Topic ID 3425
Tesco Stores have issued the following press release: Hertfordshire based retailer, Tesco will be exhibiting detailed plans for the proposed redevelopment to its store in Hertford next week. The exhibition, which will include a model of the scheme, will take place in a mobile unit in the store car-park on Friday 29th February from 1pm until 5pm and again on Saturday 1st March from 10am until 3pm. Public exhibitions outlining the initial plans for the redevelopment of the store were held in January to get the views of the local community. During the exhibitions, Tesco agreed with local residents to meet with them again to show the detailed designs that have now evolved through the consultation. Michael Kissman of Tesco said, “We made a promise to the people of Hertford that we would go back to them when we had developed our proposals. Engaging with the community whilst the designs were evolving has been invaluable in ensuring the scheme offers maximum benefits to the community”. “We now have a scheme that we believe is right for Hertford – the proposals will provide around 100 new jobs and 52 new homes, including affordable housing. Shoppers will be attracted to back into Hertford from nearby out of town stores, helping to increase town centre trade and the plans will provide an environmentally friendly and sustainable site to preserve and enhance the town’s historical character.” Tesco’s proposals will also include around 10,000 square foot of space for a community use. The company is currently discussing the possibility of using this space for a new doctor’s surgery with a local GP.
Reply ID 49581
Hmmm. Some years ago I was involved on a plan to re-develop a town center in a neighboring county. We also added "sweetners", including a surgery and community space (affordable housing is a legal requirement anyway). For those who might be opposed to the expansion, I'll tell you that what eventually scuppered our plan, was demands for more and more of these "sweetners" during the consultation stage, which delayed the project for years and pushed the cost beyond what was viable. We didn't fear rejection or public protest at all, because we knew that we already satisfied the requirement of planning law and could appeal any decision.
Reply ID 49588
doesnt look like they have much imagination - a surgery is exactly the bribe they provided to waltham abbey a few years ago, and now they have an absolutely enormous store. Tesco spent years trying to get that through.
Reply ID 49589
quote:Oh yes, there's much more serious money behind this and if they really want it, (rather than it just being a Sainsbury plan spoiler) it will happen, but there's an opportunity to beg some big community "bribes" in the process. A surgery is not a gift. It's a commercial premises which attracts rent for Tesco. You go to the doctor, then into Tesco's in house dispensary to get medicine. So much for community and support for town center trade. You don't even need to visit the town to fill a prescription!
Originally posted by codek2
doesnt look like they have much imagination - a surgery is exactly the bribe they provided to waltham abbey a few years ago, and now they have an absolutely enormous store. Tesco spent years trying to get that through.
Reply ID 49591
quote:Oh yes, there's much more serious money behind this and if they really want it, (rather than it just being a Sainsbury plan spoiler) it will happen, but there's an opportunity to beg some big community "bribes" in the process. A surgery is not a gift. It's a commercial premises which attracts rent for Tesco. You go to the doctor, then into Tesco's in house dispensary to get medicine. So much for community and support for town center trade. You don't even need to visit the town to fill a prescription! Bye,bye Boots and the other chemists in town, why are we going to bother about having a town? we can get everything under one roof and NO competition - Tesco is like a big monster eating everything in it's path - Hertford renamed - Tescovile (not a spelling mistake!)[:(!]
Originally posted by shunt
[quote]Originally posted by codek2
doesnt look like they have much imagination - a surgery is exactly the bribe they provided to waltham abbey a few years ago, and now they have an absolutely enormous store. Tesco spent years trying to get that through.
Reply ID 49592
quote:I thought Waltham Abbey only got a Tesco Express Petrol station?
Originally posted by codek2
doesnt look like they have much imagination - a surgery is exactly the bribe they provided to waltham abbey a few years ago, and now they have an absolutely enormous store. Tesco spent years trying to get that through.
Reply ID 49593
We should ask them to fund a Town Centre Manager, put in place an environmentally friendly community shopper bus service - running four free battery powered buses an hour around Hertford - and to ensure all the footpaths and lighting around the town centre are properly maintained. Since they are so keen to serve the shopping community in Hertford. Any other ideas?
Reply ID 49594
“Shoppers will be attracted to back into Hertford from nearby out of town stores, helping to increase town centre trade and the plans will provide an environmentally friendly and sustainable site to preserve and enhance the town’s historical character.” I had to laugh when I read this ....Do they mean the evil out of town stores like Tesco Brookfield and Tesco Hatfield?
Reply ID 49595
quote:You mean get them to do the councils job?
Originally posted by 2929paul
We should ask them to fund a Town Centre Manager, put in place an environmentally friendly community shopper bus service - running four free battery powered buses an hour around Hertford - and to ensure all the footpaths and lighting around the town centre are properly maintained. Since they are so keen to serve the shopping community in Hertford. Any other ideas?
Reply ID 49599
quote:I'd say obtaining funding from private sponsorship is entirely within a local council's remit.
Originally posted by Dudequote:You mean get them to do the councils job?
Originally posted by 2929paul
We should ask them to fund a Town Centre Manager, put in place an environmentally friendly community shopper bus service - running four free battery powered buses an hour around Hertford - and to ensure all the footpaths and lighting around the town centre are properly maintained. Since they are so keen to serve the shopping community in Hertford. Any other ideas?
Reply ID 49602
So, the Tescos PR/Spin machine has reached as far as the local forum. With happy quotes from Michael Kissman about how appreciative we should all be for Tesco attracting shoppers back to Hertford. Rather than the wide-ranging damage that it is going to cause. (Small shops, traffic congestion, conservation areas, sustainability....) You're right Dude, shoppers attracted back to a bigger Tescos, from other Tesco stores - thats just great! We can only hope that the infiltration of the forum by big business results in more people seeing what a preposterous and misguided proposal this is. It will be interesting though to see how the torrent of objections to the whole proposal (through the 'consultation') has been integrated into the scheme.
