Topic ID 6315
Are you concerned about the shortfall of approx 60 Reception places in our area for 2012? The current proposal put forward by Herts County Council(HCC)is a temporary expansion at a school which is at a considerable distance from the East Hertford area, to create places for those children who will not be allocated places at Wheatcroft or Abel smith. If, like us, you do not wish to drive your children to school and consider that a 45 minute walk twice each day is an unreasonable expectation for Reception age children, please join us in demanding that HCC provides us with Reception places at one of our local schools. We will be submitting a petition to HCC very soon. If you would like to add your voice to ours please send your name and address to: [email protected] If you would like further information please send your queries to this address also.
Reply ID 84998
Whats your preferred option? The Abel Smith expansion has already been kicked into touch.
Reply ID 84999
The email address [email protected] is bouncing back, so please can you provide a correct one? Thanks
Reply ID 85000
Stan. When you say "our area", do you mean Hertford in general or a particular area of Hertford? Where would the 45 minute walk be to?
Reply ID 85002
Stan, you have marginalised your cause already by restricting it to SG13. Hertford has a major problem with primary school places that the authorities have failed to address for years. It is not difficult to see that there is an influx of young families from abroad and from North London. The local authorities have IGNORED this. There is only so long the education aithorities can keep their collective heads in the sand before the rather obvious facts creep around and bite them on the @rse.
Reply ID 85004
Getting slightly worried now. My son would start reception in 2013 and all things considered we'll probably have to commute to Stevenage to send him to school. We wanted Millmead. Is there any way you can get your children on a waiting list at a school to guarantee them a place?
Reply ID 85009
Millmead is definately over subscribed as are most schools in Hertford. Millmead is our local school but we have already been told it is unlikely that he will get a place, and we'll have to go to Bengeo or Stapleford!! Madness means we'll have to drive rather than a 10 minute walk. They take children with siblings already at the school first, I know of 2 families that have moved from Hertford (now in Broxbourne and Cheshunt!!) but still come to Millmead and their younger children will automatically get a place over my son who is on the doorstep. Makes my blood boil..................
Reply ID 85011
Start saving and take the private school route - that way you get to choose your school!
Reply ID 85013
to send one kid to a private school, have an average mortgage (lets say 250k on a 400k house), and still have a life i.e be able to go on holiday and not eat baked beans all the time, plus some money to save at the end of the month as a couple you need to be on significantly north of 100k gross these days - and thats with making some sacrifices...
Reply ID 85015
It's a struggle, but some things are worth the sacrifice, but then that's just my opinion. Personally, with the school on offer where we live, I wouldn't even consider it - so it was my only option
Reply ID 85016
Mill Mead.......I think it is possible to obtain information on the allocation of places at the school, and all schools, such as the furthest distance from the school for the children who got allocated a place on the nearest school criteria. How many children who live in Hertford have to travel to other towns for their primary school? ANd how many children from other towns travel in to Hertford schools? And what is being done to address what appears to be a failed system for allocation and an increasing shortage of school places? I also get somewhat agitated by those from outlying towns and villages who get secondary school places in Hertford when there are other secondary schools a lot closer to where they live. Why should their preference mean that a child who lives in Hertford may have to be allocated a school outside of their home town?
Reply ID 85019
quote:But if you are earning £25k which is above the current average according to couple of websites I quickly checked, it is not a struggle, it is utterly impossible.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
It's a struggle, but some things are worth the sacrifice, but then that's just my opinion. Personally, with the school on offer where we live, I wouldn't even consider it - so it was my only option
Reply ID 85021
quote:Where you suggest the children from villages go to secondary school then? They have to travel to get to any secondary school - each village has an allocation to the nearest secondary schools - if you live in a village it can mean a long commute to get to ANY secondary school regardless.
Originally posted by Ewoowar
Mill Mead.......I think it is possible to obtain information on the allocation of places at the school, and all schools, such as the furthest distance from the school for the children who got allocated a place on the nearest school criteria. How many children who live in Hertford have to travel to other towns for their primary school? ANd how many children from other towns travel in to Hertford schools? And what is being done to address what appears to be a failed system for allocation and an increasing shortage of school places? I also get somewhat agitated by those from outlying towns and villages who get secondary school places in Hertford when there are other secondary schools a lot closer to where they live. Why should their preference mean that a child who lives in Hertford may have to be allocated a school outside of their home town?
