Topic ID 5141
Although this subject has already been mentioned in the other current thread on the Hertford and Ware Urban Transport Plan, I think this issue warrants a thread of its own. Admin, I hope you agree. I know this issue has already been discussed ad infinitum, but all I want to say is how important it is for those residents of Hertford/Bengeo who are against this "temporary" closure to take the time to mark the questionnaire "Do nothing". My understanding of the form means they will still look to implement other measures to improve the situation (I agree further measures are desirable), you are just saying "NO" to the barrier. I have no doubt that those members of LoBRA and anyone else who wants the barrier (mostly those who wish to continue parking illegally/inconsiderately in the area although I appreciate some people have genuine safety concerns) will take the trouble to vote "Yes" to the barrier. If everyone who doesn't want it says so (and I think this will be many more) then it will show the council it is not desired and that other measures are preferred (traffic calming measures, proper enforcement of parking/road restrictions etc). Of course, if it turns out that the "yes's" are in the majority, then I will stand corrected...
Reply ID 72603
I think you are mistaken. 3,000 cars travel down the "Hertford Relief Road" every day. There are not 3,000 people in Bengeo affected by the traffic to vote against allowing the Rat Run to continue. But we do not vote politicians in, to do what we want. We vote politicians in, to do what is right. That is why we do not have hanging - or the right to bear arms. It is right not to direct the majority of one side of the town's traffic through suburban side streets. We all know that. The problem is how to alleviate that flow. We will see if our politicians are up to the job. P
quote:
Originally posted by Razor
Although this subject has already been mentioned in the other current thread on the Hertford and Ware Urban Transport Plan, I think this issue warrants a thread of its own. Admin, I hope you agree. I know this issue has already been discussed ad infinitum, but all I want to say is how important it is for those residents of Hertford/Bengeo who are against this "temporary" closure to take the time to mark the questionnaire "Do nothing". My understanding of the form means they will still look to implement other measures to improve the situation (I agree further measures are desirable), you are just saying "NO" to the barrier. I have no doubt that those members of LoBRA and anyone else who wants the barrier (mostly those who wish to continue parking illegally/inconsiderately in the area although I appreciate some people have genuine safety concerns) will take the trouble to vote "Yes" to the barrier. If everyone who doesn't want it says so (and I think this will be many more) then it will show the council it is not desired and that other measures are preferred (traffic calming measures, proper enforcement of parking/road restrictions etc). Of course, if it turns out that the "yes's" are in the majority, then I will stand corrected...
Reply ID 72605
Call me a cynic, but isn't this just about the council wanting to look like they're doing something without actually having to do anything? It's a Hertford/Ware wide consultation so a 'Do Nothing' result would seem almost certain. Perhaps that's what they're depending on. Only those directly affected by the Rat-Run or with children at the schools involved are likely to vote for a barrier. Interesting there's no mention of enforcing the 'access only' signs as a solution to the problem.
Reply ID 72606
quote:You are quite right if the enforced the access only and no right turn properly it would help the situation. Also speed humps and a 20 mile and hour speed limit in the Avenue would help the 8 to 9 am racing circit.
Originally posted by dennismoore
Call me a cynic, but isn't this just about the council wanting to look like they're doing something without actually having to do anything? It's a Hertford/Ware wide consultation so a 'Do Nothing' result would seem almost certain. Perhaps that's what they're depending on. Only those directly affected by the Rat-Run or with children at the schools involved are likely to vote for a barrier. Interesting there's no mention of enforcing the 'access only' signs as a solution to the problem.
Reply ID 72609
I agree with what you say Dennis about enforcement of the "access only" and with your comments Marilyn. These sorts of ideas are, in my opinion, a far more sensible approach. Paul, Im really not sure what the point was you were trying to make, you seem to have gone off on a strange tangent from the points I was making.
Reply ID 72612
The "Access only" restriction has always been unenforceable, and the Police said this from day one. There are too many reasons why people have rightful access to the area. If I wish to drive to Sele Farm from Bengeo, but decide to go via The Avenue in order to purchase a newspaper on my journey, then that is perfectly legal. I have "accessed" the area legitimately. Furthermore, how much Police resources would you wish to tie up covering every access road to the area? The "Access Only" restriction should be abolished as it is a waste of time, and resources should be aimed at those who cause the problem in the area. viz. the illegally parked vehicles.
Reply ID 72614
quote:I am not sure how you interpret saying "Do Nothing" is just saying no to the barrier.They have made it quite clear: either vote for temporary closure of Byde Street, or vote to Do Nothing! It doesn't say, "Do nothing about the barrier, but we have a raft of other ideas up our sleeve" You will either be voting for a closure of Byde St. or voting for nothing at all to be done regarding the traffic in Lower Bengeo. Given the choice I would vote for Do Nothing.
Originally posted by Razor
Although this subject has already been mentioned in the other current thread on the Hertford and Ware Urban Transport Plan, I think this issue warrants a thread of its own. Admin, I hope you agree. I know this issue has already been discussed ad infinitum, but all I want to say is how important it is for those residents of Hertford/Bengeo who are against this "temporary" closure to take the time to mark the questionnaire "Do nothing". My understanding of the form means they will still look to implement other measures to improve the situation (I agree further measures are desirable), you are just saying "NO" to the barrier. I have no doubt that those members of LoBRA and anyone else who wants the barrier (mostly those who wish to continue parking illegally/inconsiderately in the area although I appreciate some people have genuine safety concerns) will take the trouble to vote "Yes" to the barrier. If everyone who doesn't want it says so (and I think this will be many more) then it will show the council it is not desired and that other measures are preferred (traffic calming measures, proper enforcement of parking/road restrictions etc). Of course, if it turns out that the "yes's" are in the majority, then I will stand corrected...
Reply ID 72616
Actually, youre quite wrong Buzz, you need to read the leaflet again. If you look again you will notice that the third paragrpah states "This could be COMBINED with either of the following options" The word "combined" refers to various other proposals to improve traffic in the Bengeo area mentioned in the previous paragraph
Reply ID 72617
Excuse me? Buzz wrong [:0] I think you must be mistaken.
Reply ID 72619
quote:There are 3,000 people in Hertford and surrounding area though and the UK as a whole. Once again, I remind you that you did not buy the road when you bought the house. It is not yours, it is ours, all of us. A decision which favours only a small portion of the population at the expense of the majority would be a misuse of political office.
Originally posted by Paul
I think you are mistaken. 3,000 cars travel down the "Hertford Relief Road" every day. There are not 3,000 people in Bengeo affected by the traffic to vote against allowing the Rat Run to continue. But we do not vote politicians in, to do what we want. We vote politicians in, to do what is right. That is why we do not have hanging - or the right to bear arms. It is right not to direct the majority of one side of the town's traffic through suburban side streets. We all know that. The problem is how to alleviate that flow. We will see if our politicians are up to the job. P
Reply ID 72620
quote:I think not. It is suggesting that congestion impacts in the vicinity of the Old Cross juntion could be reduced by providing an improved road layout...........this could be combined with.....Option 1 etc. Nowhere does it suggest any other solutions in the Lower Bengeo area itself, combined or otherwise. It's very simple.Either vote for the Byde Street closure, or vote to Do Nothing. End of.
Originally posted by Razor
Actually, youre quite wrong Buzz, you need to read the leaflet again. If you look again you will notice that the third paragrpah states "This could be COMBINED with either of the following options" The word "combined" refers to various other proposals to improve traffic in the Bengeo area mentioned in the previous paragraph
Reply ID 72624
No, not End of. The whole section refers to "BENGEO Area Proposals". How much clearer does that need to be?! At the end of the day, we both agree the barrier is a bad idea. All I was trying to encourage in my original post was that other people who are opposed to it put forward their views on the subject
Reply ID 72625
Sorry? I don't follow. The roads do not belong to me, or to you. They belong to the State. And the State has a duty of care, to make the roads safe for it's citizens. P
quote:
Originally posted by shunt
There are 3,000 people in Hertford and surrounding area though and the UK as a whole. Once again, I remind you that you did not buy the road when you bought the house. It is not yours, it is ours, all of us. A decision which favours only a small portion of the population at the expense of the majority would be a misuse of political office.
Reply ID 72627
quote:Roads are inanimate. They are niether safe nor unsafe. They are, however, a facility allowing the public to move from one place to another, requiring that they are not obstructed with the intention of assimilation by stealth or insurrection into private use. The residents of the area have, by intent or laziness, introduced hazzards for the public by improper road and footway use which otherwise would not exist. They are irresponsibly endangering life in the hope of bullying an advantage for themselves.
Originally posted by Paul
Sorry? I don't follow. The roads do not belong to me, or to you. They belong to the State. And the State has a duty to do the right thing, to make the roads safe for it's citizens. Pquote:
Originally posted by shunt
There are 3,000 people in Hertford and surrounding area though and the UK as a whole. Once again, I remind you that you did not buy the road when you bought the house. It is not yours, it is ours, all of us. A decision which favours only a small portion of the population at the expense of the majority would be a misuse of political office.