Reply ID 49604
quote:I think so too. But private sponsorship is voluntary. The topic above seems to be about getting a commercial business to privately fund repairs and maintenance that the council are legislated to provide.
Originally posted by shuntquote:I'd say obtaining funding from private sponsorship is entirely within a local council's remit.
Originally posted by Dudequote:You mean get them to do the councils job?
Originally posted by 2929paul
We should ask them to fund a Town Centre Manager, put in place an environmentally friendly community shopper bus service - running four free battery powered buses an hour around Hertford - and to ensure all the footpaths and lighting around the town centre are properly maintained. Since they are so keen to serve the shopping community in Hertford. Any other ideas?
Reply ID 49607
quote:When there is development on a scale which impacts a community, or a nation, as strongly as Tesco does, it can be thought of as compensation.[;)]
quote:I think so too. But private sponsorship is voluntary. The topic above seems to be about getting a commercial business to privately fund repairs and maintenance that the council are legislated to provide.
quote:I'd say obtaining funding from private sponsorship is entirely within a local council's remit.
You mean get them to do the councils job?
Reply ID 49610
quote:A bit like UBR then [:D]
Originally posted by Dude
...The topic above seems to be about getting a commercial business to privately fund repairs and maintenance that the council are legislated to provide.
Reply ID 49613
quote:[:)] I like it. But we all know what the council do when blue chips come to town. [img]http://prince.org/i/s/sym_ky.gif[/img]
Originally posted by shunt When there is development on a scale which impacts a community, or a nation, as strongly as Tesco does, it can be thought of as compensation.[;)]
Reply ID 49615
Michael Kissman is putting so much emphasis on how Tesco is part of the Hertford community and how he is listening to the Hertford community and how Tesco is environmentally friendly and how he wants to benefit the Hertford community, perhaps he could put some of his profits back into the Hertford community in order to benefit it. I mean, since the council has all our council tax taken away from it by the government so that it can fund councils in the poorer areas of the country. Just seems like a nice thing for Tesco to do. The Kissman staement obviously shows that they care. Why else would Tesco want to expand the Hertford store? Obvious really....caring, sharing Tesco!
Reply ID 49617
Of course the biggest deterrent to Tesco would be the approval of Sainsbury's plan, and visa-versa. We are going to get something in the way of major retail development, because there's too much money involved for it to just go away. It's just a matter of what.
Reply ID 49618
quote:no; they built a full doctors surgery. "getting" a petrol station is hardly community bribe material!
Originally posted by Dudequote:I thought Waltham Abbey only got a Tesco Express Petrol station?
Originally posted by codek2
doesnt look like they have much imagination - a surgery is exactly the bribe they provided to waltham abbey a few years ago, and now they have an absolutely enormous store. Tesco spent years trying to get that through.
Reply ID 49619
quote:Tesco is as caring and sharing as every independent retailer in town. In otherwords, no one would do it unless their is money in it. Sure its spin, so is every bit of publicity for any retailer.
Originally posted by 2929paul
Michael Kissman is putting so much emphasis on how Tesco is part of the Hertford community and how he is listening to the Hertford community and how Tesco is environmentally friendly and how he wants to benefit the Hertford community, perhaps he could put some of his profits back into the Hertford community in order to benefit it. I mean, since the council has all our council tax taken away from it by the government so that it can fund councils in the poorer areas of the country. Just seems like a nice thing for Tesco to do. The Kissman staement obviously shows that they care. Why else would Tesco want to expand the Hertford store? Obvious really....caring, sharing Tesco!
Reply ID 49620
quote:Word!
Originally posted by shunt
Of course the biggest deterrent to Tesco would be the approval of Sainsbury's plan, and visa-versa. We are going to get something in the way of major retail development, because there's too much money involved for it to just go away. It's just a matter of what.
Reply ID 49621
quote:Exactly. I should have just said that Kissman is talking out of his arse and should stop playing us for fools. If Tesco put forward their actual plans, we can see what the impact will be on our environment and community and make objections accordingly. If we have any objections. Roll on Friday.
Originally posted by Dudequote:Tesco is as caring and sharing as every independent retailer in town. In otherwords, no one would do it unless their is money in it. Sure its spin, so is every bit of publicity for any retailer.
Originally posted by 2929paul
Michael Kissman is putting so much emphasis on how Tesco is part of the Hertford community and how he is listening to the Hertford community and how Tesco is environmentally friendly and how he wants to benefit the Hertford community, perhaps he could put some of his profits back into the Hertford community in order to benefit it. I mean, since the council has all our council tax taken away from it by the government so that it can fund councils in the poorer areas of the country. Just seems like a nice thing for Tesco to do. The Kissman staement obviously shows that they care. Why else would Tesco want to expand the Hertford store? Obvious really....caring, sharing Tesco!
Reply ID 49622
Do you think we ask them for an improved train station and train timetabling at Hertford East to accomodate all these extra people living in the flats and coming to Tesco to shop?
Reply ID 49623
Mr Kissman will have a well rehearsed speech. Skip over to St Albans for a moment - anything seem familiar? [url]http://www.tescostalbans.co.uk/benefits.html[/url]
Reply ID 49625
There is no doubt that Tesco will NOT bring shoppers into the town, but displace town center shopping. With their current national concentration on non-food (the purpose of the expansion) many local retailers are at risk, in clothing, electrical goods and housewares and the proposal for the site is also very strongly car biased. As much as I can see drawbacks to the Sainsbury proposal (it's likely to affect me more than Tesco), at the moment it seems like the least damaging to Hertford as a whole. It isn't just the street right outside our doors which makes Hertford a good place to live.
Reply ID 49626
Quick, somebody register the domain http://www.tescohertford.co.uk! [:D]
Reply ID 49631
I'd rather see Tesco stay as it is (maybe with a refurb) and let the sainsburys site go ahead if it was kept to a similar size as the current tesco. That's not going to happen but in an ideal world...........