Reply ID 85022
quote:The nearest. This is not complicated. I recall being at an open evening at a Hertford secondary school and over-hearing people complaining about limited places for villages that were clearly close to Welwyn Garden City. These people felt aggreived when they have good secondary schools close to them in WGC but they want the right to have places at schools in Hertford ahead of children who live in the town itself. So, people in villages and that will have to travel by public transport or drive to take their children to secondary school are able to secure places in schools in towns resulting in local children having to then be educated out of the town and away from their prefered local school? Let's all take our logic outside and burn it, shall we? I live in Hertford. If I thought the best eductaion for my child was in WGC I would try to move home so that I was close to the school. Simple.
Originally posted by Kitty Katquote:Where you suggest the children from villages go to secondary school then? They have to travel to get to any secondary school - each village has an allocation to the nearest secondary schools - if you live in a village it can mean a long commute to get to ANY secondary school regardless.
Originally posted by Ewoowar
Mill Mead.......I think it is possible to obtain information on the allocation of places at the school, and all schools, such as the furthest distance from the school for the children who got allocated a place on the nearest school criteria. How many children who live in Hertford have to travel to other towns for their primary school? ANd how many children from other towns travel in to Hertford schools? And what is being done to address what appears to be a failed system for allocation and an increasing shortage of school places? I also get somewhat agitated by those from outlying towns and villages who get secondary school places in Hertford when there are other secondary schools a lot closer to where they live. Why should their preference mean that a child who lives in Hertford may have to be allocated a school outside of their home town?
Reply ID 85026
Huge apologies! We are having trouble with the email address in the original message. If you would like to add your details to our petition please use this new address [email protected]
Reply ID 85027
Please use the [email protected] address as a point of contact for your comments/ideas/suggestions. Thanks
Reply ID 85028
Town Centre, Bengeo and Sele Farm residents need not apply [:D] Anyone want to start an SG14 Primary Schools Group?
Reply ID 85031
Mill Mead is also our local school, living in Eleanor Rd. I guess we have the choice of either Bengeo Primary or Mill Mead. Mill Mead is our prefered choice but in that he's not due there for another year we fear we we won't be able to send him there. It will be really annoying seeing as we live so close to the school and it is in effect our local primary. Duncombe is a little out of our reach currently...Saying that a lottery win could change that!
quote:
Originally posted by suemay
Millmead is definately over subscribed as are most schools in Hertford. Millmead is our local school but we have already been told it is unlikely that he will get a place, and we'll have to go to Bengeo or Stapleford!! Madness means we'll have to drive rather than a 10 minute walk. They take children with siblings already at the school first, I know of 2 families that have moved from Hertford (now in Broxbourne and Cheshunt!!) but still come to Millmead and their younger children will automatically get a place over my son who is on the doorstep. Makes my blood boil..................
Reply ID 85032
Private education is not a route we could afford to go down, we both work but still would not have the funds to afford it. Also I don't agree with having to pay for private education when you have very good state schools on your doorstep. Something needs to be done to ensure that there are enough places for children to be able to go to their local school. Not sure what the answer is, as it will surely get worse with more children needing places each year, and with the government introducing free schooling for 2 year olds, there aren't even enough places for 3 year olds...........
Reply ID 85034
The annoying thing I found with Mill Mead was that you go through the school selection process for reception and then again to enter year one a year later. During this period your child wears the uniform and gets to know the school and their friends and may find that just one year later they have to go to a different school. Mill Mead has also been heavily impacted by the Mill Mead Way estate. It would be interesting to see if there are education authority forecasts for the number of children in Hertford of school age for future years. I think it would also be interesting to know what these forecasts were if they were made five years ago for 2011 and how accurate they were.
Reply ID 85035
You had to reapply for year one??? I thought it was standard to apply for a nursery place and then again for reception. Once in Reception you are there till Year 6.
Reply ID 85036
quote:I may have got the years wrong. But nonetheless applying twice is insane.
