Topic ID 5828
So it appears that despite having planning permission for a new shop front refused and no planning application for change of use those nice guys down at Gerry's Inc are advertising for staff for their new Costa in Maidenhead Street: http://www.hertford.net/blog/ Gerry's do seem somewhat confident of getting their franchise up and running though as they state that they currently have a Costa store operating in Hertford........... http://www.gerrys.com.pk/food-main.asp#offshore Oh......so that would be a lie then........nice. But running coffee shops is not their core service......in fact it would seem to be a rather strange diversification.......global aviation, holidays, freight and logistics, IT services........oh, and coffee shops. And ya gotta love their IT services division where they proudly boast "Where technology speaks your language".........well, clearly not because if it did they might realise that calling the company Gerry's Information Technology results in them using a rather unfortunate acronym in the UK. http://www.gerrys.net/ Perhaps I am being somewhat prematurely cynical of this company but I can't help feeling that this is another attempt to bulldoze through local planning.
Reply ID 79963
Ah - here you go again. I bet you will be in there buying your coffee soon enough once it's opened - just like all those other 'high horse' riders [:D]
Reply ID 79964
quote:Oh, yeah..........you're dead right on account that you know me personally......which, as far as I know you don't.........so quit making assumptions about me because if you did know me you would know I've never been inside Starbucks and have no intention of ever doing so because they p***ed all over local planning from a great height. Perhaps I'm making assumptions about Gerry's and Costa but if they wish to open a cafe in the Cole's premises and had any intention of applying for the neccessary change of use it would be logical to have applied by now.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
Ah - here you go again. I bet you will be in there buying your coffee soon enough once it's opened - just like all those other 'high horse' riders [:D]
Reply ID 79966
I am with Ewoowar on this, likewise I have never been in Starbucks and never will, I boycott them in other places as well on principle.
Reply ID 79969
I do not frequent Starbucks either but do know that those of us go frequent Caffe Nero do so knowing that they didn't apply for the changes to their windows until after they had carried out the works and been up and running for some time [;)]
Reply ID 79972
Guilty of visiting Nero's ....[:0]
Reply ID 79973
EWOOWAR....you really need to chill out. Grow your hair to your shoulders; fill yourself up with coffee and celebrate that regardless of planning issues someone in Hertford amy get a job.
Reply ID 79974
quote:Oh yes - can't get through a day without a double shot latte [;)]
Originally posted by Frenchie
Guilty of visiting Nero's ....[:0]
Reply ID 79975
quote:Ditto, but at least I can TASTE their coffee. Which is more than I can say for the wishy-washy muck served up in Starbucks
Originally posted by Frenchie
Guilty of visiting Nero's ....[:0]
Reply ID 79976
How does it compare to AK ?
Reply ID 79980
I've never been in Starbucks, I never will and I now don't use any of their places because of their actions in Hertford. Someone that thinks planning laws are there to be observed needs to chill? If they were planning suggestions or planning advice then maybe, but the clue is the word 'law'. Too many companies ignore the ones they don't like and use money, lawyers and influence to bypass regulations the rest of us mugs seem to take notice of.
Reply ID 79981
your boycots of Starbucks and Nero's because they flouted planning laws have had suh a detrimental impact on their business that a 3rd chain has had to come in to satisfy demand.
Reply ID 79982
Personally, and this a personal opinion, anyone who pays 2 quid for a cup of coffee is lining the proprietors walls, but each to their own. If you have the means, you will know doubt do it. We have Starbucks, Serendipity, Deja Vu, Nerro and now Costa due to arrive. I fail to see the attraction of paying a lot of money for a simple 'core fee' (say it that way and you will see the American module and then you might find the mug is possibly you). You buy a muffin or Danish pastry, bingo, they are quids in.
Reply ID 79984
quote:So if someone scrawled grafitti across the front of your house or scratched your car, twisted the aerial and windscreen wipers off it would be okay would it? Okay, so it's not a direct comparison.........but there are rules and laws in place for a reason. The planning regulations are intended to protect the integrity of the town. Other laws are there to protect other things. But if someone defaced your house should we say, "Hey, chill out man. Grow your hair." It depends what is important to you. If Costa/Gerry's are granted a change of use then let's go with it because those with the responsibility for the town and the ability to make the decisions have done so having given due neccessary consideration. I still may not be massively happy but I will know that due process may have been followed. However if they try to steamroll the change through without respect for local planning considerations then it says a lot about the company and that is not commendable regardless of how many local baristas may be employed.
