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Topic ID 3995

08/12/2008 by shunt

The importance of adequate competition in Hertford

For those who've heard me rant in less detail on this subject before, my apologies, but it is important for reasons I will later explain. If I were able to upload an image, I would show you a Tesco "Free From" ciabatta, sealed in it's packet, dated "use before 14 12 08" and blue with mould. This is a regular occurrence over a period of a year or more and continues despite having brought it to the attention of customer services, the manager of the store and head office on many occasions. Often the shelves are stocked with sell by dates which have already passed, but just as frequent is an "in date" product which is blue with mould and rotting in plain view of staff. The point is this:- If food standards cannot be maintained on this product, even after repeated tip-offs, can we trust the same company to have a working policy when it comes to potentially lethal products, like chicken, or seafood? Is it reasonable to assume that the failure of standards and policy affect only one in tens of thousands of product lines? This question has not been answered by Tesco and the rotten ciabatta persists. Has anyone else encountered rotten Tesco food more than once, or as the norm? A stale ciabatta tastes slightly of vinegar and produces a mild stomach upset, if not noticed. How are all you prawn eaters? Still alive? Other sources of Gluten-free bread are Sainsbury and Morrisons, neither of which have ever slipped up once, in my experience. They are, however, further away. I know that Tesco employ national media and web monitoring services. I wonder what they'll make of the report they receive on this forum entry.[}:)]


0 replies

Archived Replies

Reply ID 57918

08/12/2008 by aubend

I had the same experience with some Stilton. Opened it up and covered in mould. Terrible.


Reply ID 57920

08/12/2008 by Woody

quote:
Originally posted by aubend
I had the same experience with some Stilton. Opened it up and covered in mould. Terrible.
Mmm . . . sounds like Aubend's posts - you open them up, once in a while you get a fresh one that brings a strange smile to your face at the very thought, though predominantly the air turns blue and a stale sensation is felt throughout Hertford. [:D]


Reply ID 57922

08/12/2008 by shunt

quote:
Originally posted by aubend
I had the same experience with some Stilton. Opened it up and covered in mould. Terrible.
The odd, one-off mistake can occur and is distressing. I'm more interested in repeated incidents though, as that indicates inadequate and prolonged mis-management of food safety protocols. What was the response to the deceased stilton's return to the store. Replacement? Money back? Doesn't solve the problem if mouldy stiltons continue to be sold.


Reply ID 57923

08/12/2008 by Brockman

quote:
Originally posted by shunt
quote:
Originally posted by aubend
I had the same experience with some Stilton. Opened it up and covered in mould. Terrible.
The odd, one-off mistake can occur and is distressing. I'm more interested in repeated incidents though, as that indicates inadequate and prolonged mis-management of food safety protocols. What was the response to the deceased stilton's return to the store. Replacement? Money back? Doesn't solve the problem if mouldy stiltons continue to be sold.
Let's also bear in mind the sheer volume a company like Tesco processes. It's not a get out of jail free card, but I would argue there will be more products on one shelf of Tesco than an independent rival could hope to sell in a year; competition from Tesco or not.


Reply ID 57924

09/12/2008 by shunt

quote:
Originally posted by Brockman
quote:
Originally posted by shunt
quote:
Originally posted by aubend
I had the same experience with some Stilton. Opened it up and covered in mould. Terrible.
The odd, one-off mistake can occur and is distressing. I'm more interested in repeated incidents though, as that indicates inadequate and prolonged mis-management of food safety protocols. What was the response to the deceased stilton's return to the store. Replacement? Money back? Doesn't solve the problem if mouldy stiltons continue to be sold.
Let's also bear in mind the sheer volume a company like Tesco processes. It's not a get out of jail free card, but I would argue there will be more products on one shelf of Tesco than an independent rival could hope to sell in a year; competition from Tesco or not.
I agree, which is why the repetition involving one product is even more crucial. I'm talking about a huge number of items within only one product range, spread over multiple batch numbers and sampled over a long period. It would be unrealistic to assume it is the only product not being monitored for stock condition, or sell by date, or the accuracy of the projected shelf life. Logic would suggest it is unlikely that Tesco is really careful with every product except one, even when their attention is repeatedly drawn to there being a problem with that product.


