Topic ID 648
This is the picture: Just after 9pm - Railway Street outside Barclays Bank - a motorist is shouting obscenities at a pedestrian. A few yards away in Salisbury Square two drunk youths are squaring up for a fight. And this was a SUNDAY evening!
Reply ID 6609
quote:chav central
Originally posted by Steve
This is the picture: Just after 9pm - Railway Street outside Barclays Bank - a motorist is shouting obscenities at a pedestrian. A few yards away in Salisbury Square two drunk youths are squaring up for a fight. And this was a SUNDAY evening!
Reply ID 6610
Do you all honestly think that Hertford is the only town with this type of problem?
Reply ID 6611
Did you feel threatened? Drunks fighting and verbal obscenities must be as old as the discovery of alcohol. Sunday night has no special status in this 24/7 society. It's not pleasant, but not unique to Hertford or Sundays.
Reply ID 6612
Maybe not unique to Hertford but certainly new.
Reply ID 6624
Saturday evening - 2 girls in South Street knocking 10 Bells out of each other. More scarry than the blokes. But when did anyone believe Hertford was so special that it is something that does not happen? There was a great Police prescence - let's face it, this is pretty mild to a lot of places [:)]
Reply ID 6629
I have been drinking in Hertford Since I was 16 (sorry) and believe me, fighting in the street is no new thing. Back in the 80's you could regally see a punch up outside the Woolpack, in the early 90's it was outside the Duncombe Arms. The White Horse has always had it fair share of punch ups as has Stags/21's/Zeros. It astounds me that people seem to think that Hertford is a no go area at weekend now, the trouble has always been here in isolated incidents, except in years past the Mercury did not sensationalise every fight and there was no internet chat boards for people to gossip about every little bit of hand bags in the street.
Reply ID 6630
quote:i think that what puts people off coming to town at weekend, is not so much the trouble, but the loutish behaviour.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
I have been drinking in Hertford Since I was 16 (sorry) and believe me, fighting in the street is no new thing. Back in the 80's you could regally see a punch up outside the Woolpack, in the early 90's it was outside the Duncombe Arms. The White Horse has always had it fair share of punch ups as has Stags/21's/Zeros. It astounds me that people seem to think that Hertford is a no go area at weekend now, the trouble has always been here in isolated incidents, except in years past the Mercury did not sensationalise every fight and there was no internet chat boards for people to gossip about every little bit of hand bags in the street.
Reply ID 6631
But as I said, its been this way for years. Hertford has got busier and busier over the last 5 years, thats why new bars and restaraunts keep opening up. If you go back 10 years Hertford was dead Sunday to Thursday evenings, now you struggle to get parked in Fore street anytime. So to say that people are being put off coming to Hertford because of loutish behaviour, I think is wrong. Just to get one thing straight though I do not condone this behaviour, I just do not believe it is any owrse than it has always been.
Reply ID 6632
I think the question was "Is Hertford Safe at Night?" Depends if you're the one being beaten up! I noticed a rare sight last Thursday two, yes TWO young policeman in their mid 20's, not much older.. walking along Fore Street!!!!! Now where's my camera.. [;)]
Reply ID 6633
Are you sure they were bobbies and not blunketts?
Reply ID 6635
Compared to Camden Town/Holloway in the 60's and 70's Hertford in 2005 is like a hippie peace camp. There are incidents and those that happen frequently get reported in the Mercury so we all get to know about them. I don't mind walking through Hertford late at night - I often do. And I'd rather do that than go for a jig at the Tottenham Royal - even if Brian Poole with or without Tremeloes was playing. Not to mention Dave Clark and his famous five. A lot of problems kick off when certain pubs kick all the customers(!) out at the same time and when cold air meets lack of transport and girl you came in with holding on to someone else there's usually trouble. If you could get hold of the police incident reports I think it would reflect the same thing that goes on in every largish town but actually not so bad as you might think in Hertford considering the number of hostelries open late and the sheer number of bodies floating in the town centre. If I can get such figures released will do and post here.
Reply ID 6636
Couldnt agree more. Too much of a storm in a t-cup.
