Topic ID 462
Just been released from purgatory at Tescos and noticed yellow sign on Birthdays/Thorntons for application to turn A1 to A1/3 for Costa Coffee or something similar. Not enough places to get a coffee in town? Know no more but there is a sort of plan laid down by Council about types of eateries that can open where - hence the application from Ashleys that was turned down and Okayed Subway because they do not prepare on premises which makes them a prime A1. What sort of place is this then. Try the coffee and buy the beans sort of place?
Reply ID 3893
I saw the leasehold advertised in town during the weekend. I wondered what was happening.
Reply ID 3895
quote:Not a descent one, no.
Originally posted by sloopjohnb Not enough places to get a coffee in town?
Reply ID 3896
Costa is in the same stable as Starbucks, Caffe Nero and Coffee Republic. They sell Espresso based coffees eg, Cappucino, Latte etc. They also have a range of cakes and sanwiches. I have noticed that these types of shops tend to serve better coffee it they are busy. Costa don't have a very large merchandise range (compared to starbucks) but you can buy the coffee beans if you so desire. As long as they don't put Serendipity out of business they could be a welcome addition to the town.
Reply ID 3899
We have a Costa Coffee franchise in our office....quality coffee it is not. Yet another nail in the town centres coffin.
Reply ID 3912
Yes Carlos, as I think I mentioned some time ago in regard to Subway slowly Hertford is becoming like any other town. Not so heavily reliant on the big chain stores in the shopping centres but its individuality is declining; which was and in some people's eyes still is, its USP. Might be considered olde worlde now but I used to enjoy tea and cakes in Christines.
Reply ID 3915
Christines? I remember Edinburghs.....
Reply ID 3916
In my blacker moments I can see Hertford going the same way as Hoddesdon. It's a little like global warming...we can all see the danger signs but can't be bothered to do anything about it.
Reply ID 3917
Might be considered olde worlde now but I used to enjoy tea and cakes in Christines. Sloopjohnb..... Christines was definately old world, I don't think it had been decorated since world war II, but no-one could say it was a very welcoming or good place to go.... be fair, it was rather grim.[:(]
Reply ID 3921
was that where cafe rouge is now?
Reply ID 3922
I think I am right in saying that Christines used to be where Shahenshah is now. Edinburghs occupied the Red Caff. Yes, Wizkid I think memory plays tricks - you are most probably right.
Reply ID 3948
Yes you are right, the Shahenshah is where Christine's was. I remeber being amazed by how wonderful the Shahenshah looked in comparison to Christine's
Reply ID 4139
I forgot about Christines! I was only a kid then. Hertford without the chains. How wonderful!
Reply ID 4146
I think that part of the reason that the "old Hertford" is disappearing should not be blamed on the large chains, but more on the shoppers. I think this point has been made in the Tescos thread already, but if the "Old Hertford" was so good, then why didn't more people shop there? If they did then more of it would have survived.
Reply ID 4148
I think we're also a bit choosy when it comes to complaining about 'chains' in Hertford. I don't recall much complaint about Monsoon arriving. And let's not forget that Thorntons is a chain as well. Perhaps with Thorntons going our own local chocolatiere, just 40 yards from Thorntons, will see more trade.
Reply ID 4167
Jez I think Hertford has survived. Admittedly the butchers and greengrocers have closed down, but look at the popularity of the fishmongers, there is normally a long queue there on Saturdays. The thing is about shopping in Hertford, is it is a pleasant, sociable occasion. I love to go the market, the fish shop and Waitroses and have some lunch at the Hertford Club. So much more enjoyable than going to the supermarket..... you must admit, Hertford town centre is busy on Saturdays.
Reply ID 4170
Chains??! There's a shop offering bondage in Hertford? I have my doubts about Hertford surviving as a group of independents. Another shop closed in Bircherley Green and the only people to come forward to occupy premises such as Your Move., Mercury, Job Centre etc etc are licensees.
Reply ID 4175
Look at the shops in St. Andrews Street Sloopjohn, not a chain in sight and all very successful, especially Wiggintons.[:)]
Reply ID 4179
It must be so much harder for an independent to make money. I believe the annual rent on the premises for the recently opened gift shop near MacDonalds is £26,000. How do you make much money with that rent to pay?