Originally posted by minnie
You had to reapply for year one??? I thought it was standard to apply for a nursery place and then again for reception. Once in Reception you are there till Year 6.
Reply ID 85037
Ah ok! I agree it is insane, it's not just Mill Mead though. This might be why most of the schools don't have uniform in Nursery, then at least if you do have to change schools you haven't bought the uniform.
Reply ID 85038
It's not the cost of the uniform that is the issue. It is the fact that the child becomes a part of the school and then may have to change.
Reply ID 85039
Yes, I know that - that's why I said 'At least' And I did agree that it's mad
Reply ID 85044
There is already an action group for SG14. You can email the group here [email protected]. Be quick - there's a council meeting to discuss the school expansion scheme on 16th Dec. Email any questions / comments to Lisa who is co-ordinating the SG14 action group.
Reply ID 85046
Montgomery........many thanks. This is precisely why this forum serves the good of the community. Is the council meeting limited to specific age groups?
Reply ID 85047
What time and where is the meeting?. If rumours are correct, I think we are at one of the affected schools
Reply ID 85051
Nursery education is optional, many choose not to take a state nursery school place because the short periods it is available for each day makes it impractical for working parents who consequently tend to choose a private day nursery instead. Education is complusory from reception which is why parents have to apply for places at this point.
Reply ID 85055
Minnie - you can email Lisa on [email protected] for full details of the council meeting and how you can get involved with the SG14 group
Reply ID 85059
quote:Yet the same criteria are applied for places for nursery.
Originally posted by CityBird
Nursery education is optional, many choose not to take a state nursery school place because the short periods it is available for each day makes it impractical for working parents who consequently tend to choose a private day nursery instead. Education is complusory from reception which is why parents have to apply for places at this point.
Reply ID 85070
quote:To send one child to a decent Private School (senior school that is, not junior) will set you back around £25k a year. I've no idea how so many people seem to be able to do it. One thing I have noticed is that a lot of people tend to send their kids to a private junior school (probably so they can show off their kids in caps and blazers in the back of their Range Rover Sports) but send them to state senior schools as the cost of private is much higher than junior schools. Seems pointless to me as surely the most important education is secondary school. Oh well, that's keeping up with the Jones for you!
Originally posted by Kateg28quote:But if you are earning £25k which is above the current average according to couple of websites I quickly checked, it is not a struggle, it is utterly impossible.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
It's a struggle, but some things are worth the sacrifice, but then that's just my opinion. Personally, with the school on offer where we live, I wouldn't even consider it - so it was my only option
Reply ID 85071
quote:most remortgage or go cap in hand to the grandparents.
Originally posted by aubendquote:To send one child to a decent Private School (senior school that is, not junior) will set you back around £25k a year. I've no idea how so many people seem to be able to do it. One thing I have noticed is that a lot of people tend to send their kids to a private junior school (probably so they can show off their kids in caps and blazers in the back of their Range Rover Sports) but send them to state senior schools as the cost of private is much higher than junior schools. Seems pointless to me as surely the most important education is secondary school. Oh well, that's keeping up with the Jones for you!
Originally posted by Kateg28quote:But if you are earning £25k which is above the current average according to couple of websites I quickly checked, it is not a struggle, it is utterly impossible.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
It's a struggle, but some things are worth the sacrifice, but then that's just my opinion. Personally, with the school on offer where we live, I wouldn't even consider it - so it was my only option
Reply ID 85072
quote:I never understand what they think they'll gain by it, it's not as if their children will be any happier or well rounded as a result (except in the case of some special needs children). Better to spend the thousands on a good family holiday together. I knew the head of a private primary school, she sent her own children to the local state primary!
Originally posted by exiled_in_Readingquote:most remortgage or go cap in hand to the grandparents.
Originally posted by aubendquote:To send one child to a decent Private School (senior school that is, not junior) will set you back around £25k a year. I've no idea how so many people seem to be able to do it. One thing I have noticed is that a lot of people tend to send their kids to a private junior school (probably so they can show off their kids in caps and blazers in the back of their Range Rover Sports) but send them to state senior schools as the cost of private is much higher than junior schools. Seems pointless to me as surely the most important education is secondary school. Oh well, that's keeping up with the Jones for you!
