Topic ID 4646
Wonderful to see the traditional quadrupling of traffic on Port Hill again this morning (09/09/09) I'm sure this has been mentioned here before...but if a certain school at the top of the hill staggered its opening hours, wouldn't that cure a few ills? And what about a few yellow lines down the appropriately named Cross Road at the same time?
Reply ID 66735
Why should a school that has been open since 1939 stagger its opening hours? Perhaps the contractors that have been digging the Road up for the last couple of months should get their fingers out. (And no my children do not go to that School)
Reply ID 66737
Perhaps the debate should not be so much staggering opening hours for schools but the age old one (on this forum since well before 1939 I'd suggest) regarding the school run.......[:(!]
Reply ID 66739
quote:Yes, apologies, I shouldn't single out one school. But, you must admit that the contrast in traffic between yesterday and today leads one to the inevitable conclusion that a disproportionate of traffic is generated (for obvious reasons, and previously discussed) here. Yes, the roadworks in Cowbridge have been badly scheduled and maybe need some (biased, if that's possible) temporary traffic lights, rather than the Russian Roulette system currently in place.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Why should a school that has been open since 1939 stagger its opening hours? Perhaps the contractors that have been digging the Road up for the last couple of months should get their fingers out. (And no my children do not go to that School)
Reply ID 66740
quote:It is probably difficult to place temporary traffic lights so close to the Old Cross traffic lights.
Originally posted by Artyquote:Yes, apologies, I shouldn't single out one school. But, you must admit that the contrast in traffic between yesterday and today leads one to the inevitable conclusion that a disproportionate of traffic is gen erated (for obvious reasons, and previously discussed) here. Yes, the roadworks in Cowbridge have been badly scheduled and maybe need some (biased, if that's possible) temporary traffic lights, rather than the Russian Roulette system currently in place.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Why should a school that has been open since 1939 stagger its opening hours? Perhaps the contractors that have been digging the Road up for the last couple of months should get their fingers out. (And no my children do not go to that School)
Reply ID 66742
Turn off the lights at Old Cross and watch the traffic flow [:D]
Reply ID 66743
May I suggest a tunnel?
Reply ID 66748
Been said many times before but school children should be made to walk or be provided with suitable busses. My wife is a teacher and you should hear some of the stories she has about aggressive parents dropping kids off in cars. Most of them live an easy walk from the school as well.
Reply ID 66750
Its not just the schools its been bad since the NO Right Turn into Cross Road at the top of Port Hill and of course those roadworks at the bottom for the sewer pipe problems just over the bridge by walton motors... I think too many kids can walk and don't and if the roads are "dangerous" its because of the mothers driving their kids to schools making them so!! I got cut up by one this morning on her mobile doing a hell of a speed..
Reply ID 66751
quote:My son goes to Millmead School, which is at the bottom of Port Hill, I drop him off there on the way to work at 8.00am. Now, I live at the top of the hill, so should I walk him to school then walk back for my car to drive to work? Or should I make him walk on his own? He is 4 years old.
Originally posted by throwback
Been said many times before but school children should be made to walk or be provided with suitable busses. My wife is a teacher and you should hear some of the stories she has about aggressive parents dropping kids off in cars. Most of them live an easy walk from the school as well.
Reply ID 66753
Victor Of course not, in your case and in many others that is perfectly sensible but there are so many people out the who use the car unnecessarily and drive and park with no consideration for others.
Reply ID 66754
No, you're going through to somewhere else and dropping him off at the bottom of the hill, but please Mr Meldrew I have a lady two doors from me, who lives 2 mins walk from Bengeo County Primary and gets her car out!!!! We live on the same road as the school!!!!!!!! That's what most sensible people object to... You have to go onto another place but its the ones who have no other place to go to and just use their car because they're too lazy to walk 5 mins to the school and 5 mins back home.. grrrrrr
Reply ID 66757
When I was 4, I used to walk a mile with my 6yr old brother to the end of the farm track, and the school bus would meet us to take us on the 'proper' roads to school. But that was in '78, in sleepy rural Wales. I think the point was made about kids of 11yrs plus where kids/schoolmates can group together on their way to school on foot. Bit like I did back in another bit of rural Wales where the track was 1/2 mile but the 'proper' roads to school were nearly 2 miles long and pavement-free.
Reply ID 66758
I believe Mill Mead school has a walking bus organised from Bengeo. I may be wrong but I think it starts up by the shops in the Avenue.
