Topic ID 3094
Are Friday nights in Hertford now so bad that police have to deploy large numbers of officers and a walk-through metal detector at Hertford East Station?
Reply ID 44523
Not so much Friday nights but the type of people arriving to have feast on Hertford's rich pickings. Follow the Hertford East line down and look at where some of these people come from. Would go for a night out there?
Reply ID 44607
quote:That sounds like an effective proactive way of preventing knife/ gun crimes in the town. Do you have a better suggestion?
Originally posted by Steve
Are Friday nights in Hertford now so bad that police have to deploy large numbers of officers and a walk-through metal detector at Hertford East Station?
Reply ID 44674
I think it is a great idea to keep scrots out of Hertford and I hope they are arrested with any offensive weapons.
Reply ID 44679
Can we not just close HE at 8pm ?
Reply ID 44680
Erm, it's kind of used as transport by the public ..
Reply ID 44700
quote:Is this to reduce excessive ammounts of Jewellery ?
Originally posted by Steve
Are Friday nights in Hertford now so bad that police have to deploy large numbers of officers and a walk-through metal detector at Hertford East Station?
Reply ID 44705
Isn't this taking stop and search powers a little to far? Electronic searches may be relevent at the airport, or at the entrance to a nightclub, but at the entrance to a town, it's a severe infringment of civil liberty.
Reply ID 44708
As far as I remember Hertford has always had a police presence at the weekend?
Reply ID 44711
quote:I think there are two sides to this argument: yes it can be viewed as an infringement of a persons' civil liberty, but being knifed by someone could be viewed as an infringement to their right to safety. Furthermore, the role of the police is, and always has been,primarily, the prevention of crime. Surely it's better that some people are searched rather than one person be stabbed?
Originally posted by shunt
Isn't this taking stop and search powers a little to far? Electronic searches may be relevent at the airport, or at the entrance to a nightclub, but at the entrance to a town, it's a severe infringment of civil liberty.
Reply ID 44712
quote:Presence, yes. A search, electronically or otherwise, is something else. Is this a blanket search of everybody arriving at the station, or just "known faces"?
Originally posted by shaun
As far as I remember Hertford has always had a police presence at the weekend?
Reply ID 44713
quote:I think it was something to do with the fun fair being on that weekend - too many carnies is just asking for trouble.
Originally posted by shuntquote:Presence, yes. A search, electronically or otherwise, is something else. Is this a blanket search of everybody arriving at the station, or just "known faces"?
Originally posted by shaun
As far as I remember Hertford has always had a police presence at the weekend?
Reply ID 44715
They have done the metal detector thing at Stevenage Station on Friday/saturday nights. I think you are "invited" to participate, being middle aged I didn't get an invitation.
Reply ID 44717
quote:Unfortunately that's the problem. 40-something+ and in a suit = walk right in with shooter under your coat. Young, dreads, piercings and semi-detached jeans = thorough search, followed by feelings of victimisation and anti-establishmentism.
Originally posted by Andrew
They have done the metal detector thing at Stevenage Station on Friday/saturday nights. I think you are "invited" to participate, being middle aged I didn't get an invitation.
Reply ID 44719
quote:Yeah - cos most shootings are carried out by businessmen and not wannbe gangster rappers aren't they?
Originally posted by shuntquote:Unfortunately that's the problem. 40-something+ and in a suit = walk right in with shooter under your coat. Young, dreads, piercings and semi-detached jeans = thorough search, followed by feelings of victimisation and anti-establishmentism.
Originally posted by Andrew
They have done the metal detector thing at Stevenage Station on Friday/saturday nights. I think you are "invited" to participate, being middle aged I didn't get an invitation.
Reply ID 44721
Seems like they put all their eggs in one basket. There was a disturbance in the Golden Griffin on Friday night. When one of the bar staff called the police they said they were too busy to attend!