Reply ID 4187
Not just rent. There's rates, staff, heating, lighting etc etc. You have to take about £1000 a week to break even. Some other outlets around town are paying much bigger rents than £26000 for smaller space. And there's quite a few who would give up now if they could find someone to take over the lease. Wizkid, I stand corrected. How could I forget my mates in St Andrew Street. I think they took the right decision and called themselves the 'Quality Street' and market themselves accordingly. An excellent website as well.
Reply ID 4191
I agree Sloopjohn[:)]
Reply ID 4192
Any news on what is happening at the 'Just Fabrics' premises?
Reply ID 4247
I think that having the "Chains" in Hertford is keeping the town centre alive. Take away Woolies, New Look, McDonalds, Waitrose, Boots, WHSmiths, Monsoon etc and I suspect that the number of people shopping in Hertford Town Centre will drop drasticly - this would be bad news for some of the smaller shops.
Reply ID 4248
Don't get me wrong, I think the chains keep it going too. I'm simply saying it was nicer when there were less, and most units were full. A long time ago now. It will be interesting how Costa will go. The council said no more coffee shops or pubs. But I bet a chain gets in.
Reply ID 4252
Oh please, could someone take away McDonalds..... I don't know why they stay anyway, they seem to get very little custom[:(]
Reply ID 4358
What local chocolatiere? Do you mean Leonida's? Hmm, I was under the impression that was a chain of sorts as well as I was given some the last time I went to the states. If it is local, I would definitely give it another try. Or are my pregnancy hormones failing me and there is more chocolate in the area that I haven't found???? Must. Know.
Reply ID 4359
LOL, Elizabeth. You go, girl – after all, you’re eating for two! Leonidas is indeed an international chain of franchises, the one in Bircherley Green being staffed by that very nice lady who lives I think somewhere along the Ware Road. If it’s locally-made chocolate you’re after, the Swiss chocolatier Lessiters has a factory on London Road between Woolmer Green and Knebworth. Their factory shop is well worth a visit, especially at this time of year when they have some pretty spectacular Easter confections available. And there’s also the WI markets, Friday mornings 9.30, they occasionally have home-made chocs but you have to get there early. Hertford’s is in Castle Hall or the far superior Ware one is in Dolphin Yard off East Street. As this is a Coffee House thread, I’ll bring this post back on topic by saying the WI markets serve tea and coffee which is not particularly high quality but is worth having in Ware for the proper old-lady cup and saucer it is served in, that institution-green 1950s-looking range of crockery that has been refreshing the nation’s fetes, jumble sales and coffee mornings for three generations.
Reply ID 4361
Oops......there's me making assumptions about Leonidas. I have to agree about Lessiters though.
Reply ID 4364
Elizabeth, i was told that if you eat chocolate in the pregnancy it produces happier babies! I no longer have that excuse any more to eat vast amounts of chocolate!
Reply ID 4417
Coffee chains are fine.. if they're not Costa ones! Pret A Manger do better coffee than Starbucks and in London I get to try them all out and on price they are cheaper too! The problem is so many of us work outside of hertford that we don't frequent our shops/restaurants to make lovely family run tea rooms work! Add McMullens screwing them for rent and you've got a problem. I would like to see a tea/coffee and cake shop (just to feel a reason to go to the gym afterwards!) anything but another flipping Indian restaurant, but really we need all sorts of shops in the town and childrens shoes are not catered for as a starter! How many children must there be in Hertford and Ware? I don't have children but why should I have to go to Stevenage, WGC or Harlow to try and get a toddlers shoes surely a county town should have these amenities and be able to remain solvent?? I don't like seeing the empty shops and understand all the legal processes, but it seems that its too easy to vacate the shops and years to flipping fill em with something new! Right off to the pub, but not in Hertford!
Reply ID 4419
There used to be a childrens shoe shop in Hertford. I believe it was where the perpetually fully booked barbers now is on Cowbridge. Unfortunately it closed before I had children. I don't want to appear fussy.....but I don't see these types of things as amenities. The people who run these shops have to make money. The Refectory was an interesting story.....the shop made lots of money but they closed it because they found they were making more money via the internet.
Reply ID 4422
What do/did they sell? Having once queued for ages in John lewis to buy kids shoes I thought it might be a good business to go into. My Wife persuaded me otherwise.