Reply ID 57925

09/12/2008 by SallyB

I've seen many instances of moudly fruit and veg on the shelves at Tesco, before their sell-by date. I'm just very careful what I pick up in that store these days.


Reply ID 57926

09/12/2008 by Steve

Given the challenges of the Hertford store, I am surprised at how weak the management there is. It is also a result of the size of the organisation that it has lost the ability to communicate with it's customers in anything other that marketing. This is a problem across British industry in general, but most evident in the largest companies (don't get me started!).


Reply ID 57927

09/12/2008 by night owl

I have come across whole chickens with horrible green mould and not smelling to good as well but the thing that got up my nose was when the petrol prices went hay wire then a lot of price increases happened through out the store and the worse example was their Lancaster Corn Beef which was sitting at 78p a tin then shot up to over £1.50 something a tin and as for health and safety at the store if you remember the old fridges with the door that you pull open, well one day I grabbed the door handle on one and got a electric shock which I thought was just static then I opened another door further on and the same thing so the following week when I went shopping I took an electrical tester with me and it showed over a hundered volts flowing through the fridges which I reported to the council and they contacted the manager and a few weeks later new fridges.


Reply ID 57928

09/12/2008 by M.O.G.

Have come across mouldy fruit and veg also plainly on view to the staff and not removed, also have seen many egg cartons damaged leaking, broken and nothing done. Not just Hertford Tesco also found these problems in Ware Tesco, i think they have defernately let the standards drop unlike the prices on many things. Peanuts seem to go up weekly.


Reply ID 57929

09/12/2008 by MoJo

This is all very interesting but it does beg the question, WHY SHOP THERE?? If opinions on this forum are anything to go by Tesco is the ruination of Hertford so why, why do you continue to keep it going? and no, I have never set foot in the place.


Reply ID 57930

09/12/2008 by codek2

the opinions of the people in this forum bear no relation to the opinions of people in hertford in general. This forum is more akin to a cult than being representative of local people. But i guess you've hit the nail on the head - the original poster is pointing out that there's no other competition in hertford. Tesco is enforced on us. Some people can't travel to welwyn/hoddesdon/hatfield just to do a food shop. However if there was competition, nothing would change. Tesco's internal processes on best before dates, etc dont change just because of competition.


Reply ID 57931

09/12/2008 by Steve

quote:
Originally posted by codek2
the opinions of the people in this forum bear no relation to the opinions of people in hertford in general. This forum is more akin to a cult than being representative of local people.
How do you know that? Do you know everyone in Hertford? Clearly you set yourself apart from other members of the forum. You seem happy to try and discredit their opinions. Maybe you'd be happier if people didn't post their opinions here at all, because they conflict with what you consider to be the general view in the town. As an earlier poster said, if you don't like it don't use it.


Reply ID 57932

09/12/2008 by Steve

quote:
Originally posted by MoJo
If opinions on this forum are anything to go by Tesco is the ruination of Hertford.
I don't think anyone in this thread has said that Tesco is the ruination of Hertford. With respect, you're putting words into peolpe's mouths.


Reply ID 57935

09/12/2008 by MoJo

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by MoJo
If opinions on this forum are anything to go by Tesco is the ruination of Hertford.
I don't think anyone in this thread has said that Tesco is the ruination of Hertford. With respect, you're putting words into peolpe's mouths.
I didn't say this" thread"


Reply ID 57936

09/12/2008 by Jo S

quote:
Originally posted by codek2
But i guess you've hit the nail on the head - the original poster is pointing out that there's no other competition in hertford. Tesco is enforced on us. Some people can't travel to welwyn/hoddesdon/hatfield just to do a food shop. However if there was competition, nothing would change. Tesco's internal processes on best before dates, etc dont change just because of competition.
Um, there is Waitrose. I would far rather shop here and pay (slightly) more and get higher quality ingredients. Maybe the payback of the cheap cheap cheaper at any means Tesco model is occasional mouldy food - something has to give, and I would venture that in Tesco's case it is decent quality food.


Reply ID 57938

09/12/2008 by Steve

Waitrose and M&S Food aren't regarded as "direct" competition.