Originally posted by Kateg28quote:But if you are earning £25k which is above the current average according to couple of websites I quickly checked, it is not a struggle, it is utterly impossible.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
It's a struggle, but some things are worth the sacrifice, but then that's just my opinion. Personally, with the school on offer where we live, I wouldn't even consider it - so it was my only option
Reply ID 85073
I don't think there's any doubt that a GOOD private school is better than a GOOD state school in the sense of facilities / sports / all round education (and chances of getting into a better university and job etc.). BUT an average / poor private school (and there are many) is no better than a good/excellent state school - and we have several around here. What I don't like is people that struggle to afford it (remortgage etc.) more for image than anything else.
Reply ID 85075
Speaking as someone who went to a private primary and secondary school I would only bother sending any children of mine to a private secondary school for their A levels. Assuming they are reasonably intelligent doing reasonably in their GCSES aint that hard, and its the A levels that really count. As to whether it makes any material difference, well thats a good point. What I do know is that one senior partner that I know at a law firm would only hire trainee solicitors if they had a private education. He also saw one applicant had done work experience at the Gradian newspaper from their CV. That particular CV got thrown in the bin 2 minutes after its review together with the comment "we dont want any of that here". Now, make of that sorry tale what you will, but prejudice is rife and life is a lottery....
Reply ID 85084
Lisa has asked me to post this on her behalf as she's having trouble registering with the forum (she won't be able to repsond via the forum so please email her directly). If your child is looking to start school in 2012 with no siblings in school and you are in the sg14 area you are likely to be affected. This is because of the unusually high numbers of siblings this year. The council are looking to expand 2 of these 3schools. Bengeo, Morgans and Hollybush. Bengeo is the outsider despite being the most popular to expand amongst parents and also the nearest of the three for majority of children affected. There is a very influential action group pushing for the expansion of Bengeo but unfortunately we need more people to step forward who want this expansions, to help us prove the need to the council. There is an very important council meeting next Friday at 10am am and the more affected parents we can get to prove the need the more likely a bengeo decision. The sg14 action group is meeting tonight with a few updates on the situation. If you have a child who is more than 200m from Mill Mead and 600m from Bengeo you are affected and at a very likely risk of not getting a place at either of these schools without an expansion. Join us tonight (Sunday 11th Dec) at the millstream at 8pm. Or email us at [email protected]
Reply ID 85085
quote:Admin is unaware of any such issues.
Originally posted by Montgomery
Lisa has asked me to post this on her behalf as she's having trouble registering with the forum (she won't be able to repsond via the forum so please email her directly).
Reply ID 85087
Admin - Lisa said she was having trouble registering with a hotmail address if that helps.
Reply ID 85088
aubend - i dont agree. It's all about the child not the school. an naturally gifted child will ultimately do well at a poor school because they'll shine once they hit uni. A child who is naturally good at school, and gets in with a good bunch of friends will be a successful person however good their school is. Especially if they go to uni - at the end of the day, the if they go to uni thats going to have far more effect than the school they go to.
Reply ID 85089
quote:[url]http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=3732[/url]
Originally posted by Montgomery
Admin - Lisa said she was having trouble registering with a hotmail address if that helps.
Reply ID 85095
Dear Aubend, both of my children have or still do attend a private prep school. Your generalizations for the rationale of this are quite amusing (i have never owned a chelsea tractor and can comfortably say never will). We chose the private route for our children after despairing at the lack of quality on show by the Headmaster at the state primary our eldest child attended for one year. That other people we know had similar problems at the school has only convinced us we were correct to do what we did. Our eldest child now attends a state secondary school. Why? Well yes there is the cost. £30k a year as opposed to £12k but also the secondary education around Hertford is mostly very good and the school our child goes to expects very high standards of work and behaviour. The Headteacher is very impressive.Our child passed the entrance exam to the local public school but we declined because in the end we didn't think it would be the best place for her. As to the argument is the money better spent early or late? I guess ask me again in 7 years time but my personal view that a small class size when the basic fundamentals are being taught is more important than later on. Snobbery on one side and envy on the other? Two sides of the same coin aren't they?