Reply ID 4423
quote:Errrrr......they sold shoes. Childrens shoes. Not sure why they closed. Actually........come to think of it there was another childrens shoe shop in Hertford. They were in the unit in between Charlottes florist and the Tourist Information Centre opposite Shire Hall. They sold more designer shoes. Not sure why they closed either. Perhaps there was insufficient footfall(!?!?!?!?!?!)[:D]
Originally posted by carlos fandango
What do/did they sell? Having once queued for ages in John lewis to buy kids shoes I thought it might be a good business to go into. My Wife persuaded me otherwise.
Reply ID 4490
Heard today that application from Costa Coffee has been refused. Subject to appeal of course. It stands on Council's 'A' list or prime retail areas and they will not allow another coffee shop type place set up.
Reply ID 4492
incredible decision, im not advocating an influx of similar bland outlets but I dont see how a pleasant place to get a coffee and a snack is going to be of detriment to the area. Perhaps they prefer we wander down the street and get a big mac, next door to a bookies and look at an 'interesting' holiday home shop. Times change, people prefer a Costa to a Greggs. Theres no difference. The planning decisions in this town, in my short experience, have been incomprehensible.
Reply ID 4493
I have a tendancy to agree with Matthew, whats so bad about a place sit and get a decent brew? I know for certain that when my wife is out in town with the new born, she would prefer to sit in a Costa on a nice spongie sofa than in MuckDonalds on fag burnt plastic chair.
Reply ID 4494
I like the cafe opposite Waitrose, although there's not much room, tucked next to the travel agents and Methvens bookshop. If you want people to shop and stay in the town you have to make it attractive by providing a) cheap accessible parking b) shops people want to buy things in c) somewhere to put their feet up and rest before dragging their purchases home.. I would prefer Costa to nothing, but would prefer a coffee house/tea shop not in a chain over that!
Reply ID 4495
quote:I would be surpised to see someone open up an independant place like that as I do not feel that somewhere that just sells tea/coffee and snacks would be financially viable in Hertford. The benifit that a large chain like Costa has is that their shops in busier areas such as London prop up the under performing ones. What is the big problem with chains?? surely they are putting employment into the area, take away all the chains in the area, how many people would be unemployed?
Originally posted by Drama Queen
I like the cafe opposite Waitrose, although there's not much room, tucked next to the travel agents and Methvens bookshop. If you want people to shop and stay in the town you have to make it attractive by providing a) cheap accessible parking b) shops people want to buy things in c) somewhere to put their feet up and rest before dragging their purchases home.. I would prefer Costa to nothing, but would prefer a coffee house/tea shop not in a chain over that!
Reply ID 4499
and remember we are talking about replacing a card shop! with a tacky front and bargain card buckets by the door, we arent preserving a national treasure. I dont mind the sentiment behind the decision but there seems to be no consistency in the planning at all.
Reply ID 4503
It used to be Fosters the clothes chain, so from where I stand its a massive improvment!
Reply ID 4505
Does Clintons count as a chain? The Clintons come from round here. my objection to costa coffee is that it is rubbish. maybe a childrens shoe shop that sells coffee and cakes whilst you are waiting is the way ahead.
Reply ID 4506
quote:Maybe. You could get through a three course meal waiting for service at the childrens shoe dept in John Lewis.
Originally posted by carlos fandango
Does Clintons count as a chain? The Clintons come from round here. my objection to costa coffee is that it is rubbish. maybe a childrens shoe shop that sells coffee and cakes whilst you are waiting is the way ahead.
Reply ID 4509
That's why they give you the bleeper...so you can go have lunch and come back. or don't they have them anymore?
Reply ID 4515
They do and getting kids shoes continues to be a painful experience.
Reply ID 4517
The last few times I have been there I gave up and went across the road to the Clarks shop in the Howard Centre.
Reply ID 4521
it was a Clarks that used to be in Hertford opposite Castle Hall - my mum bought my first pair of shoes there! haha! (now cast in some dodgy metal)
Reply ID 4523
quote:Cast in dodgy metal?
Originally posted by smileyoriley
it was a Clarks that used to be in Hertford opposite Castle Hall - my mum bought my first pair of shoes there! haha! (now cast in some dodgy metal)
Reply ID 4525
yes, bronzed or something similar
Reply ID 4527
How sweet. probably more money in casting shoes in metal than running a shoe shop.