Reply ID 57939

09/12/2008 by codek2

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by codek2
the opinions of the people in this forum bear no relation to the opinions of people in hertford in general. This forum is more akin to a cult than being representative of local people.
How do you know that? Do you know everyone in Hertford? Clearly you set yourself apart from other members of the forum. You seem happy to try and discredit their opinions. Maybe you'd be happier if people didn't post their opinions here at all, because they conflict with what you consider to be the general view in the town. As an earlier poster said, if you don't like it don't use it.
It's very obvious. There's a very strong opinion on here that Tesco is the shop of the devil, yet it does extremely well and is always busy. Didnt someone even say that it was highly rated in turnover per square foot or something? Thats not to say people wouldnt go elsewhere given the option, but it does say that people are not overly unhappy with the place. I didnt discredit the opinions at all - but they're just that, and they are taken from a minor number of people (compared to the hertford population), who may or may not even live in hertford, who are using a medium which isnt available to all!


Reply ID 57943

09/12/2008 by Jo S

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Waitrose and M&S Food aren't regarded as "direct" competition.
How can shops selling food, as Tesco does, not be regarded as competition? Tesco, Waitrose and M&S are interchangelable - I can do my weekly shop at any of them; is that not the definition of a supplier offering similar goods and services?


Reply ID 57946

09/12/2008 by buzz

quote:
Originally posted by M.O.G.
Have come across mouldy fruit and veg also plainly on view to the staff and not removed, also have seen many egg cartons damaged leaking, broken and nothing done. Not just Hertford Tesco also found these problems in Ware Tesco, i think they have defernately let the standards drop unlike the prices on many things. Peanuts seem to go up weekly.
erm, bit like the spelling?


Reply ID 57947

09/12/2008 by M.O.G.

quote:
Originally posted by buzz
quote:
Originally posted by M.O.G.
Have come across mouldy fruit and veg also plainly on view to the staff and not removed, also have seen many egg cartons damaged leaking, broken and nothing done. Not just Hertford Tesco also found these problems in Ware Tesco, i think they have defernately let the standards drop unlike the prices on many things. Peanuts seem to go up weekly.
erm, bit like the spelling?
sorry for smelling my hands are old. sory cold.[xx(] Anyway M&S and Waitrose are not Direct competition for Tesco as they have higher prices on the majority of items, wheras a Sainsbury's or Asda would be direct competition for Tesco.


Reply ID 57948

09/12/2008 by shunt

quote:
Originally posted by MoJo
This is all very interesting but it does beg the question, WHY SHOP THERE?? If opinions on this forum are anything to go by Tesco is the ruination of Hertford so why, why do you continue to keep it going? and no, I have never set foot in the place.
In general, I'd buy nothing from Tesco. Not because I hate them or do not see the value of the concept, but because I find them of consistently low quality and high price. I am coeliac and can only have bread with no wheat content. Such products only appear in supermarkets and there is only one supermarket within walking distance (Waitrose and M&S are specialised stores). If I am going to Welwyn or Stevenage anyway, I'll take the opportunity of using the far better quality Sainsbury or Morrisons. Tesco has it's place in Hertford, but having displaced competition, it is complacent and lazy, even contemptuous, in it's attitude to the public.


Reply ID 57952

09/12/2008 by nuts

I am a bit confused here.... and I am sure I am not the only one!! M&S Food and Waitrose are not competiition because they charge higher prices?? That doesn't make sense. Or they are specialized?? (Given that M&S sells a lot of own label and pre-prepared foods, but then again thinking about it so does Tescos!) What was the competition before the big T drove it all out then??


Reply ID 57958

09/12/2008 by Steve

quote:
Originally posted by nuts
I am a bit confused here.... and I am sure I am not the only one!! M&S Food and Waitrose are not competiition because they charge higher prices?? That doesn't make sense. Or they are specialized?? (Given that M&S sells a lot of own label and pre-prepared foods, but then again thinking about it so does Tescos!) What was the competition before the big T drove it all out then??
M&S and Waitrose are not considered to be direct competition. This is because they trade on quality rather than price. As such they appeal to a different demographic. Before Tesco there was Waitrose and Gateway (formerly Fine Fine).


