Topic ID 5604
I see in the mercury there is a building for sale with planning permission for development into 2 shops and flats. I think it must be those that were Twisted Rio and The Bouquet with the flat above and outbuildings. Hopefully someone can afford to do the work and improve the look of that part of the town.
Reply ID 77835
I just hope they have the right planning permission as they are Grade 2 listed buildings http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-461535-10-16-hertford Don't want a repeat of the "Over the Moon"/"Castle Food & Booze" saga!
Reply ID 77836
quote:They will have what they need and advise any buyers if they need anything else I am sure as they have owned the property for 60 odd years and know all about its listed status from the changes they made over the years.
Originally posted by Joe
I just hope they have the right planning permission as they are Grade 2 listed buildings http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-461535-10-16-hertford Don't want a repeat of the "Over the Moon"/"Castle Food & Booze" saga!
Reply ID 77949
quote:What is all the fuss about? - it is not as if the old shop frontage was original or any worse than what is there now [img]http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-461535-10-16-hertford [img]http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-461535-10-16-hertford
Originally posted by Joe
I just hope they have the right planning permission as they are Grade 2 listed buildings http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-461535-10-16-hertford Don't want a repeat of the "Over the Moon"/"Castle Food & Booze" saga!
Reply ID 77955
quote:It not what they have done but they way they did it. The building is listed so they should have got permission first.
Originally posted by jez_pquote:What is all the fuss about? - it is not as if the old shop frontage was original or any worse than what is there now [img]http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-461535-10-16-hertford [img]http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-461535-10-16-hertford
Originally posted by Joe
I just hope they have the right planning permission as they are Grade 2 listed buildings http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-461535-10-16-hertford Don't want a repeat of the "Over the Moon"/"Castle Food & Booze" saga!
Reply ID 77959
quote:I disagree !...The thin modern red red metal frame looks awful over the thicker upright woooden posts & I dont like the fact that the porch style entrance is removed. To me its similar to removing a houses original sash windows and replacing with UPVC windows that dont even try to look like sash windows....
Originally posted by jez_pquote:What is all the fuss about? - it is not as if the old shop frontage was original or any worse than what is there now [img]http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-461535-10-16-hertford [img]http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-461535-10-16-hertford
Originally posted by Joe
I just hope they have the right planning permission as they are Grade 2 listed buildings http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-461535-10-16-hertford Don't want a repeat of the "Over the Moon"/"Castle Food & Booze" saga!
Reply ID 77960
I have a feeling that they all had porch style entrances at one time, I am sure The Bouquet had to have it that way when they had a new shop front, but not sure if that should still be the case.................we will have to wait and see what the planners decide.
Reply ID 77961
quote:As yet, no planning application has been registered.
Originally posted by Marilyn
I have a feeling that they all had porch style entrances at one time, I am sure The Bouquet had to have it that way when they had a new shop front, but not sure if that should still be the case.................we will have to wait and see what the planners decide.
Reply ID 77964
quote:Thats interesting as they do know, the planning offier has been in I know when they first did it so they will no doubt be on the case. At least I hope they will.
Originally posted by Stevequote:As yet, no planning application has been registered.
Originally posted by Marilyn
I have a feeling that they all had porch style entrances at one time, I am sure The Bouquet had to have it that way when they had a new shop front, but not sure if that should still be the case.................we will have to wait and see what the planners decide.
Reply ID 77966
I don't know how long they have to wait before they can take enforcement action. Cafe Yum have only just put in a retrospective application for change of use and they've been open for 9 months.
Reply ID 79019
I see in today Mercury that things are on going with "Castle food and wine" and the planners just shows how long it takes!
Reply ID 79021
Missed that sorry Steve. I think it is in the paper as the contol commitee gave their opinions.
Reply ID 79042
It’s reported in the Mercury this week that the owner said he had replace the shop front because it was disintegrating and that he would return it to a wooden structure in the near future. Why did he not do that to start with instead of vandalizing a listed structure and then waiting until the planning department caught up with him[?]
Reply ID 79044
quote:Note the word "owner". There is a lot to be said about the owners of some of the premises in this town. Greedy fat cats who turn a blind eye to how their own property is being decimated. I dread to think of what will happen next to this building. Ask yourself this question. Would you as the owner of a listed house, rent it out to tenants who then change the fabrication and facia of the building without your permission? I wouldn't. So why is the owner not being prosecuted for allowing this to happen when the lease was drawn up and signed by both parties?
Originally posted by Eyeone
It’s reported in the Mercury this week that the owner said he had replace the shop front because it was disintegrating and that he would return it to a wooden structure in the near future. Why did he not do that to start with instead of vandalizing a listed structure and then waiting until the planning department caught up with him[?]
