Topic ID 5798
I was on foot yesterday and took a short cut through Bluecoats (opposite the bus stop outside Tesco) to get to Fore Street to go to M&S and was stopped by a resident who said that the area was "not for public access unless you live or work here". I had already seen a woman in the distance who was stopped as well and turned on her heels. Today, I have seen a sign on a lamp post with the same "not for public access" statement, which looks new. Is Bluecoats out of bounds now for public access?
Reply ID 79581
People have been using it for access for so long now that the only way they are going to stop them will be gates (or the residents carrying out 24 hr border patrols[:)]) I alsowonder what harm people are doing walking through such an open area anyway?
Reply ID 79582
I would have told her to get stuffed myself to be honest if you were doing no harm. What the residents do not understand is that taking a point with people in this way will inevitably result in their cars getting keyed or similar. Unfortunate, but true.
Reply ID 79584
Thought a 'no public right of way' sign had been there a while. Theres certainly one showing on Streetview. Still, a quick scan of these forums will demonstrate the local populace reluctance to obey signs. [;)] If challenged on the rare occasions I walk through I will claim I'm a new resident - its up to them to prove otherwise.
Reply ID 79586
I seem to recall that access to the town centre was a condition of Tesco's planning approval many years ago. In fact I remember a sign close to the bus stop indicating the route to the town centre as being through Bluecoats.
Reply ID 79587
quote:And I suppose they would had you think that the tourist information board in the middle is just for the residents too?! [;)]
Originally posted by Steve
I seem to recall that access to the town centre was a condition of Tesco's planning approval many years ago. In fact I remember a sign close to the bus stop indicating the route to the town centre as being through Bluecoats.
Reply ID 79588
Well I'm not too sure when the street view photo on Google Earth was taken but there is a sign on the lamp post, under the sign warning that vehicles will be clamped, that says "No public right of way". [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/moneysense/GENERAL/nprow.jpg[/IMG] Edited to add. The photo is from 2009. Just managed to make out the water mark.
Reply ID 79589
There has been a sign up saying no right of way for years; but like most people I've alawys ignored it and assumed it was an old sign that was a hangover pre Tesco. I'll continue usuing the route!
Reply ID 79590
I assumed the sign referred to traffic not pedestrians. Doesn't it become automatic after a number of years anyway? I am probably got confused on this.
Reply ID 79591
quote:It was - I believe it was one of the conditions.
Originally posted by Steve
I seem to recall that access to the town centre was a condition of Tesco's planning approval many years ago. In fact I remember a sign close to the bus stop indicating the route to the town centre as being through Bluecoats.
Reply ID 79598
Limited access to the town from the Tesco store was cited as a reason in the refusal for planning permission recently submitted by Tesco. It was stated: "The applicants have not addressed the potential uncertainty that the footpath access through Bluecoats is across private land and not an established public right of way nor designed to facilitate pedestrian movement. There are planning reasons to protect this important link but the applicant has not proposed to show what can be done." However I think it is odd if the new sign does say "not for public access" as opposed to "no public right of way".
Reply ID 79599
There are indeed signs. One outside Tesco, indicating the route through Bluecoats; and one actually in Bluecoats. [img]../images/forum/town-centre-shops-sign1.jpg[/img] [img]../images/forum/town-centre-shops-sign2.jpg[/img]
Reply ID 79610
I think that "No Right of Way" and "No Public Access" are two different things. The "No Right of Way" signs do not prevent public access, but just indicate that the public have no automatic right to cross the property, but don't prohibit it. I am not sure of the legality of "No public Access" when it has become an established pedestrian route. And, who erected the signs. I could put up a sign saying "No public Access" along my road, but it wouldn't have any legality.
Reply ID 79612
Sorry for misleading everyone, I have just re-read the sign and correctly, as has been stated and shown, it says 'NO PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY'. I must be getting old, it's amazing what a few hours can do. Anyway, I am still confused as to why the lady appeared and started her rant. I'll happily take another route as I only use it as a short cut.
Reply ID 79614
Am I right in thinking that according to the signs you cannot take your empty shopping bag to Tesco from the town but you can you can bring the full one back? Despite the Tesco sign pointing to the town via Bluecoats is there a sign at the Tesco end of Bluecoats stating no public right of way?