Reply ID 72629
quote:Do you mean 3,000 properties?
Originally posted by shuntquote:There are 3,000 people in Hertford and surrounding area though and the UK as a whole. Once again, I remind you that you did not buy the road when you bought the house. It is not yours, it is ours, all of us. A decision which favours only a small portion of the population at the expense of the majority would be a misuse of political office.
Originally posted by Paul
I think you are mistaken. 3,000 cars travel down the "Hertford Relief Road" every day. There are not 3,000 people in Bengeo affected by the traffic to vote against allowing the Rat Run to continue. But we do not vote politicians in, to do what we want. We vote politicians in, to do what is right. That is why we do not have hanging - or the right to bear arms. It is right not to direct the majority of one side of the town's traffic through suburban side streets. We all know that. The problem is how to alleviate that flow. We will see if our politicians are up to the job. P
Reply ID 72630
quote:They are not! Not living on the "Hertford Relief Road" you won't have seen the violence. The man who had the door panels of his car kicked in for not reversing down the hill. The threats to a women of having her legs broken, for the same reason. The drivers forced to drive into parked cars by bullying van drivers. The two men I know who have been knocked down. And of course the video of the more ordinary transgressions at http://tinyurl.com/ya2bhll P
Originally posted by shunt The residents of the area have, by intent or laziness, introduced hazzards for the public by improper road and footway use which otherwise would not exist. They are irresponsibly endangering life in the hope of bullying an advantage for themselves.
Reply ID 72631
quote:I'm not sure if you are addressing me or Paul, James. I was assuming people, but it matters little. If we closed every road which had more people passing than were in the houses along it's length, there'd be few roads left.
Originally posted by James007quote:Do you mean 3,000 properties?
Originally posted by shuntquote:There are 3,000 people in Hertford and surrounding area though and the UK as a whole. Once again, I remind you that you did not buy the road when you bought the house. It is not yours, it is ours, all of us. A decision which favours only a small portion of the population at the expense of the majority would be a misuse of political office.
Originally posted by Paul
I think you are mistaken. 3,000 cars travel down the "Hertford Relief Road" every day. There are not 3,000 people in Bengeo affected by the traffic to vote against allowing the Rat Run to continue. But we do not vote politicians in, to do what we want. We vote politicians in, to do what is right. That is why we do not have hanging - or the right to bear arms. It is right not to direct the majority of one side of the town's traffic through suburban side streets. We all know that. The problem is how to alleviate that flow. We will see if our politicians are up to the job. P
Reply ID 72632
I was referring to your comment that there are 3,000 people in Hertford and the surrounding area
Reply ID 72633
quote:I'm there every day Paul and well aware of what the problems are and how they are caused. The residents have deliberately created antagonism and an aversarial battle, which inevitably provokes poor behaviour from less patient road users than myself. Thankfully my friends who still live in the area are also containing their anger with the campaigners, but many are just sick to death of this pathetic attempt to gain a private parking place at everybody else's expense. Many have seen it all before.
Originally posted by Paul
quote:They are not! Not living on the "Hertford Relief Road" you won't have seen the violence. The man who had the door panels of his car kicked in for not reversing down the hill. The threats to a women of having her legs broken, for the same reason. The drivers forced to drive into parked cars by bullying van drivers. The two men I know who have been knocked down. And of course the video of the more ordinary transgressions at http://tinyurl.com/ya2bhll P
Originally posted by shunt The residents of the area have, by intent or laziness, introduced hazzards for the public by improper road and footway use which otherwise would not exist. They are irresponsibly endangering life in the hope of bullying an advantage for themselves.
Reply ID 72634
quote:There are 3,000 people many times over. It was a reply to paul's suggestion that Lower Bengeo was an asset purely for the use of the residents of that small section of Hertford alone, which he had estimated to be less than that number.
Originally posted by James007
I was referring to your comment that there are 3,000 people in Hertford and the surrounding area
Reply ID 72638
quote:There! You are condemned by your own words, for all to see. P
Originally posted by shunt I'm there every day Paul and well aware of what the problems are and how they are caused. The residents have deliberately created antagonism and an aversarial battle, which inevitably provokes poor behaviour from less patient road users than myself. Thankfully my friends who still live in the area are also containing their anger with the campaigners, but many are just sick to death of this pathetic attempt to gain a private parking place at everybody else's expense. Many have seen it all before.
Reply ID 72639
quote:You say that the section refers to the Bengeo Area Proposals. Quite right. And then there are NO proposals outlined for the BENGEO area other than the closure of Byde Street. Or perhaps you have some insider knowledge which is not contained in the leaflet. If so, please explain
Originally posted by Razor
No, not End of. The whole section refers to "BENGEO Area Proposals". How much clearer does that need to be?! At the end of the day, we both agree the barrier is a bad idea. All I was trying to encourage in my original post was that other people who are opposed to it put forward their views on the subject
Reply ID 72643
Buzz, either you are having difficulty reading this properly (though I freely admit the leaflet is worded very poorly) or are just very obstinate or perhaps a combination of the two? The second paragraph talks of an improved road layout - it doesnt explain exactly what this is, and no, I dont have any further info on this! Does anyone else think I have misinterpreted what the leaflet is saying?
Reply ID 72644
Obviously there is a problem in Bengeo. A situation where lots of vehicles are attempting to pass through unsuitable residential back streets every day, often at speed, at the same time that children are walking to and from school, is clearly a situation that needs addressing. It's a shame that whenever this problem is aired, it's always the same 3 or 4 voices who come to dominate the discussion with denials that such a problem even exists in the first place, and then actually propose that we should make it easier for more traffic to cut through.
Reply ID 72645
quote:What is wrong with speed bumps and/or other traffic calming measures, together with better enforcement of parking in the area?
Originally posted by dennismoore
Obviously there is a problem in Bengeo. A situation where lots of vehicles are attempting to pass through unsuitable residential back streets every day, often at speed, at the same time that children are walking to and from school, is clearly a situation that needs addressing. It's a shame that whenever this problem is aired, it's always the same 3 or 4 voices who come to dominate the discussion with denials that such a problem even exists in the first place, and then actually propose that we should make it easier for more traffic to cut through.
Reply ID 72646
What is the betting closing Byde Street will just move the problem further up so commuters will park in Westfield Road / Church Road / The Avenue etc if that is a close as they can get. It might help the residents of the Nelson Street area but will make it more difficult for residents in other roads and those who want to use the local roads will be prevented from doing so and Port Hill will become gridlocked even more than it is now. For instance someone in Fanshawe Street wanting to go to Sele would have to go "the long way round" and add to the problems at Old Cross. Maybe they could create a new "bypass" down the steps from The Avenue to Molewood Road, now theres a thought[:D]
Reply ID 72652
Just wait till Sainsbury's open, port hill will be gridlocked, tempting more drivers to "bypass" it
Reply ID 72653
quote:I think your understanding of the form is incorrect. The council are not proposing to look at other measures at all. I think it is important for people who shares the views you outline to write in the comments section that actually you would quite like the council to look into other measures to improve the situation!
Originally posted by Razor
but all I want to say is how important it is for those residents of Hertford/Bengeo who are against this "temporary" closure to take the time to mark the questionnaire "Do nothing". My understanding of the form means they will still look to implement other measures to improve the situation (I agree further measures are desirable)
Reply ID 72655
quote:No, no difficulty in reading the leaflet. It is quite plain..."Based on the findings of the study, it is recommended that congestion impacts in the vicinity of the Old Cross junction could be reduced by providing an improved road layout........" No mention of Bengeo as far as I can see.
Originally posted by Razor
Buzz, either you are having difficulty reading this properly (though I freely admit the leaflet is worded very poorly) or are just very obstinate or perhaps a combination of the two? The second paragraph talks of an improved road layout - it doesnt explain exactly what this is, and no, I dont have any further info on this! Does anyone else think I have misinterpreted what the leaflet is saying?
Reply ID 72661
quote:Well I thought it was (reasonably) clear but obviously that doesnt seem to be case! Anyway, regardless of who is correct, as you say it will therefore be a good idea to write comments in the box! I will certainly be suggesting other measures to be implemented
Originally posted by newcomerquote:I think your understanding of the form is incorrect. The council are not proposing to look at other measures at all. I think it is important for people who shares the views you outline to write in the comments section that actually you would quite like the council to look into other measures to improve the situation!
Originally posted by Razor
but all I want to say is how important it is for those residents of Hertford/Bengeo who are against this "temporary" closure to take the time to mark the questionnaire "Do nothing". My understanding of the form means they will still look to implement other measures to improve the situation (I agree further measures are desirable)
Reply ID 72662
quote:In what way "condemned" ?