Reply ID 44729
quote:Having worked in an industry exposed to gun-culture, it's both, but the guys in suits are much more serious, organised and know it's expedient to look like City bankers. The main cocaine dealers and users in this town are between 40-55 and appear to be perfectly respectable and affluent businessmen. Civil rights create mutual respect in society. The more controlled and monitored a society feels, the less people feel personal responsibility and morally obliged. In other words, the system has to be fair to be respected. Yes, I'd be annoyed to be searched at a station for no reason, but more so if not searched because of an assumption that, being a white old git, I'm assumed to be a lower risk.
Originally posted by aubendquote:Yeah - cos most shootings are carried out by businessmen and not wannbe gangster rappers aren't they?
Originally posted by shuntquote:Unfortunately that's the problem. 40-something+ and in a suit = walk right in with shooter under your coat. Young, dreads, piercings and semi-detached jeans = thorough search, followed by feelings of victimisation and anti-establishmentism.
Originally posted by Andrew
They have done the metal detector thing at Stevenage Station on Friday/saturday nights. I think you are "invited" to participate, being middle aged I didn't get an invitation.
Reply ID 44732
quote:Come on Shunt - enouh of the P.C. stuff - the Met have set up Trident to target specifically Black on Black gun crime and on the front of this morning's Metro there was a story linked to the shooting of Rhys Jones about two gangs in Liverpool who have been responsible for 25 shootings recently. I don't see the police having an 'Operation Pinstripe' to target the City boys' guns! They are far more more likely to have a Blackberry than a Beretta...
Originally posted by shuntquote:Having worked in an industry exposed to gun-culture, it's both, but the guys in suits are much more serious, organised and know it's expedient to look like City bankers. The main cocaine dealers and users in this town are between 40-55 and appear to be perfectly respectable and affluent businessmen. Civil rights create mutual respect in society. The more controlled and monitored a society feels, the less people feel personal responsibility and morally obliged. In other words, the system has to be fair to be respected. Yes, I'd be annoyed to be searched at a station for no reason, but more so if not searched because of an assumption that, being a white old git, I'm assumed to be a lower risk.
Originally posted by aubendquote:Yeah - cos most shootings are carried out by businessmen and not wannbe gangster rappers aren't they?
Originally posted by shuntquote:Unfortunately that's the problem. 40-something+ and in a suit = walk right in with shooter under your coat. Young, dreads, piercings and semi-detached jeans = thorough search, followed by feelings of victimisation and anti-establishmentism.
Originally posted by Andrew
They have done the metal detector thing at Stevenage Station on Friday/saturday nights. I think you are "invited" to participate, being middle aged I didn't get an invitation.
Reply ID 44734
At the end of the day, there are a load of people coming into Hertford East from Hackney & north London on a Friday night with the intention of robbing people in Hertford. The police have a good idea who they are and the type of people they are.
Reply ID 44735
quote:Precisely. Sub-cultures created by feelings of separation and thus lack of responsibility to the community as a whole. I'm not on a PC platform, but on a long-term crime prevention one. Treating the symptom is the American model. My personal view is that it's an unsuccessful one.
Originally posted by aubendquote:Come on Shunt - enouh of the P.C. stuff - the Met have set up Trident to target specifically Black on Black gun crime and on the front of this morning's Metro there was a story linked to the shooting of Rhys Jones about two gangs in Liverpool who have been responsible for 25 shootings recently. I don't see the police having an 'Operation Pinstripe' to target the City boys' guns! They are far more more likely to have a Blackberry than a Beretta...
Originally posted by shuntquote:Having worked in an industry exposed to gun-culture, it's both, but the guys in suits are much more serious, organised and know it's expedient to look like City bankers. The main cocaine dealers and users in this town are between 40-55 and appear to be perfectly respectable and affluent businessmen. Civil rights create mutual respect in society. The more controlled and monitored a society feels, the less people feel personal responsibility and morally obliged. In other words, the system has to be fair to be respected. Yes, I'd be annoyed to be searched at a station for no reason, but more so if not searched because of an assumption that, being a white old git, I'm assumed to be a lower risk.
Originally posted by aubendquote:Yeah - cos most shootings are carried out by businessmen and not wannbe gangster rappers aren't they?
Originally posted by shuntquote:Unfortunately that's the problem. 40-something+ and in a suit = walk right in with shooter under your coat. Young, dreads, piercings and semi-detached jeans = thorough search, followed by feelings of victimisation and anti-establishmentism.
