Topic ID 5266
Realistically the answer is probably no-one, but will it be Steve Terry or Andrew Lewin that come closest? A Labour candidate has been runner up in the last three general elections, but could the Lib-Dems provide the main challenger this time? Whilst we still have such an eccentric electoral system I'm happy to play the 'tactical voting' game and put my cross against whoever can give Mr.Two homes a run for his money. (Or should that be our money!)
Reply ID 74061
I'd plump for Andrew if you are doing the tactical voting thing, because Conservative voters could no more vote Labour than sever their right arm, so they are more likely to join you in a Liberal vote. (Just try discussing politics with a Conservative and they'll immediately turn aggressive, manic and thuggish, as if you'd insulted their god.) I'm in favour of voting how your internal logic tells you to and ignoring the "tactical" vote. It ensures we get either Labour or Conservative and they both know that a two party system gives them the best chance, which is why they often encourage it. Vote for who you want, not against who you don't want. In politics, your enemy's enemy is NOT your friend.
Reply ID 74066
Yes, ideally we should vote for the party we like best, but sadly with first past the post it often makes more sense to vote against whoever you don't want to win if you want your vote to count. That said, I'd be content to vote for either Labour or the Lib-Dems anyway. Like you, I shall probably vote for Andrew Lewin.
Reply ID 74070
Shunt that's a pretty bigoted view of conservative voters isn't it? [:)] I look forward to one day having a political discussion with you.
Reply ID 74071
Shunt, I find that happens if I try and discuss politics with a labour voter who protects Gordon Brown as if he is a god (instead of an unelected prime minister). And I still don't have any political leanings, am still completely undecided.
Reply ID 74072
quote:Well, I've seen a sustained LibDem campaign in Hertford. Has anyone heard a peep out of Labour? And obviously Mr. Two-homes [url="http://www.hertsandessexobserver.co.uk/Election/Stortford-MP-Prisk-denies-split-loyalties.htm"]is rattled by[/url] by the LibDem challenge!
Originally posted by dennismoore
Realistically the answer is probably no-one, but will it be Steve Terry or Andrew Lewin that come closest? A Labour candidate has been runner up in the last three general elections, but could the Lib-Dems provide the main challenger this time?
Reply ID 74074
quote:All Prime Ministers are unelected.
Originally posted by Kateg28
Shunt, I find that happens if I try and discuss politics with a labour voter who protects Gordon Brown as if he is a god (instead of an unelected prime minister). And I still don't have any political leanings, am still completely undecided.
Reply ID 74076
quote:Agreed. But Gordon Brown didn't even win a contested election for leader of the Labour Party, having been returned unopposed.
Originally posted by Stevequote:All Prime Ministers are unelected.
Originally posted by Kateg28
Shunt, I find that happens if I try and discuss politics with a labour voter who protects Gordon Brown as if he is a god (instead of an unelected prime minister). And I still don't have any political leanings, am still completely undecided.
Reply ID 74077
quote:and was not leadr of his party at the last General Elaction so the only win he has if for his seat nothing else.
Originally posted by Ray_by_the_Beanequote:Agreed. But Gordon Brown didn't even win a contested election for leader of the Labour Party, having been returned unopposed.
Originally posted by Stevequote:All Prime Ministers are unelected.
Originally posted by Kateg28
Shunt, I find that happens if I try and discuss politics with a labour voter who protects Gordon Brown as if he is a god (instead of an unelected prime minister). And I still don't have any political leanings, am still completely undecided.
Reply ID 74080
Here's my feedback as a candidate that has met a couple of thousand constituents in this campaign. I have heard many life long Labour supporters say they will not vote for them again. The Labour candidate did not even turn up at the Hustings in Bishop's Stortford on Sunday (attended by 500 voters). The Lib Dem lad looks to have matured during this campaign and is running an enthusiastic campaign with backing of a growing group of Lib Dem activists. He will make up the 3,000 vote gap needed to pip Labour to 2nd place. But the only wasted vote is a vote for the status quo. Vote Independent! Lib Dems are just another party like the other 2. We need 50 independents in parliament who will avoid getting sucked in to party politics, foster co-operation between the parties and ensure the unpopular decisions are addressed. We have to start somewhere. http://www.loucasx.com
Reply ID 74083
quote:You can add John Major and Jim Callaghan to the list too. Both were appointed leader mid-term.[;)] Parties pick their own leader. We get to vote for MPs and GB is elected in that sense. I'd imagine GB was unopposed because he was too strong a candidate at the time (bearing in mind the crash was yet to happen). There was, at the time, also the feeling that almost anyone would be better than Blair. Staunch Labourites and dyed in the wool Tories are equally bad at examining the true causes behind political and economic consequence, preferring instead to be just very, very angry! Tories will blame Brown, ignoring Thatcher's precedent. Labour supporters are equally likely to wash over that they have had 13 years of ignoring the ticking bomb they inherited from her, just as Major did. That said, if they hadn't, they'd probably not have had that time and the Tories (always voting for an even more disasterous and extreme economic course, from the opposition benches) would have come to power. Both parties have played to popular greed and both would have brought us to this point, the Tories rather sooner and with far greater consequence, (not that that lets GB off the hook[;)]). Have a look at how MPs have voted on various issues over the last decade or so, particularly the votes that your team lost. Then imagine the consequences, in hindsight, if they had won. For supporters of either of the two main parties, it's something of an eye-opener.
