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Topic ID 5554

16/10/2010 by exiled_in_Reading

hertford woman in the daily mail..

..and it's not for a good reason. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1321002/Sickening-celebration-attack-train-passenger-dared-ask-thugs-quiet.html I also went to school with Doe, some considerable years ago - shame he seems to have turned out to be a thuggish tosser.


0 replies

Archived Replies

Reply ID 77303

16/10/2010 by Steve

Disgraceful sentencing. The CPS should appeal.


Reply ID 77304

16/10/2010 by exiled_in_Reading

they should all be doing time, that's for sure.


Reply ID 77305

16/10/2010 by James007

Seconded. I hope this is appealed. All three need to be in prison.


Reply ID 77306

16/10/2010 by Eyeone

They are described as “professionals” What complete and utter scum.[}:)] As it said in the Mail, what do you have to do to be imprisoned nowadays?



Reply ID 77308

16/10/2010 by Eyeone

Looking at that article am I right in thinking that the victim only received a total of £300 in compensation?


Reply ID 77309

16/10/2010 by James007

[url="http://www.btp.presscentre.com/Photo-Library/Hertford-East-celebration-1814.aspx"]British Transport Police download[/url]


Reply ID 77311

16/10/2010 by Deveraux

Totally disgusted! Why aren't scum like this behind bars? 300 hours Community Service is a total joke


Reply ID 77312

16/10/2010 by Eyeone

There is a video on the Mail site showing the attack & two of the attackers running away after the court case. Had trouble trying to link it here


Reply ID 77315

17/10/2010 by exiled_in_Reading

In the interest of fairness I did read one of the comments on the mail mentioned that the victim had apparently made some disparaging remarks about the female thug in the group before the incident and was also intoxicated. Obviously no excuse for what ensured afterwards - but I think that if this is true it should have been mentioned in the DM story. I would say that 3 months a piece at HM's pleasure would have been about right for an offence of this nature. They should count their blessings that the guy didnt get a brain haemorrhage or similar from their actions - they were obviously reckless as to the risk of that or worse, which is why they should be doing time, if not only to prove an example to others...


Reply ID 77317

17/10/2010 by James007

quote:
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
In the interest of fairness I did read one of the comments on the mail mentioned that the victim had apparently made some disparaging remarks about the female thug in the group before the incident and was also intoxicated. Obviously no excuse for what ensured afterwards - but I think that if this is true it should have been mentioned in the DM story. I would say that 3 months a piece at HM's pleasure would have been about right for an offence of this nature. They should count their blessings that the guy didnt get a brain haemorrhage or similar from their actions - they were obviously reckless as to the risk of that or worse, which is why they should be doing time, if not only to prove an example to others...
3 months is about right? Then you say this; They should count their blessings that the guy didnt get a brain haemorrhage Have you seen the video of the attack?


Reply ID 77318

17/10/2010 by exiled_in_Reading

quote:
Originally posted by James007
quote:
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
In the interest of fairness I did read one of the comments on the mail mentioned that the victim had apparently made some disparaging remarks about the female thug in the group before the incident and was also intoxicated. Obviously no excuse for what ensured afterwards - but I think that if this is true it should have been mentioned in the DM story. I would say that 3 months a piece at HM's pleasure would have been about right for an offence of this nature. They should count their blessings that the guy didnt get a brain haemorrhage or similar from their actions - they were obviously reckless as to the risk of that or worse, which is why they should be doing time, if not only to prove an example to others...
3 months is about right? Then you say this; They should count their blessings that the guy didnt get a brain haemorrhage Have you seen the video of the attack?
Yes I have. If the worst case scenario unfolded after an incident like this - they would have got about 7 years for manslaughter. Like I have said - they should count their blessings when reflecting on their actions that the guy only suffered cuts, bruising and shock.


Reply ID 77326

18/10/2010 by Gemma

I am asuming none of them will be "professionals" much longer and are likely to lose their jobs.