Originally posted by Paulquote:There! You are condemned by your own words, for all to see. P
Originally posted by shunt I'm there every day Paul and well aware of what the problems are and how they are caused. The residents have deliberately created antagonism and an aversarial battle, which inevitably provokes poor behaviour from less patient road users than myself. Thankfully my friends who still live in the area are also containing their anger with the campaigners, but many are just sick to death of this pathetic attempt to gain a private parking place at everybody else's expense. Many have seen it all before.
Reply ID 72667
Hi Buzz have you read the title of the piece in this leaflet? Bengeo Area Proposals.
quote:
Originally posted by buzzquote:No, no difficulty in reading the leaflet. It is quite plain..."Based on the findings of the study, it is recommended that congestion impacts in the vicinity of the Old Cross junction could be reduced by providing an improved road layout........" No mention of Bengeo as far as I can see.
Originally posted by Razor
Buzz, either you are having difficulty reading this properly (though I freely admit the leaflet is worded very poorly) or are just very obstinate or perhaps a combination of the two? The second paragraph talks of an improved road layout - it doesnt explain exactly what this is, and no, I dont have any further info on this! Does anyone else think I have misinterpreted what the leaflet is saying?
Reply ID 72668
quote:Traffic calming would be better than nothing, but stopping traffic cutting through altogether and making it stay on the main road is what's really needed in my opinion.
Originally posted by Razorquote:What is wrong with speed bumps and/or other traffic calming measures, together with better enforcement of parking in the area?
Originally posted by dennismoore
Obviously there is a problem in Bengeo. A situation where lots of vehicles are attempting to pass through unsuitable residential back streets every day, often at speed, at the same time that children are walking to and from school, is clearly a situation that needs addressing. It's a shame that whenever this problem is aired, it's always the same 3 or 4 voices who come to dominate the discussion with denials that such a problem even exists in the first place, and then actually propose that we should make it easier for more traffic to cut through.
Reply ID 72669
quote:Ok. Apart from the proposal to close Byde Street, what exactly are the Bengeo Area Proposals. Perhaps, Night Owl, you could enlighten us?
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Buzz have you read the title of the piece in this leaflet? Bengeo Area Proposals.quote:
Originally posted by buzzquote:No, no difficulty in reading the leaflet. It is quite plain..."Based on the findings of the study, it is recommended that congestion impacts in the vicinity of the Old Cross junction could be reduced by providing an improved road layout........" No mention of Bengeo as far as I can see.
Originally posted by Razor
Buzz, either you are having difficulty reading this properly (though I freely admit the leaflet is worded very poorly) or are just very obstinate or perhaps a combination of the two? The second paragraph talks of an improved road layout - it doesnt explain exactly what this is, and no, I dont have any further info on this! Does anyone else think I have misinterpreted what the leaflet is saying?
Reply ID 72671
quote:"Highway".... A 'Highway' is a way over which the public has a right to pass and re-pass by foot, horse or vehicle, or with animals. (Lang-v-Hindhaugh) [1986] RTR 271. Perhaps they forgot to add "unless the local residents don't like the idea, in which case they may feel free to obstruct said Highway with vehicles abandoned all over the place". How very remiss of them
Originally posted by dennismoorequote:Traffic calming would be better than nothing, but stopping traffic cutting through altogether and making it stay on the main road is what's really needed in my opinion.
Originally posted by Razorquote:What is wrong with speed bumps and/or other traffic calming measures, together with better enforcement of parking in the area?
Originally posted by dennismoore
Obviously there is a problem in Bengeo. A situation where lots of vehicles are attempting to pass through unsuitable residential back streets every day, often at speed, at the same time that children are walking to and from school, is clearly a situation that needs addressing. It's a shame that whenever this problem is aired, it's always the same 3 or 4 voices who come to dominate the discussion with denials that such a problem even exists in the first place, and then actually propose that we should make it easier for more traffic to cut through.
Reply ID 72672
I have never understood why residents in favour of a barrier would want to inconvenience themselves so much. I mean those living south of any proposed barrier(which I understand would be put in immediately below the Farquhar/Fanshawe junctions with Byde Street) in order to exit north towards Ware/A10 to pick up the A120, would have to take a route down Byde St, Wellington, Nelson, Beane, turn left at the station down North Road and into the queuing traffic up to St. Andrews St, where they queue up to the Old Cross lights. Then around and up Port Hill to get to the Cross Road junction where they could have been five minutes ago (in rush hour) without chucking all that extra co2 into the environment. The option is to park their cars above the barrier and increase the frustration of those residents in what has become the station overflow car park. For those with off street parking, that option increases insurance premiums because they are now parking on the street. As for those moaners who complain about the terrible parking, just appreciate that society has changed and that everyone has at least one car these days - for better or worse. Live with it, accept that driving through the cut through will also take some time and require caution and remember that you are saving five minutes off your journey.
Reply ID 72673
quote:That's all very well, but of little help to those like myself who go to and from Lower Bengeo, rather than through it. The problem is residents parking. There is no other issue, which is not a direct result of that.
Originally posted by dennismoorequote:Traffic calming would be better than nothing, but stopping traffic cutting through altogether and making it stay on the main road is what's really needed in my opinion.
Originally posted by Razorquote:What is wrong with speed bumps and/or other traffic calming measures, together with better enforcement of parking in the area?
Originally posted by dennismoore
Obviously there is a problem in Bengeo. A situation where lots of vehicles are attempting to pass through unsuitable residential back streets every day, often at speed, at the same time that children are walking to and from school, is clearly a situation that needs addressing. It's a shame that whenever this problem is aired, it's always the same 3 or 4 voices who come to dominate the discussion with denials that such a problem even exists in the first place, and then actually propose that we should make it easier for more traffic to cut through.
Reply ID 72674
Why don't we form a vigilante rebel force and drive our 4x4's all round bengeo 24 hours a day, ignoring all the restrictions - just for fun [:o)][:)]
Reply ID 72675
I have to agree the residents parking added to by commuters is the problem. If there was no on street parking there would be enough space for traffic and pedestrains. Double yellow lines all down Byde Street , Wellington Street and Nelson Street could be the answer......make it safer for the pedestrians.[:D] A barrier will just turn it in to a bigger car park than it already is. Not sure lobra or whatever they call themselves ould agree with me though.........
Reply ID 72681
Hi Buzz I suggest you read the leaflet properly and contact them about anything that you do not understand as I think everyone else who read this understood what area they are refering to and why!
quote:
Originally posted by buzzquote:Ok. Apart from the proposal to close Byde Street, what exactly are the Bengeo Area Proposals. Perhaps, Night Owl, you could enlighten us?
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Buzz have you read the title of the piece in this leaflet? Bengeo Area Proposals.quote:
Originally posted by buzzquote:No, no difficulty in reading the leaflet. It is quite plain..."Based on the findings of the study, it is recommended that congestion impacts in the vicinity of the Old Cross junction could be reduced by providing an improved road layout........" No mention of Bengeo as far as I can see.
Originally posted by Razor
Buzz, either you are having difficulty reading this properly (though I freely admit the leaflet is worded very poorly) or are just very obstinate or perhaps a combination of the two? The second paragraph talks of an improved road layout - it doesnt explain exactly what this is, and no, I dont have any further info on this! Does anyone else think I have misinterpreted what the leaflet is saying?
Reply ID 72682
quote:Don't 4 x 4 drivers do that anyway? [:p]
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
Why don't we form a vigilante rebel force and drive our 4x4's all round bengeo 24 hours a day, ignoring all the restrictions - just for fun [:o)][:)]
Reply ID 72686
Only when fuel is cheap enough [:D]
Reply ID 72687
quote:But Night Owl, you so obviously understand all the proposals listed that I do not........why do you not enlighten me with your knowledge?
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Buzz I suggest you read the leaflet properly and contact them about anything that you do not understand as I think everyone else who read this understood what area they are refering to and why!quote:
Originally posted by buzzquote:Ok. Apart from the proposal to close Byde Street, what exactly are the Bengeo Area Proposals. Perhaps, Night Owl, you could enlighten us?
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Buzz have you read the title of the piece in this leaflet? Bengeo Area Proposals.quote:
Originally posted by buzzquote:No, no difficulty in reading the leaflet. It is quite plain..."Based on the findings of the study, it is recommended that congestion impacts in the vicinity of the Old Cross junction could be reduced by providing an improved road layout........" No mention of Bengeo as far as I can see.
Originally posted by Razor
Buzz, either you are having difficulty reading this properly (though I freely admit the leaflet is worded very poorly) or are just very obstinate or perhaps a combination of the two? The second paragraph talks of an improved road layout - it doesnt explain exactly what this is, and no, I dont have any further info on this! Does anyone else think I have misinterpreted what the leaflet is saying?