Originally posted by Ray_by_the_Beanequote:Agreed. But Gordon Brown didn't even win a contested election for leader of the Labour Party, having been returned unopposed.
Originally posted by Stevequote:All Prime Ministers are unelected.
Originally posted by Kateg28
Shunt, I find that happens if I try and discuss politics with a labour voter who protects Gordon Brown as if he is a god (instead of an unelected prime minister). And I still don't have any political leanings, am still completely undecided.
Reply ID 74091
Has anyone seen this website? [url]http://www.voterpower.org.uk/hertford-stortford[/url] It shows the Hertford & Stortford area as being very safe conservative. Last election conservative had 50% next closest was Labour on 25%, then Lib Dem 18%. Conservative have won for at least the last 4 elections! It would take 100% of Labour and 15% of Conservative voters to vote Lib Dem for Lib Dem to win in this area.
Reply ID 74095
quote:..clinging to straws I know, but there is a possibility that a good proportion of the more rabid Tory vote may go UKIP [}:)](unfortunately using the same logic there may be some defections from the more gullible Labour folk to Griffins brownshirts & whichever semi-housetrained fascist they’ve got to run here…[:(!])
Originally posted by DCI monkfish
Has anyone seen this website? [url]http://www.voterpower.org.uk/hertford-stortford[/url] It shows the Hertford & Stortford area as being very safe conservative. Last election conservative had 50% next closest was Labour on 25%, then Lib Dem 18%. Conservative have won for at least the last 4 elections! It would take 100% of Labour and 15% of Conservative voters to vote Lib Dem for Lib Dem to win in this area.
Reply ID 74097
At the hustings in Ware last night it certainly seemed that Andrew Lewin was more popular with the audience. Whether this is true across the whole constituency remains to be seen.
Reply ID 74103
A wholly unscientific straw-poll of the people with whom members of my family have discussed the election with suggests, roughly, half are engaged with the election and half have no political interest. A larger turnout than normal would be interesting though is it likely? Of those engaged, many previous Labour supporters intend voting Lib Dem; previous Lib Dem voters intend to remain Lib Dem and many previous Conservative supporters are undecided between Conservative and UKIP with an occassional Lib Dem. Die-hard supporters of the main parties intend to vote as they always do. No-one we have spoken with has yet admitted to supporting BNP, English Democrats or either of the Independant Candidates, though some of the arguments put forward by these candidates have been acknowledged in discussion. Of the local candidates themselves, we have heard positive comments made with reference to Andrew Lewin's Lib Dem campaign in addition to the Nick Clegg factor. Comments such as he has been "highly visible" and has "matured" as the campaign has progressed, though one found his 4-man Hertford North Station team last week to be amusing in a "pantomime" way. Others have stated that whilst Mark Prisk "talks a good talk", he comes across as a "polished talker but not from the heart", and a suggestion that he appears "sly" as opposed to trustworthy. Steve Terry appears to be "Mr Invisible" and a "stock Labour candidate in a no-hoper seat". I haven't spoken with anyone who has seen him apart from yesterday's Hustings broadcast. Loucas Xenophontos is Mr Nice, coming across as a "nice man when you meet him", "wants to be involved" though "confused" or "undecided" in his manifesto. I haven't spoken with anyone who has seen anything of the other candidates. My gut feel is that Mark Prisk will be again returned as the MP for Hertford cum Truro, though on a reduced majority.