Reply ID 85096
Class sizes are important but I would rather have my child in a class of 30 with a gifted and inspirational teacher than a class of 19 with a teacher that does not meet their needs. You also get out of the education system what you put in. Too many parents sit back and expect the school to be the sole educators of their child and do not contribute themselves.
Reply ID 85097
Very true.
Reply ID 85098
That's us done for then. We are 0.4m from Millmead and 0.7m from Bengeo Primary. Looks like the little man won't be getting in to either..
quote:
Originally posted by Montgomery
Lisa has asked me to post this on her behalf as she's having trouble registering with the forum (she won't be able to repsond via the forum so please email her directly). If your child is looking to start school in 2012 with no siblings in school and you are in the sg14 area you are likely to be affected. This is because of the unusually high numbers of siblings this year. The council are looking to expand 2 of these 3schools. Bengeo, Morgans and Hollybush. Bengeo is the outsider despite being the most popular to expand amongst parents and also the nearest of the three for majority of children affected. There is a very influential action group pushing for the expansion of Bengeo but unfortunately we need more people to step forward who want this expansions, to help us prove the need to the council. There is an very important council meeting next Friday at 10am am and the more affected parents we can get to prove the need the more likely a bengeo decision. The sg14 action group is meeting tonight with a few updates on the situation. If you have a child who is more than 200m from Mill Mead and 600m from Bengeo you are affected and at a very likely risk of not getting a place at either of these schools without an expansion. Join us tonight (Sunday 11th Dec) at the millstream at 8pm. Or email us at [email protected]
Reply ID 85100
"If your child is looking to start school in 2012 with no siblings in school and you are in the sg14 area you are likely to be affected" So is there any truth to the "favoured SG13 postcode" that estate agents mention. Will you have a better chance of getting a 2012 place of your choice ?
Reply ID 85101
You may find the info available via the following link of interest. http://www.hertsdirect.org/your-council/civic_calendar/edskillcp/17245974
Reply ID 86299
The authority has spent years with their heads stuck firmly in the sand regarding this matter. Is it any surprise that residents are now impacted? And why do the council only act once the pain is felt. It is a shambles. The council should be ashamed at the way they have let the residents down so badly. http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/Hertford-parents-make-a-petition-to-County-Hall-08022012.htm
Reply ID 86300
THE FUTURE OF THE PINES PRIMARY SCHOOL Report of the Director of Children, Schools and Families Author: Lindsay Martin, Senior Manager - School Places 22nd January 2003 "One group of objections related to the increasing amount of housing being built east of Hertford and that there will be insufficient places on that side of the town. Our pupil number forecast has factored in all but the most recent housing proposals and demonstrates that there are adequate places within reasonable travelling distance of the children. Since the proposal was put forward, a small development on the police station site has been made public. If this development goes forward the 120 surplus places in the Hertford area would be sufficient for the additional children likely to be needing places." http://www.hertsdirect.org/statweb/compaperarchive/archive/older_meetings/Reports/104/510/8.pdf
Reply ID 86314
Blimey, I thought things were bad enough when my son didn't get a place at Wheatcroft a couple of years ago despite us being a 10 minute walk away up the hill. He wasn't even offered a school place in Hertford, but the next town of Ware. We turned down the place offered as the school offered was not as good as any of the Hertford ones at the time, sadly. If you turn down the school that the council want your child to go to you are then not eligible for the school bus so have to pay your own travel expenses. For us this meant having to buy another car and a round trip of 28 miles every day to drive my son to school. Yes the extra petrol costs a fortune each month, yes sitting in traffic is a pain in the .... sometimes and yes I would have loved to have been able to walk him to school much nearer. The good bits is that he is thriving at a village school with much smaller class sizes and he loves it and we love it too! It was a total nightmare at first but we got used to it and some of the village schools are excellent. I do think it is unfair though that we have to pay so much extra in travel expenses to get him to and from school. We are lucky that we can afford it but it would be a big extra expense for some people and I think the council should help these people out somehow, especially as they knew years ago that there would be a shortfall in places. I don't envy anyone that has to go through what we went through with trying to find a good enough school with places.