Reply ID 72688
quote:
Originally posted by buzzquote:But Night Owl, you so obviously understand all the proposals listed that I do not........why do you not enlighten me with your knowledge?
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Buzz I suggest you read the leaflet properly and contact them about anything that you do not understand as I think everyone else who read this understood what area they are refering to and why!quote:
Originally posted by buzzquote:Ok. Apart from the proposal to close Byde Street, what exactly are the Bengeo Area Proposals. Perhaps, Night Owl, you could enlighten us?
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Buzz have you read the title of the piece in this leaflet? Bengeo Area Proposals.quote:
Originally posted by buzzquote:No, no difficulty in reading the leaflet. It is quite plain..."Based on the findings of the study, it is recommended that congestion impacts in the vicinity of the Old Cross junction could be reduced by providing an improved road layout........" No mention of Bengeo as far as I can see.
Originally posted by Razor
Buzz, either you are having difficulty reading this properly (though I freely admit the leaflet is worded very poorly) or are just very obstinate or perhaps a combination of the two? The second paragraph talks of an improved road layout - it doesnt explain exactly what this is, and no, I dont have any further info on this! Does anyone else think I have misinterpreted what the leaflet is saying?
Reply ID 72692
If the problem is residents parking PLUS commuter parking then wouldn't one of the best solutions be to incorporate a residents parking scheme?
Reply ID 72694
quote:Because that isn't the problem. Come to Nelson Street at noon any weekday you will find the street half empty. Come down at midnight you will have go, round and round the block. Of course if you subtract the existing yellow lines and off street parking between Byde Street through all roads down to the beginning of Beane Road, there is already, only half the existing parking space left. P
Originally posted by Harran
If the problem is residents parking PLUS commuter parking then wouldn't one of the best solutions be to incorporate a residents parking scheme?
Reply ID 72696
Hi Buzz what dont you understand about Bengeo Area Proposals? Oh sorry this has nothing to do with Bengeo according to you or do you have a problem reading or understanding english? There are two proposals, Option one is for the temporary closure of Byde street, Bengeo,I have put Bengeo in so you now know where it is, and Option two is do nothing, now do you understand that? If you find these options so difficult please feel free to contact Hertfordshire Highways who will answer any questions you may have and you can phone phone them on 0300 1234 4040. I trust you are now enlightend.
Reply ID 72697
This is the whole point I have been making, but you don't seem to have the intelligence to see that! I suggest you read the previous threads on this subject. The point about the Old Cross layout does not have anything to do with Bengeo, other than the fact that the planners have suggested that combining the proposal of closing Byde Street with improving the situation at Old Cross might improve traffic flow. Now. Go back, read your previous comments, and answer my question: other than closing Byde St, what other proposals are there for Bengeo?
Reply ID 72698
quote:So we are back to square one, from what you say the problem is residents with 1 or 2 cars and no obvious parking place that comes with their houses. They then want the road closed off to "through traffic" so they can park their cars.
Originally posted by Paulquote:Because that isn't the problem. Come to Nelson Street at noon any weekday you will find the street half empty. Come down at midnight you will have go, round and round the block. Of course if you subtract the existing yellow lines and off street parking between Byde Street through all roads down to the beginning of Beane Road, there is already, only half the existing parking space left. P
Originally posted by Harran
If the problem is residents parking PLUS commuter parking then wouldn't one of the best solutions be to incorporate a residents parking scheme?
Reply ID 72706
quote:How would closing the road off increase the parking space? P
Originally posted by Marilyn So we are back to square one, from what you say the problem is residents with 1 or 2 cars and no obvious parking place that comes with their houses. They then want the road closed off to "through traffic" so they can park their cars.
Reply ID 72707
quote:... but let's discuss it some more, with lots of people repeating over and over what they've said before. I'm not sure further discussion is going to resolve this issue, especially with so many people taking entrenched positions.
Originally posted by Razor
I know this issue has already been discussed ad infinitum...
Reply ID 72708
quote:I dont think it will "increase" the number of spaces, but it would mean that the residents and/or commuters could park illegally/inconsiderately without having the added burden of vehicles passing closely by! It may however put some commuters off, those that may be accessing Byde Street from the North so in that sense it would increase the spaces. Why dont the residents petition for inclusion in the CPZ to stop the commuters? Then there would be less cars parked there and the residents could park legally and things wouldnt get so snarled at busy times. Edited - to remove typos.
Originally posted by Paulquote:How would closing the road off increase the parking space? P
Originally posted by Marilyn So we are back to square one, from what you say the problem is residents with 1 or 2 cars and no obvious parking place that comes with their houses. They then want the road closed off to "through traffic" so they can park their cars.
Reply ID 72709
quote:Yes, I know it has somewhat opened up the can of worms again. That was not my intention. I really just wanted to highlight that anyone with an interest in this should take the time to fill in and send back the leaflet, with comments as appropriate!
Originally posted by Stevequote:... but let's discuss it some more, with lots of people repeating over and over what they've said before. I'm not sure further discussion is going to resolve this issue, especially with so many people taking entrenched positions.
Originally posted by Razor
I know this issue has already been discussed ad infinitum...
Reply ID 72710
quote:I dont think this to-ing and fro-ing with you Buzz is very productive, and as Steve has said this has dragged on a bit, but to my mind (and that of the Highways clearly) the Old Cross Layout has everything to with Bengeo and the proposal to close Byde Street. Where do you think all the (legitimate, such as myself) traffic would have to go if Byde Street was closed? Can you not see that the two are linked? That junction will be even busier when the sainsburys is opened, Byde Street being open or not.
Originally posted by buzz
This is the whole point I have been making, but you don't seem to have the intelligence to see that! I suggest you read the previous threads on this subject. The point about the Old Cross layout does not have anything to do with Bengeo, other than the fact that the planners have suggested that combining the proposal of closing Byde Street with improving the situation at Old Cross might improve traffic flow. Now. Go back, read your previous comments, and answer my question: other than closing Byde St, what other proposals are there for Bengeo?
Reply ID 72714
Oh Dear (sigh)... You guys don't really understand. In the day when commuters might be parking - they don't because there is too much risk of damage to their cars, the rat run is half empty (as Nelson Street is now 13:36). At night when commuters are safely tucked up in bed (01:00), roads are chokker with parked cars (residents' own cars). How can CPZ help that? P
quote:
Originally posted by Razor I dont think it will "increase" the number of spaces, but it would mean that the residents and/or commuters could park illegally/inconsiderately without having the added buden of vehicles passing closely by! It may however put some cummuters off, those that may be accessing Byde Street from the North so in that sense it would increase the spaces. Why dont the residents petition for inclusion in the CPZ to stop the commuters? Then there would be less cars parked there and the residents could park legally and things wouldnt get so snarled at busy times.
Reply ID 72722
quote:Beacuse no one will worry if anything can psss, if emergancy vehicles, recycling vehicles etc can get in it would cause parking down both sides of all roads even more than now. Balfour Street is already difficult to access and all the other roads would become the same.
Originally posted by Paulquote:How would closing the road off increase the parking space? P
Originally posted by Marilyn So we are back to square one, from what you say the problem is residents with 1 or 2 cars and no obvious parking place that comes with their houses. They then want the road closed off to "through traffic" so they can park their cars.
Reply ID 72726
quote:Alright, fair enough, well if that is the case then the problem is just too many residents cars blocking the pavements/roads?!
Originally posted by Paul
Oh Dear (sigh)... You guys don't really understand. In the day when commuters might be parking - they don't because there is too much risk of damage to their cars, the rat run is half empty (as Nelson Street is now 13:36). At night when commuters are safely tucked up in bed (01:00), roads are chokker with parked cars (residents' own cars). How can CPZ help that? Pquote:
Originally posted by Razor I dont think it will "increase" the number of spaces, but it would mean that the residents and/or commuters could park illegally/inconsiderately without having the added burden of vehicles passing closely by! It may however put some commuters off, those that may be accessing Byde Street from the North so in that sense it would increase the spaces. Why dont the residents petition for inclusion in the CPZ to stop the commuters? Then there would be less cars parked there and the residents could park legally and things wouldnt get so snarled at busy times.
Reply ID 72729
quote:Exactly whichever way you go round it always comes back to too many residents cars without parking space. Most knew that when they purchased the houses so why should the road be closed to please them.
Originally posted by Razorquote:Alright, fair enough, well if that is the case then the problem is just too many residents cars blocking the pavements/roads?!
Originally posted by Paul
Oh Dear (sigh)... You guys don't really understand. In the day when commuters might be parking - they don't because there is too much risk of damage to their cars, the rat run is half empty (as Nelson Street is now 13:36). At night when commuters are safely tucked up in bed (01:00), roads are chokker with parked cars (residents' own cars). How can CPZ help that? Pquote:
Originally posted by Razor I dont think it will "increase" the number of spaces, but it would mean that the residents and/or commuters could park illegally/inconsiderately without having the added burden of vehicles passing closely by! It may however put some commuters off, those that may be accessing Byde Street from the North so in that sense it would increase the spaces. Why dont the residents petition for inclusion in the CPZ to stop the commuters? Then there would be less cars parked there and the residents could park legally and things wouldnt get so snarled at busy times.