Originally posted by tiger.1000
EWOOWAR....you really need to chill out. Grow your hair to your shoulders; fill yourself up with coffee and celebrate that regardless of planning issues someone in Hertford amy get a job.
Reply ID 79987
quote:You forgot the new Coffee shop soon to arrive in Sainsbury's and the new franchise in Hertford Theatre At what point will there be too many Coffee shops, from a personal point of view there are too many now.............I know we don't need empty shops but if all they are going to be seloing is coffee its not much better. Trouble is Costa wil no doubt go the same route as Starbucks and if they are turned down keep appealing so they are allowed to remain open until it gets overturned by a "higher" authority than the local one...
Originally posted by James007
Personally, and this a personal opinion, anyone who pays 2 quid for a cup of coffee is lining the proprietors walls, but each to their own. If you have the means, you will know doubt do it. We have Starbucks, Serendipity, Deja Vu, Nerro and now Costa due to arrive. I fail to see the attraction of paying a lot of money for a simple 'core fee' (say it that way and you will see the American module and then you might find the mug is possibly you). You buy a muffin or Danish pastry, bingo, they are quids in.
Reply ID 79988
How about we all give up overpriced warm brown water (I hesitate to call any of it coffee) for Lent?
Reply ID 79989
To be honest I'm just glad to see one of the shops in Maidenhead St is going to re open. That part of town really needs a face lift..
Reply ID 79993
I see that the shop fitters are working there this morning.
Reply ID 79994
quote:And Cafe Yum Yum.
Originally posted by Marilynquote:You forgot the new Coffee shop soon to arrive in Sainsbury's and the new franchise in Hertford Theatre
Originally posted by James007
Personally, and this a personal opinion, anyone who pays 2 quid for a cup of coffee is lining the proprietors walls, but each to their own. If you have the means, you will know doubt do it. We have Starbucks, Serendipity, Deja Vu, Nerro and now Costa due to arrive. I fail to see the attraction of paying a lot of money for a simple 'core fee' (say it that way and you will see the American module and then you might find the mug is possibly you). You buy a muffin or Danish pastry, bingo, they are quids in.
Reply ID 79995
Well said Bubbaoshea. This part of town has struggled for years. There is clearly demand for more coffee shops, which is why the business model for this one has been approved and has funding. Hopefully the unit between this one and Boots which is available to let will now be deemed more attractive as it will be located between two national multiples. [:)]
Reply ID 79996
quote:I absolutely agree that this part of the town needs some attention. But can anyone explain why Gerrys Inc have not yet applied for change of use (as far as I know)? Would I be seen as cynical to suggest that if they were confident of change of use being granted they would apply for such prior to commencing works and trading and that if they failed in their application it would be less justifiable to refit the shop and open? It's a pretty standard tactic though to fit the premises out and start trading without the neccessary planning permission. I know others have done so as well but it doesn't make it right.
Originally posted by Chalkie
Well said Bubbaoshea. This part of town has struggled for years. There is clearly demand for more coffee shops, which is why the business model for this one has been approved and has funding. Hopefully the unit between this one and Boots which is available to let will now be deemed more attractive as it will be located between two national multiples. [:)]
Reply ID 79997
quote:Im struggling to think of any current shop front along Maidenhead street that if even drastically changed would not make a massive improvement to the majority of what is already there. As far as I am aware the street has zero character and minimal appeal and is in need of a massive facelift.
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:I absolutely agree that this part of the town needs some attention. But can anyone explain why Gerrys Inc have not yet applied for change of use (as far as I know)? Would I be seen as cynical to suggest that if they were confident of change of use being granted they would apply for such prior to commencing works and trading and that if they failed in their application it would be less justifiable to refit the shop and open? It's a pretty standard tactic though to fit the premises out and start trading without the neccessary planning permission. I know others have done so as well but it doesn't make it right.