Reply ID 74105
quote:There is no English Democrat standing for our constituency. There is an "Independent English DelegatE". The English Democrats are a mainstream party campaigning for an English Parliament with the same powers as the Scottish Parliament, and to address the "West Lothian Question" where the Barnet Formula gives Scotland more funds per capita than England.
Originally posted by Woody
A wholly unscientific straw-poll of the people with whom members of my family have discussed the election with suggests, roughly, half are engaged with the election and half have no political interest. A larger turnout than normal would be interesting though is it likely? Of those engaged, many previous Labour supporters intend voting Lib Dem; previous Lib Dem voters intend to remain Lib Dem and many previous Conservative supporters are undecided between Conservative and UKIP with an occassional Lib Dem. Die-hard supporters of the main parties intend to vote as they always do. No-one we have spoken with has yet admitted to supporting BNP, English Democrats or either of the Independant Candidates, though some of the arguments put forward by these candidates have been acknowledged in discussion. Of the local candidates themselves, we have heard positive comments made with reference to Andrew Lewin's Lib Dem campaign in addition to the Nick Clegg factor. Comments such as he has been "highly visible" and has "matured" as the campaign has progressed, though one found his 4-man Hertford North Station team last week to be amusing in a "pantomime" way. Others have stated that whilst Mark Prisk "talks a good talk", he comes across as a "polished talker but not from the heart", and a suggestion that he appears "sly" as opposed to trustworthy. Steve Terry appears to be "Mr Invisible" and a "stock Labour candidate in a no-hoper seat". I haven't spoken with anyone who has seen him apart from yesterday's Hustings broadcast. Loucas Xenophontos is Mr Nice, coming across as a "nice man when you meet him", "wants to be involved" though "confused" or "undecided" in his manifesto. I haven't spoken with anyone who has seen anything of the other candidates. My gut feel is that Mark Prisk will be again returned as the MP for Hertford cum Truro, though on a reduced majority.
Reply ID 74106
RayBTB I stand corrected, sir.
Reply ID 74108
quote:or about 65% of those who didn't vote.
Originally posted by DCI monkfish
Has anyone seen this website? [url]http://www.voterpower.org.uk/hertford-stortford[/url] It shows the Hertford & Stortford area as being very safe conservative. Last election conservative had 50% next closest was Labour on 25%, then Lib Dem 18%. Conservative have won for at least the last 4 elections! It would take 100% of Labour and 15% of Conservative voters to vote Lib Dem for Lib Dem to win in this area.
Reply ID 74109
quote:I think I have been more direct in my manifesto than most. I certainly cover more of the deficit than the 3 main parties and have some strong views on family, benefits, parliamentary reform, education, health, local democracy, drugs, tax and the economy. [url]http://www.loucasx.com[/url] My whole reason for entering the world of politics for the first time is because I think party politics and the desperation for power means the career politicians are too scared to discuss the contentious issues. So if I have done the same, I have proved my point but in the wrong way!
Loucas Xenophontos is Mr Nice, coming across as a "nice man when you meet him", "wants to be involved" though "confused" or "undecided" in his manifesto.
Reply ID 74111
quote:Perhaps its like the Groucho Marx principle of not wanting to belong to a club that would have you as a member[:)]
Originally posted by LoucasXquote:I think I have been more direct in my manifesto than most. I certainly cover more of the deficit than the 3 main parties and have some strong views on family, benefits, parliamentary reform, education, health, local democracy, drugs, tax and the economy. [url]http://www.loucasx.com[/url] My whole reason for entering the world of politics for the first time is because I think party politics and the desperation for power means the career politicians are too scared to discuss the contentious issues. So if I have done the same, I have proved my point but in the wrong way!
Loucas Xenophontos is Mr Nice, coming across as a "nice man when you meet him", "wants to be involved" though "confused" or "undecided" in his manifesto.
Reply ID 74118
Does anyone know many votes a candidate has to get or lose their deposit?
Reply ID 74119
quote:You need to poll over 5% of the total votes cast
Originally posted by CityBird
Does anyone know many votes a candidate has to get or lose their deposit?
Reply ID 74122
quote:Indeed those two parties have much the same in policy over the last decade and a half. It is difficult to tell the difference.[:(] There is one essential difference though. Tories assume anyone who is morally revolted by all they stand for, is Labour.[:)]
Originally posted by Kateg28
Shunt, I find that happens if I try and discuss politics with a labour voter who protects Gordon Brown as if he is a god (instead of an unelected prime minister). And I still don't have any political leanings, am still completely undecided.