Reply ID 77338

18/10/2010 by exiled_in_Reading

quote:
Originally posted by Gemma
I am asuming none of them will be "professionals" much longer and are likely to lose their jobs.
I don't think Doe will be bothered. His parent's are minted.


Reply ID 77339

18/10/2010 by joemcdonald

When people kick and stamp on the head of somebody else, death is a likely and expected outcome. The CPS should treat a case like this as attempted murder. A plea bargain for anything less would be contrary to the public interest. If violent criminals show remorse afterwards, for instance showing concern for the victim and calling for an ambulance, perhaps the case can be considered something more like manslaughter. If the criminals are clearly enjoying themselves, as in this case, it is gratuitous recreational violence, and should be treated as murder (or attempted murder). Peaceful, law-abiding people like you and I need and deserve to be protected against violent psychopaths.


Reply ID 77340

18/10/2010 by James007

quote:
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
quote:
Originally posted by James007
quote:
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
In the interest of fairness I did read one of the comments on the mail mentioned that the victim had apparently made some disparaging remarks about the female thug in the group before the incident and was also intoxicated. Obviously no excuse for what ensured afterwards - but I think that if this is true it should have been mentioned in the DM story. I would say that 3 months a piece at HM's pleasure would have been about right for an offence of this nature. They should count their blessings that the guy didnt get a brain haemorrhage or similar from their actions - they were obviously reckless as to the risk of that or worse, which is why they should be doing time, if not only to prove an example to others...
3 months is about right? Then you say this; They should count their blessings that the guy didnt get a brain haemorrhage Have you seen the video of the attack?
Yes I have. If the worst case scenario unfolded after an incident like this - they would have got about 7 years for manslaughter. Like I have said - they should count their blessings when reflecting on their actions that the guy only suffered cuts, bruising and shock.
Is that the real truth of the law?


Reply ID 77345

18/10/2010 by exiled_in_Reading

quote:
Originally posted by James007
quote:
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
quote:
Originally posted by James007
quote:
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
In the interest of fairness I did read one of the comments on the mail mentioned that the victim had apparently made some disparaging remarks about the female thug in the group before the incident and was also intoxicated. Obviously no excuse for what ensured afterwards - but I think that if this is true it should have been mentioned in the DM story. I would say that 3 months a piece at HM's pleasure would have been about right for an offence of this nature. They should count their blessings that the guy didnt get a brain haemorrhage or similar from their actions - they were obviously reckless as to the risk of that or worse, which is why they should be doing time, if not only to prove an example to others...
3 months is about right? Then you say this; They should count their blessings that the guy didnt get a brain haemorrhage Have you seen the video of the attack?
Yes I have. If the worst case scenario unfolded after an incident like this - they would have got about 7 years for manslaughter. Like I have said - they should count their blessings when reflecting on their actions that the guy only suffered cuts, bruising and shock.
Is that the real truth of the law?
What do you mean the real truth of the law? If what you meant to refer to is whether or not 7 years is within the discretion of the court for the more repugnant examples of cases of manslaughter when, notwithstanding that the defendant intended neither to kill nor to cause the deceased grievous bodily harm, they are convicted of manslaughter on the basis that the death was consequent of an act of unlawful violence - the answer is yes...


Reply ID 77354

19/10/2010 by James007

Apologies - didn't realise the font was going to be so big. Yes I did mean that. I find it is bizarre that people are aware that that if this guy had died, 7 years in prison would be all they would have received. They obviously knew that too. Also, when did stamping on a person's head, back, legs, chest and neck not become attempted murder?


Reply ID 77362

19/10/2010 by Steve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcvLgzSzDX4


Reply ID 77366

19/10/2010 by exiled_in_Reading

quote:
Originally posted by James007
Apologies - didn't realise the font was going to be so big. Yes I did mean that. I find it is bizarre that people are aware that that if this guy had died, 7 years in prison would be all they would have received. They obviously knew that too. Also, when did stamping on a person's head, back, legs, chest and neck not become attempted murder?
When it isn't done with malice aforethought. They clearly wanted to knock 7 bells of **** out of the bloke but it's unlikely they ever intended to kill him...