Originally posted by Chalkie
Well said Bubbaoshea. This part of town has struggled for years. There is clearly demand for more coffee shops, which is why the business model for this one has been approved and has funding. Hopefully the unit between this one and Boots which is available to let will now be deemed more attractive as it will be located between two national multiples. [:)]
Reply ID 79998
quote:The Allworths shop front is very old and has lots of character.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Im struggling to think of any current shop front along Maidenhead street that if even drastically changed would not make a massive improvement to the majority of what is already there. As far as I am aware the street has zero character and minimal appeal and is in need of a massive facelift.
Reply ID 79999
quote:Especially the automatic doors in to what used to be the music and dvd dept. [;)]
Originally posted by Stevequote:The Allworths shop front is very old and has lots of character.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Im struggling to think of any current shop front along Maidenhead street that if even drastically changed would not make a massive improvement to the majority of what is already there. As far as I am aware the street has zero character and minimal appeal and is in need of a massive facelift.
Reply ID 80000
I am a bit suprised by all this vitriol against the coffee shops. They are only there because people go to the,. If you don't like them, don't go to them and if that is the general consensus they will go out of business or disappear. As for paying £2 for a mug of coffee, I am not sure this is not actually reasonable value. I often buy a coffee with friends and sit and have a chat. It costs us £2 each for 45 minutes of sitting down and relaxing. Why is this so different from having a pint with a mate in a pub? I struggle in pubs sometimes as I am not a big drinker (and am often driving anyway) and get bored of a lot of the non alcoholic drinks. I am actually a tea drinker but I am very fussy with tea so normally have coffee when out cos I am not that bothered about it. I just like the sitting in a coffee shop and relaxing. By the way, had a coffee in The Snug yesterday evening and was very pleasant experience.
Reply ID 80001
Kateg28, I fully agree. Coffee shops in Hertford are operating successfully and I fail to see the major issue with them as a whole. There are other shops available to let, which are either currently vacant or occupied by temps. Therefore if they are other retailers that wish to come to Hertford, they can easily do so. The fact that most of the new entrants to the town are food and drink retailers, simply reflects consumer demand. I think the current developments taking place in Hertford are going to encourage new retailers to enter the town. [:)]
Reply ID 80002
quote:Not to mention the Cornish Pasty Shop in Maidenhead St, the place down by the post office (Alfies??) and even the Wetherspoons ...
Originally posted by Stevequote:And Cafe Yum Yum.
Originally posted by Marilynquote:You forgot the new Coffee shop soon to arrive in Sainsbury's and the new franchise in Hertford Theatre
Originally posted by James007
Personally, and this a personal opinion, anyone who pays 2 quid for a cup of coffee is lining the proprietors walls, but each to their own. If you have the means, you will know doubt do it. We have Starbucks, Serendipity, Deja Vu, Nerro and now Costa due to arrive. I fail to see the attraction of paying a lot of money for a simple 'core fee' (say it that way and you will see the American module and then you might find the mug is possibly you). You buy a muffin or Danish pastry, bingo, they are quids in.
Reply ID 80003
So, the major issue here is that they haven't followed the correct procedure? Personally I couldn't care less, I'd rather that and have the space in use than it sit there empty as it has done for years, Maidenhead St is a dump. Complaining about it here isn't going to do anything anyway, if you care that much then direct your focus where it might make a difference.
Reply ID 80004
quote:I have no issue with the type of shop but the attitude of the retailer. It is the blatant disregard for planning requirements that annoys me. I had some major work done on my house a few years ago and knew that I needed planning approval. I didn't ignore this requirement and just go ahead with the work regardless, I met with the planning department and my engineer/architect, discussed the works and achieved approval. If the nature of the high street is changing and more provision must be given towards coffee shops and other such retailers then the council are the ones who need to be influenced so that when the NECCESSARY change of use application is submitted it may be granted. The other annoying factor is that those who tend to get away with such behaviour tend to be the national chains who have a degree more clout.