Reply ID 49632
We already have a suitable website for Tesco to refer to. http://www.hertfordresidents.com/ Check it out. Perhaps they should as well.
Reply ID 49660
the problem with topics such as this on this forum is surely tesco could take it as a "survey." there are 100's (1000's?) of people registered on this forum, but only a minority have posted against tesco plans. so they'll probably take that to mean that the majority support it.
Reply ID 49661
quote:The assumption being that they give a monkey's........? Public opinion is no obstacle at all.
Originally posted by codek2
the problem with topics such as this on this forum is surely tesco could take it as a "survey." there are 100's (1000's?) of people registered on this forum, but only a minority have posted against tesco plans. so they'll probably take that to mean that the majority support it.
Reply ID 49663
The point is, at the moment there's no proof that public opinion is against this development.
Reply ID 49667
quote:Exactly, just because a vocal minority are shouting about why they think is shouldn't come, doesn't mean the other 24,000 residents of Hertford don't welcome it.
Originally posted by codek2
The point is, at the moment there's no proof that public opinion is against this development.
Reply ID 49675
Judging by the number of people who went to see the last proposal at the corn exchange, the vast majority were against the proposal. As a straw poll this would at least seem indicative of the feeling of the people of Hertford. Without an actual town referendum it would be difficult to judge any other way. It shouldn't be up to us to prove who doesn't want the development, it should be up to Tesco to prove that 25,000 people do. Otherwise its just big business telling everyone its corporate plans, and riding roughshod over everyone to get it. Is that really fair? Is that the best way for a town to look after itself (or let a big company do it on its behalf, in pursuit of its next £2 billion profit)?
Reply ID 49680
quote:I'm sorry, you can't say that, it's just simply wrong. How many people exactly went? Plus; Just because people went didnt mean they were against the development. Even a poll wouldnt help as you wouldnt get a response from everyone. The only way to prove your point is to get more than half the hertford population to sign up to your site. good luck.
Originally posted by HertfordResident
Judging by the number of people who went to see the last proposal at the corn exchange, the vast majority were against the proposal. As a straw poll this would at least seem indicative of the feeling of the people of Hertford. Without an actual town referendum it would be difficult to judge any other way. It shouldn't be up to us to prove who doesn't want the development, it should be up to Tesco to prove that 25,000 people do. Otherwise its just big business telling everyone its corporate plans, and riding roughshod over everyone to get it. Is that really fair? Is that the best way for a town to look after itself (or let a big company do it on its behalf, in pursuit of its next £2 billion profit)?
Reply ID 49697
Well we asked each person who came out of the exhibition how they felt. And the vast majority were against it. Wouldn't it be more fair that the people proposing the development proved that over half of the people in Hertford were actually in favour, rather than the opposition having to justify their position in defending themselves?
Reply ID 49699
quote:It doesn't really work that way. Tesco will operate strictly within current planning regs, regardless of local opinion. We are deemed to have approved those regulations by virtue of having voted for the officials who made them. Any challenge to Tesco's plans will have to be made within the established criteria. Consultation works well for Tesco, as it gives the impression that public opinion will make a difference and distracts attention from finding detailed grounds for refusal.
Originally posted by HertfordResident
Well we asked each person who came out of the exhibition how they felt. And the vast majority were against it. Wouldn't it be more fair that the people proposing the development proved that over half of the people in Hertford were actually in favour, rather than the opposition having to justify their position in defending themselves?
Reply ID 49703
Found an individually addressed letter from Tesco on my door mat this morning inviting me to go see the exhibition in the car park. I assume they got my name and address from my comments at the Corn Exchange exhibition.
Reply ID 49704
See..they do care
Reply ID 49708
quote:Of course the majority of people going to the exibition will be against it. The majority of people going to the exibition are going there because they are against it. Thats like doing a poll at the entrance to Tesco, asking people, "would you like better choice in your store"? Of course the majority will say yes. I admire your drive to make a stand, but I think you would benefit your cause no end if you removed the unquantifiable opinions being passed off as facts on your site. They only help to dilute the strong points. Having had a little inside knowledge, the best defence is usually a factual fought case on two or three key points. If I were you, I would come from three sides: 1. Potential breaches of previous permissions - Dates are key to this. 2. Congestion - The loss of the second exit point, plus, with the added commercial units and flats in Mead lane, the stress put upto the current road system may be unworkable. 3. Right Of Light - The houses backing onto the store have the law behind them. They must be able to receive current or near current natural light levels. Tesco need to prove that they would not reduce that light. A difficult task if the building is as high as they propose and the garden is West facing.
Originally posted by HertfordResident
Well we asked each person who came out of the exhibition how they felt. And the vast majority were against it. Wouldn't it be more fair that the people proposing the development proved that over half of the people in Hertford were actually in favour, rather than the opposition having to justify their position in defending themselves?
Reply ID 49736
Taken from http://www.planning-applications.co.uk/righttolight.htm Natural light is a commodity that can be bought, sold or even transferred between parties. Rights can be registered, granted by deed or simply acquired by having a minimum of 20 years enjoyment of light through a window or opening. Once a window has received over 20 years of unobstructed daylight, it automatically earns itself a Right of Light. Such rights are, for Land Registration purposes, overriding interests. They are valid whether or not they are registered on the title deeds to the property which claims the right. To complicate matters the law recognises that some loss of light (up to 50%)is acceptable and the fact that there is less light does not necessarily give a land owner a right to complain.
Reply ID 49795
Tesco exhibition was up and running in the carpark last night. Can I uerge everyone to go and see...probably the only time you will get to really appreciate the scale of what they are planning as the pictures released to the Mercury really do not do this justice. The building towers over Bluecoats - it is far higher which was not the impression I had taken from the PR activity up to know, the area of open space it devours is extensive and the building looks just like a large warehouse....which I suppose it is. No attempt at all to make it fit in with or reflect the character of the area or the town The Tesco man was heard to say "I know about buildings and this fits in perfectly with the loacl area...." Sad to think that a seemingly intelligent person can still be trotting out the party line when evidence to the contray is laid out in front of him. I suppose he is happy so long as the boss gives him a pat on the head. Please go and look at this and give your comment - the scale of this is just totally out of proportion to anything required in a town the size & character of Hertford.