Reply ID 57959

09/12/2008 by shunt

quote:
Originally posted by nuts
I am a bit confused here.... and I am sure I am not the only one!! M&S Food and Waitrose are not competiition because they charge higher prices?? That doesn't make sense. Or they are specialized?? (Given that M&S sells a lot of own label and pre-prepared foods, but then again thinking about it so does Tescos!) What was the competition before the big T drove it all out then??
Tescos strategy has had an effect on the way Britain shops in general. From smaller supermarkets, like Fine Fare, Budgen and Spar, to local stores, such as the one once on Ware road the two now missing from Bengeo Street, the many butchers and bakers which no longer exist(candlestick makers were already gone[:D]). M&S and Waitrose have aimed for the niche market that they have, because of the presence of Tesco. Sainsbury, Asda and Morrisons tackle them in a similar product spread, but Tesco tactic oversizing their own store, will often keep a second competitor out. There is no doubt that Tesco suffers little for it's disregard for local planning or customer service. It is a very successful formula. We all want to believe "Every little helps" and that it is "Your car park". The reality is quite different.


Reply ID 57964

09/12/2008 by Jo S

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by nuts
I am a bit confused here.... and I am sure I am not the only one!! M&S Food and Waitrose are not competiition because they charge higher prices?? That doesn't make sense. Or they are specialized?? (Given that M&S sells a lot of own label and pre-prepared foods, but then again thinking about it so does Tescos!) What was the competition before the big T drove it all out then??
M&S and Waitrose are not considered to be direct competition. This is because they trade on quality rather than price. As such they appeal to a different demographic. Before Tesco there was Waitrose and Gateway (formerly Fine Fine).
Errr - how do you explain the different Tesco own label ranges then, like the value and Finest ranges? Finest surely tries to promote itself as a luxury brand? Tesco has c. 12 million Clubcard holders, who represent a cross section of British consumers. One of the reasons for their success is the fact that they have different ranges which appeal to different consumers (whether they achieve it or not is a matter of opinion). Also, Waitrose is part of John Lewis - who promote themself as being 'never knowingly undersold' ie, price competition. Also, how is Waitrose a specialist retailer? Farrow and Farrow is a specialist retailer - most people would be challenged to do their weekly shop there. Waitrose, on the other hand, sells a wide range of goods from numerous suppliers in shops that have tills and baskets and trolleys. This is a supermarket[B)].


Reply ID 57971

09/12/2008 by shunt

quote:
Originally posted by Jo S
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by nuts
I am a bit confused here.... and I am sure I am not the only one!! M&S Food and Waitrose are not competiition because they charge higher prices?? That doesn't make sense. Or they are specialized?? (Given that M&S sells a lot of own label and pre-prepared foods, but then again thinking about it so does Tescos!) What was the competition before the big T drove it all out then??
M&S and Waitrose are not considered to be direct competition. This is because they trade on quality rather than price. As such they appeal to a different demographic. Before Tesco there was Waitrose and Gateway (formerly Fine Fine).
Errr - how do you explain the different Tesco own label ranges then, like the value and Finest ranges? Finest surely tries to promote itself as a luxury brand? Tesco has c. 12 million Clubcard holders, who represent a cross section of British consumers. One of the reasons for their success is the fact that they have different ranges which appeal to different consumers (whether they achieve it or not is a matter of opinion). Also, Waitrose is part of John Lewis - who promote themself as being 'never knowingly undersold' ie, price competition. Also, how is Waitrose a specialist retailer? Farrow and Farrow is a specialist retailer - most people would be challenged to do their weekly shop there. Waitrose, on the other hand, sells a wide range of goods from numerous suppliers in shops that have tills and baskets and trolleys. This is a supermarket[B)].
The biggest mark up is on the "Finest" ranges. Packaged and pre-prepared to be marketed as such, the contents are often of lower quality than the standard ranges. Cheap chicken with a dollop of a sauce an a couple of shallots at twice the price. Buy some free range organic chicken and the sauce separately and you'll save money and eat better. Alternatively, visit Waitrose and read your chicken's life history before you buy. Waitrose specialises in high quality and unusual versions of food. They have most things you'll need for a family meal, but they don't try to compete on light bulbs, socks and spatulas too. Beware of Clubcard. It tells Tesco where you live, your email address, your age and sex, the size of your family, what you buy, even when your period is due. If you are happy with that and believe that information is safe in Tesco's loving hands, fine. If not, don't use it.