Originally posted by Chalkie
Kateg28, I fully agree. Coffee shops in Hertford are operating successfully and I fail to see the major issue with them as a whole. There are other shops available to let, which are either currently vacant or occupied by temps. Therefore if they are other retailers that wish to come to Hertford, they can easily do so. The fact that most of the new entrants to the town are food and drink retailers, simply reflects consumer demand. I think the current developments taking place in Hertford are going to encourage new retailers to enter the town. [:)]
Reply ID 80005
quote:Ahem........never one to sit on my posterior and just belly ache on a public forum. Earlier this week I've already been in direct contact with Whitbread, the parent company of Costa Coffee and the regional GM for Gerry's Costa franchise.....who seems to be a decent bloke.
Originally posted by steven
So, the major issue here is that they haven't followed the correct procedure? Personally I couldn't care less, I'd rather that and have the space in use than it sit there empty as it has done for years, Maidenhead St is a dump. Complaining about it here isn't going to do anything anyway, if you care that much then direct your focus where it might make a difference.
Reply ID 80006
Admin......can we rename this thread? I'm more than happy to admit that at the moment I am merely assuming that they will not bother with submitting the change of use application and perhaps the title is a little unfair.
Reply ID 80007
quote:Just go to your opening post and click the Edit Topic icon (2nd from left)
Originally posted by Ewoowar
Admin......can we rename this thread?
Reply ID 80036
If I was Gerry's Inc I'd be seriously concerned as their shopfitters appear to be somewhat visually impaired. A parking attendant/traffic warden/whatever they're now called seemed to spend ages noting vehicle details and taking photos before placing a ticket on the van windscreen in clear view of the guys working inside the shop.
Reply ID 80038
Probably more cost effective to leave the van parked outside and get ticketed, rather than park further away and have to carry stuff from the van to the shop.
Reply ID 80039
Isn't this more of a reflection on the old fashioned out of date planning laws and the fact that money talks? .... All these companies are doing is exploiting the system by using expert lawyers to exploit the loop-holes in the laws ..... The council needs to relax the laws to save the financial future of the town.
Reply ID 80040
quote:The Council doesn't make the law, parliament does.
Originally posted by azzza
Isn't this more of a reflection on the old fashioned out of date planning laws and the fact that money talks? .... All these companies are doing is exploiting the system by using expert lawyers to exploit the loop-holes in the laws ..... The council needs to relax the laws to save the financial future of the town.
Reply ID 80041
quote:It's not neccessarily the laws that are wrong. There are policies and strategies that underpin them. The laws are the things that need to be adhered to but if the planning policies are wrong then they need to be challenged and changed..........not simply ignored.
Originally posted by azzza
Isn't this more of a reflection on the old fashioned out of date planning laws and the fact that money talks? .... All these companies are doing is exploiting the system by using expert lawyers to exploit the loop-holes in the laws ..... The council needs to relax the laws to save the financial future of the town.
Reply ID 80042
quote:Have you submitted the "Change of Name" application?
Originally posted by Ewoowar
Admin......can we rename this thread? I'm more than happy to admit that at the moment I am merely assuming that they will not bother with submitting the change of use application and perhaps the title is a little unfair.
Reply ID 80043
quote:Of course. There are restrictions on how long after making a post you can edit it, hence I asked Admin for permission before doing so. I admire your humour.........but ya can't catch me out with that one!
Originally posted by Joequote:Have you submitted the "Change of Name" application?
Originally posted by Ewoowar
Admin......can we rename this thread? I'm more than happy to admit that at the moment I am merely assuming that they will not bother with submitting the change of use application and perhaps the title is a little unfair.
Reply ID 80050
quote:I knew I wouldn't be the only one to notice this! I was about to post the heart-warming news as well... [:D]
Originally posted by Ewoowar
If I was Gerry's Inc I'd be seriously concerned as their shopfitters appear to be somewhat visually impaired. A parking attendant/traffic warden/whatever they're now called seemed to spend ages noting vehicle details and taking photos before placing a ticket on the van windscreen in clear view of the guys working inside the shop.
