Topic ID 4502
Have noted in the Mercury this week that The Duncombe Arms are seeking to increase the licensing hours on a Thursday-Saturday until 1am! Do we need yet another late night venue in Hertford - we already have 15 of them. Gone are the days of only being able to go to Zero's for a late drink [8D]
Reply ID 64403
15 in town open till 1am??
Reply ID 64404
Ho yes - you'd be surprised once you start looking into things. The Blackbirds has the option to open until 4am Thursday-Saturday!!! Most of the venues only use the late license hours for specific functions or events, but there are 15 of them that can open well past midnight if they choose to
Reply ID 64407
So whats the difference between 15 and 16 then? not a lot! if they think they can do it, and it's worthwhile, and the authorities see fit then i dont see any problem with it.
Reply ID 64414
Try living next door [}:)]
Reply ID 64415
The problem with the late night licences is that some in the town would argue the "nighttime economy" is important to the town for jobs, etc, etc.. but the cost to all of us on clearing up the mess on Friday, Saturday and Sunday mornings (you really do have to go through the town around Cafe Rouge to really see how disgusting it is) is phenomenal and outstripping the benefits. I love later licences, but please can people just learn how to drink and not roll out of clubs, fighting, throwing up or worse!
Reply ID 64416
yes, true, but if 15 already have it, 1 more isnt going to make any difference!
Reply ID 64419
The point is - why do we need one more - surely 15 is enough?! Are there really that many people that want to stay in Hertford drinking until 1am+ on a Thursday/Friday/Saturday night?
Reply ID 64420
yep, there is. ANd as for living next door - I'm sure the pub was tehre before you were...
Reply ID 64422
quote:Last orders used to be 10.50 though[:)]
Originally posted by thefair1973
yep, there is. ANd as for living next door - I'm sure the pub was tehre before you were...
Reply ID 64430
They are trying to grab the trade from the closed Marquee club They are looking to put lots of bands on. I think last saturday they had 4 on in one night.
Reply ID 64432
quote:Have you been in the Duncombe or is your typing just a bit crap?[:D]
Originally posted by thefair1973
yep, there is. ANd as for living next door - I'm sure the pub was tehre before you were...
Reply ID 64433
Popped in there for the first time a couple of Saturday's ago. Have to say I quite enjoyed it, seemed a predominantly young and friendly clientèle, quite a refreshing change from other Hertford pubs imo. Wouldn't go there for the beer mind.
Reply ID 64438
quote:eeeeerrrrr - I think the Victorian cottages on Railway Street were built before The Duncombe Arms [;)]
Originally posted by thefair1973
yep, there is. ANd as for living next door - I'm sure the pub was tehre before you were...
Reply ID 64439
and how many of those people living there are the original owner[?]
Reply ID 64440
What's your point? Are you saying that you should only have a say in what happens in the building next door to your home if you are the original owner?
Reply ID 64442
Oh yes; Of course thats what i'm saying. Dur.
Reply ID 64445
I still don't quite get the point of that comment. So if I wanted to open a nightclub next door to Buckingham Palace the Queen should have no say in the matter as she isn't the original owner?!
Reply ID 64446
One could argue that when the cottages were built there was no such thing as "closing time" which was introduced in in the Defence of The Realm Act in 1914
Reply ID 64447
quote:Should have or not, she would have if unreasonable noise could be established. It makes no difference who was there first. The reverse is also true. There have been long established night venues closed because some developer built sheltered housing right on the doorstep.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
I still don't quite get the point of that comment. So if I wanted to open a nightclub next door to Buckingham Palace the Queen should have no say in the matter as she isn't the original owner?!
Reply ID 64448
quote:His point is, you moved into a house next door to a pub and now you're complaining about the noise.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
I still don't quite get the point of that comment.
Reply ID 64449
quote:No, she's complaining about the possible extension in the licence. (I think). And the fact that Hertford already has 15 late night drinking venues, so why do we need any more.
Originally posted by stevenquote:His point is, you moved into a house next door to a pub and now you're complaining about the noise.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
I still don't quite get the point of that comment.