Reply ID 49797
OMG it's massive - six storeys!!!! It looks like something out of central London.
Reply ID 49800
They are 'avin a larf [:(!] And another small point - a quirky Hertford landmark would disappear if I interpret the design correctly. No palm tree.
Reply ID 49801
quote:It'll make it easier to give directions to Hertford though;- "It's the little suburb next to Tesco".[:D]
Originally posted by Steve
OMG it's massive - six storeys!!!! It look like something out of central London.
Reply ID 49802
Tesco are missing the point with our Hertford store. The reason I like to shop in it at the moment is cos its SMALL !!! I hate with a vengence the Brookfield Farm & Hatfield stores.. too big and I just walk out I cannot make my decisions. Hertford I can get in and out of relatively easily. If you are reading this Mr Tesco or his/her minions.. I would stop using you.. I don't like the large stores, they take more of my precious time up parking, unparking and going round.. Your store has always been successful because its small .. you haven't done your homework very well
Reply ID 49803
quote:I agree entirely, but then Tesco isn't after our food spend. What they are hoping for is to divert the money we spend on flat-screen TVs, toasters, DVDs, kids jeans, car mats, kitchen bins, full english breakfast with mug of tea, cutlery, football, de-icer, cuddly toy......... in fact, everything we currently shop for in Hertford town center or anywhere else.
Originally posted by Drama Queen
Tesco are missing the point with our Hertford store. The reason I like to shop in it at the moment is cos its SMALL !!! I hate with a vengence the Brookfield Farm & Hatfield stores.. too big and I just walk out I cannot make my decisions. Hertford I can get in and out of relatively easily. If you are reading this Mr Tesco or his/her minions.. I would stop using you.. I don't like the large stores, they take more of my precious time up parking, unparking and going round.. Your store has always been successful because its small .. you haven't done your homework very well
Reply ID 49805
Well - I have been to the exhibition (featuring many pictures of the smiling staff of the current operation) and come away with my little leaflet. From the scale model (which was still undergoing last minute tweaks) I would estimate that it would be at least a third as tall again as The Rotunda and Yeoman Court on the opposite side of the road. It will be stocking clothing and electrical 'but not on the same scale as a tesco Extra format store'. Got to say the PR people are earning their money - they were VERY good. An old dear from Chauncy Court came in very worried and she was eating out of the palm of the PR man's hand within 10 minutes. The handout leaflet questionnaire is worded as follows: 1) Are you in favour of the redevelopment of this site to create a comprehensive mixed-use scheme? Choose from Yes/No/Undecided 2) Do you have any comments on our proposals? I hope its not a case of apathy rules - I was surprised that there were not more people there.
Reply ID 49806
quote:Has it grown since the old sketches then?
Originally posted by Steve
OMG it's massive - six storeys!!!! It looks like something out of central London.
Reply ID 49808
We will have to get down there tomorrow. The Man of The House will enjoy winding up the grinning PR people. I knew it would be big, and I guessed everyone would be shocked, but if it turns out to be even bigger than the buildings opposite then it will be totally out of scale. I'm sure more people will go on a Saturday. I went into the Brookfield Farm Tesco...once. By the time I had battled through the mobile phones, microwaves and CDs I finally found a food section. Lots of us like the small shops, as has been said on here earlier. We don't want a choice of 50 types of washing powder. All this rubbish about community etc etc, it's profit and nothing else. I'm looking forward to our visit already, bring it on!
Reply ID 49812
Well. I just got back and thought the plans were ok. There is some real innovative ideas, like an internal loading bay. The model scale isn't accurate. They totally overstated the length of the gardens backing onto the site, but it looks nice! They've staggered the parking, so the right of light issue is gone. In fact, I quite like it except for two points, one big, one small. Biggy - They have only allowed for a queue of 5-6 cars entering the store from the single designated slip lane. Small - Moving the pedestrian crossing up nearer Hertford East whilst the entrance is moved nearer Ware Road. Everyone will cross before the crossing. I gave them quite a grilling on the traffic. The Extra lane out onto Ware Road will obviously help, but they are also looking to alter the phasing to work in conjuction with the ones on the Bluecoat roundabout. Something Tesco say they have been asking for for a while, but the council have yet to address. The Tesco representatives were taking the usual abuse. People who think they speak for everyone saying "No one wants it" but come up with no real point of objection other than to point out Tesco are trying to take over the world blar blar blar. All in all, Its a very well designed, well throught out.... But just feels too overpowering! It would be an excellent design for a inner city store, but not a market town. That said, it is being proposed on a site in the middle of other high buildings...that should never have been built.
Reply ID 49814
quote:Not an excuse and the reason Stevenage looks as it does. Each new building is in keeping with the s**t that is already there. It's like not correcting a curable genetic defect, long after the cause is known. Stag house was ridiculously out of scale. Empty for years after it was completed, the council who gave permission for it eventually moved into it, there being no other tenant. It probably wouldn't be there, if the precedent of the Tesco store hadn't been built. [:I]
Originally posted by Dude
That said, it is being proposed on a site in the middle of other high buildings...that should never have been built.
Reply ID 49816
quote:I would love to have been in the planning commitee 100 years ago when Christchurch proposed the 3 storey buildings in Bluecoats... Herford local - "Ye can build that. Get off our land!" Planner - "We believe ye tall huts are in keeping with ye lovely town! And we'll build ye a new turnip patch too!" Coucillor - "Sold!" Jokes aside, I agree with something you posted earlier. We could do with pulling down a great deal on the A414 stretch. And the Tesco idea is simply too bloated.