Reply ID 57976

09/12/2008 by Loving Whale

Codek2 I fundamentally disagree here, for the following reasons... I am pro-Tesco, I'm a former employee and a shareholder still. I think Hertford and Ware are two of the poorest stores in the group and have been consistently for nearly 10 years - and I'm at a loss as to why....they're very close to the two major Head Office locations in Welwyn and Cheshunt and yet both stores have had weak management teams, a slapdash approach to customer service and the clear procedures that the Company ALREADY sets down - eg stock rotation, cleaning, appropriate staffing levels - I could go on but it just depresses me. All I can surmise is that lack of competition has ensured consistently high revenues, in spite of their crap service because of a lack of viable local alternatives. Yes, Hertford has a Waitrose and they're good at what they do but the price-point is always going to deter many increasingly cost-conscious shoppers. A good sized ASDA, JS, Aldi or Netto would take market-share, reduce Tesco revenues and force them to re-examine those stores and address their shortfalls. QED, competition = Keener prices and better standards. Just other one comment, am I the only one who took Aubend's post about mouldy stilton as a p**s-take? Think about it.....

quote:
Originally posted by codek2
the opinions of the people in this forum bear no relation to the opinions of people in hertford in general. This forum is more akin to a cult than being representative of local people. But i guess you've hit the nail on the head - the original poster is pointing out that there's no other competition in hertford. Tesco is enforced on us. Some people can't travel to welwyn/hoddesdon/hatfield just to do a food shop. However if there was competition, nothing would change. Tesco's internal processes on best before dates, etc dont change just because of competition.


Reply ID 57981

09/12/2008 by Deveraux

quote:
Originally posted by Loving Whale Just other one comment, am I the only one who took Aubend's post about mouldy stilton as a p**s-take? Think about it.....
Panic not Loving Whale, I thought exactly the same as you when I read that post!


Reply ID 57982

09/12/2008 by codek2

I also assumed the stilton comment was a joke, how can it be otherwise!


Reply ID 57985

09/12/2008 by nuts

Nope I am sorry, I still don't agree. They are competition, marketed and pitched in a different way I agree. Tescos range from economy to finest shows they are trying to appeal to a wide an audience as possible. The element of mark up and what you may think of their recipes has nothing to do with competition in the broadest sense. Both are supermarkets selling food stuffs. On the basis of everything said so far, Tescos are not in competition with Farrow & Farrow for example (then all the previous discussions regarding local, quality etc etc would go out of the window)?? I accept that F&F have carved a niche but Tesco do play in that area (but only as a small part of its overall business). BTW could you even get Free From Ciabatta from somewhere like Gateway, Fine Fine etc?? I think sometimes we are spoilt for choice that has often been provided to the mass markets by Tescos!!


Reply ID 57988

09/12/2008 by Steve

quote:
Originally posted by nuts
BTW could you even get Free From Ciabatta from somewhere like Gateway, Fine Fine etc?? I think sometimes we are spoilt for choice that has often been provided to the mass markets by Tescos!!
The supermarkets of today are a far cry from the supermarkets on the 70s. I doubt if even Tesco sold them at that time (do you remember what Tescos were like in the 70s?! They had more in common with today's Aldi). Even when they did introduce them I'm not sure that they would have been the first of the supermarkets to sell them.


Reply ID 57989

09/12/2008 by 2929paul

We stopped shopping at Tesco completely at protest at their plans for expansion. We now shop at places that I can only assume one might call their competition i.e. Waitrose (mainly) & M&S.