Reply ID 77418

22/10/2010 by thefair1973

Is the "Frederick Doe" in the video the same as Freddie Doe who works for Steven Oates? Certainly looks like the wideboy who's shown me round some of Hertford's over-priced property


Reply ID 77422

22/10/2010 by exiled_in_Reading

quote:
Originally posted by thefair1973
Is the "Frederick Doe" in the video the same as Freddie Doe who works for Steven Oates? Certainly looks like the wideboy who's shown me round some of Hertford's over-priced property
:)


Reply ID 77423

22/10/2010 by Woody

quote:
Originally posted by thefair1973
Is the "Frederick Doe" in the video the same as Freddie Doe who works for Steven Oates? Certainly looks like the wideboy who's shown me round some of Hertford's over-priced property
Surely it can't be - the Daily Mail said Doe was a "professional". [}:)]


Reply ID 77424

22/10/2010 by exiled_in_Reading

a professional **** maybe...


Reply ID 77425

22/10/2010 by tsr

strange how the story only made page 13 of the mercury...


Reply ID 77456

25/10/2010 by simcut

Why the hell were these scumbags spared Jail?


Reply ID 77460

25/10/2010 by Golden

One thing I can't understand is how everyone else just watched this happen, I'm guessing there's a little bit more to this story than meets the eye but it seems that everyone else turned away. I've also thought about solutions (since asking some toerag to put his cigarette out on a commuter train coming into Hertford last week) and one system in use at football grounds these days is text. A number is widely advertised in the programme and in the ground where is there's a problem you text into the central control who will then view the CCTV of the area to identify any culprits. Its viewed as an 'anonymous' way to report troublemakers. Now if the same system was used on the trains it may work as I'm sure people wouldn't want to be overhead by the perpetrators.


Reply ID 77463

25/10/2010 by steven

That would be a good idea I think. People don't get involved in altercations these days because the potential for being stabbed is pretty high.


Reply ID 77466

25/10/2010 by Kateg28

I also agree. I think the text idea would be better, as being female, I would not have got involved. I would have moved carriages and called the police but I would not directly get involved for fear of being attacked too.


Reply ID 77476

25/10/2010 by Woody

It is a great idea for football grounds - clear signal-reception, the ability of the stadium control room to zoom and focus CCTV and plenty of stewards to respond safely. Unfortunately the intermittent ability to send text messages along the Hertford Loop might prove a barrier. Secondly, who would then respond? Guards on trains were removed years ago and I don't see any of the "profit before safety" franchise operators re-introducing the cost willingly.


Reply ID 77477

25/10/2010 by Golden

Good points Woody; I was thinking more of alerting the control room to notify the police to meet the train at a subsequent stop. I don't know where the CCTV is sent to from trains or if it is just stored on a disc on board. I thought that it may prove to be a deterrent if those on the trains were aware that this type of reporting could land them in trouble.


Reply ID 78109

01/12/2010 by James007

quote:
Originally posted by thefair1973
Is the "Frederick Doe" in the video the same as Freddie Doe who works for Steven Oates? Certainly looks like the wideboy who's shown me round some of Hertford's over-priced property
I am thinking of putting my property on the market in early 2011. Is this man still working for Steven Oates Estate Agency?


Reply ID 78110

01/12/2010 by Leo Densian

quote:
Originally posted by James007 I am thinking of putting my property on the market in early 2011. Is this man still working for Steven Oates Estate Agency?
He's not listed [url]http://www.stevenoates.com/ourteam.php[/url]


Reply ID 78111

01/12/2010 by Deveraux

quote:
Originally posted by James007
quote:
Originally posted by thefair1973
Is the "Frederick Doe" in the video the same as Freddie Doe who works for Steven Oates? Certainly looks like the wideboy who's shown me round some of Hertford's over-priced property
I am thinking of putting my property on the market in early 2011. Is this man still working for Steven Oates Estate Agency?
I read the above to mean that he worked for Stephen Oates the person rather than Stepehen Oates the Estate Agents? Stephen Oates the person runs the Simplyhomes.biz place in South Street.