Reply ID 72730
Actually, it always comes back to too many drivers ignoring the clear 'Access Only' signs. Not sure where the law stands on disregarding road signs, but I'm sure the police have more important things to do. Personally I've always found cars that are moving more of a danger than the ones that are parked.
Reply ID 72731
I see that the council in it’s infinite wisdom has stopped issuing residents parking permits for the Port Vale car park. More income for the council at the expense of it’s residents and more pressure for the on street spaces in the area. Well done EHDC!
Reply ID 72734
quote:The stats from the HWUTP Report appear to bare this up if Bengeo has similar car ownership as is the norm for Hertford:
Originally posted by Marilyn
Exactly whichever way you go round it always comes back to too many residents cars without parking space. Most knew that when they purchased the houses so why should the road be closed to please them.
Reply ID 72736
I have the answer ... MONSTER TRUCKS [:D]
Reply ID 72737
quote:Exactly Marilyn. They have to take the rough with the smooth. This barrier nonsense is rubbish. Are people telling me that just because Mr and Mrs Johnny English, with their big large driveway, near a rather congested road should be allowed to moan enough and have a barrier installed? The silly old sods should grab a handle. Next thing it'll be campaigning for the closure of Hertford North Station.
Originally posted by Marilynquote:Exactly whichever way you go round it always comes back to too many residents cars without parking space. Most knew that when they purchased the houses so why should the road be closed to please them.
Originally posted by Razorquote:Alright, fair enough, well if that is the case then the problem is just too many residents cars blocking the pavements/roads?!
Originally posted by Paul
Oh Dear (sigh)... You guys don't really understand. In the day when commuters might be parking - they don't because there is too much risk of damage to their cars, the rat run is half empty (as Nelson Street is now 13:36). At night when commuters are safely tucked up in bed (01:00), roads are chokker with parked cars (residents' own cars). How can CPZ help that? Pquote:
Originally posted by Razor I dont think it will "increase" the number of spaces, but it would mean that the residents and/or commuters could park illegally/inconsiderately without having the added burden of vehicles passing closely by! It may however put some commuters off, those that may be accessing Byde Street from the North so in that sense it would increase the spaces. Why dont the residents petition for inclusion in the CPZ to stop the commuters? Then there would be less cars parked there and the residents could park legally and things wouldnt get so snarled at busy times.
Reply ID 72751
quote:
Originally posted by buzz
This is the whole point I have been making, but you don't seem to have the intelligence to see that! I suggest you read the previous threads on this subject. The point about the Old Cross layout does not have anything to do with Bengeo, other than the fact that the planners have suggested that combining the proposal of closing Byde Street with improving the situation at Old Cross might improve traffic flow. Now. Go back, read your previous comments, and answer my question: other than closing Byde St, what other proposals are there for Bengeo? Hi Buzz you have not followed my thread at all which is about what you said about this " No mention of Bengeo as far as I can see" in reference to the said article and I pointed out the title to you which you clearly got wrong. You seem to be unable to grasp what Option two means when they say do nothing? Well I think it means do nothing and nothing will be done as in installing a barrier and no temporary closure of Byde Street, so if you do not understand this now you never will, and if you are thinking of an answer please use option two. [:D]
Reply ID 72752
quote:Go back to page 1 of this thread. Read my post, it's the 7th one listed. Which part of it do you not understand? I do not intend to continue this discussion with you, as I appear to be banging my head against a brick wall!!
Originally posted by night owlquote:
Originally posted by buzz
This is the whole point I have been making, but you don't seem to have the intelligence to see that! I suggest you read the previous threads on this subject. The point about the Old Cross layout does not have anything to do with Bengeo, other than the fact that the planners have suggested that combining the proposal of closing Byde Street with improving the situation at Old Cross might improve traffic flow. Now. Go back, read your previous comments, and answer my question: other than closing Byde St, what other proposals are there for Bengeo? Hi Buzz you have not followed my thread at all which is about what you said about this " No mention of Bengeo as far as I can see" in reference to the said article and I pointed out the title to you which you clearly got wrong. You seem to be unable to grasp what Option two means when they say do nothing? Well I think it means do nothing and nothing will be done as in installing a barrier and no temporary closure of Byde Street, so if you do not understand this now you never will, and if you are thinking of an answer please use option two. [:D]
Reply ID 72764
quote:Wow! They built that barrier quick. [:D]
Originally posted by buzz
. . . I appear to be banging my head against a brick wall!!
Reply ID 72784
Hi Buzz one minute you claim not to know what the options are the next go back to page one and clearly you do know so what are you asking me for? You are sounding a bit confused, have you found the bit in the title of the article that you claim does not refer to Bengeo yet? And the title being Bengeo Area Proposals!
Reply ID 72788
Just as a side note if the council install a barrier in Byde St it will not be temporary. The council decided to changed Tower St into a one way st as a trail. 2 years on and it's still 'in trial' as I've never has a letter to say they are making it permanant...Got to say it has worked though. So, if they do decided to put a barrier up it will be for good and not a 'trial period' at all...They haven't changed the 'no right turn' into Cross Rd either..
Reply ID 72793
quote:I witnessed four cars 'do' a right turn into Cross Road this morning - so I'm not sure many people take notice anyway - except when the Police have a purge on it..
Originally posted by Bubbaoshea
Just as a side note if the council install a barrier in Byde St it will not be temporary. The council decided to changed Tower St into a one way st as a trail. 2 years on and it's still 'in trial' as I've never has a letter to say they are making it permanant...Got to say it has worked though. So, if they do decided to put a barrier up it will be for good and not a 'trial period' at all...They haven't changed the 'no right turn' into Cross Rd either..
Reply ID 72804
quote:That happens every morning as you say no one takes any notice any more bar those of us who live in the area. Probably needs another police presence morning that would give them some easy extra income!
Originally posted by Artyquote:I witnessed four cars 'do' a right turn into Cross Road this morning - so I'm not sure many people take notice anyway - except when the Police have a purge on it..
Originally posted by Bubbaoshea
Just as a side note if the council install a barrier in Byde St it will not be temporary. The council decided to changed Tower St into a one way st as a trail. 2 years on and it's still 'in trial' as I've never has a letter to say they are making it permanant...Got to say it has worked though. So, if they do decided to put a barrier up it will be for good and not a 'trial period' at all...They haven't changed the 'no right turn' into Cross Rd either..
Reply ID 73135
This might have been spoken of on here before now so apologies if I'm repeating someone else. Why would the council not use the old railway line and turn that into a one or two way road? Think it comes out at junction of Molewood and port vale and would go through land that is not being used. This then would save everyone from going via the rat run and also having to go through town if rat run was closed. Sure the smart folk at County Hall have already thought of this though…..
Reply ID 73139
quote:The infamous 'Northern Relief Road' was pencilled in here for many years in the 80's/90's I believe. Very contoversial and much discussed at the time, it could never be justified in any shape or form.
Originally posted by teddylad
This might have been spoken of on here before now so apologies if I'm repeating someone else. Why would the council not use the old railway line and turn that into a one or two way road? Think it comes out at junction of Molewood and port vale and would go through land that is not being used. This then would save everyone from going via the rat run and also having to go through town if rat run was closed. Sure the smart folk at County Hall have already thought of this though…..
Reply ID 73140
quote:Part of the land has been built on.
Originally posted by teddylad
This might have been spoken of on here before now so apologies if I'm repeating someone else. Why would the council not use the old railway line and turn that into a one or two way road? Think it comes out at junction of Molewood and port vale and would go through land that is not being used. This then would save everyone from going via the rat run and also having to go through town if rat run was closed. Sure the smart folk at County Hall have already thought of this though…..
Reply ID 73144
quote:And the rest (under Balfour Street) was sold by the BR Residuary Board sometime last year. No one seems to know who bought it or what they intend to do with it.
Originally posted by Stevequote:Part of the land has been built on.
Originally posted by teddylad
This might have been spoken of on here before now so apologies if I'm repeating someone else. Why would the council not use the old railway line and turn that into a one or two way road? Think it comes out at junction of Molewood and port vale and would go through land that is not being used. This then would save everyone from going via the rat run and also having to go through town if rat run was closed. Sure the smart folk at County Hall have already thought of this though…..
Reply ID 73147
quote:Although this suggestion doesnt appear to be viable, I would urge you and anyone else who has a view on the barrier (either against or for) to let the Highways authority know, either by filling the paper leaflet, or the online one and adding comments in the appropriate section. It is also very worthwhile emailing Ian Thompson directly (Ian.Thompson(AT)hertshighways.org.uk) and indeed Councillors Sally Newton/Peter Ruffles with your views on the subject. The Highways authority will be taking into account peoples views so it is really important (for anyone that cares obviously) to make your feelings known...