Reply ID 80101
The good folks at Gerry's.........namely, Francesco Arcadio who says he is the GM for their Costa Franchise responded immediately to an email nine days ago, stating that they would correct the oversight on their web site stating that they had a Costa in Hertford already. I then asked about their apparent decision to not apply for change of use for the premisies prior to opening...... Ta daaaaaaaaa! No response. Quick as a flash...............nothing happened. Francesco can be found hiding behind the following address: [email protected] Whitbread can be contacted at the following: [email protected]
Reply ID 80555
I suspect that Gerrys Inc have not applied for change of use because they know full well they do not have to. The local Hertford planning rules are a mess and they mean that viable businesses are not able to use empty units because of some grand plan involving "Prime Retail" Planning laws set by the government allow for greater flexibility, although the disadvantage is that you need to have the patience and money to follow the process to the bitter end and most individuals/small businesses will fall at the first hurdle. The unit in Maidenhead street doesn't need change of use yet as it is not trading and there is a legal grey area as to the classification of coffee shops anyway.
Reply ID 80566
quote:Yes it does. A3/5 use (takeaway/restaurant) needs change of use.
Originally posted by jez_p
I suspect that Gerrys Inc have not applied for change of use because they know full well they do not have to. The local Hertford planning rules are a mess and they mean that viable businesses are not able to use empty units because of some grand plan involving "Prime Retail" Planning laws set by the government allow for greater flexibility, although the disadvantage is that you need to have the patience and money to follow the process to the bitter end and most individuals/small businesses will fall at the first hurdle. The unit in Maidenhead street doesn't need change of use yet as it is not trading and there is a legal grey area as to the classification of coffee shops anyway.
Reply ID 80567
quote:Gerry claims most of the business will be takeaway so there's no need for change of use from A1 Retail.
Originally posted by James007quote:Yes it does. A3/5 use (takeaway/restaurant) needs change of use.
Originally posted by jez_p
I suspect that Gerrys Inc have not applied for change of use because they know full well they do not have to. The local Hertford planning rules are a mess and they mean that viable businesses are not able to use empty units because of some grand plan involving "Prime Retail" Planning laws set by the government allow for greater flexibility, although the disadvantage is that you need to have the patience and money to follow the process to the bitter end and most individuals/small businesses will fall at the first hurdle. The unit in Maidenhead street doesn't need change of use yet as it is not trading and there is a legal grey area as to the classification of coffee shops anyway.
Reply ID 80592
A3 class relates to food and drink consumed on the premises. As the premises holds A1 at the moment, a change of use should be required under planning law. see here: [url="http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/changeofuse/"]Change of use[/url]
Reply ID 80594
From your link james007 Do you need permissionCommon ProjectsChange of Use Change of Use Planning Permission Use Classes The Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) Order 1987 ... The following list gives an indication of the types of use which may fall within each use class. ... A1 Shops - Shops, ....... and internet cafes. Is this the loop hole? Offer WiFi, serve food and beverages to qualify the business as an internet cafe.
Reply ID 80595
quote:I think it is quite clear; under the law set out by the government, A1 to A3 requires change of use due to consumption of food and drink on the premises which retail (A1) does not permit.
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
From your link james077 Do you need permissionCommon ProjectsChange of Use Change of Use Planning Permission Use Classes The Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) Order 1987 ... The following list gives an indication of the types of use which may fall within each use class. ... A1 Shops - Shops, ....... and internet cafes. Is this the loop hole? Offer WiFi, serve food and beverages to qualify the business as an internet cafe.
Reply ID 80600
I think it is quite clear; under the law set out by the government, A1 to A3 requires change of use due to consumption of food and drink on the premises which retail (A1) does not permit. If we accept that your link is an accurate representation of the law then, it is at least arguable, if not self evident, that food and drink are consumed on the premises of an internet cafe, which is A1 retail. We can then debate the definition of an internet cafe and whether Costa coffee, Starbucks etc fit the description. It is possible that we could agree that they are not, by the strictest definition an internet cafe because the primary business is not providing internet services. But to what meaningful extent is an internet cafe different to a cafe with internet? Different enough to refuse a change of use application perhaps, but different enough to reasonably refuse a retrospective application, perhaps not?