Reply ID 74127
quote:And that Shunt is a blinder from 20 yards... Damn, I'll save it up for next time, pass it off as my own & hope no-one notices.
Originally posted by shunt
[quote]Originally posted by Kateg28
Shunt, There is one essential difference though. Tories assume anyone who is morally revolted by all they stand for, is Labour.[:)]
Reply ID 74322
The role of 'Minister for Cornwall' seems to have been overlooked in the new cabinet line up.
Reply ID 74323
From BBC News http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/grahamsmith/2010/05/wanted_a_useful_idiot.html
Reply ID 74325
quote:[:D]
Originally posted by Harry Palmer
From BBC News http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/grahamsmith/2010/05/wanted_a_useful_idiot.html
Reply ID 74328
See that he's got Minister of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. Any chance he'll help improve the business/retail environment in the town centre?
Reply ID 74329
quote:Don't hold your breath, but I bet things improve in Cornwall.[:(!]
Originally posted by CLB
See that he's got Minister of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. Any chance he'll help improve the business/retail environment in the town centre?
Reply ID 74332
And according to this he is Minister for Cornwall http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7721162/Coalition-government-Mark-Prisk-John-Hayes-to-support-Vince-Cable-at-BIS.html
Reply ID 74333
quote:I doubt his new "boss", Vince Cable will be approving of excess trips to
Originally posted by buzzquote:Don't hold your breath, but I bet things improve in Cornwall.[:(!]
Originally posted by CLB
See that he's got Minister of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. Any chance he'll help improve the business/retail environment in the town centre?
Reply ID 74334
quote:That article doesnt say he is Minster for cornwall at all!
Originally posted by Harry Palmer
And according to this he is Minister for Cornwall http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7721162/Coalition-government-Mark-Prisk-John-Hayes-to-support-Vince-Cable-at-BIS.html
Reply ID 74343
quote:Oops my error! Hopefully he can use his skills to help local business too!
Originally posted by Gemmaquote:That article doesnt say he is Minster for cornwall at all!
Originally posted by Harry Palmer
And according to this he is Minister for Cornwall http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7721162/Coalition-government-Mark-Prisk-John-Hayes-to-support-Vince-Cable-at-BIS.html
Reply ID 74344
So does this mean his boss is a Lib Dem? [8D]
Reply ID 74357
Feel sorry for Vince
Reply ID 74368
No I bloody well won't. He's made his bed ...
Reply ID 74597
Why can't losers in an election accept that someone else was preferred by the electorate. The reason that Mark Prisk continues to win Hertford & Stortford is because he is more poular than any of the others. People voted FOR him. It's no good complaining how many voted against him. Fewer voted against him than voted against any other candidate. It is a good thing that H&S does not have a LibDem MP because an even greater number voted against them. The Hertford area is comfortable with a centre-right representation at all levels of government. Get over it. Exactly the same apples the other way round in areas like Glasgow and the north east of England.
Reply ID 74600
Here here Martin 99..
Reply ID 74602
quote:What makes you think that some people can't accept that Mark Prisk was elected? I'm struggling to find a post that suggests this. I think your remarks might be better directed at the losers in the Tory party who are having a hard time swallowing the fact that they didn't win the election.
Originally posted by Martin99
Why can't losers in an election accept that someone else was preferred by the electorate. The reason that Mark Prisk continues to win Hertford & Stortford is because he is more poular than any of the others. People voted FOR him. It's no good complaining how many voted against him. Fewer voted against him than voted against any other candidate. It is a good thing that H&S does not have a LibDem MP because an even greater number voted against them. The Hertford area is comfortable with a centre-right representation at all levels of government. Get over it. Exactly the same apples the other way round in areas like Glasgow and the north east of England.
Reply ID 74604
quote:Classify winning? DC looks pretty smug in his PM dressing gown perched on his Chez Lounge in No10!
Originally posted by Stevequote:What makes you think that some people can't accept that Mark Prisk was elected? I'm struggling to find a post that suggests this. I think your remarks might be better directed at the losers in the Tory party who are having a hard time swallowing the fact that they didn't win the election.
Originally posted by Martin99
Why can't losers in an election accept that someone else was preferred by the electorate. The reason that Mark Prisk continues to win Hertford & Stortford is because he is more poular than any of the others. People voted FOR him. It's no good complaining how many voted against him. Fewer voted against him than voted against any other candidate. It is a good thing that H&S does not have a LibDem MP because an even greater number voted against them. The Hertford area is comfortable with a centre-right representation at all levels of government. Get over it. Exactly the same apples the other way round in areas like Glasgow and the north east of England.