Reply ID 66760
quote:Certainly the have one from Duncombe Road. I am not defending them but most of the parents from Duncombe School come from miles away much too far to walk, whereas some who use cars as DQ says to go to Bengeo Primary could well walk.
Originally posted by Ewoowar
I believe Mill Mead school has a walking bus organised from Bengeo. I may be wrong but I think it starts up by the shops in the Avenue.
Reply ID 66763
I am a mum who lives in Bengeo who has one child at Sele and one at Bengeo. Both my kids walk. I understand what DQ says about Bengeo mums using cars when there is no need. Unfortunately there are a fair few of them. I also used to live near a women who lived about 2 mins walk form the school and always used the car. I can't understand it, on the odd occasion that I have to use the car to pick up from Bengeo I have to leave earlier than if I walk, too much hassle!! A while back Bengeo did get walking buses up and running but they fell by the wayside due to lack of interest/co-operation between the mums I think.
Reply ID 66765
I believe Mill Mead keep a register of the way each child travels to school daily (walk, car and walk, scooter, cycle, etc). I think there is an award to the class with the most journeys that do not involve the car. I used to drive to the school when dropping my son off and then go straight on to work. Now I walk him there every time and walk back home to collect my car to go to work. It means I get to work about 10 minutes later but I make up the time easily enough and I also get a little extra excercise every morning. I also think it is healthier for my son and a better way to start the day.
Reply ID 66770
I would love to be able to walk my son to school. He was not offered a place at his nearest school where he had been at nursery, or a place at ANY school in Hertford. He has ended up going to a village school five miles away. Lots of children missed out on places this year and many of my friends have ended up having to drive 4-5 miles to village schools that had places left. It is a total pain and was in none of our plans, we all walked them to school before. Interestingly 3 of us were offered a school in Ware but the school was not liked by any of us. If we had taken the councils choice then they provide a school bus place. If however you don't take up the place at the dismal school they offer you, you have to get your child to school by your own means. We all ended up getting places at different village schools so we can't even car share. So remember that a fair few children from each school will maybe live too far away to walk.
Reply ID 66772
frazer that is so wrong, why does this country get something so important so wrong
Reply ID 66773
I do wonder if the council are aware of the number of people moving their young families to Hertford from North London.
Reply ID 66775
We were upset at first mainly because he would leave his friends. Then the driving issue sunk in, then the extra cost of petrol per week, and we could only see the downsides. We ended up getting a place at the village school that we loved and there are some positives such as smaller class sizes and a family feel to the school, so it all worked out in the end. It hasn't been so easy for friends that have two children though. They have to get both children ready, in the car, sit in traffic, both out of the car, babyseats, prams etc etc..... I do have to admit though that we are one of the couples that moved to Hertford from North London, and we did discuss the school issue when we moved here. We are just really glad that there are a large number of excellent schools in and around Hertford so we had another option.
Reply ID 66787
quote:...and watch the school children try and cross there without getting run over. Result: More kids being driven to school. The solution to the problems at Cross Road is to only allow cars up to 1400cc to park there in the mornings and afternoons! [:D] Frazer, what a terrible indicment that an average sized town like ours can't even give school places to so many of its children. There seem to have been hundreds of new homes built in Hertford over the last 15 or so years, but so far as I know, little increase in school capacity. Glad to hear it worked out alright in the end.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
Turn off the lights at Old Cross and watch the traffic flow [:D]
Reply ID 66788
quote:We're off topic here but I agree. And to make things worse, what will happen when this wave of younger children hit secondary school age?
Originally posted by dennismoorequote:...and watch the school children try and cross there without getting run over. Result: More kids being driven to school. The solution to the problems at Cross Road is to only allow cars up to 1400cc to park there in the mornings and afternoons! [:D] Frazer, what a terrible indicment that an average sized town like ours can't even give school places to so many of its children. There seem to have been hundreds of new homes built in Hertford over the last 15 or so years, but so far as I know, little increase in school capacity. Glad to hear it worked out alright in the end.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
Turn off the lights at Old Cross and watch the traffic flow [:D]
Reply ID 66794
why does having a small engine give people more of a right to park near the school?
Reply ID 66797
I think it's dennismoore's tongue in cheek implication that all Duncombe parents drive large vehicles with big engines of the 4x4 variety (yawn). My wife and I drop the kids off at Duncombe at 7.30 like many others, there's no traffic then, perhaps more people should learn to get up a bit earlier if they want congestion-free travel rather than blaming the school.
quote:
Originally posted by thefair1973
why does having a small engine give people more of a right to park near the school?