Reply ID 79045
As you say James, it was the owner. It had occurred to me he was only interested in getting a paying tenant in to the premises and allowing the said tenant to do what ever he wanted in order to accommodate him. I wonder if the new wooden frontage (if and when it happens) will be an exact reproduction of the original[?]
Reply ID 79046
quote:Which says to me that the owner of the building doesn't give a sh*t about the fabric of the building and the heritage of the town. I am sure there are several town centre property owners in Hertford who read this forum and haven't got the guts to explain why these things actually happen. I can't remember any time when a property owner/landlord prosecuted someone for destroying the external facia of a building. I am aware of a few property owners who don't know and give a sh*t about Hertford or it's history, and I know of some property owners who do care. Nevertheless, the actual owner needs to be taken to task over allowing this to happen as it wasn't done over night, or on a Sunday, this took weeks. Does anyone know who the owner is?
Originally posted by Eyeone
As you say James, it was the owner. It had occurred to me he was only interested in getting a paying tenant in to the premises and allowing the said tenant to do what ever he wanted in order to accommodate him. I wonder if the new wooden frontage (if and when it happens) will be an exact reproduction of the original[?]
Reply ID 79047
The Mercury Quotes him as Murat Kale.
Reply ID 79049
quote:I know the owner of the shop is Murat Kale, I read that. I am referring to the owner of the building as a whole, not the business. (I need a cold bath) [:)]
Originally posted by Eyeone
The Mercury Quotes him as Murat Kale.
Reply ID 79175
I passed through the Wash this morning. I’m sure a caught a glimpse of a sold sign in window of the empty shop next to Subway. I don’t think it was there yesterday. Anybody else seen it[?]
Reply ID 79176
quote:Yes, the sign was up last week. Withers Thomas as I recall. See the opening post of this thread.
Originally posted by Eyeone
I passed through the Wash this morning. I’m sure a caught a glimpse of a sold sign in window of the empty shop next to Subway. I don’t think it was there yesterday. Anybody else seen it[?]
Reply ID 79177
Thanks Steve. I did not pass it last week and yesterday I was probably more concerned about where I could buy a cup of coffee or get my nails done while in the town[:D]
Reply ID 81232
I walked past Castle Food and Wine this weekend and it reminded me how dreadful the shop front looks like; a real shame, especially since it's opposite the Hertford Theatre and will be one of the first things that visitors to the town see. Does anyone know if any enforcement action is being taken and/or how this is progressing? Sadly, it really does look like something out of Hackney! :(
Reply ID 81237
I'm amazed they can operate with such tight access in the aisles too.
Reply ID 81293
quote:I doubt it - The original fronatge was probably more like a front door and two big windows - I am pretty sure the "Nice Wooden Windows" everybody is complaining about were installed retrospectively in a similar piece of changing an old building to make it suitable for purpose. Right, I am off to curl up in my Neolithic Cave before somebody knocks it down to build a modern centrally heated house with running water. Anybody know how I can get the place listed?
Originally posted by Eyeone
I wonder if the new wooden frontage (if and when it happens) will be an exact reproduction of the original[?]
Reply ID 81299
quote:So you would be happy if we had no Castle, no old buildings and were clone town like Harlow? Change is fine as long as it is done with permission and is not detrimental (sp), do you really think that what it looks like now is an improvement? I will grant you it would look worse if is was an empty shop covered in graffiti but it is a listed building and the owner of both the building and business must realise that.
Originally posted by jez_p I doubt it - The original fronatge was probably more like a front door and two big windows - I am pretty sure the "Nice Wooden Windows" everybody is complaining about were installed retrospectively in a similar piece of changing an old building to make it suitable for purpose. Right, I am off to curl up in my Neolithic Cave before somebody knocks it down to build a modern centrally heated house with running water. Anybody know how I can get the place listed?
Reply ID 83520
quote:It is. I noticed them putting it in yesterday evening.
Originally posted by Eyeone
I wonder if the new wooden frontage (if and when it happens) will be an exact reproduction of the original[?]
Reply ID 89297
Popped in here on Saturday and went to purchase 3 big bottles of water and 4 ice lollies, it came to £8.85. When I got to the till the chap said they charge 50p for any transaction under £10, paying with a card. I didnt have any cash with me and bearing in mind the huge mark-ups on the items what i was buying (no problems with that), can he waiver the fee ? He declined, so I said I thought it was excessive and left. I wondered up to The Grapevine(?) opposite The Blackbirds and bought the exact same items at a similar price with my card, no problem. Now I know there is costs associated with retailers taking cards but it just seemed really bad business sense to me. Am I wrong
Reply ID 89298
No you are not
Reply ID 89303
There is a cash machine 50 ft away around the corner. I have been in the same situation and just went to get the cash instead.
