatening to kill me.
Originally posted by caramel
Maybe we should all take 1017 up on this offer!!
Reply ID 90041
Re the punctuation I will concede on that point. I am educated believe it or not, but I'm often tweeting on the move and distracted by operational demands. I also tweet from home where I have two children demanding my attention. I'm not perfect. Noted though. I will be more thorough within the character number limitations.
Reply ID 90069
I dont care about punctuations or semi colons ect as long as I get my message across thats all that matters and anyone who likes them well;;;::~@#!"""!*&^^$£+?;; he he ;)