Reply ID 64450
quote:The "Try living next door" part seems to indicate the problem with an extended licence is extended periods of noise/disorderly behaviour/mess. If there were no noise/behavioural issues in the first place, then an extended licence wouldn't be a problem, regardless as to how many pubs have a late licence.
Originally posted by 2929paul
No, she's complaining about the possible extension in the licence. (I think). And the fact that Hertford already has 15 late night drinking venues, so why do we need any more.
Reply ID 64451
Whilst I would try not to live next door to a pub, cos there will always be some noise, in the Centre of town its going to be really hard not to expect some noise, however, we keep getting told how many millions its costing the UK taxpayer to pay for our "late night economy", the attacks on ambulance crews, Police and emergency services, the clearing up the bottles, rubbish from takeaways and other unsavoury human emissions and then the pubs get granted a late licence! It would be great if you didn't get all the hassle associated with a late licence, but unfortunately we do. I agree with Steven on his post....
Reply ID 64452
quote:There is something to be said for the generation of tax by such activities though. I'd be suprised if the extra cost outways the extra income to the HMRC, particularly since it principally involves the sale of a tax inflated commodity. What has changed is that more residential (of the type which isn't "live and work") is mixed into town centres, compared with a few years ago. It's harder for residents and revellers to avoid interacting.
Originally posted by Drama Queen
Whilst I would try not to live next door to a pub, cos there will always be some noise, in the Centre of town its going to be really hard not to expect some noise, however, we keep getting told how many millions its costing the UK taxpayer to pay for our "late night economy", the attacks on ambulance crews, Police and emergency services, the clearing up the bottles, rubbish from takeaways and other unsavoury human emissions and then the pubs get granted a late licence! It would be great if you didn't get all the hassle associated with a late licence, but unfortunately we do. I agree with Steven on his post....
Reply ID 64453
quote:She isn't the owner now.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
I still don't quite get the point of that comment. So if I wanted to open a nightclub next door to Buckingham Palace the Queen should have no say in the matter as she isn't the original owner?!
Reply ID 64456
quote:Blimey. Sold within 2 days. Who's your agent?
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:She isn't the owner now.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
I still don't quite get the point of that comment. So if I wanted to open a nightclub next door to Buckingham Palace the Queen should have no say in the matter as she isn't the original owner?!
Reply ID 64457
I’d say you’ve got every right to oppose their late licence Kitty Kat, presumably you had no idea they’d do this when you moved into your present home. We had a similar problem when the White Lion near us decided to stop being a quiet edge of town pub, applied for a licence to stay open late and become a music venue. It just didn't seem fair, especially with so many children living nearby. A group of us went to the licence hearing in Bishops Stortford to oppose it. The outcome was that the new licence limited them to 60 live events per year, with a condition that all their doors and windows stay shut when amplified music is being played. To their credit, the White Lion keeps to these rules and is (on the whole) now a considerate neighbour.
Reply ID 64459
kitty kat has never actually said she lives anywhere near the duncombe arms. In all likelihood she doesnt. She seems to be opposing the general trend of late opening in hertford. Despite that being a huge positive for hertford as a town, and a major thing keeping the town alive. However, given that the precendence is set it's clearly unfair to suddenly start changing minds and stop giving licenses out. Of course; if she does live near by she should oppose formally, and it's likely she'll be listened to as your case was; If she doesnt live close, and does still oppose, I presume it'll be ignored as she'll stuggle to make a case.
Reply ID 64466
We own property that it rented out directly next door to the Duncombe and behind it. Our tenants have a right to enjoy their property in peace. The Duncombe has a late license and a license for live bands on the condition that they keep the windows and doors closed and use their 'limiting' system. They do none of these things. We would have expected to be notified of the extension application but were not. It appears that they are going to withdraw this application now following complaints. Late licenses can be revoked and licensing hours reduced if venues do not comply with the regulations. As the government is trying to build more houses etc in town centres and on brownfield sites, surely the local councils will have to make town centres good places to live in, work in and enjoy socially. A balance needs to be found.
Reply ID 64472
I've found the balance.. its called any other place in Europe .. I quite like Bruges and Nice is good too !