Reply ID 66798
quote:If everybody got up earlier and dumped their kids at school at 7:30am then the traffic problems would be at 7:30am
Originally posted by Loving Whale
My wife and I drop the kids off at Duncombe at 7.30 like many others, there's no traffic then, perhaps more people should learn to get up a bit earlier if they want congestion-free travel rather than blaming the school.
Reply ID 66801
No I don't agree, if more people left to go work earlier rather than leaving it to the last minute and rushing in, the roads would be quieter and safer as we'd be spreading the load. My observation is that there's plenty of capacity on Hertford's roads outside of the 8-9am/5-6.30pm rush and that trying to devise traffic solutions to fix the problems with rush hour has proved to be pretty futile. The ultimate sanction is C-Charging during peak hours that's the only way that we'll change behaviour.
quote:
Originally posted by jez_pquote:If everybody got up earlier and dumped their kids at school at 7:30am then the traffic problems would be at 7:30am
Originally posted by Loving Whale
My wife and I drop the kids off at Duncombe at 7.30 like many others, there's no traffic then, perhaps more people should learn to get up a bit earlier if they want congestion-free travel rather than blaming the school.
Reply ID 66802
quote:I may be being stupid here but isn't 5-6.30pm long after the schools come out? Can school runs's be blamed for that one? Surely the only people picking up children at that time are those who work and probably drive anyway? Again this is probably a stupid idea, with many reasons why it wouldn't work but it has just occured to me that perhaps some sort of permit parking schemes around schools might discourage the unnecessary school run drives. Perhaps permits could be issued to those who need to drive, like those who live further than walking distance, for instance. Just a thought.
Originally posted by Loving Whale
My observation is that there's plenty of capacity on Hertford's roads outside of the 8-9am/5-6.30pm rush
Reply ID 66803
I doubt that would work, because parents will just stop in the road or just pul over to let their kids out of the car. I doubt that many of them actually 'park up' anyway.
Reply ID 66804
quote:Yeah you are probably right, the number of time Bengeo school has to remind parents about parking, some never seem to listen.
Originally posted by thefair1973
I doubt that would work, because parents will just stop in the road or just pul over to let their kids out of the car. I doubt that many of them actually 'park up' anyway.
Reply ID 66809
GemiP, the problem with your idea is that it's too vague. I would love my kids to walk or cycle to school but until there is a safe way across the A414 at the bottom of thieves lane there is no way I would consider it. I'm a bit surprised no-one has been mown down at that point already.
Reply ID 66827
Yes, although our roads are largely quite safe to cross at the moment, we could do with a few more secure crossing places if we want more children to walk or cycle to school safely. Another I'd suggest would be on Port Hill by the road that leads into Hartham. To often, as evidenced by previous threads, much emphasis is placed on the sanctity of free flowing traffic unhindered by obstacles such as lights, crossings and even barriers. And yet we then get annoyed when the roads are clogged up because parents don't feel it's safe enough for their kids to walk.
Reply ID 66831
quote:I agree. A crossing at the bottom of Port Hill would be very useful.
Originally posted by dennismoore
Yes, although our roads are largely quite safe to cross at the moment, we could do with a few more secure crossing places if we want more children to walk or cycle to school safely. Another I'd suggest would be on Port Hill by the road that leads into Hartham. To often, as evidenced by previous threads, much emphasis is placed on the sanctity of free flowing traffic unhindered by obstacles such as lights, crossings and even barriers. And yet we then get annoyed when the roads are clogged up because parents don't feel it's safe enough for their kids to walk.
Reply ID 66834
quote:I seem to remember that that was included in the nine page list of "goodies" that the council required to done if Sainsbury's got the goahead to start building.
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:I agree. A crossing at the bottom of Port Hill would be very useful.
Originally posted by dennismoore
Yes, although our roads are largely quite safe to cross at the moment, we could do with a few more secure crossing places if we want more children to walk or cycle to school safely. Another I'd suggest would be on Port Hill by the road that leads into Hartham. To often, as evidenced by previous threads, much emphasis is placed on the sanctity of free flowing traffic unhindered by obstacles such as lights, crossings and even barriers. And yet we then get annoyed when the roads are clogged up because parents don't feel it's safe enough for their kids to walk.
Reply ID 66840
Crossing Fore St by M&S to go into / out of the underpass to Abel Smith is also difficult. Especially on the way home from school as some cars exit the roundabout quickly and you can't see them until quite late. Without the island in the middle it would be impossible but even with the island its too difficult for young children.