Reply ID 4529
yes always a sentimental one my ma. There's bound to be heaps to be made in sentimental things like that (hand prints & the like) I think there used to be a good kids shoe shop in Hoddesdon
Reply ID 4531
quote:Is that a shoe shop for good kids?[:D]
Originally posted by smileyoriley
yes always a sentimental one my ma. There's bound to be heaps to be made in sentimental things like that (hand prints & the like) I think there used to be a good kids shoe shop in Hoddesdon
Reply ID 4534
rofl hehe yes most likely!!
Reply ID 4549
Going on to the original topic, Costa Coffee, we had a really badly delayed flight, and I was starving when we arrived at Stansted... the only shop open was Costa Coffee, I had a toasted cheese and tomato sandwich...... absolute poisin! how on earth can you ruin a toasted cheese and tomato sandwich? difficult, but they did.... if that is a sample of their wares, I certainly won't be using them when they arrive in Hertford.
Reply ID 4550
Please see all my earlier posts on the subject.
Reply ID 4551
I think that is a perfect example of Airport grub tho - I have had the same experience when we were there last with Costa
Reply ID 4553
In fairness, they dont call themselves "Costa Toasted Cheese and Tomato Sandwiches" do they.
Reply ID 4559
quote:The Hoddesdon shop closed down about a year ago. The landlord doubled the rent and they could not afford to keep going. The shopkeeper reckoned that they were trying to force everyone out so that they couild develop the site. There is a Children's shoe shop in Ware and a better one in Bishops Stortford.
Originally posted by smileyoriley
yes always a sentimental one my ma. There's bound to be heaps to be made in sentimental things like that (hand prints & the like) I think there used to be a good kids shoe shop in Hoddesdon
Reply ID 4563
quote:Victor I don't think that's fair at all. If they choose to sell it, a product should be of an acceptable quality to the consumer
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
In fairness, they dont call themselves "Costa Toasted Cheese and Tomato Sandwiches" do they.
Reply ID 4564
Victor I don't think that's fair at all. If they choose to sell it, a product should be of an acceptable quality to the consumer [/quote] Fair point, but it is also not fair to judge a product on one visit especially in an airport.
Reply ID 4569
I think it's more than fair. Why not aim to get your product right all the time?
Reply ID 4576
exactly my point, a sandwich should be more than edible. Wizkid is right, it's not exactly cordon bleu cooking, 2 pieces of bread, cheese & tomato in a sandwich toaster should not be difficult, even for a busy coffee shop! If a cafe can't get something basic right then I wouldn't waste my money there - especially at inflated Airport prices
Reply ID 4578
valid points, but I dont think the council turned down the application on the basis of the quality of their food. I wouldnt choose to buy chocolates from Thorntons for much the same reasons. There are other coffee outlets I would prefer to Costa but since none of them have made the application so be it. Either way I think the change of use would benefit that central area, particularly if the alternative is to stay as it is.
Reply ID 4584
quote:Inflated airports. Now that's a novel idea. I think I saw something about inflatable airports on Tomorrows World about 25 years ago.
Originally posted by smileyoriley
exactly my point, a sandwich should be more than edible. Wizkid is right, it's not exactly cordon bleu cooking, 2 pieces of bread, cheese & tomato in a sandwich toaster should not be difficult, even for a busy coffee shop! If a cafe can't get something basic right then I wouldn't waste my money there - especially at inflated Airport prices
Reply ID 4585
I think it is a great location in town. What about a deli there?
Reply ID 4593
Er, Serendipity anyone?
Reply ID 4595
Serendipity is not really a deli, is it. It's a nice enough cafe that sells a few odd bits. But not a deli.
Reply ID 4598
absolutely, its pleasant, and theyve definitely got the right idea, but its cramped, a bit slow and needs better air conditioning to ensure you dont smell of everyones lunch when you leave. Sitting outside is good, but not much of an option this time of year.
Reply ID 4615
We had a deli, in what was Green Dragon Yard, where Micks the barbers was/is, but nobody went there so they eventually put a greenhouse in the yard area, to make narrow tracks around it and put a cafe there. These shops only survive if we use them. Aunty Olives in Bengeo, The Avenue, where the shops are, are a deli, open till 8pm nightly and have lovely coffee beans. Its a small shop, but they are friendly and I think its great!