Originally posted by shuntquote:Not an excuse and the reason Stevenage looks as it does. Each new building is in keeping with the s**t that is already there. It's like not correcting a curable genetic defect, long after the cause is known. Stag house was ridiculously out of scale. Empty for years after it was completed, the council who gave permission for it eventually moved into it, there being no other tenant. It probably would be there, if the precedent of the Tesco store hadn't been built. [:I]
Originally posted by Dude
That said, it is being proposed on a site in the middle of other high buildings...that should never have been built.
Reply ID 49817
I asked how much it was going to cost. No-one could tell me. I asked where the "temporary store" was going to be. No-one could tell me. I put it to them that it was merely a reaction to Sainsburys and they were just posturing. Although they replied with lots of bluster, they didn't actually deny it.
Reply ID 49819
quote:I noticed they sent only one senior planner. Always a good sign that its posturing.....
Originally posted by Steve
I asked how much it was going to cost. No-one could tell me. I asked where the "temporary store" was going to be. No-one could tell me. I put it to them that it was merely a reaction to Sainsburys and they were just posturing. Although they replied with lots of bluster, they didn't actually deny it.
Reply ID 49823
quote:I asked what was the guide price for the 'affordable housing' and was told 'it was in line with local government requirements' or words to that effect. Like you Steve, I received no definite answers, so in all, it was a well staged display of flim-flam I fear that the worsening weather this afternoon might have done Tesco a favour too by keeping people away.
Originally posted by Steve
I asked how much it was going to cost. No-one could tell me. I asked where the "temporary store" was going to be. No-one could tell me. I put it to them that it was merely a reaction to Sainsburys and they were just posturing. Although they replied with lots of bluster, they didn't actually deny it.
Reply ID 49826
[img]../images/forum/tesco_new3.jpg[/img]
Reply ID 49827
I was there in the rain to make my feelings known, along with at least 25 others! It might be interesting if someone took an unbaised poll to judge numbers of for and against - just to see if it comes in line with the numbers Tesco will put out following this PR exercise. How many of the comments cards will they take notice of - maybe just those in favour?! Didn't actually find anyone today in the 20 minutes I was there that was in favour - so it will be very interesting to hear the next results [}:)]
Reply ID 49830
I reckon Herts County Council will suggest refusal of this proposal (which is all it is) as the roads (London Road, Ware Road, Mill Road, Railway street, South Street, Fore Street, A414) will not cope with the traffic flow and congestion. We should all be aware that this 'public consultation' was provided by a firm of architects who make a lot of money. It won't happen.
Reply ID 49833
Let's hope you are right James007!
Reply ID 49835
quote:I agree, although I wouldn't be surprised to see this exact same store appear in a more suitable town at some stage in the future.
Originally posted by James007
We should all be aware that this 'public consultation' was provided by a firm of architects who make a lot of money. It won't happen.
Reply ID 49836
My 9 year old naughtily peered inside the slit in the box to look at the cards already posted and triumphantly announced to all present that "They've all been ticked no!" I notice tonight that the whole thing has been dimantled and taken away. Have they given up already or are they worried their plans might just get blown away in a storm?
Reply ID 49837
Hertford/Ware Police Station moving next month to Hale Road. Police Station sold to Zog. Tesco exhibition. Hmm, the timing is too correct IMHO. I bet my 10 quid that the current Police Station in Ware Road might be a place for Tesco's new store.
Reply ID 49851
I went down and had a look at the consultation - a 'little' model and all the drawings. What struck me was how thick Tesco seem to think we all are; they put two suited young men on the stand who couldn't answer any of the questions I asked. I've just emailed Tesco HQ to tell them that I will never enter one of their stores ever again. Reason: Bullish tactics, uncaring, unaware, unrealistic and totally ignorant treatment of the general public. Every little helps.
Reply ID 49852
We went down and it was very busy. The questionnaires had all but run out by midday, and I doubt another box would be forthcoming. We quizzed the traffic man, and he spoke a lot about other projects in London, which I'm sure would be interesting if we lived in London. The proposed plan for two lanes turning right from Mill Lane will make it a major junction, and only feed the traffic away to the next jam at the roundabout. We spent a long time asking about the relative size in relation to the houses around - thinking about the house we nearly bought 11 years ago in Villiers Street with the garden backing onto the car park. Lots of chat about green areas, staggered car parking etc. Lots of answers given were that matters were "still under discussion" so nothing firm. People there was saying it was too big for that corner. It looks a smart store and Tesco planners have tried to incorporate light and modern details. It is just inappropriate for the "edge of town" plot they have. Government thinking is that urban retailers must use their plot imaginatively to get the most from it, and that means building upwards. The footprint for the Tesco plot will be the largest area in Hertford for one building. There will an increase in traffic volumes, noise and pollution, with aggravation and inconvenience for pedestrians and residents. But Tesco don't care about that. Once it's built it's built. We felt they were rather bored by us all and not at all interested.
Reply ID 49857
quote:James, have you got a crystle ball(s) !!!
Originally posted by James007
Hertford/Ware Police Station moving next month to Hale Road. Police Station sold to Zog. Tesco exhibition. Hmm, the timing is too correct IMHO. I bet my 10 quid that the current Police Station in Ware Road might be a place for Tesco's new store.
Reply ID 50183
Tesco will do whatever the want, they are above the law. Profit is their only concern.
Reply ID 50202
quote:I bet Elvis told you that! [;)]
Originally posted by Dillinquent
Tesco will do whatever the want, they are above the law. Profit is their only concern.
Reply ID 50210
quote:Having poo-pooed everyone's personal experiences of Tesco as delusional fantasy, it would be helpful if you could explain what leads you to think that. Though largely circumstancial, for the evidence of so many peoples first-hand experiences and observations have been dismissed as poppycock, you presumably have overwhelming evidence to the contrary in every individual case, or a firm philosophical theory that will discredit the many witnesses as witch-hunters. Though I am aware that it is easy to spout rumour as fact, it has to be asked how a customer service industry, which does not publicly take a religious or political stance, could obtain such a poor reputation, completely without grounds. In the case of Elvis, one can assume he didn't fake his own death, because it is unlikely that he would choose to be remembered as having died on the pan. Hence very few people believe him still to be alive. The opinions of Tesco do not suffer from that low probabilty of being likely and are much more widely held as a result.