Reply ID 64478
quote:I doubt if kittykat would like them. From what I remember, neither is peaceful at night in the town centres.[:D] For personal taste, I can see only two reasons for town centre dwelling. One is because you are obliged to live above your place of work, the other is by choice, to enjoy the activity of the town and be part of it. Why anyone would rent a town centre flat and expect peace and quiet is quite beyond me. The Duncombe has never been a quiet gentleman's club. It was a bawdy venue when I moved here 40 years ago and still is. 24hr licencing, which forces pubs to compete for ever longer opening hours and the smoking ban, which means doors are repeatedly opened and half the noisy clientelle are outside at any one time, is a matter for national government. You can't have one pub allowed to trade and another forbidden to do so.
Originally posted by Drama Queen
I've found the balance.. its called any other place in Europe .. I quite like Bruges and Nice is good too !
Reply ID 64480
http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/hertfordshiremercury/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=430200 What a shame for those who do not wish to visit the likes of the blackbirds or storehouse for a late night drink, like myself.
Reply ID 64491
There are lots of other places for a late night drink - 11 others in fact. All of these are open beyond Midnight Sugar Hut, Deco, Six Templars, The White Hart, The Woolpack, The Lord Haig, Elbert Wurlings, The Old Barge, Baroosh, The Hertford House Hotel, Old Cross Tavern Take your pick [8D]
Reply ID 64503
quote:[:0]You are having a giraffe! When was the last time the OXT was open after midnight? With the exception of New Year I think you will find the answer to the question is never. I think you are getting confused with those establishments that have a licence to open late and those that actually do. Also, why has your initial claim of 15 late openers now reduced to 11? Don't get me wrong, I am not one of those that tends to indulge in the late night drinking culture (and the racket made by some of those on their way home on Friday and Saturday night does brass me off sometimes when I am trying to sleep), but I think you should check your facts before mis-representing certain establishments like that.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
There are lots of other places for a late night drink - 11 others in fact. All of these are open beyond Midnight Sugar Hut, Deco, Six Templars, The White Hart, The Woolpack, The Lord Haig, Elbert Wurlings, The Old Barge, Baroosh, The Hertford House Hotel, Old Cross Tavern Take your pick [8D]
Reply ID 64505
quote:The 15 included The Marquee - now defunct, the new hotel opening on Fore Street, The Duncombe Arms, The Blackbirds and The Stonehouse - so I did check my facts. It's not about whether they are open late regularly - it's about the fact that they can.
Originally posted by Aellequote:[:0]You are having a giraffe! When was the last time the OXT was open after midnight? With the exception of New Year I think you will find the answer to the question is never. I think you are getting confused with those establishments that have a licence to open late and those that actually do. Also, why has your initial claim of 15 late openers now reduced to 11? Don't get me wrong, I am not one of those that tends to indulge in the late night drinking culture (and the racket made by some of those on their way home on Friday and Saturday night does brass me off sometimes when I am trying to sleep), but I think you should check your facts before mis-representing certain establishments like that.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
There are lots of other places for a late night drink - 11 others in fact. All of these are open beyond Midnight Sugar Hut, Deco, Six Templars, The White Hart, The Woolpack, The Lord Haig, Elbert Wurlings, The Old Barge, Baroosh, The Hertford House Hotel, Old Cross Tavern Take your pick [8D]
Reply ID 64508
thats a stupid argument. you're moaning about the number of late night licenses, and saying surely we dont need 1 more, when in reality the number actually open is nowhere near the headline number you're talking about. No wonder there's divided support on this topic.
Reply ID 64509
It's all about choice. It doesn't make any difference how many late night venues there are if someone has a preference for a particular pub. I'm not a big drinker so I couldn't care less, but I do fail to see (noise, behaviour etc aside) what the problem is with pubs having late licences.
Reply ID 64805
I'd be interested if your tenants actually complained, or you did it on their behalf because of the reduced rental income you could receive if the Duncombe Arms opened later at weekends? Anyone who chooses to live next door to an entertainment venue should be aware of the noise that comes with it. I wouldn't like it if they opened a pub next door to me, regardless of what hours it was open. However, I would never choose to live next door to a pub. You chose to buy the property and your tenants choose to live there, so none of you should really start moaning about it.