Reply ID 86315
Frazer.. Word for word your post explains exactly us! I wondered for a moment if my other half had posted it and we went through your situation to the fine detail. It was a very unsettling time for us all and i went through all of this with a newborn and it could have made me easily ill with all the stress. As it is now, we have to run two cars for the reason of getting to our village school, which is an unfair cost to us when we have a perfectly good school so close. It is such a pain to have to drive each day, 6 times per day once my youngest starts the nursery-IF he gets in! I am now wondering whether i know you [:)]
Reply ID 86860
The Educations and Skills Cabinet Panel are meeting today and a decision is due on which school to expand. There's some documentation available to learn ore about this issue at http://www.hertsdirect.org/your-council/civic_calendar/edskillcp/16973356
Reply ID 86861
That'll be an interesting situation, a Temporary solution for this years intake. I am pretty sure the 'cabins' at Wheatcroft School were a Temporary measure a few years ago, that today serve as classrooms! After the hell we went through i am hoping they don't loose sight for the sibling rule by the time our youngest starts, as i for one will not be doing two different school runs! The Pines School should never have shut, it should have merged and been nursery and key stage 1 (primary) whith Wheatcroft being the key stage 2 (junior) section. It saddens me that our immediate neighbours and friends within our small close, there are 5 families with children of school age 6-9 that attend 4 different schools, not by choice either!
Reply ID 86862
Perhaps long term planning is genuinely afoot. Perhaps the forecast is for a drop in the numbers of primary school children and maybe large scale development or even a new school is not necessary in the long term.
Reply ID 86866
quote:Does item 4 point 5.5 mean that Bengeo will be expanded?
Originally posted by Steve
The Educations and Skills Cabinet Panel are meeting today and a decision is due on which school to expand. There's some documentation available to learn ore about this issue at http://www.hertsdirect.org/your-council/civic_calendar/edskillcp/16973356
Reply ID 86867
quote:If my reading is correct then this is the recommendation, yes.
Originally posted by Georgie
Does item 4 point 5.5 mean that Bengeo will be expanded?
Reply ID 86869
Hello KKey1 We also have groups of children that all attend different schools in our cul de sac. I hope you eventually get a good outcome with your school choice. We are very lucky that all of the Hertford schools are good at the end of the day even if we do need to travel much further to get to one.
Reply ID 86871
quote:Not a total expansion as such (if I interpret it correctly), just 30 extra places in reception which then presumeably will roll through each year till the children in question reach yr6. In other words there will not be the same 30 extra places (at this stage anyway) available for the 2013 year.
Originally posted by Georgie Does item 4 point 5.5 mean that Bengeo will be expanded?
Reply ID 86873
quote:So it's to manage a specific requirement for one year. Can we find out what the forecast requirement is for each of the next five years?
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:Not a total expansion as such (if I interpret it correctly), just 30 extra places in reception which then presumeably will roll through each year till the children in question reach yr6. In other words there will not be the same 30 extra places (at this stage anyway) available for the 2013 year.
Originally posted by Georgie Does item 4 point 5.5 mean that Bengeo will be expanded?
Reply ID 86884
I see someone in the Mercury has suggested using the site of Cowbridge School. I had the same thought myself that something could maybe be done with it, though I suspect it is a financial problem that will stop it. It has been closed for 50 years or so but nothing has ever been done with it as I belive it has some sort of covenant on it that the site can only be used for education but I could of corse be wrong.
Reply ID 86887
quote:It is tiny............
Originally posted by Marilyn
I see someone in the Mercury has suggested using the site of Cowbridge School. I had the same thought myself that something could maybe be done with it, though I suspect it is a financial problem that will stop it. It has been closed for 50 years or so but nothing has ever been done with it as I belive it has some sort of covenant on it that the site can only be used for education but I could of corse be wrong.
Reply ID 86890
Yes it is but they are only adding one class to Bengeo I think? As I say probably not a feasable option but it seems a shame if it can only be used for education that something can't be done with it to ease the situation.
Reply ID 87344
Got our son's reception offer this evening at the school we wanted. Bengeo's extra places aren't being added until the continued interest stage.