Reply ID 80601
quote:The premises is currently classed as A1 and does not have A3 or A5 use class. To enable people to purchase and consume drink or food in or out of the premises will require a change of use. The link I posted is government law. Decide whether it is right or wrong but it is going to be a cafe, which by definition, is place for people to dine, drink beverages and eat. Internet cafe it is not; wi-fi should not exclude it from being anything other than a place where one can eat in or takeaway. A5 it is in my eyes.
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
I think it is quite clear; under the law set out by the government, A1 to A3 requires change of use due to consumption of food and drink on the premises which retail (A1) does not permit. If we accept that your link is an accurate representation of the law then, it is at least arguable, if not self evident, that food and drink are consumed on the premises of an internet cafe, which is A1 retail. We can then debate the definition of an internet cafe and whether Costa coffee, Starbucks etc fit the description. It is possible that we could agree that they are not, by the strictest definition an internet cafe because the primary business is not providing internet services. But to what meaningful extent is an internet cafe different to a cafe with internet? Different enough to refuse a change of use application perhaps, but different enough to reasonably refuse a retrospective application, perhaps not?
Reply ID 80609
Well it opens on thursday anyway..
Reply ID 80635
quote:...and the dark maroon house colour and dark wooden fittings really cheer up this shady side of Maidenhead Street...
Originally posted by codek2
Well it opens on thursday anyway..
Reply ID 80637
surely it's better than it being boarded up or left with the lights out waiting for the friday night yobs to brick the windows?
Reply ID 80640
quote:Unfortunately some goon will still brick the window even though the premises is no longer empty.
Originally posted by thefair1973
surely it's better than it being boarded up or left with the lights out waiting for the friday night yobs to brick the windows?
Reply ID 80711
Looking at the blog on this site, it states that "The franchised outlet seats 20" which should automatically trigger A3 use in the link that I posted above. According to the link, Costa Coffee has not applied for A3 use (restaurant). It will be interesting to see what the planners decide to do with this; ie; the Raj on Ware Road, Paddyfields in St Andrew Street and Lussmans in Fore Street are all restaurants that can seat about the same amount of people as Costa Coffee. Before people say that Costa Coffee don't sell hot food for consumption on the premises, take a look at all the pages, particularly pages 6 and 7 of this: [url="http://www.costa.co.uk/pdf/food_nutrition.pdf"]Costa Coffee menu[/url] It is a restaurant and takeaway all the way.
Reply ID 80716
Personally, I think that Hertford has enough independent coffee shops to make it really simple to avoid these chains that bully their way into our town. Serendipity (who also run the theatre bar), Cafe Yum, the little tea shop in St Andrew's Street and several others are all locally owned and run. Use the local businesses!
Reply ID 80720
It's a business filling an otherwise empty premises, which can't be bad, can it? The frontage is not significantly different to the Cole's dark red and glass front. If Hertford does not need another chain coffee shop then the franchise owner will close down the business and perhaps try elsewhere. It seems to me that Hertford can support endless coffee shops, chain restaurants, hairdressers and bars but not independent shops. Despite what people say they want, the reality seems to be that the customer base isn't there for small independents to survive.
Reply ID 80721
Are Gerry's really basing their lack of application for change of use on the fact that most of their sales will be retail and therefore no change is required? If so, then why do other Costa francisees go through the correct route? http://www.midhurstandpetworth.co.uk/news/local/costa_coffee_brews_up_fresh_plan_to_open_in_midhurst_1_2467977 http://www.midhurstandpetworth.co.uk/news/local/costa_coffee_brews_up_fresh_plan_to_open_in_midhurst_1_2467977 http://www.midhurstandpetworth.co.uk/news/local/costa_coffee_brews_up_fresh_plan_to_open_in_midhurst_1_2467977 http://www.midhurstandpetworth.co.uk/news/local/costa_coffee_brews_up_fresh_plan_to_open_in_midhurst_1_2467977 The list could go on.......but interestingly it would seem that the Costa Gerry's opened in Towcester did so with an application for change of use. Why is Hertford different?
Reply ID 80722
Hertford needs chain shops to fill the empty premises that are scattered all over town. After all no local independent is going to be able to afford the high rates. Bring on Costa (not that i will use them), Next, Gap, River Island etal as I'd rather see shops filled that empty with billboards all over them...
