Topic ID 3776
Following on from rumours about The Sportsman becoming a Muslim community centre, as far as I know there IS no Muslim community in Hertford. I know there is what appears to be a Friday Prayer Meeting at the Friends Meeting house, but those attending seem to be out-of-towners. The only time you ever see them is on a Friday, which suggest they are not local. Where do they come from and why do they travel to Hertford to worship?
Reply ID 54825
quote:Steve. Of course there is and you surely know it. You are making a very bold statement and incorrect suggestion that there is not a Muslim community in Hertford. If you talk to some of the restaurant owners you will find that there is a already a Muslim community down every street and has been for many years. Muslims have lived in many a street for years. Who is 'them' by the way? What is the problem with out of towners coming here anyway?
Originally posted by Steve
Following on from rumours about The Sportsman becoming a Muslim community centre, as far as I know there IS no Muslim community in Hertford. I know there is what appears to be a Friday Prayer Meeting at the Friends Meeting house, but those attending seem to be out-of-towners. The only time you ever see them is on a Friday, which suggest they are not local. Where do they come from and why do they travel to Hertford to worship?
Reply ID 54843
It is not always that I agree with James007 but in this instance he is spot on. I think you are exhibiting a quite shocking level of ignorance here Steve if you think there is no local Muslim community. Of course there is, its just that the local folks, along with the vast majority of Islamic followers are not terrorist suspects but perfectly normal people who want to go about their everyday, peaceable business the same as everyone else. They just happen to have different religious beliefs from other members of society. Is that too difficult a concept to understand - difference - in a world of broad equality?
Reply ID 54844
Boy oh boy!! some people are just too damn quick to take offence where none was intended, I read Steve's post as a genuine question, no subtext or malice intended. You guys should chill
Reply ID 54845
Thank you James and Aelle, I'm sure you speak for many of us. The general tone of Steve's comment does seem to suggest that he'd be opposed to a Muslim community centre in Hertford. Perhaps he could clarify.
Reply ID 54847
I find it ridiculous that religions are protected by law and social pressure from commentary, when the millions of non-religious persons have no such benefit. Very few religions' collective morality contains little to criticise. Belonging to a religious organisation is not the same as belonging to as race (quite properly protected) as membership is not a passive accident of birth.
Reply ID 54848
Sadly, I think that there won't be a lot of posts regarding this. When Steve posted the words 'them' and 'they', it became a very xenophobic idealism, a totally narrow-minded statement which is a sad reflection on society today. This one sentence could have been worded a lot better: "Where do they come from and why do they travel to Hertford to worship?"
Reply ID 54850
quote:It depends how one reads it. It could be taken as, "If these are not Hertford residents, what is preventing a more convenient premises in the place of residence." A new Christian church where there was insufficient likely congregation living nearby would seem odd in the modern age. However, the simple answer may be that we have a number of resident Muslim worshippers and a larger number who work in the town. The Muslim religion has a fairly tightly observed timetable, which makes a place of worship close to the workplace essential when working hours are influenced by a different and conflicting timetable.
Originally posted by James007
Sadly, I think that there won't be a lot of posts regarding this. When Steve posted the words 'them' and 'they', it became a very xenophobic idealism, a totally narrow-minded statement which is a sad reflection on society today. This one sentence could have been worded a lot better: "Where do they come from and why do they travel to Hertford to worship?"
Reply ID 54851
I have always understood that it is against the Muslim religion to use alcohol, so turning a place that use to sell it into a place of worship would be an offence to their religion?
Reply ID 54854
quote:Devine conversion, perhaps? If a catholic church can become a mosque (Istanbul, for instance) and shrug off it's offensive history, a pub is surely less of a challenge.
Originally posted by night owl
I have always understood that it is against the Muslim religion to use alcohol, so turning a place that use to sell it into a place of worship would be an offence to their religion?