Reply ID 74606
quote:Getting a mandate to govern.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Classify winning?
Reply ID 74607
No party got an overwhelming right to govern, and its odd that the "third" place libdems are in a coalition.. but that's politics for you! I personally would have preferred another election I would also like to see more polling stations open for longer and less postal voting, there have been some anomalies even where I work with people having the option to vote twice and we all saw the scenes of voters queuing for hours and unable to vote, that has to have had an impact... We shall see how long the coalition lasts... At least the two at the top look the same.. maybe they've been cloned !!!![:D]
Reply ID 74610
quote:[?] But you just said "Here here Martin 99.." to his comments regarding the election results, that the result should be accepted and anyone bemoaning what the electorate have decided should "get over it"..
Originally posted by Drama Queen
. . . I personally would have preferred another election . . .
Reply ID 74612
quote:When a stale government reaches election in recession, people tend to vote for what they consider to be the extreme opposite, whoever that might be. It has unseated Wilson, Heath, Callaghan and Major. The difference (nationally) this time is that enough who voted Conservative in 1979 remembered that their last government turned out to be far-right once in office and stripped Britain bare. Many are miffed with New lab too, because all they've done is keep it going and prop up the subtefuge as they found it. The '80s have come home to haunt us and the con that they were has bubbled up to the surface. Hands up if you still own BT, water? (French), Gas? (Russian and French), Electricity? (American)...... Has your money been nice and safe in a Building society, or in one of the ex-building societies which we were all bribed to allow to de-mutualise and then went bust and got sold to Spain? We owned all this once, before we were persauded top buy them from ourselves and sell them off to the Conservatives' foreign backers. Now we only own the part of Britain which makes a loss. Since all but one newspaper and all but one TV news channel is owned by foreign right wingers, the Lib-Dems are our best hope of holding the tiger by the tail and finding out what Dave and George are up to. Locally, the issue is that many still voted for Mr Prisk despite there being no evidence of him having provided an adequate service as our MP to date. The suggestion is that local Conservative voters will vote Conservative regardless of the consequence, regardless of policy and regardless of whether such a vote is likely to benefit them or anyone around them. Had Mr Prisk represented any other party and been re-elected on his record so far, that would be no less damning.
Originally posted by Martin99
Why can't losers in an election accept that someone else was preferred by the electorate. The reason that Mark Prisk continues to win Hertford & Stortford is because he is more poular than any of the others. People voted FOR him. It's no good complaining how many voted against him. Fewer voted against him than voted against any other candidate. It is a good thing that H&S does not have a LibDem MP because an even greater number voted against them. The Hertford area is comfortable with a centre-right representation at all levels of government. Get over it. Exactly the same apples the other way round in areas like Glasgow and the north east of England.
Reply ID 74613
quote:Shunt's stolen some of my thunder but I don't think other posters are refusing to accept that Mark Prisk won. Despite dodgy expenses claims he clearly won with just over 50% of the vote. That's a clear mandate for the centre-right in this constituency, unlike in the country as a whole where the centre-right haven't actually achieved a clear mandate from the British people since 1935. My question at the start of the thread was which of the two centre-left parties had the best chance of beating him this time. The answer of course was neither.
Originally posted by Martin99
Why can't losers in an election accept that someone else was preferred by the electorate. The reason that Mark Prisk continues to win Hertford & Stortford is because he is more poular than any of the others. People voted FOR him. It's no good complaining how many voted against him. Fewer voted against him than voted against any other candidate. It is a good thing that H&S does not have a LibDem MP because an even greater number voted against them. The Hertford area is comfortable with a centre-right representation at all levels of government. Get over it. Exactly the same apples the other way round in areas like Glasgow and the north east of England.
Reply ID 74619
One interesting consequence of the election I've only seen alluded to rarely in the media is the House of Lords and the "Salisbury Convention (I think that is the correct term)". Essentially this convention says that the House of Lords should not vote down anything that is in the government's manifesto. But as the coalition government doesn't have a manifesto as such (or at least one that was presented to the electorate), then the House of Lords can feel free to vote however they feel.
Reply ID 74868
Mr Prisk wants work experience with a local business http://www.herald24.co.uk/news/hertford_mp_mark_prisk_s_work_experience_plea_1_445767 Any offers for him?
Reply ID 74871
How about behind the counter in the Cornish pasty shop - should feel right at home there [:D]