Originally posted by Dudequote:I bet Elvis told you that! [;)]
Originally posted by Dillinquent
Tesco will do whatever the want, they are above the law. Profit is their only concern.
Reply ID 50213
quote:Not necessarily above the law, but have far deeper legal fees pockets than district councils, so will in the end, maybe with a few concessions get what they want.
Originally posted by Dillinquent
Tesco will do whatever the want, they are above the law. Profit is their only concern.
Reply ID 50234
Tesco chainstore massacre
quote:This from Friends of The Earth:- [url]http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/briefings/calling_the_shots.pdf[/url] Fight the power! :-[url]http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/briefings/calling_the_shots.pdf[/url][/url] Everyone knows that Elvis faked his own death on the bog precisely because he knew that no one would believe that anyone would fake such an ignominious end... Don't pooh pooh the king!
Originally posted by shuntquote:Having poo-pooed everyone's personal experiences of Tesco as delusional fantasy, it would be helpful if you could explain what leads you to think that. Though largely circumstancial, for the evidence of so many peoples first-hand experiences and observations have been dismissed as poppycock, you presumably have overwhelming evidence to the contrary in every individual case, or a firm philosophical theory that will discredit the many witnesses as witch-hunters. Though I am aware that it is easy to spout rumour as fact, it has to be asked how a customer service industry, which does not publicly take a religious or political stance, could obtain such a poor reputation, completely without grounds. In the case of Elvis, one can assume he didn't fake his own death, because it is unlikely that he would choose to be remembered as having died on the pan. Hence very few people believe him still to be alive. The opinions of Tesco do not suffer from that low probabilty of being likely and are much more widely held as a result.
Originally posted by Dudequote:I bet Elvis told you that! [;)]
Originally posted by Dillinquent
Tesco will do whatever the want, they are above the law. Profit is their only concern.
Reply ID 50236
quote:I'd agree with 50% of that report. Its called commerce.
Originally posted by Dillinquent
Tesco chainstore massacrequote:This from Friends of The Earth:- [url]http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/briefings/calling_the_shots.pdf[/url] Fight the power! :-[url]http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/briefings/calling_the_shots.pdf[/url][/url] Everyone knows that Elvis faked his own death on the bog precisely because he knew that no one would believe that anyone would fake such an ignominious end... Don't pooh pooh the king!
Originally posted by shuntquote:Having poo-pooed everyone's personal experiences of Tesco as delusional fantasy, it would be helpful if you could explain what leads you to think that. Though largely circumstancial, for the evidence of so many peoples first-hand experiences and observations have been dismissed as poppycock, you presumably have overwhelming evidence to the contrary in every individual case, or a firm philosophical theory that will discredit the many witnesses as witch-hunters. Though I am aware that it is easy to spout rumour as fact, it has to be asked how a customer service industry, which does not publicly take a religious or political stance, could obtain such a poor reputation, completely without grounds. In the case of Elvis, one can assume he didn't fake his own death, because it is unlikely that he would choose to be remembered as having died on the pan. Hence very few people believe him still to be alive. The opinions of Tesco do not suffer from that low probabilty of being likely and are much more widely held as a result.
Originally posted by Dudequote:I bet Elvis told you that! [;)]
Originally posted by Dillinquent
Tesco will do whatever the want, they are above the law. Profit is their only concern.
Reply ID 50237
quote:If it seems that I poo pooed everyones (not true) “experiences” (not true in many cases) of Tesco as delusional fantasy (two comments, stop twisting it), then its because a lot of people are trying to off load gossip, hearsay or basic hatred as some form of fact. Tesco bashing seems to be a popular pastime yet strangely, when you ask those people to back up those accusations they fall quiet. You’ve obviously got a bee in your bonnet about them. You yourself have made a few negative comments, without any sniff of evidence. Today’s comment from Dillinquent stated that “Tesco were above the law!” So why did you take offence about me responding to someone else’s comment that Tesco were above the law with “Did Elvis tell you that?” Isn’t it obvious I was pointing out two subjects which have no basis of truth? Imagine if I’d said Farrow and Farrow were above the law. Now imagine if you asked me to back up my statement and I said, I know someone who knows someone, or I said “they just are!” That wouldn’t be acceptable. Why is it any different for Tesco? If half the things said about Tesco were instead said about (for arguments sake) The Hillside, then admin would have stepped in long ago and accused the comments as being inflammatory, or at the very least, asked the accuser to back it up with some evidence. It doesn’t seem to apply when it’s a larger business. Sure Tesco does things wrong. In fact, it’s a lot harder for the likes of Tesco to do anything wrong than it is for a small business, due to the nature of the press it picks up. If Tesco sneeze its all over the front page. I happen to have a great depth of inside knowledge on the inner workings of Tesco. Having worked in most major departments up to director level, I was fortunate to get to know a lot about how a company operate, and how it still does, through contacts I speak to on a daily basis. I’m not going to apologise for being in a far more knowledgeable position that some people who are spewing no more than malicious gossip. It seems that Tesco has become a focal point for many people to pile their blame into for the state of the Britain. If it’s not anti social behaviour in car parks, it’s the sale of booze, or the downtrodden poor farmers, or the state of British high streets. The fact is no chain is responsible for any of this. We are. We (as a society) have created the idea of this retail monster that is sucking everything in. Then we don’t blame ourselves for using them. Our custom the only thing growing them. There is no “secret agenda” at the likes of Tesco. Their strategy is published throughout the business. Apart from standard areas of any business that need sections of confidentiality, they are about as transparent as they come. What they do they simply do better than their competitors. But some people simply fail to grasp the reality of it and believe in a sinister motives. Tesco aren’t half a clever as people think. I’ll give you an example of how crazy the truth is compared to what people believe. Do the know the shallow shopping trolley. Its at all supermarkets You know the one? The high one, often with a clip board? When this got rolled out it was a revolution in shopping. It had a whole 30 minute BBC programme about it. “Designed to make you shop more.” “They are going to kill off the hand basket.” “Stops people lowering their eyes away from the shelves.” “Evil Tesco blar blar blar. The usual. There were articles in the paper, Tesco’s new weapon. Designed by the marketing boffs who have worked out how to make us feel at ease to shop more! Its even mentioned in the "researched" anti Tesco books. Nothing could be further from the truth. How do I know this? Because I designed it. Why? Because as 24 year old living in Bluecoats, I used to feel I was going to loose an arm trying to lug a 12 can box of Holsten Pils around the store in a blasket, then in a carrier bag back to Bluecoats. Being responsible for trolleys at the time, I had the manufacturer create a remodelled disabled trolley to enable it to be used by a standing adult and carry up to 24 beers! I nicknamed it “The lazy mans basket”. The manufacturer made three, so I put them into the Hertford store. Problem was, they proved so popular, I could never get to use one. So I put 10 more in. Still couldn’t get one. So I put 40 into S****horpe store (a good mate was the manager) and he phoned me up a couple of days later and said you better help out. Everyone wanted one. The accountants didn’t like it. Why? A smaller shopping trolley encourages smaller shops. The reality. The public asked for it, so now it makes up 40% of the trolleys in the country. Another evil move by Tesco! With that, I think I’ll shut up about Tesco. It seems, too many people want their figure of hate, without rhyme nor reason. Who am I to shatter their illusion!