Originally posted by teddylad
This might have been spoken of on here before now so apologies if I'm repeating someone else. Why would the council not use the old railway line and turn that into a one or two way road? Think it comes out at junction of Molewood and port vale and would go through land that is not being used. This then would save everyone from going via the rat run and also having to go through town if rat run was closed. Sure the smart folk at County Hall have already thought of this though…..
Reply ID 73152
Do you really think that the views of the public will sway the judgment one way or the other? If that were the case, then we would have a "referendum" situation, and this case has been denied separately by both Ian Thompson and Sally Newton. Which of course begs the question, why have a vote in the first place? A sop to a gullible public? P
quote:
Originally posted by Razor Although this suggestion doesnt appear to be viable, I would urge you and anyone else who has a view on the barrier (either against or for) to let the Highways authority know, either by filling the paper leaflet, or the online one and adding comments in the appropriate section. It is also very worthwhile emailing Ian Thompson directly (Ian.Thompson(AT)hertshighways.org.uk) and indeed Councillors Sally Newton/Peter Ruffles with your views on the subject. The Highways authority will be taking into account peoples views so it is really important (for anyone that cares obviously) to make your feelings known...
Reply ID 73153
quote:That is what I had understood from Ian Thompson but I may be wrong. As you say, if not, what is the point of voting/commenting? I would advise erring on the other side of your scepticism just in case...
Originally posted by Paul
Do you really think that the views of the public will sway the judgment one way or the other? If that were the case, then we would have a "referendum" situation, and this case has been denied separately by both Ian Thompson and Sally Newton. Which of course begs the question, why have a vote in the first place? A sop to a gullible public? Pquote:
Originally posted by Razor Although this suggestion doesnt appear to be viable, I would urge you and anyone else who has a view on the barrier (either against or for) to let the Highways authority know, either by filling the paper leaflet, or the online one and adding comments in the appropriate section. It is also very worthwhile emailing Ian Thompson directly (Ian.Thompson(AT)hertshighways.org.uk) and indeed Councillors Sally Newton/Peter Ruffles with your views on the subject. The Highways authority will be taking into account peoples views so it is really important (for anyone that cares obviously) to make your feelings known...
Reply ID 73158
quote:If you take the logic further, having a referendum is pointless too. Far more people use the rat run than suffer it. Therefore if it was decided on a vote, the outcome would be obvious, but Sally Newton has asked for a viable and permanent change to improve the situation for the residents. And what is the point of being a Councillor if you do not use your powers, but let the public decide everything for you? P
Originally posted by Razorquote:That is what I had understood from Ian Thompson but I may be wrong. As you say, if not, what is the point of voting/commenting? I would advise erring on the other side of your scepticism just in case...
Originally posted by Paul
Do you really think that the views of the public will sway the judgment one way or the other? If that were the case, then we would have a "referendum" situation, and this case has been denied separately by both Ian Thompson and Sally Newton. Which of course begs the question, why have a vote in the first place? A sop to a gullible public? Pquote:
Originally posted by Razor Although this suggestion doesnt appear to be viable, I would urge you and anyone else who has a view on the barrier (either against or for) to let the Highways authority know, either by filling the paper leaflet, or the online one and adding comments in the appropriate section. It is also very worthwhile emailing Ian Thompson directly (Ian.Thompson(AT)hertshighways.org.uk) and indeed Councillors Sally Newton/Peter Ruffles with your views on the subject. The Highways authority will be taking into account peoples views so it is really important (for anyone that cares obviously) to make your feelings known...
Reply ID 73171
The is my first time on this sight and I can't believe what I am reading.It is time we took the bull by the horns!!!!!!!!! 1:The only solution to Bengeo rat run is to close Byde Sreet. 2:The roads in Lower Bengeo were designed for horse and cart and not modern traffic. 3:It must be murder living in the affected roads during rush hours. 4:The only reason people park in Lower Bengeo is because there are to few offical spaces, we should encourage more parking so people who obviously want to use the train can park with ease. 5:Since the turning restrictions into Cross Roads the traffic now pours past Bengeo Junior School at peak times and down The Avenue,this won't be stopped by traffic calming measures. 6:Children at the junior school are now put at risk when we are all trying to encourage walking to school. In conclusion we must close Byde Street asap and try to return to some traffic sanity rather than letting people cut through totally unsuitable roads in an effort to save a few minutes.
Reply ID 73172
Traffic Lights! Put one set at the end of Beane Road and one set in Byde Street by the Cross Road. Sorted! [:)]
Reply ID 73174
quote:You may be called Steven Wright, but you are most certainly Steven WRONG! Roads are made for people to travel along, not block by illegal parking. The only solution is to have double yellow lines (or indeed red lines) and enforce them. The streets are not meant as parking places, and technically, any vehicle parked on a road is causing an illegal obstruction, unless they have lawful authority or reasonable excuse. The vehicles parked on the "rat run" have neither.
Originally posted by Stephen Wright
The is my first time on this sight and I can't believe what I am reading.It is time we took the bull by the horns!!!!!!!!! 1:The only solution to Bengeo rat run is to close Byde Sreet. 2:The roads in Lower Bengeo were designed for horse and cart and not modern traffic. 3:It must be murder living in the affected roads during rush hours. 4:The only reason people park in Lower Bengeo is because there are to few offical spaces, we should encourage more parking so people who obviously want to use the train can park with ease. 5:Since the turning restrictions into Cross Roads the traffic now pours past Bengeo Junior School at peak times and down The Avenue,this won't be stopped by traffic calming measures. 6:Children at the junior school are now put at risk when we are all trying to encourage walking to school. In conclusion we must close Byde Street asap and try to return to some traffic sanity rather than letting people cut through totally unsuitable roads in an effort to save a few minutes.
Reply ID 73175
Hi Steven Welcome to the World of Hurt :-) P (Buzz does like the sound of quashed children in the morning)
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen Wright
The is my first time on this sight and I can't believe what I am reading.It is time we took the bull by the horns!!!!!!!!! 1:The only solution to Bengeo rat run is to close Byde Sreet. 2:The roads in Lower Bengeo were designed for horse and cart and not modern traffic. 3:It must be murder living in the affected roads during rush hours. 4:The only reason people park in Lower Bengeo is because there are to few offical spaces, we should encourage more parking so people who obviously want to use the train can park with ease. 5:Since the turning restrictions into Cross Roads the traffic now pours past Bengeo Junior School at peak times and down The Avenue,this won't be stopped by traffic calming measures. 6:Children at the junior school are now put at risk when we are all trying to encourage walking to school. In conclusion we must close Byde Street asap and try to return to some traffic sanity rather than letting people cut through totally unsuitable roads in an effort to save a few minutes.
Reply ID 73180
quote:Much as the sound of squashed children is appealing, it would'nt happen if the kids were not forced to walk in the roads due to cars parked on the footpaths
Originally posted by Paul
Hi Steven Welcome to the World of Hurt :-) P (Buzz does like the sound of quashed children in the morning)quote:
Originally posted by Stephen Wright
The is my first time on this sight and I can't believe what I am reading.It is time we took the bull by the horns!!!!!!!!! 1:The only solution to Bengeo rat run is to close Byde Sreet. 2:The roads in Lower Bengeo were designed for horse and cart and not modern traffic. 3:It must be murder living in the affected roads during rush hours. 4:The only reason people park in Lower Bengeo is because there are to few offical spaces, we should encourage more parking so people who obviously want to use the train can park with ease. 5:Since the turning restrictions into Cross Roads the traffic now pours past Bengeo Junior School at peak times and down The Avenue,this won't be stopped by traffic calming measures. 6:Children at the junior school are now put at risk when we are all trying to encourage walking to school. In conclusion we must close Byde Street asap and try to return to some traffic sanity rather than letting people cut through totally unsuitable roads in an effort to save a few minutes.
Reply ID 73182
quote:ps - welcome to HOL.