Reply ID 89306
When I had the Art Shop our charges for accepting credit/debit cards were c£1500 pa. At the end of the day this becomes another figure on your P and L chart along with rent, rates, wages etc. I always thought that it would be good to say 'cash' only, but that, too, is a cost... i.e. the banks charge you for depositing cash with them too, so in reality accepting any kind of tranaction for a retail outlet comes with a price to the retailer. Whether you choose to recoup this by adding an extra charge is open to debate, but I always felt that anything that puts a 'barrier' in between you and the customer was wrong... I always used to get cross when dear old IKEA did it, and that was even after spending 70 quid or so on a new set of bookshelves. At the end of the day, the cashless society is a fact of life and some costs to retailers just have to be absorbed by them (imho.)
Reply ID 89316
You hightlight some interesting points there Arty. I wonder if one of the advantages of a local currency, such as the Lewes pound, is reduced transaction costs for retailers? Have there ever been suggestions for a similar scheme for Hertford and environs?
Reply ID 89329
I've found this store an absolute boon. The staff are friendly, helpful and take into account local demand in stocking the shop. They are also hot on demanding IDs too, which is refreshing. The Grapevine, having increased it's range to compete and the opening of Sainsbury must be hitting them hard though. For a lot of people they are no longer the closest place to buy a jar of coffee or a pint of milk at 9pm. The changes to the frontage were for security and to get round a dangerous step and flooding problem, caused when the pavement was raised some years ago. They spent a lot doing it. They simply didn't realise there was an planning issue. A costly mistake and putting it back as demanded means they have to live with the step and the wet floor when it rains hard and had no budget left. I think the aesthetic improvement of a recessed door is minimal compared to the ergonomic awkwardness it causes and despite all the fuss, still no-one has demolished the civic eyesore opposite! I cannot imagine why anyone would use a card under a tenner, unless online. It just causes extra admin and a delay for whoever is behind in the queue. The charges for the retailer increase costs for everyone else and for small transactions, I think it's quite reasonable for the person wishing to use the facility to pay for it. I want to pay for what I'm buying, not another person's method of paying.
Reply ID 89331
quote:Ignorance is no excuse. One would hope that any business opening in the town had done it's homework before embarking on a potentially time-consuming and costly venture.
Originally posted by shunt
They simply didn't realise there was an planning issue.
quote:If a business offers a choice of payment options then customers are at liberty to use them. You may not understand why or approve but it's a free country. Whilst we're about it, are there any other business overheads you'd like to pick and choose not to be included in the price of your purchase? [:o)]
I cannot imagine why anyone would use a card under a tenner, unless online. It just causes extra admin and a delay for whoever is behind in the queue. The charges for the retailer increase costs for everyone else and for small transactions, I think it's quite reasonable for the person wishing to use the facility to pay for it. I want to pay for what I'm buying, not another person's method of paying.
Reply ID 89333
quote:On issue one, I agree. However, I can see how the mistake was made. The oiginal frontage is not partcularly unique or original and the alterations all made within the floorplan. On point two, I also agree. A retailer has an option on what payment services he offers, options which this retailer clearly states. It is a "free country" for him too. In general, the offering of card services may benefit some businesses and not others, but in a premises licensed for off sales and cigarettes, small credit card purchases may not be desirable. For one thing the mark up on tobacco and many other items they sell, is too small to absorb them. In presenting a card, you are effectively expecting a discount, to cover the cost of the payment type you have selected. Would it be reasonable for me to haggle for 36p off "for cash" on a £9 sale? I don't think it would be.
Originally posted by Stevequote:Ignorance is no excuse. One would hope that any business opening in the town had done it's homework before embarking on a potentially time-consuming and costly venture.
Originally posted by shunt
They simply didn't realise there was an planning issue.quote:If a business offers a choice of payment options then customers are at liberty to use them. You may not understand why or approve but it's a free country. Whilst we're about it, are there any other business overheads you'd like to pick and choose not to be included in the price of your purchase? [:o)]
I cannot imagine why anyone would use a card under a tenner, unless online. It just causes extra admin and a delay for whoever is behind in the queue. The charges for the retailer increase costs for everyone else and for small transactions, I think it's quite reasonable for the person wishing to use the facility to pay for it. I want to pay for what I'm buying, not another person's method of paying.
Reply ID 89348
To clarify, I had pulled in and parked outside the shop after a long drive. I had no cash on me, I nornmally do it was card or nothing. This wasnt me haggling or looking to lean on a retailer. When asked if I had cash instead of the card I explained I hadnt, when he said there was a 50p mark-up to use a card and I refused he had a busines decision to make....either take my card and realise a £3-4 profit... or hold his ground the assumption I would capitulate and accept the mark-up... I didnt capitulate and he lost what sounds like needed revenue. I think he made the wrong call thats all. If my spend was £2-3 I wouldnt object to the mark up as the card fee's would eat up most of his profit, I understand that.
Reply ID 89349
The Snug will only accept cards for more than £10 too, so they are not uniqiue in that way.