Originally posted by shunt Having poo-pooed everyone's personal experiences of Tesco as delusional fantasy, it would be helpful if you could explain what leads you to think that. Though largely circumstancial, for the evidence of so many peoples first-hand experiences and observations have been dismissed as poppycock, you presumably have overwhelming evidence to the contrary in every individual case, or a firm philosophical theory that will discredit the many witnesses as witch-hunters. Though I am aware that it is easy to spout rumour as fact, it has to be asked how a customer service industry, which does not publicly take a religious or political stance, could obtain such a poor reputation, completely without grounds. In the case of Elvis, one can assume he didn't fake his own death, because it is unlikely that he would choose to be remembered as having died on the pan. Hence very few people believe him still to be alive. The opinions of Tesco do not suffer from that low probabilty of being likely and are much more widely held as a result.
Reply ID 50239
But the fact remains that the majority of local people don't want a five storey carbuncle built on the Tesco site, clogging the roads, forcing local businesses out of business, overlooking their gardens, blocking their light and being a general eyesore, whoever builds it. This isn't about Tesco, its about large companies steamrollering our communities in their quest for ever grosser profits. And the fact remains that Tesco will build it regardless of local opinion, whether they get planning permission or not. Because they can.
Reply ID 50240
but the majority of hertford havent voted on this issue, so i can't see how thats a fact.
Reply ID 50241
With apologies for not including Dude's quote. I'm not sure that anyone suggests illegality by Tesco, more an agressive business model which is successful, but not an attractive attribute which generates public affection. Indeed, there are many who critisise Tesco, yet still use them. With Tesco's habit of displacing competition by pressing for over-sized developments, it is successful, but not attractive. The public perception is that Tesco is successful despite poor image and PR and too big to really care about that. They are very good at responding to a marketing opportunity, like your trolley. Do not be fooled by the claim that they reduce the total shop by comparing them to full sized trolleys. The purpose and advantage to Tesco is exactly as you designed them to be, as an alternative to a basket. There's nothing wrong with that as such, but to portray it as caring, sharing Tesco doing something lovely for it's customers is unrealistic. Where Tesco falls down most is in it's handling of individual complaint and co-existence and blending with the community outside it. I am aware of Tesco's internal culture, as I share my life with another former senior employee. Thankfully, I have eventually re-taught her the English language, rather than continually having to decypher Tescoisms and having to learn to speak in soundbites myself. Fabulous training for directorship in many ways, particularly in background admin and systems, exiting Tesco does require some re-ajustment. Many, like yourself, find it unbelievable that the rest of the world do not share the Tesco mantra.
Reply ID 50267
quote:As Codek2 said, there hasn't been a vote, and I wouldn't be surprised to find the vast majority of the Hertford store's shoppers would welcome the larger store, precisely because it means they don't have to struggle down the A10 to go to Brookfield Farm. And let's put this in perspective. In the grand scheme of things, the store still isn't that big. It's what? 45,000 sq ft? The Asda in the town I used to live in was recently extended to become a 106,000 sq ft store. Granted, 60,000 people live in the town, and it is one of the best performing stores in the entire company. As for your 'claim' that it will force local businesses out, there seems to be a healthy amount of people who live in this town who want to cling on to the range (and it's not a large range) of independent stores that they wouldn't be 'forced out' as you put it. If any do go out of business, then it is plain and simply because they weren't good enough. It doesn't have to be on price; only people like me on a relatively small budget because of either just being at the start of their careers, or are in a poorly paid job, consider price before quality. I buy cheap, because I can't afford to spend £25 on the cheapest blender from the shop on Fore Street when I can buy one for £10 in the local Tesco. The same goes for a lot of other products. However, when it comes to those who live in the likes of Bengeo, who are paid comfortably, and can afford to choose where to shop based on service rather than price, then independents should flourish. Otherwise they are doing something badly wrong, and don't deserve to stay in business.
Originally posted by Dillinquent
But the fact remains that the majority of local people don't want a five storey carbuncle built on the Tesco site, clogging the roads, forcing local businesses out of business, overlooking their gardens, blocking their light and being a general eyesore, whoever builds it. This isn't about Tesco, its about large companies steamrollering our communities in their quest for ever grosser profits. And the fact remains that Tesco will build it regardless of local opinion, whether they get planning permission or not. Because they can.