Originally posted by Stephen Wright
The (sic) is my first time on this sight (sic) and I can't believe what I am reading. Why? Do you have a bias towards one side of this debate or are you looking at this objectively from both sides and looking to develop a solution acceptable to all who use this route? It is time we took the bull by the horns!!!!!!!!! 1:The only solution to Bengeo rat run is to close Byde Street. Is it? Or was this the only solution you could come up with? Why not remove the illegal parking? Should we close every public highway because of the act of a minority? 2:The roads in Lower Bengeo were designed for horse and cart and not modern traffic. True - we have moved on technologically though retain a passion for older things, such as attractive Victorian design, with large gardens though no off-street car-parking. A compromise is required. You propose to close the road. An alternative polarised view would be to pull everything down and re-build for the modern lifestyle. How about apartments, or multi-level town houses with smaller gardens and off-street parking. And let's ensure we repeat this every 50 years or so because we simply can't keep up with ourselves can we? Or, should there be a compulsory order to access these large rear gardens, so as to provide proper car-parking for the residents and their cars? Or,developing Teddy Lad's idea, change the remaining former rail line into a residents car-park, funded by their fees, thus freeing the streets of illegally parked traffic? 3:It must be murder living in the affected roads during rush hours. I would suggest that if the residents continue to obstruct the highway illegally then it is more lemming-like suicide than murder. 4:The only reason people park in Lower Bengeo is because there are too few official spaces, we should encourage more parking so people who obviously want to use the train can park with ease. From what we have read here previously, there are many multi-vehicle households and the main reason for the parking is that the residents believe they have an entitlement to park outside their homes, irrespective of the legality of this. There is a morning exodus from Bengeo as people commute to work and a frustrating evening circus for the latecomers of hunt the illegal parking gap. In some of these morning spaces come rail-commuters who wish to avoid the car-parking charges from FCC, or the cheaper option at The Bridge House. If there was excess demand for parking by rail-users would the land directly opposite have been sold-off, or an application for car-parking sought instead? If there is too much non-resident parking then why are the roads clearer during the day? Or, as above, in order to enable the residents to own cars and park them close to their homes should we use available land and develop this for residents car-parking to remove the obstructions on the highway? 5:Since the turning restrictions into Cross Roads the traffic now pours past Bengeo Junior School at peak times and down The Avenue,this won't be stopped by traffic calming measures. [?] So why do you suggest that Byde Street be closed if this will not have any impact here? 6:Children at the junior school are now put at risk when we are all trying to encourage walking to school. Agreed. [Hooray [:)]] In conclusion we must close Byde Street asap and try to return to some traffic sanity rather than letting people cut through totally unsuitable roads in an effort to save a few minutes. No. Traffic sanity is achieved through removing obstacles from the highway, not removing the highway. The roads are entirely suitable with sufficient room for two vehicles to pass. It is the illegally parked vehicles that are causing an obstruction. If I have athlete's foot do I amputate my foot or do I use an anti-fungal treatment to clear the infection?
Reply ID 73183
Ha!!! P
quote:
Much as the sound of squashed children is appealing, it would'nt happen if the kids were not forced to walk in the roads due to cars parked on the footpaths
Reply ID 73184
As I said, Steven. "Welcome to the World of Hurt" :-( P
Reply ID 73185
quote:[:D] I must remember not to hold, or express an opposing view in future in case it offends or causes suffering.
Originally posted by Paul
As I said, Steven "Welcome to the World of Hurt" P
Reply ID 73186
Good Idea! P
quote:
[:D] I must remember not to hold, or express an opposing view in future in case it offends or causes suffering.
Reply ID 73187
quote:You forgot to add the fact that it will increase the value of your home [:)]
Originally posted by Stephen Wright
The is my first time on this sight and I can't believe what I am reading.It is time we took the bull by the horns!!!!!!!!! 1:The only solution to Bengeo rat run is to close Byde Sreet. 2:The roads in Lower Bengeo were designed for horse and cart and not modern traffic. 3:It must be murder living in the affected roads during rush hours. 4:The only reason people park in Lower Bengeo is because there are to few offical spaces, we should encourage more parking so people who obviously want to use the train can park with ease. 5:Since the turning restrictions into Cross Roads the traffic now pours past Bengeo Junior School at peak times and down The Avenue,this won't be stopped by traffic calming measures. 6:Children at the junior school are now put at risk when we are all trying to encourage walking to school. In conclusion we must close Byde Street asap and try to return to some traffic sanity rather than letting people cut through totally unsuitable roads in an effort to save a few minutes.
Reply ID 73189
quote:I think the adding value to the home argument is a non-argument. The reason residents want this is as a last resort to stop people driving through the roads. In my opinion a barrier would not add value since it cuts off the quick link to the northern exit route. It turns the whole of lower Bengeo into one giant cul-de-sac with no amenities within the enclosed area. It inconveniences everyone who lives there. Hence a stupid idea. If we are looking for a solution, how about road users showing respect and consideration for each other.
Originally posted by James007quote:You forgot to add the fact that it will increase the value of your home [:)]
Originally posted by Stephen Wright
The is my first time on this sight and I can't believe what I am reading.It is time we took the bull by the horns!!!!!!!!! 1:The only solution to Bengeo rat run is to close Byde Sreet. 2:The roads in Lower Bengeo were designed for horse and cart and not modern traffic. 3:It must be murder living in the affected roads during rush hours. 4:The only reason people park in Lower Bengeo is because there are to few offical spaces, we should encourage more parking so people who obviously want to use the train can park with ease. 5:Since the turning restrictions into Cross Roads the traffic now pours past Bengeo Junior School at peak times and down The Avenue,this won't be stopped by traffic calming measures. 6:Children at the junior school are now put at risk when we are all trying to encourage walking to school. In conclusion we must close Byde Street asap and try to return to some traffic sanity rather than letting people cut through totally unsuitable roads in an effort to save a few minutes.
Reply ID 73190
quote:Hear hear. By the way, the residents did not come up with the closure idea - Highways imposed it, closure or nothing. They have never been open to anything else, since the no-right-turn failure. Personally I favour a one way solution on Beane Road going down to the station. Residents would be able to leave from either end. But return from the North only. It might ease traffic and counterflow snarl-ups. p
I think the adding value to the home argument is a non-argument. The reason residents want this is as a last resort to stop people driving through the roads. In my opinion a barrier would not add value since it cuts off the quick link to the northern exit route. It turns the whole of lower Bengeo into one giant cul-de-sac with no amenities within the enclosed area. It inconveniences everyone who lives there. Hence a stupid idea. If we are looking for a solution, how about road users showing respect and consideration for each other.
Reply ID 73193
quote:
Originally posted by buzzquote:You may be called Steven Wright, but you are most certainly Steven WRONG! Roads are made for people to travel along, not block by illegal parking. The only solution is to have double yellow lines (or indeed red lines) and enforce them. The streets are not meant as parking places, and technically, any vehicle parked on a road is causing an illegal obstruction, unless they have lawful authority or reasonable excuse. The vehicles parked on the "rat run" have neither.
Originally posted by Stephen Wright
The is my first time on this sight and I can't believe what I am reading.It is time we took the bull by the horns!!!!!!!!! 1:The only solution to Bengeo rat run is to close Byde Sreet. 2:The roads in Lower Bengeo were designed for horse and cart and not modern traffic. 3:It must be murder living in the affected roads during rush hours. 4:The only reason people park in Lower Bengeo is because there are to few offical spaces, we should encourage more parking so people who obviously want to use the train can park with ease. 5:Since the turning restrictions into Cross Roads the traffic now pours past Bengeo Junior School at peak times and down The Avenue,this won't be stopped by traffic calming measures. 6:Children at the junior school are now put at risk when we are all trying to encourage walking to school. In conclusion we must close Byde Street asap and try to return to some traffic sanity rather than letting people cut through totally unsuitable roads in an effort to save a few minutes.
Reply ID 73194
quote:
Originally posted by buzzquote:You may be called Steven Wright, but you are most certainly Steven WRONG! Roads are made for people to travel along, not block by illegal parking. The only solution is to have double yellow lines (or indeed red lines) and enforce them. The streets are not meant as parking places, and technically, any vehicle parked on a road is causing an illegal obstruction, unless they have lawful authority or reasonable excuse. The vehicles parked on the "rat run" have neither.
Originally posted by Stephen Wright
The is my first time on this sight and I can't believe what I am reading.It is time we took the bull by the horns!!!!!!!!! 1:The only solution to Bengeo rat run is to close Byde Sreet. 2:The roads in Lower Bengeo were designed for horse and cart and not modern traffic. 3:It must be murder living in the affected roads during rush hours. 4:The only reason people park in Lower Bengeo is because there are to few offical spaces, we should encourage more parking so people who obviously want to use the train can park with ease. 5:Since the turning restrictions into Cross Roads the traffic now pours past Bengeo Junior School at peak times and down The Avenue,this won't be stopped by traffic calming measures. 6:Children at the junior school are now put at risk when we are all trying to encourage walking to school. In conclusion we must close Byde Street asap and try to return to some traffic sanity rather than letting people cut through totally unsuitable roads in an effort to save a few minutes.
Reply ID 73195
quote:
Originally posted by buzzquote:You may be called Steven Wright, but you are most certainly Steven WRONG! Roads are made for people to travel along, not block by illegal parking. The only solution is to have double yellow lines (or indeed red lines) and enforce them. The streets are not meant as parking places, and technically, any vehicle parked on a road is causing an illegal obstruction, unless they have lawful authority or reasonable excuse. The vehicles parked on the "rat run" have neither.