Reply ID 6637
Question to you Victor.. " the White Horse allways had its fair share of punch ups" ???? i have been in and out of that place on many occastion in the last 15 years and have never seen any trouble.. did you mean the White Hart ?
Reply ID 6639
I (as a girly) walk through the town at night - There are of course the obvious trouble spots but then they can be avoided. A colleague who socialises mainly in Stevenage commented to me about how bad Hertford was - He was outside the Stonehouse! I make my point. To me Hertford holds no real threat anymore than anywhere else, and certainly much less than a lot of places. Lets focus on the positive things about the town, not the negative. I am proud and happy to live in Hertford (alright, off my 'soapbox' now) [:)]
Reply ID 6642
from my point of view, I grew up in Hertford and moved away when I was 20 odd. Personally I do not feel the safety level is the same as it was when I lived there. A lone girl walking down the street now does feel much more vulnerable than before, and even a guy does too. I don't live in Stevenage but when I do go out there, I don't feel as vulnerable in the old town there, or even necessarily on the leisure park. Not sure about other places as I live in a village but I don't think Hertford is as safe as it used to be 10 years ago
Reply ID 6644
quote:Ah yes my mistake!
Originally posted by Stan
Question to you Victor.. " the White Horse allways had its fair share of punch ups" ???? i have been in and out of that place on many occastion in the last 15 years and have never seen any trouble.. did you mean the White Hart ?
Reply ID 6645
I have noticed though that over the last few years the walk home in the evening at weekends is very scary, It seems to me that all the kerbs are raised while i,m in the pub, lamposts move about while i,m not looking. Getting home without tripping up or banging my head is nearly impossible... It's a nightmare !!!!! :-)
Reply ID 6646
Has everyone gone soft?? Women should not be walking home on their own anyway! Men, if you feel unsafe, get a cab home. If you are subject to verbal abuse, walk away and keep your mouth shut. If you keep yourself to yourself whilst walking on your own at night you should not be troubled, if you make comments back to louts, expect to be challenged. Its not ideal, but its called being streetwise.
Reply ID 6647
Why should women not walk alone?isnt that abit sexist[;)]
Reply ID 6648
quote:I would not want my wife to walk home alone from town at night, nothing to do with sexism. Just common sense. Which if a few more people used, they would stay out of trouble.
Originally posted by del
Why should women not walk alone?isnt that abit sexist[;)]
Reply ID 6652
quote:Mr Batty said exactly the same thing. (ex-Hertford Grammar c.1981) On the positive side, we also noted how many of those thugs went on to become respectable local businessmen!
I have been drinking in Hertford Since I was 16 (sorry) and believe me, fighting in the street is no new thing. Back in the 80's you could regally see a punch up outside the Woolpack, in the early 90's it was outside the Duncombe Arms
Reply ID 6653
Respectable thugs never die they just fade away!!!! Ps I was 10 when your husband left school!!
Reply ID 6654
quote:Stan I've been having the same problem for years. It's got so bad lately it's driven me to drink.[:D]
I have noticed though that over the last few years the walk home in the evening at weekends is very scary, It seems to me that all the kerbs are raised while i,m in the pub, lamposts move about while i,m not looking. Getting home without tripping up or banging my head is nearly impossible... It's a nightmare !!!!! :-)
Reply ID 6655
I felt intimidated and threatened on a busy Hertford evening a few weeks ago. But this also happened about 6 years ago. Maybe it is because I grew up in London, but I am always aware of my own safety when I am out, regardless of where I am.
Reply ID 6656
Isnt it just a case of a town gradually becoming closer to the ever expanding girth of greater London. And with that, you inherently get more busy, more people etc and one of the the by-products of that, as well as parking issues/not enough houses etc is an increase in crime. Its just life, like some parts of North London/Broxbourne/Cheshunt. Look at a map of London 20/40/60 years ago. Its frightening how quick the metropolis is swallowing up towns and villages.
Reply ID 6657
I used to be married to a c: 1981 boy aswell, I thought most turned out reasonably well. If you do stay away from the Trouble areas I think you as safe here as you a likely to be anywhere. We will never eradicate the problem we can just hope to supress it somewhat.