Reply ID 50268
Can I just pour a small amount of cold water on this Tesco project, as it's all it needs. It won't go ahead IMHO as the road infrastructure cannot support it.
Reply ID 50269
quote:Have you seen the pictures!? This isn't just about a bigger supermarket to give greater choice to shoppers, it's about a huge building (or collection of joined buidings), six storeys high as its highest point, and massively out of scale and keeping with its surroundings.
And let's put this in perspective. In the grand scheme of things, the store still isn't that big. It's what? 45,000 sq ft? The Asda in the town I used to live in was recently extended to become a 106,000 sq ft store. Granted, 60,000 people live in the town, and it is one of the best performing stores in the entire company.
Reply ID 50272
quote:Yes, it is big. Too big? I don't know. Personally, I think it looks interesting. I think we need to see it in scale model form to be able to judge fairly exactly how big it is. As for the 'in keeping' argument. As with the Wetherspoons detractors; styles change. Considering the development further down the road, and Rotunda House across the road, I don't think it's that out of keeping.
Originally posted by Katequote:Have you seen the pictures!? This isn't just about a bigger supermarket to give greater choice to shoppers, it's about a huge building (or collection of joined buidings), six storeys high as its highest point, and massively out of scale and keeping with its surroundings.
And let's put this in perspective. In the grand scheme of things, the store still isn't that big. It's what? 45,000 sq ft? The Asda in the town I used to live in was recently extended to become a 106,000 sq ft store. Granted, 60,000 people live in the town, and it is one of the best performing stores in the entire company.
Reply ID 50273
This project, which is all it is at the moment is harming Tesco profits. Why? Because the 80 quid food budget that I give them a month is now going to the butchers and bakery at Sele Farm, Farrow and Farrow in the town, the market grocery stall and also the fish stall. i also travel out of town and go to shops such as Meadows in Hoddesdon and the deli in Ware. Three weeks in and the service is more personal, the quality is far better and the queue at the till is shorter. The products I have found within the shops of Hertford and surrounds have actually astounded me. And the experience of parting with money is better. And there is expert advice on cooking and alternative foods. And the shelf life of the products are days longer. I'd urge everyone to shop around, if you don't already.
Reply ID 50277
I can't help thinking that the wheels are falling off Tesco's PR machine. For the second time in print Mr Kissman has stated that 44% of shoppers visiting Tesco currently make associated trips into the town centre. Eh?. Now, mental arithmetic is not one of my strongest points but doesn't that mean over half (56% to be precise)will never venture further than the Tesco car park? This figure can only grow if Tesco branch out to include such things as dry cleaning, photo processing etc. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot! Does Tesco think we're all stupid?
Reply ID 50281
quote:Did you not go to the exhibition and see the scale model?
Originally posted by Brockman
I think we need to see it in scale model form to be able to judge fairly exactly how big it is.
quote:Yes, it is, but only in the right context, which currently it isn't.
Originally posted by Brockman
Personally, I think it looks interesting.
quote:IMHO these are most definitely not examples to be followed.
Originally posted by Brockman
Considering the development further down the road, and Rotunda House across the road, I don't think it's that out of keeping.
quote:The store is only a part of the plan. There are also 50 homes as well.
Originally posted by Brockman
And let's put this in perspective. In the grand scheme of things, the store still isn't that big. It's what? 45,000 sq ft?
Reply ID 50282
One thing worth bearing in mind is that just because property prices are high in Hertford it doesn't mean that people have wods of money left over each month and the phrase 'land rich, cash poor' is an old but applicable one in this town and many others. The independents aren't surviving just because people in Bengeo - or Hertford as a whole - have extra spare cash, they survive because the town is known for independent shops and a good place to get a different offering of product. Small traders in town know that they have to have a point of difference in order to survive, that is usually not 'cheap prices' across the board, it has more to do with carrying lines that the big boys won't carry, providing a more personal service than the big boys could ever do and providing advice that the employees of the big boys would be hard pressed to ever match. If someone feels they don't need a variety of service, then that's ok, but it shouldn't be discarded by the town without some thought (through both massive supermarket expansions and by individuals shopping in the independents once or twice a year only) because once it goes, in the present climate, it's unlikely to come back. How many times do you hear people say: 'it was worth paying a little extra'. [:)]
Reply ID 50335
quote:89% of people who voted in the Mercury's vote were opposed, I'd call that a majority.
Originally posted by codek2
but the majority of hertford havent voted on this issue, so i can't see how thats a fact.
Reply ID 50338
quote:A majority of what? The town population?
Originally posted by Dillinquentquote:89% of people who voted in the Mercury's vote were opposed, I'd call that a majority.
Originally posted by codek2
but the majority of hertford havent voted on this issue, so i can't see how thats a fact.
Reply ID 50340
quote:Exactly. 80% of 1000 is not the majority of the town. In fact it's barely 1/25th. The golden rule of media polls are that 10/10 of people opposed to something who see the poll will vote against. Only 1/10 who support it will vote.
Originally posted by Dudequote:A majority of what? The town population?
Originally posted by Dillinquentquote:89% of people who voted in the Mercury's vote were opposed, I'd call that a majority.
Originally posted by codek2
but the majority of hertford havent voted on this issue, so i can't see how thats a fact.
Reply ID 50341
quote:It's not though is it. All that says is that the people who saw the poll and actually decided to vote. those that arnt fussed either way probably didnt vote. Or maybe some hadnt seen the plans and decided to go and check them out. It's highly likely that if you took a straw poll of the same people in the street you'd get an utterly different result. I have my own feeling for what the real percentage would be, but what i think it is is no more based upon fact than any of the other random stats posted here out of context.
Originally posted by Dillinquentquote:89% of people who voted in the Mercury's vote were opposed, I'd call that a majority.
Originally posted by codek2
but the majority of hertford havent voted on this issue, so i can't see how thats a fact.
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