Reply ID 66861
This video might show one reason why parents don't let their children walk to school. http://www.bengeo.demon.co.uk/bra/pages/ratrun.htm p
quote:
Originally posted by Ewoowar
I believe Mill Mead school has a walking bus organised from Bengeo. I may be wrong but I think it starts up by the shops in the Avenue.
Reply ID 66862
quote:Watched it twice, but didn't spot the problem. What are we looking for?
Originally posted by Paul
This video might show one reason why parents don't let their children walk to school. http://www.bengeo.demon.co.uk/bra/pages/ratrun.htm
Reply ID 66863
I saw considerate drivers, well within the speed limit, driving on authorised roads. I also saw children walking to school on the pavements. However I noted that both these groups were being put at risk by the illegal parking of cars which have blocked both the pavements and roads by parking over the pavements and on both sides of the road where there is no room to park. I also saw cars parked right up to the crossroads and T junctions effectively blocking cars from turning the corners. ( I also note that the majority of the video was centred around a group of workmen and a large skip in the road ! Both obviously temporary and no doubt licensed ! Rather biased I felt. ) The roads are not the issue, surely it's the parked cars that are the issue. I fail to understand why these illegally parked cars are not removed and their owners fined.
Reply ID 66866
quote:There have been plenty of discussions on the "rat-run". Please let's not use this thread as an excuse to repeat yet again the many things that have been said on the issue.
Originally posted by shuntquote:Watched it twice, but didn't spot the problem. What are we looking for?
Originally posted by Paul
This video might show one reason why parents don't let their children walk to school. http://www.bengeo.demon.co.uk/bra/pages/ratrun.htm
Reply ID 66868
quote:Perhaps you might address that to the source, if indeed the video was posted with that aim. I was genuinely asking at what point in the video was the event to which Paul intended to draw attention.
Originally posted by Stevequote:There have been plenty of discussions on the "rat-run". Please let's not use this thread as an excuse to repeat yet again the many things that have been said on the issue.
Originally posted by shuntquote:Watched it twice, but didn't spot the problem. What are we looking for?
Originally posted by Paul
This video might show one reason why parents don't let their children walk to school. http://www.bengeo.demon.co.uk/bra/pages/ratrun.htm
Reply ID 66870
I would say that 2:17 to 2:53 is pretty outrageous. If I had been there I would have stood my ground on the footpath.
Reply ID 66872
quote:Agreed. Though I doubt they'd have done it if you had been.
Originally posted by JohnSmith
I would say that 2:17 to 2:53 is pretty outrageous. If I had been there I would have stood my ground on the footpath.
Reply ID 66873
Back to subject. I've noted a considerable drop off in road safety training and publicity between my childhood, that of my children, and now. Remember Tufty Club and Green Cross man? Certainly walking and crossing safety was an early and strictly indoctrined feature of early childhood with my parents. Every journey with mum was a lesson and every schoolday had a reminder before class was dismissed.
Reply ID 66877
Paul's film illustrates one of the hazards that children often encounter, and it's one which urgently needs to be addressed if we want to encourage more of them to walk to school. I'm familiar with that stretch of road and this is quite normal behaviour there. Dozens of children walk that way to school. There's no need to drive along that stretch of pavement even when cars are parked on the opposite side of the road, it's just impatience and a lack of consideration that leads some to do so. Ironically it was a lot safer when cars were allowed to park on that side as well, ensuring that traffic kept to the road.
Reply ID 66881
quote:Indeed, but the problem to address in this case is poor driving standards, on which road layouts or restritions have been found to have little effect. It's interesting that one of the cars using the pavement is a police vehicle. As you point out, the road there doesn't require the use of the pavement. Perhaps we should issue tape measures to drivers, so that they can measure the width of their own vehicle.[:D] Following on from my observations on reduced road safety training for children, the same could be said of drivers. There's too much concentration on surviving accidents and too little on avoiding them in the first place. It's interesting to note that for many of the safety features which save the lives of drivers, there is a corresponding rise in incidents involving non car users.
Originally posted by dennismoore
Paul's film illustrates one of the hazards that children often encounter, and it's one which urgently needs to be addressed if we want to encourage more of them to walk to school. I'm familiar with that stretch of road and this is quite normal behaviour there. Dozens of children walk that way to school. There's no need to drive along that stretch of pavement even when cars are parked on the opposite side of the road, it's just impatience and a lack of consideration that leads some to do so. Ironically it was a lot safer when cars were allowed to park on that side as well, ensuring that traffic kept to the road.