Reply ID 6658
Someone clever (not Mr Batty then!) once said "The only way to be safe is never to feel safe". You are not safe anywhere - just look at that poor Abigail that was stabbed in a Surrey village recently. As Ewoowar says, be aware of your own safety.
Reply ID 6660
mrs Del insists on walking home alone at night[;)] but that could be the problem i have fighting off the lamp posts and crawling up the growing kerbs [:D][8D][:D] glad i'm not alone in noticing these things Stan[;)] though mrs Del is very street wise and if i do walk her home she keeps me safe[8D]
Reply ID 6663
quote:Victor I agree with you but unfortunately, you could do the right or wrong thing and still get picked on for it, eg the poor guy in the chicken shop. [:(!][V] I am not saying this only happens in Hertford but there you go. Times do change, places change, and I think Hertford is an example of it. When I was a teenager (only 10 years + ago) the people at my school (yes Sele!!) wouldn't have had the balls to do the things these kids do today. Look at what people say about it now! [:p] I feel like an old fuddy duddy but the other half says the same thing. We all had some backchat I'm sure but we had our fears of being caught at things, of being seen, blah blah all the things this generation should be fearful of and just aren't. It seems that things have changed so fast in general and I'm not even 30! lol! [:D]
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Has everyone gone soft?? Women should not be walking home on their own anyway! Men, if you feel unsafe, get a cab home. If you are subject to verbal abuse, walk away and keep your mouth shut. If you keep yourself to yourself whilst walking on your own at night you should not be troubled, if you make comments back to louts, expect to be challenged. Its not ideal, but its called being streetwise.
Reply ID 6664
When I was about 22 years old I was sitting in a pub with some friends when a group of guys came in looking for someone. An altercation ensued in which one of this group stuck a pint glass into my friends face. It was a completely unprovoked attack. All of the perpetrators were either the same age as me or younger and they had all been to the same school as me, mostly in the same year. My friend, the victim, was a friend of some of them at school. Violence isn't new.
Reply ID 6675
quote:Sorry, but prehaps if this chap had picked up his food a walked out of the shop he could have avoided what happened. There is always a chance they may have followed, but I think unlikely.
Originally posted by smileyorileyquote:Victor I agree with you but unfortunately, you could do the right or wrong thing and still get picked on for it, eg the poor guy in the chicken shop. [:(!][V]
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Has everyone gone soft?? Women should not be walking home on their own anyway! Men, if you feel unsafe, get a cab home. If you are subject to verbal abuse, walk away and keep your mouth shut. If you keep yourself to yourself whilst walking on your own at night you should not be troubled, if you make comments back to louts, expect to be challenged. Its not ideal, but its called being streetwise.
Reply ID 6677
I'm all in favour of us having to be aware of our own safety, however who wants to be in fear all of the time. Things can happen in the day as well as at night. Things can happen in the home aswell as on the Streets. Sometimes constantly being aware can stress you more than the likelyhood of something actually happening. [:(]
Reply ID 6678
quote:My thoughts exactly, i'm only 23 but when I was at school I would not have dared say a thing to anyone who was older than me and likewise I would have had no trouble from those younger than me. Now I can be walking through town and have 13 yr olds shouting abuse at me! I dont know how this has changed so much so quickly and I would be intrigued to see what goes on inside the schools. Surely if a 13 yr old tried it on with an older kid at school he would be heading for a beating? Certainly how it worked when I was there! MY view point is the of Victor Meldrew, you need to be street wise I am a confident person and feel happy walking through town etc at night alone. However my Mrs is not and if she has to travel alone at night she will always get a taxi, or I will end up collecting her... I grew up in WGC and spent most wk ends in stevenage, there was regular trouble esp outside er Pulse was/is it? at least one fight a night! Then when the new bars opened it seemed to get worse, with regular mass brawels outside which I often watched through the window of one of the bars! I was in the Stonehouse on Sat night, I didn't even see a glimmer of trouble the entire night (I know this is just one night and could be an exception) I am still on crutches and there were a lot of very friendle people (young and old) that helped me with the steps (and more importantly getting to the bar) So from that night Hertford squares up very favourably to the likes of Stevenage.