Reply ID 64810
quote:Maybe the property was bought when the licencing laws had pubs closing at 11pm. If you buy a property next to a pub you accept this. However, you have every right to complain if the law changes and the pub stays open until 2am. In the same way as people buying property near a pub have to accept their environment, pubs also have to accept that they have residential neighbours and conduct their business accordingly.
Originally posted by thefair1973
I'd be interested if your tenants actually complained, or you did it on their behalf because of the reduced rental income you could receive if the Duncombe Arms opened later at weekends? Anyone who chooses to live next door to an entertainment venue should be aware of the noise that comes with it. I wouldn't like it if they opened a pub next door to me, regardless of what hours it was open. However, I would never choose to live next door to a pub. You chose to buy the property and your tenants choose to live there, so none of you should really start moaning about it.
Reply ID 64816
and in this case, the duncombe arms has very reasonably respected the situation with the neighbours - so good on them.
Reply ID 64847
quote:Everyone who lives around the immediate area wrote to complain - this obviously achieved the results we were hoping for. Yes the property was bought before the extending licensing laws came in - so thanks for your comment Steve. Of course as a landlord we have to protect our income - or do you like to work for free?!
Originally posted by Stevequote:Maybe the property was bought when the licencing laws had pubs closing at 11pm. If you buy a property next to a pub you accept this. However, you have every right to complain if the law changes and the pub stays open until 2am. In the same way as people buying property near a pub have to accept their environment, pubs also have to accept that they have residential neighbours and conduct their business accordingly.
Originally posted by thefair1973
I'd be interested if your tenants actually complained, or you did it on their behalf because of the reduced rental income you could receive if the Duncombe Arms opened later at weekends? Anyone who chooses to live next door to an entertainment venue should be aware of the noise that comes with it. I wouldn't like it if they opened a pub next door to me, regardless of what hours it was open. However, I would never choose to live next door to a pub. You chose to buy the property and your tenants choose to live there, so none of you should really start moaning about it.
Reply ID 64855
I hope they ignored every complaint from the residents of the 'Grand Designs' homes behind the Duncombe/Snug. They surely knew what they were letting themselves in for when they bought.
Reply ID 64858
Funnily enough - no they didn't ignore them. The owners of said homes did not buy them to witness drunken violence on a regular basis, have music being played outside all night long when no-one is even in the garden at 3am on a Saturday night. This is a breach of the conditions of the Duncombe's late license. If they stick to the rules there will be no problem [8D]
Reply ID 64859
quote:The landlords of the Duncombe also have to protect their income. Late hours licensing is a Pandora's box. It forces more and more applications and longer and longer working hours for publicans. The only beneficiaries are the big "pubco" companies. Surely though, as an owner of town centre property, your market is those who want a lively, town centre existence and are prepared to pay a premium for it. At least, that's how I market my property and with some success.
Originally posted by Kitty Katquote:Everyone who lives around the immediate area wrote to complain - this obviously achieved the results we were hoping for. Yes the property was bought before the extending licensing laws came in - so thanks for your comment Steve. Of course as a landlord we have to protect our income - or do you like to work for free?!
Originally posted by Stevequote:Maybe the property was bought when the licencing laws had pubs closing at 11pm. If you buy a property next to a pub you accept this. However, you have every right to complain if the law changes and the pub stays open until 2am. In the same way as people buying property near a pub have to accept their environment, pubs also have to accept that they have residential neighbours and conduct their business accordingly.
Originally posted by thefair1973
I'd be interested if your tenants actually complained, or you did it on their behalf because of the reduced rental income you could receive if the Duncombe Arms opened later at weekends? Anyone who chooses to live next door to an entertainment venue should be aware of the noise that comes with it. I wouldn't like it if they opened a pub next door to me, regardless of what hours it was open. However, I would never choose to live next door to a pub. You chose to buy the property and your tenants choose to live there, so none of you should really start moaning about it.