Reply ID 78112

01/12/2010 by thefair1973

nope, it was Steven Oates the agency he worked for, not simplyhomes.biz


Reply ID 78113

01/12/2010 by Leo Densian

I see that he plays for a local football team and he's just served a 35 day suspension handed out by the Hertfordshire FA - but I'm sure all it was all a misunderstanding and that he's really a nice guy who's good to his Mum. I see that a 35 day suspension is recommended for kicking or striking another player.


Reply ID 78115

01/12/2010 by exiled_in_Reading

given Doe also went to school with one of his managers listed in that link, the chances of him being given the boot are slim...


Reply ID 78118

02/12/2010 by Deveraux

quote:
Originally posted by thefair1973
nope, it was Steven Oates the agency he worked for, not simplyhomes.biz
I did wonder - many thanks for clarifying!


Reply ID 78133

02/12/2010 by Donostia

If you have already been punished once in a court of law (whatever you think of the sentence) , should you be punished twice by losing your job ? Therefore being even more a burden to society with benefit pay outs .


Reply ID 78135

02/12/2010 by Ewoowar

quote:
Originally posted by Donostia
If you have already been punished once in a court of law (whatever you think of the sentence) , should you be punished twice by losing your job ? Therefore being even more a burden to society with benefit pay outs .
Is anyone calling for him to lose his job?


Reply ID 78147

02/12/2010 by exiled_in_Reading

quote:
Originally posted by Ewoowar
quote:
Originally posted by Donostia
If you have already been punished once in a court of law (whatever you think of the sentence) , should you be punished twice by losing your job ? Therefore being even more a burden to society with benefit pay outs .
Is anyone calling for him to lose his job?
If I am convicted of a criminal offence (other than any low level motoring offence) it is highly likely I would be dismissed from my job pursuant to the terms of my contract. In the specific circumstances of this case it is unlikely that Doe would lose his job, as Steven Oates is somewhat of an old boys club -but would you want this man working for you and representing your organisation? I certainly wouldn't. If he still works there perhaps this says as much about SO as it does Doe.


Reply ID 78148

02/12/2010 by James007

It will make my decision easier when I find out if Doe is working there still. I need to be able to trust someone when they enter my home.


Reply ID 78149

02/12/2010 by Woody

quote:
Originally posted by Donostia
If you have already been punished once in a court of law (whatever you think of the sentence) , should you be punished twice by losing your job ? Therefore being even more a burden to society with benefit pay outs .
Interesting. My initial thought was that it would appear unfair to be penalised twice. However, my second thought was that if the crime is one of dishonesty, theft or violence and the perpetrator is employed in a position of trust, then they should go as they have shown themselves to be unworthy of that trust. In this instance, Doe was convicted for an act of violence at someone who said something he disagreed with. I wouldn't want a member of my family alone with him on a viewing because he has shown he can not be trusted. Should we be left to pay for his benefit claim? No, I would rather not and he should find himself an alternative career where low trust is required (despite what we think about estate agents [}:)] ).


Reply ID 78220

05/12/2010 by VC1

if Samantha Vander is looking for a PA job in the future.....she is going to have a problem! Recruiter's frequently Google names, best you apply directly and keep away from an agency. Also, all recruitment agencies 'talk'!


Reply ID 78222

06/12/2010 by Kateg28

That is probably why is sticking with her current job and not looking.


Reply ID 78224

06/12/2010 by VC1

..no matter when any of them start looking for a new role, the facts will always be on Google! Hurray for the World Wide Web!


Reply ID 78225

06/12/2010 by Golden

I always used to google search my new people .. the only problem I came across was with a woman whose surname was 'spread' - that run me into a few issues with our net-nanny!


47 replies