Reply ID 57992

09/12/2008 by Jo S

quote:
Originally posted by shunt
quote:
Originally posted by Jo S
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by nuts
I am a bit confused here.... and I am sure I am not the only one!! M&S Food and Waitrose are not competiition because they charge higher prices?? That doesn't make sense. Or they are specialized?? (Given that M&S sells a lot of own label and pre-prepared foods, but then again thinking about it so does Tescos!) What was the competition before the big T drove it all out then??
M&S and Waitrose are not considered to be direct competition. This is because they trade on quality rather than price. As such they appeal to a different demographic. Before Tesco there was Waitrose and Gateway (formerly Fine Fine).
Errr - how do you explain the different Tesco own label ranges then, like the value and Finest ranges? Finest surely tries to promote itself as a luxury brand? Tesco has c. 12 million Clubcard holders, who represent a cross section of British consumers. One of the reasons for their success is the fact that they have different ranges which appeal to different consumers (whether they achieve it or not is a matter of opinion). Also, Waitrose is part of John Lewis - who promote themself as being 'never knowingly undersold' ie, price competition. Also, how is Waitrose a specialist retailer? Farrow and Farrow is a specialist retailer - most people would be challenged to do their weekly shop there. Waitrose, on the other hand, sells a wide range of goods from numerous suppliers in shops that have tills and baskets and trolleys. This is a supermarket[B)].
The biggest mark up is on the "Finest" ranges. Packaged and pre-prepared to be marketed as such, the contents are often of lower quality than the standard ranges. Cheap chicken with a dollop of a sauce an a couple of shallots at twice the price. Buy some free range organic chicken and the sauce separately and you'll save money and eat better. Alternatively, visit Waitrose and read your chicken's life history before you buy. Waitrose specialises in high quality and unusual versions of food. They have most things you'll need for a family meal, but they don't try to compete on light bulbs, socks and spatulas too. Beware of Clubcard. It tells Tesco where you live, your email address, your age and sex, the size of your family, what you buy, even when your period is due. If you are happy with that and believe that information is safe in Tesco's loving hands, fine. If not, don't use it.
I know all about Clubcard through my job. The funny thing is though, that even though Tesco have all this information (can neither confirm nor deny the part about the menstrual cycle), they don't do much with it.


Reply ID 58005

09/12/2008 by SMT

One of the key uses of Clubcard is to work out where people shop and to identify gaps in the market to build and expand new stores. They can obviously target their marketing based on what you buy and send appropriate vouchers.


Reply ID 58007

09/12/2008 by shunt

quote:
I know all about Clubcard through my job. The funny thing is though, that even though Tesco have all this information (can neither confirm nor deny the part about the menstrual cycle), they don't do much with it.
Apart from the odd personal comment from IT staff to female members of staff. Never a good thing, too much unecessary information floating about. You never know who might use it, and for what.


Reply ID 58009

09/12/2008 by shunt

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by nuts
BTW could you even get Free From Ciabatta from somewhere like Gateway, Fine Fine etc?? I think sometimes we are spoilt for choice that has often been provided to the mass markets by Tescos!!
The supermarkets of today are a far cry from the supermarkets on the 70s. I doubt if even Tesco sold them at that time (do you remember what Tescos were like in the 70s?! They had more in common with today's Aldi). Even when they did introduce them I'm not sure that they would have been the first of the supermarkets to sell them.
Indeed they didn't. At the time coeliacs desease was a mystery, later to be misdiagnosed as ME. Gluten free bread of this type is entirely a product of bulk shopping (though originally sold by health food outlets) but the subject was the management of it's shelf life, not it's existence. By the way, it's called "ciabatta" only because gluten free bread is nothing like bread[xx(]. It's actually nothing like ciabatta either, but hey ho...


Reply ID 58021

09/12/2008 by Woody

quote:
Originally posted by Loving Whale
Just other one comment, am I the only one who took Aubend's post about mouldy stilton as a p**s-take? Think about it.....
I thought the mention of blue and a smiley in my reply was a giveaway [B)]


Reply ID 58022

09/12/2008 by shunt

quote:
Originally posted by Loving Whale Just other one comment, am I the only one who took Aubend's post about mouldy stilton as a p**s-take? Think about it.....
I did occur, for a moment, but then I realised that wrapped Stilton "covered in mould" is definately not right.[:D] The mould should be veined within the cheese, not covering it. Also Aubend is not renowned for humourous posts on this forum.


38 replies