Reply ID 64860
i have never heard music blearing out at 3am nor customers there at 3am. and drunken violence regularly this is the duncombe not the stonehouse or blackbirds, likeevery pub there wil lbe incidents but hardly ever at the duncombe.
Reply ID 64864
quote:Yes people do pay a premium for town centre living. I agree that the only people that benefit are Greene King in the case of The Duncombe. This weekend they are proposing a Caribbean theme evening with a steel band in the garden - they do not have a licence for bands to play outside! The point is that it isn't really necessary for so many venues to be open until 2am+ - Hertford is essentialyl a pretty small town but with a big evening economy. I am all for businesses making a go of things, but not outside of rules that have been put in place for the protection of everyone else. As a landlord we have to protect our investments and our tenants rights of 'quiet enjoyment'!!
Originally posted by shuntquote:The landlords of the Duncombe also have to protect their income. Late hours licensing is a Pandora's box. It forces more and more applications and longer and longer working hours for publicans. The only beneficiaries are the big "pubco" companies. Surely though, as an owner of town centre property, your market is those who want a lively, town centre existence and are prepared to pay a premium for it. At least, that's how I market my property and with some success.
Originally posted by Kitty Katquote:Everyone who lives around the immediate area wrote to complain - this obviously achieved the results we were hoping for. Yes the property was bought before the extending licensing laws came in - so thanks for your comment Steve. Of course as a landlord we have to protect our income - or do you like to work for free?!
Originally posted by Stevequote:Maybe the property was bought when the licencing laws had pubs closing at 11pm. If you buy a property next to a pub you accept this. However, you have every right to complain if the law changes and the pub stays open until 2am. In the same way as people buying property near a pub have to accept their environment, pubs also have to accept that they have residential neighbours and conduct their business accordingly.
Originally posted by thefair1973
I'd be interested if your tenants actually complained, or you did it on their behalf because of the reduced rental income you could receive if the Duncombe Arms opened later at weekends? Anyone who chooses to live next door to an entertainment venue should be aware of the noise that comes with it. I wouldn't like it if they opened a pub next door to me, regardless of what hours it was open. However, I would never choose to live next door to a pub. You chose to buy the property and your tenants choose to live there, so none of you should really start moaning about it.
Reply ID 64872
I'm actually fairly sympathetic to all sides Kitty Kat. The 24hr rules cause problems for publicans and public alike.
Reply ID 64877
How many of the other 11...15 applications for extensions did Kitty Kat object to? the acronym NIMBY springs to mind
Reply ID 64880
quote:What's wrong with protecting your interests?
Originally posted by MoJo
How many of the other 11...15 applications for extensions did Kitty Kat object to? the acronym NIMBY springs to mind
Reply ID 64882
Of course you would only object to an application which impacts you
Reply ID 64895
Indeed - I am all for protecting my own interests - let's not pretend otherwise. An Englishman's home is his castle [:)]
Reply ID 64906
Heard an interesting thing on Heartbeat FM this morning on the news. The Oak Tavern in WGC has had so many complaints from locals about the noise from it.. that Welwyn hatfield council have taken away its very late licence (now only allowed to serve up to midnight and not 1.30 am) AND has to end all its music/performance acts by 11.00 pm! So... just thinking that if residents really were bothered by a lot of noise..I guess there are things that can happen..
Reply ID 64920
whinge whinge, etc etc
Reply ID 64923
quote:I don't think it matters how many there are or aren't, at all. Other things might, but not that.
Originally posted by Kitty Kat The point is that it isn't really necessary for so many venues to be open until 2am+
Reply ID 64925
quote:I can see this thread turning into another two lanes into one at the roundabout saga (two lanes for a reason) [:D]
Originally posted by thefair1973
whinge whinge, etc etc
Reply ID 64929
quote:[img]../images/forum/yellowcard.jpg[/img]
Originally posted by thefair1973
whinge whinge, etc etc
Reply ID 65028
what's that for? If I get another one am I banned?
Reply ID 83918
Went to the duncombe's pub quiz last night - it was quite fun. I think I always assumed it would be full of drunk students as it was a thursday but they obviously all go to the stonehouse