Reply ID 54855
Thank you Mojo, I'm sure you speak for many of us. It appears we're unable to use the words 'them' and 'they', to describe a group of people. When did that happen? I hope other members of this forum will be able to respond to the oiginal post without the fear of ridicule. Shuush, Listen - I can hear the church bells from St.Marys. Aren't Campanologists great, though you never see 'them'. I wonder who 'they' are and where 'they' come from. OMG - another very xenophobic idealism in the same post because all campanologists come from overseas. Right? In answer to Steve's post - Yes, I expect there is Muslim community in Hertford but because you're not part of it - you are unaware of it. I think there is also a small Pagan community as well and probably a very small Jedi community too.
Reply ID 54871
I think Craig's talking about us. OH brought up Muslim but on 2001 census converted to Jedi. Me, well Pagan if you believe the census
Reply ID 54888
I don't think there's ever been a problem with using words such as them and they when talking about a group of people. However, when that turns to generalisation it becomes a different matter. If I was one of the people attending the Friday Prayer and I saw the first post on this thread, "Where do they come from and why do they travel to Hertford to worship" I'd feel a level of exclusion from this forum. Maybe I'm too easily offended but reading it did feel rather like them and us.
Reply ID 54890
i think there is friday prayer held at the quakers building in hertford every friday, does anyone else know about that? also is there anyone going to the meeting being held at the castle tonight re this topic?
Reply ID 54900
Well said Craig. As usual in this country serious issues that need to be discussed openly get lost in a fog of PC madness. No wonder politicians are terrified of openly discussing the social problems caused by disparate groups (of varying levels of intolerance) living together.
Reply ID 54905
Put away your Daily Mail Carlos and read again what Steve said. If you were a Muslim would that make you feel welcome in Hertford?
Reply ID 54907
quote:I'm interested in this meeting. What was the object of the meeting?
Originally posted by teddylad
i think there is friday prayer held at the quakers building in hertford every friday, does anyone else know about that? also is there anyone going to the meeting being held at the castle tonight re this topic?
Reply ID 54908
It was actually a Town Council Planning Sub-Committee meeting and one of the items for discussion was the deteriorating condition of the Sportsman PH and the future of the building. It wasn't a meeting specifically to discuss a "Muslim Community Centre".
Reply ID 54909
quote:Thanks. That's something like I guessed it to be.
Originally posted by Steve
It was actually the Town Council's Planning Sub-Committee and one of the items for discussion was the deteriorating condition of the Sportsman PH and the future of the building. It wasn't a meeting specifically to discuss a "Muslim Community Centre".
Reply ID 54916
Not a Mail reader Dennis and to be perfectly frank i couldn't give a fig what people follow as long as all credes are tolerated equally. My point earlier had nothing to do with whether Muslims are welcome in hertford or not, it was all to do with the nitpicking over the language people use. We tie ourselves up in such knots trying not to offend anyone that nothing ever gets discussed properly and openly.
Reply ID 54920
quote:Exactly. My friends who do a lot of films recently tackled this subject... people being too politically correct. I'd love to repeat one of the jokes, but I fear it's a little too riské for this forum...
Originally posted by carlos fandango
Not a Mail reader Dennis and to be perfectly frank i couldn't give a fig what people follow as long as all credes are tolerated equally. My point earlier had nothing to do with whether Muslims are welcome in hertford or not, it was all to do with the nitpicking over the language people use. We tie ourselves up in such knots trying not to offend anyone that nothing ever gets discussed properly and openly.
Reply ID 54939
Oh go on Brockman...[:)]
Reply ID 54954
quote:http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/hertfordshiremercury%2Dnews/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=345281
Originally posted by Steve
It was actually a Town Council Planning Sub-Committee meeting and one of the items for discussion was the deteriorating condition of the Sportsman PH and the future of the building. It wasn't a meeting specifically to discuss a "Muslim Community Centre".
Reply ID 54962
quote:OK So the whole thing about it turning into a Muslim Community Centre was total B*llocks dreamed up by the Mercury? Why Am I not surprised???
Originally posted by hertford born and bredquote:http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/hertfordshiremercury%2Dnews/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=345281
Originally posted by Steve
It was actually a Town Council Planning Sub-Committee meeting and one of the items for discussion was the deteriorating condition of the Sportsman PH and the future of the building. It wasn't a meeting specifically to discuss a "Muslim Community Centre".