I am not saying this only happens in Hertford but there you go. Times do change, places change, and I think Hertford is an example of it. When I was a teenager (only 10 years + ago) the people at my school (yes Sele!!) wouldn't have had the balls to do the things these kids do today. Look at what people say about it now! I feel like an old fuddy duddy but the other half says the same thing. We all had some backchat I'm sure but we had our fears of being caught at things, of being seen, blah blah all the things this generation should be fearful of and just aren't.
Reply ID 6940
How familiar is the following? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4554611.stm
Reply ID 6941
Hmmm, watching the News earlier was like reading the discover hertford forums! Mr Blair (speaking through the Queen) explaining how the Country needs to get back to being a polite & curteous nation, the 'hoody gangs' caught on camera picking on what looked like a metro! etc... The BBC had some brilliant hidden camera footage of women trying to carry buggies while many people walk past not helping etc... It really sums up my recent feelings, having people walk into me, slam doors on me ect... even though i'm on crutches! It is a sad state that we are in! But heartening to know its not just Hertford eh!
Reply ID 6944
When my Son was a Baby, albeit many years ago, on Public Transport and Shop doors it was the Teenager's that helped lifting, opening doors etc. and it tended to be the Lads. Time's change I know but what a shame [:(]
Reply ID 7032
I'm 34, and I have been out in Hertford town virtually every Fri, Sat and Sunday night since 1987. It has never seen it as bad as it is now. Not even close. Fights at the Woolpack or White Hart used to be once on the blue moon. Now you can walk through the town on any weekend night and catch a fight somewhere. A few weekends ago, I walked from the Number 11, to the Sportsman at aboit 10.30pm. It was like Ibiza. 2 fights, a parking arguement, chav car driving round the town loops with the neon underlights and 50 Cent CDs blaring. 3 girls who could hardly walk (one throwing up), and about 20 14 year olds blocking most of the path at Macdonalds, swearing at passers by. There was at least one smashed window for good measure. I'm not looking at this with rose coloured glasses, this simply did NOT happen 10 years ago. The problems in the town are simply spiraling out of control. Sure it happens elsewhere too, but that does't make it any better. This is exactly what happened to Hoddesdon at the end of the 80's. It got rougher and rougher, until people stopped going there and the town economy collapsed. Its still not recovered to this day.
Reply ID 7036
quote:And if he had stayed at home with a cup of cocoa watching Corrie then it definitely wouldn't have happened. But then, we don't all want to sit at home in front of the telly every evening.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew Sorry, but prehaps if this chap had picked up his food a walked out of the shop he could have avoided what happened. There is always a chance they may have followed, but I think unlikely.
Reply ID 7040
quote:I think it's disgraceful to suggest that somehow he was negligent and contributed in part to the beating he got. That's tantamount to saying that it's partly his own fault. [:(!]
Sorry, but prehaps if this chap had picked up his food a walked out of the shop he could have avoided what happened. There is always a chance they may have followed, but I think unlikely.
Reply ID 7048
May be I'm just Mrs. Scary Pants or something, but I go out in Hertford most weekends and have only seen trouble once, and that was at 12.45 am. At 11.30 most nights it's ok, isn't it?
Reply ID 7057
You are obviously misunderstanding me. It its documented that this chap had been out drinking all evening, it is also documented that he offered the louts money to go and buy there own food. Therefore the comments he made may have come across confrontational. I did not say that the attack was partly his fault, because he spoke to the yobs. What I did say was that the altercation may have been avoided if he had said nothing and walked out of the the shop. Now if you do not agree with me on that note then that is your perogative, but I would strongly advise that if you do find yourself in the same situation, that you prehaps take head to some helpful advise.
Reply ID 7058
It is also documented that he only offered to buy them food after they started helping themselves to his.
Reply ID 7059
I dont think it didnt matterd what the poor man did,those idiots were out to pick on someone,if it wasnt him someone else would have copped it.
Reply ID 7060
quote:This is my point, why offer?? Why not walk away?? Del is correct, they would have more than likely started on someone that night, but why put yourself in the that position.