Reply ID 79621
No. That is not the case. Please see my post above re "Right of Way"
Reply ID 79624
quote:Yes. See photo and comment posted earlier by Joe.
Originally posted by Eyeone
Despite the Tesco sign pointing to the town via Bluecoats is there a sign at the Tesco end of Bluecoats stating no public right of way?
Reply ID 79629
This from wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_of_way_in_England_and_Wales "In England and Wales, public rights of way are paths on which the public have a legally protected right to pass and re-pass." Now my question is does it mean that NO public right of way = no legally protected right to pass and re-pass but you CAN still pass, or does it make it completly illegal to use that path?
Reply ID 79630
I can't see how they will ever stop people unless thier is a physical barrier, even then they would probably jump over it! There is a similar sign outside the shop at the end of the alley to the post ofice, at least there used to be but everyone cuts the corner anyway!
Reply ID 79631
quote:Just street viewed on google earth and didn't see a sign there, well back in 2009 according to the watermark on the photo. I am assuming you mean the corner of the "Talbot arms"/post office alleyway?
Originally posted by Marilyn
I can't see how they will ever stop people unless thier is a physical barrier, even then they would probably jump over it! There is a similar sign outside the shop at the end of the alley to the post ofice, at least there used to be but everyone cuts the corner anyway!
Reply ID 79632
quote:It is perfectly legal to use that path. When a person/company/organisation or whatever owns the land over which people pass and repass, and wishes to protect their ownership of that land, they may erect signs indicating that the public have no absolute right to use it, unlike a highway, where people do have an absolute right to pass and repass. It also allows them, if they so wish, to shut off the land to public access. In London, there are Inns of Court, such as The Temple which is privately owned. I used to work there, and, Middle Temple Lane runs between the Embankment and Fleet Street and, unless things have changed, is used daily by hundreds of members of the public as a cut through. Once a year the gates are closed to maintain the fact that it is not a right of way
Originally posted by Joe
This from wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_of_way_in_England_and_Wales "In England and Wales, public rights of way are paths on which the public have a legally protected right to pass and re-pass." Now my question is does it mean that NO public right of way = no legally protected right to pass and re-pass but you CAN still pass, or does it make it completly illegal to use that path?
Reply ID 79633
quote:Many years ago, I worked at Kensington Palace Gardens and an alley connecting through to the Israeli Embassy was similarly closed once a year, which was always Christmas Day in order to minimise disruption whilst maintaining the land ownership rights.
Originally posted by buzz
[quote] Once a year the gates are closed to maintain the fact that it is not a right of way
Reply ID 79637
So do we have a lone resident trying to stop the public passing through His/Hers ‘Property’?
Reply ID 79638
Sure looks like it. The question to ask them next time is "Do you own ALL of Bluecoats?"
Reply ID 79640
As I was walking through there a few days ago (unchallenged) I did notice some broken glass that looked like it had contained alcohol - I was wondering if there is a recent problem with kids/winos that some of the residents are trying to resolve? If this is the case they are going the wrong way about it but may explains some of their recent behaviours.
Reply ID 79641
Seeing the chain on the pump in Steve's earlier photo then they probably have been having problems. Maybe there is residents association and the person who challenged James is a representative of the association.
Reply ID 79642
As the signs appear to give conflicting information I.e. ‘Town centre shops’, No public right of way’ I wonder which was erected first and if its legality (if any) takes precedence over the latter one. If, as stated here, access to the town was part of the Tesco planning permission then who erected the ‘No right of way’ when & why?
Reply ID 79657
I have walked through Bluecoats for all the time since the school was closed and when Tesco first opened. I will NOT be walking out of my way and on any given hour several hundred people must walk through the area... I think its a cheek. Bit like people who buy a property next to a pub and moan that its noisy at chucking out time! I am going to continue to walk through if I like and really think that in this world of mass unemployment etc, etc, there must be better things to get hung up about in hertford!
Reply ID 79662
Walked through there today with Mrs W, I was most disappointed not to be yelled at.
Reply ID 79677
Perhaps the resident has realised he or she has bitten off more than they can chew.
Reply ID 79683
quote:Perhaps they are a Forum member.[:)]
Originally posted by Eyeone
Perhaps the resident has realised he or she has bitten off more than they can chew.
Reply ID 79806
Maybe they had a go at the wrong person and that person gave them a slap!
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