Reply ID 80723
quote:I think it is good that otherwise empty premises are filled with a viable business employing local people. My gripe is with large organisations ignoring local planning. Gerry's are no fools. They know that once they have opened and employed local people there is less likelihood of any future submission of a 'change of use' application being rejected. And even if it was rejected they have more chance of succeeding with an appeal. I'm not suggesting for one minute that any such application would definitely be rejected. I don't know what would happen. But the whole underhand and arrogant manner in which they approach the cafe opening leaves a taste in my mouth far more bitter than a quadruple shot americano.
Originally posted by 2929paul
It's a business filling an otherwise empty premises, which can't be bad, can it? The frontage is not significantly different to the Cole's dark red and glass front. If Hertford does not need another chain coffee shop then the franchise owner will close down the business and perhaps try elsewhere. It seems to me that Hertford can support endless coffee shops, chain restaurants, hairdressers and bars but not independent shops. Despite what people say they want, the reality seems to be that the customer base isn't there for small independents to survive.
Reply ID 80724
I don't know why we need coffee shops, hasn't anyone heard of nescafe and a kettle? I live in Spain and that's the only coffee I drink. Won't touch the stuff that comes from the machines in bars as it's too hot and either too strong or too weak.
Reply ID 80726
[xx(]
Reply ID 80728
quote:¿Been drinking Costa Coffee Steve?
Originally posted by Steve
[xx(]
Reply ID 80729
quote:I don't know why we need shoe shops. I fashioned some clogs from the branches of the willow tree that was recently pollarded just down the road from me.
Originally posted by Joe
I don't know why we need coffee shops, hasn't anyone heard of nescafe and a kettle? I live in Spain and that's the only coffee I drink. Won't touch the stuff that comes from the machines in bars as it's too hot and either too strong or too weak.
Reply ID 80743
Does anyone have any ideas of what could be a viable alternative to a coffee shop (or nail bar, hairdressers, etc)? Personally I'm quite happy to see an empty shop being used, regardless of what purpose it serves: A used unit provides a service to the local community. Inevitably there will be people that use it even if you don't. A used unit needs staff, an empty unit definitely does not. A young person might find a part-time job at a coffee shop helps them stay on at School, College or University. A used unit improves the aesthetics of the town centre. We might disagree on the precise look of a shop, but surely it's better not to have the place looking like a ghost town? I don't regularly use Nero or Starbucks and likely won't be using Costa either, but that doesn't mean I'd prefer to see any of those units empty. -Kerr
Reply ID 80749
Dirty tactics already in play at Costa - they are telling customers that Nero is closing down!!
Reply ID 80754
quote:Do you mean the staff?
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
Dirty tactics already in play at Costa - they are telling customers that Nero is closing down!!
Reply ID 80766
yes
Reply ID 80772
Good question regarding what sort of shops would you like in town. Lets be honest, Hertford is a bit of a pickle at the moment. We did and do have some lovely unique shops ie: Sugar smith, a cook shop (when lots have closed down) and a computer hardwear/software repair type shop, but some of the more niche places have disappeared (Starfish, Farrow and Farrow).. What Hertford needs is footfall, people shopping for items in the town instead of this T'internet all the time! What we appear to be saying is less grooming and more consumables please.. so in order for that to work we have buy our goods.. I think that people forget that although some would consider us an affluent town, we have a lot of people struggling and losing jobs and we need to try to cater for all.. I don't honestly know the answer, but I can only drink some many skinny latte's in one year!!!!
Reply ID 80780
Went into Costa this afternoon. Had a lovely cuppa and read of the paper. Staff were very friendly. Will be going in again soon.
Reply ID 90703
Apparently, [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-20079092"]it is possible[/url] to stop Costa...
Reply ID 90704
Can we stop Starbucks though?
Reply ID 90706
just don't go in Starbucks.
Reply ID 90715
quote:Nobody stopped them, in fact the vocal locals lost because permission was granted and they could have gone ahead with it. It's all fortunately timed PR.
Originally posted by newcomer
Apparently, [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-20079092"]it is possible[/url] to stop Costa...
Reply ID 90742
Costa pay their taxes. Starbucks don't. Nuff said.