Originally posted by BobH
It is also documented that he only offered to buy them food after they started helping themselves to his.
Reply ID 7074
I believe the place was swarming with the assailants, so exiting the Chip shop was not necessarily going to a) be easy or b) they were going to let him! I am aware of other points in this awful attack, but this is not the place to air them prior to any court cases. I think I will put up my hand and say I have been quite drunk, gone into the chippy before going home, ordered some food and that maybe I wasn't quite as agile as an antelope as I normally am. Its easy when you're sober to say what you would have done, now add some alcohol to the equation and see how you react. I think I would have been terrified and rooted to the spot. These oiks wanted blood, trouble and a fight, walking away wasn't an option if you're surrounded and what about the staff themselves??? Did anyone try to call the Police??? Lets wait till the Court Cases....
Reply ID 7075
Victor, have you been in the shop? Imagine yourself stood in there and 20 teenagers. Not much room for manouvere.
Reply ID 7077
quote:Yes I have, several times very drunk. But I will still stand by my point that it MAY have been avoided had he not said anything and left. I will also re-state that I do not condone there behaviour and I believe they should be given the harshest punishment.
Originally posted by JohnSmith
Victor, have you been in the shop? Imagine yourself stood in there and 20 teenagers. Not much room for manouvere.
Reply ID 7079
You have to see Victors point of view, it is that, that would be written in a manual covering this type of situation. When confronted/intimidated say nothing walk away/towards other groups of people. However also agreed that drink can make this hard to do! I also believe that this topic has veered in a direction it need not, the issue is that something like this has happened and clearly has the potential to happen again. Clearly the man did not deserve it, no one needs telling that i'm sure!
Reply ID 7086
These are all big issues to us as they are to most places but are we not giving a very bad impression to people that are looking at the site maybe with a view to coming to Hertford for the right reasons and aswell possibly featuring it as a trouble spot for those wanting to come for the wrong ones. We live here and pay hiked up prices to do so - let's make the most of what we have [:(]
Reply ID 7157
quote:True, but at least if they don't come here they won't get beaten up! [;)]
Originally posted by Tigger
These are all big issues to us as they are to most places but are we not giving a very bad impression to people that are looking at the site maybe with a view to coming to Hertford for the right reasons and aswell possibly featuring it as a trouble spot for those wanting to come for the wrong ones. We live here and pay hiked up prices to do so - let's make the most of what we have [:(]
Reply ID 7165
I know the individual most of this topic is about, and will say two things. I saw him after he had been arguing with someone that night and when I heard what had happened, I was surprised he was able to make it that far round Hertford without falling on his face. Also don't believe everything you read in the papers, the story is not 100% accurate. My understanding is that possibly someone saw an opportunity to do a certain amount of score settling, and the individual concerned is not the kind of person who will walk away. I am not condoning what happened in anyway, and the maximum sentances should be handed down when / if they are all caught. Drunken violence by teenagers and early twenty somethings is becoming an increasing problem which the police could I feel easily stamp down on by stopping the pubs in Hertford serving people who are obviously drunk. I believe it is actually against the law to serve an obvioulsy inebriated person punishable with fairly hefty fines, perhaps we should start seeing a few prosecutions that way and see what the licensed community in Hertford then does about the problem..... i.e. get to the root cause! This is not a pop at the licensed trade, just the irresponsible ones! Sorry about such a long post, but I needed to get that off my chest!
Reply ID 7169
quote:I was wondering how long it would be before someone came forward and said this. But that being said I will reiterate, there was no need for the end result and they should be dealt with as harshly as possible
Originally posted by flyer1
I know the individual most of this topic is about, and will say two things. I saw him after he had been arguing with someone that night and when I heard what had happened, I was surprised he was able to make it that far round Hertford without falling on his face. Also don't believe everything you read in the papers, the story is not 100% accurate. My understanding is that possibly someone saw an opportunity to do a certain amount of score settling, and the individual concerned is not the kind of person who will walk away. I am not condoning what happened in anyway, and the maximum sentances should be handed down when / if they are all caught.