Reply ID 4617
Serendipity is a sweet little shop but not very practical if you have children. They don't have any loos which means leaving your table to take one child to the horrid bus station loos and leaving the other one there with food, bags etc. Not an experience I wish to repeat.
Reply ID 4618
quote:I believe Serendipity now have toilets.
Originally posted by CityBird
Serendipity is a sweet little shop but not very practical if you have children. They don't have any loos which means leaving your table to take one child to the horrid bus station loos and leaving the other one there with food, bags etc. Not an experience I wish to repeat.
Reply ID 4620
quote:How long ago was the deli in Green Dragon Yard? I have lived in Hertford for 11 years and don't recall it. Micks has been there for a very long time. I think a good deli would survive in town. The only competition would be Waitrose. And the location and size would be crucial. Get the location right and it's a winner. The Thorntons shop gets so much passing trade. It would be perfect.
Originally posted by Drama Queen
We had a deli, in what was Green Dragon Yard, where Micks the barbers was/is, but nobody went there so they eventually put a greenhouse in the yard area, to make narrow tracks around it and put a cafe there. These shops only survive if we use them. Aunty Olives in Bengeo, The Avenue, where the shops are, are a deli, open till 8pm nightly and have lovely coffee beans. Its a small shop, but they are friendly and I think its great!
Reply ID 4622
wasn't in the one that replaced the old Micks when it moved next door?
Reply ID 4623
oooh yes imagine all the lovely meats & cheeses they could have that you have to buy in bulk sometimes just to get anything really good
Reply ID 4624
quote:Hmmmm.............I need to see your face and hear your tone to gauge whether you are being sarcastic![;)]
Originally posted by smileyoriley
oooh yes imagine all the lovely meats & cheeses they could have that you have to buy in bulk sometimes just to get anything really good
Reply ID 4625
No I'm being serious!! [:(] I usually end up going to Costco to get good deli type food - my mouyh is watering just thinking about it [:D][:D]
Reply ID 4634
Serendipity has toilets? Next you'll be telling me that it serves people within an hour!
Reply ID 4639
Sorry to keep going on about Costa Coffe...... I think that dodgy cheese and tomato toastie has had a profound effect upon me... but is it true that Costa's application to trade in Hertford has been turned down? can anyone verify this? If so, that is very good news.
Reply ID 4651
I think I may have been a bit premature in this but the info did come from a usually pretty good source. Presume what they were talking about was the Town Council's reaction rather than full planning at District. Apologies all round.
Reply ID 4654
quote:Yes. The toilets are upstairs.
Originally posted by Dude
Serendipity has toilets? Next you'll be telling me that it serves people within an hour!
Reply ID 4732
Serendipity is a great little place and I go there frequently, but it's not open past 5pm and not at all on Sundays, and gets crowded quickly and easily. Now I've never been a Starbucks fan, but since I've been here I've craved having a Starbucks (or something like it) nearby if nothing else but for a place to go maybe after dinner or on a lazy Sunday, grab a cup of coffee and tasty treat. Never had Costa coffee, but I would welcome it as a place to go when nothing else is open (provided that would be the case and it wasn't billowing smoke out it's doors).
Reply ID 4734
Baroosh is open on a Sunday, has spongey sofas and does nice coffee. The only problem is the do not allow children in.
Reply ID 4735
I think the district council will make a decision next week. The application is still open for the public to have its say - for or against!
Reply ID 4736
unless you are a big fan of Thorntons and/or the card shop then I dont see why you would oppose it. If you arent a fan of the product then you just dont use it. They tend to be well presented stores and if it means people may linger around the town centre a bit longer whilst doing their shopping it cant do any harm.
Reply ID 4749
quote:Good point well made. Keep the shoppers lingering in town for longer and it can only help local trade.
Originally posted by MATTHEW
unless you are a big fan of Thorntons and/or the card shop then I dont see why you would oppose it. If you arent a fan of the product then you just dont use it. They tend to be well presented stores and if it means people may linger around the town centre a bit longer whilst doing their shopping it cant do any harm.
Reply ID 5070
quote:Serendipity has an upstairs!?! [:)]
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:Yes. The toilets are upstairs.
Originally posted by Dude
Serendipity has toilets? Next you'll be telling me that it serves people within an hour!
Reply ID 5071
I have been using the Glasshouse more recently. Half the price and double the speed of Serendipity.
Reply ID 5090
Only the toilets and staff rooms are upstairs.