Originally posted by Stephen Wright
The is my first time on this sight and I can't believe what I am reading.It is time we took the bull by the horns!!!!!!!!! 1:The only solution to Bengeo rat run is to close Byde Sreet. 2:The roads in Lower Bengeo were designed for horse and cart and not modern traffic. 3:It must be murder living in the affected roads during rush hours. 4:The only reason people park in Lower Bengeo is because there are to few offical spaces, we should encourage more parking so people who obviously want to use the train can park with ease. 5:Since the turning restrictions into Cross Roads the traffic now pours past Bengeo Junior School at peak times and down The Avenue,this won't be stopped by traffic calming measures. 6:Children at the junior school are now put at risk when we are all trying to encourage walking to school. In conclusion we must close Byde Street asap and try to return to some traffic sanity rather than letting people cut through totally unsuitable roads in an effort to save a few minutes.
Reply ID 73196
quote:Oh Dear Buzz seems to have had a seizure. P
Originally posted by Paulquote:Hear hear. By the way, the residents did not come up with the closure idea - Highways imposed it, closure or nothing. They have never been open to anything else, since the no-right-turn failure. Personally I favour a one way solution on Beane Road going down to the station. Residents would be able to leave from either end. But return from the North only. It might ease traffic and counterflow snarl-ups. p
I think the adding value to the home argument is a non-argument. The reason residents want this is as a last resort to stop people driving through the roads. In my opinion a barrier would not add value since it cuts off the quick link to the northern exit route. It turns the whole of lower Bengeo into one giant cul-de-sac with no amenities within the enclosed area. It inconveniences everyone who lives there. Hence a stupid idea. If we are looking for a solution, how about road users showing respect and consideration for each other.
Reply ID 73198
The essence here seems to be that a very small number of people want to close a set of public roads, something which most who live facing a road (virtually all of us) would consider a laughable suggestion, however much it might benefit their own property. This small group are very focussed and vocal. The rest of the population, whether against or apathetic, are less active, hence the OP. The question is, should we allow militant minorities to inconvenience the majority, or are we all to be forced into a society where everyone has to shout really loudly to defend their own status quo against self-interested lobbyists? Neither is an attractive design for life. Sadly the few spoil it for the many by demanding the unreasonable.
Reply ID 73199
quote:Unless of course you live in a cul-de-sac [8D]
Originally posted by shunt
... something which most who live facing a road (virtually all of us) would consider a laughable ...
Reply ID 73206
quote:Indeed, they can be chosen at Foxholes and many modern estates around Hertford [:)]. Alternatively, buy a house on a road and then just campaign to get it closed.[:o)] Maybe we could have electric gates installed across the A414 so that the residents there can choose who gets to use that road too. Just all think of all the cars we could park! We wouldn't need pavements anymore, so we could park on those too. Hurrah! [:D]
Originally posted by Stevequote:Unless of course you live in a cul-de-sac [8D]
Originally posted by shunt
... something which most who live facing a road (virtually all of us) would consider a laughable ...
Reply ID 73214
There are further proposals for Bengeo which aren't included in the leaflet. These include a new pedestrian crossing at the junction of Bengeo Street/New Road junction.(ref PED 26)and the provision of Parking bays on Bengeo Street and upper and lower Bengeo (ref CPK 3) The documment in full can be viewed at http://www.hertsdirect.org/envroads/roadstrans/transplan/tcatp08/tcatp/HandWUTP/ It is also worth noting that the published phone number is wrong and should be 0300 1234 047 I must warn you that it is a lengthy work and may take you the rest of the weekend to read!
Reply ID 73226
quote:Total non-essence. The essence here is acknowledging that residential streets are far more than mere conduits for the easy flow of motor vehicles, and recognise that sometimes the needs of local residents and vulnerable pedestrians have be taken into account.
Originally posted by shunt
The essence here seems to be that a very small number of people want to close a set of public roads, something which most who live facing a road (virtually all of us) would consider a laughable suggestion, however much it might benefit their own property. This small group are very focussed and vocal. The rest of the population, whether against or apathetic, are less active, hence the OP. The question is, should we allow militant minorities to inconvenience the majority, or are we all to be forced into a society where everyone has to shout really loudly to defend their own status quo against self-interested lobbyists? Neither is an attractive design for life. Sadly the few spoil it for the many by demanding the unreasonable.
Reply ID 73229
quote:Indeed they are both and Lower Bengeo has different functions for many people. Having lived and/or worked in the zone for the best part of 30 years, I've found it a busy and friendly community, disturbed the odd newcomer who resurrects this old chestnut and throws it into conflict and bad feeling, within and with it's neighbours. The danger to pedestrians in Lower Bengeo is indescriminate parking by residents and always was. It was the problem which began to emerge 30 years ago as multiple car ownership became available to the less affluent and it remains the only problem now. It was always a busy road system and remains so. If if you don't like it, you should have bought in a wide cul-de-sac where you can park all over the place and still leave access, but I expect you didn't like the modern house styles or out of town locations. Bengeo is an old fashioned, busy location with roads that go somewhere. It's a shame that it's community spirit is marred by conflict and animosity. Now, as it happens, a barrier in Byde Street would benefit me greatly, but it is not my right to demand it at the expense and inconvenience of my fellows, when the true problem remains unaddressed.
Originally posted by dennismoorequote:Total non-essence. The essence here is acknowledging that residential streets are far more than mere conduits for the easy flow of motor vehicles, and recognise that sometimes the needs of local residents and vulnerable pedestrians have be taken into account.
Originally posted by shunt
The essence here seems to be that a very small number of people want to close a set of public roads, something which most who live facing a road (virtually all of us) would consider a laughable suggestion, however much it might benefit their own property. This small group are very focussed and vocal. The rest of the population, whether against or apathetic, are less active, hence the OP. The question is, should we allow militant minorities to inconvenience the majority, or are we all to be forced into a society where everyone has to shout really loudly to defend their own status quo against self-interested lobbyists? Neither is an attractive design for life. Sadly the few spoil it for the many by demanding the unreasonable.
Reply ID 73231
quote:So let's place barriers across all residential streets including Bengeo Street, Hertingfordbury Road, Horns Mill Road, London Road, North Road, Ware Road and Welwyn Road, which are much busier and, therefore, more dangerous for vulnerable pedestrians. Let the blockade begin.
Originally posted by dennismoorequote:Total non-essence. The essence here is acknowledging that residential streets are far more than mere conduits for the easy flow of motor vehicles, and recognise that sometimes the needs of local residents and vulnerable pedestrians have be taken into account.
Originally posted by shunt
The essence here seems to be that a very small number of people want to close a set of public roads, something which most who live facing a road (virtually all of us) would consider a laughable suggestion, however much it might benefit their own property. This small group are very focussed and vocal. The rest of the population, whether against or apathetic, are less active, hence the OP. The question is, should we allow militant minorities to inconvenience the majority, or are we all to be forced into a society where everyone has to shout really loudly to defend their own status quo against self-interested lobbyists? Neither is an attractive design for life. Sadly the few spoil it for the many by demanding the unreasonable.
Reply ID 73232
quote:Total b*ll*cks, Look up the definition of "road" or "highway"
Originally posted by dennismoorequote:Total non-essence. The essence here is acknowledging that residential streets are far more than mere conduits for the easy flow of motor vehicles, and recognise that sometimes the needs of local residents and vulnerable pedestrians have be taken into account.
Originally posted by shunt
The essence here seems to be that a very small number of people want to close a set of public roads, something which most who live facing a road (virtually all of us) would consider a laughable suggestion, however much it might benefit their own property. This small group are very focussed and vocal. The rest of the population, whether against or apathetic, are less active, hence the OP. The question is, should we allow militant minorities to inconvenience the majority, or are we all to be forced into a society where everyone has to shout really loudly to defend their own status quo against self-interested lobbyists? Neither is an attractive design for life. Sadly the few spoil it for the many by demanding the unreasonable.
Reply ID 73233
Big yawn.... And don't assume I live in Lower Bengeo. I don't.
Reply ID 73234
quote:The use of "you" was generic, not specific. The point remains that Bengeo is a fine place to live for many reasons, but if living in a cul-de-sac is of prime importance, it would be an error to choose Bengeo with the expectation of retrospectively closing the road to suit that personal taste.
Originally posted by dennismoore
Big yawn.... And don't assume I live in Lower Bengeo. I don't.
Reply ID 73888
Just a reminder (no replies necessary please!) that the deadline for responding to the UTP questionnaire on whether or not to temporarily close Byde Street is on Friday. Anyone for OR against should do so and do make use of the "comments" section at the end if you favour other solutions... https://www.hertsdirect.org/websurveys/cgi-bin/qwebcorporate.cgi?XFY9TP
Reply ID 75683
Update; [url]http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/Byde-Street-closure-put-on-backburner.htm[/url]