Originally posted by Andrew
They have done the metal detector thing at Stevenage Station on Friday/saturday nights. I think you are "invited" to participate, being middle aged I didn't get an invitation.
Reply ID 44736
Surely this is visible crime prevention?
Reply ID 44737
quote:......as is the Cuban version of placing a known government agent on every block to monitor residents, but it's not a way to create a population with respect for the society they live in. Policing by consent is the core of our system. If we start to "target", that feeling is lost to those who are targetted, whether they are identified by age, skin colour, or any other means.
Originally posted by JohnSmith
Surely this is visible crime prevention?
Reply ID 44740
quote:It is, but once word gets round they will come into Herford by Bus & Taxi.
Originally posted by JohnSmith
Surely this is visible crime prevention?
Reply ID 44741
So what is the solution? Welcome them with open arms....and wallets?
Reply ID 44744
quote:Welcome who? My question was whether those invited to use the arch were known criminals or a type was being assumed to be likely to be criminal. Imagine if that type was white, middle-aged, well dressed males. White, middle-aged males might start to feel some anymosity towards the rest of society if they were continually assumed to be criminal for no other reason than their age and appearance. They may even start to lose respect for the law and see ignoring it as justified, inventing their own sub-culture. The arch is fine if it is for known offenders, or everybody, or a random sample.
Originally posted by JohnSmith
So what is the solution? Welcome them with open arms....and wallets?
Reply ID 44746
Unfortunately we have to live in the real world where a number of people who seem to have a certain look have decided that their way of earning a living is outside the realms of the law of the land. It is more a case of them losing respect for other people and the law bringing them to task. Please don't insult our intelligence by making these people out to be some sort of misunderstood generation.
Reply ID 44749
quote:I think the problem is that we are no longer allowed to stereotype for fear of offending certain groups or minorities. However, stereotypes surely exist for the very reason that they contain truth. E.g. Common sense tells us that people wearing baseball caps / tracksuits / gold jewellery are perceived as being more likely to carry a weapon or commit an offence because they often aspire to the gangster lifestyle where it is seen as being cool to rob and stab/shoot people. Middle aged men in suits have better things to worry about like paying the mortgage and paying school fees etc.
Originally posted by JohnSmith
Unfortunately we have to live in the real world where a number of people who seem to have a certain look have decided that their way of earning a living is outside the realms of the law of the land. It is more a case of them losing respect for other people and the law bringing them to task. Please don't insult our intelligence by making these people out to be some sort of misunderstood generation.
Reply ID 44755
quote:Oh come on John, you must see the wider social implications of designing law enforcement policy to create longer term problems by a reactionary response. I used to get pulled up for spot checks every time I went out on my bike when I was 17, now not at all. The only thing that has changed is my age, but I still remember thinking, "Can't I just complete one journey without being treated like a criminal?!!!". I didn't feel misunderstood, but I certainly felt a lack of respect from my employees (the police).
Originally posted by JohnSmith
Unfortunately we have to live in the real world where a number of people who seem to have a certain look have decided that their way of earning a living is outside the realms of the law of the land. It is more a case of them losing respect for other people and the law bringing them to task. Please don't insult our intelligence by making these people out to be some sort of misunderstood generation.
Reply ID 44756
quote:Now then now then - thats not very fair on Jimmy Saville is it? [:D]
Originally posted by aubend Common sense tells us that people wearing baseball caps / tracksuits / gold jewellery are perceived as being more likely to carry a weapon or commit an offence because they often aspire to the gangster lifestyle
Reply ID 44757
quote:Just blown Chablis all over my laptop.[:D]
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:Now then now then - thats not very fair on Jimmy Saville is it? [:D]
Originally posted by aubend Common sense tells us that people wearing baseball caps / tracksuits / gold jewellery are perceived as being more likely to carry a weapon or commit an offence because they often aspire to the gangster lifestyle
Reply ID 44758
shunt, from what I have seen, the police don't do anything these days unless they absolutly have to. There has been a considerable amount of crime along this line recently. I personally know of 3 people who have been robbed at knifepoint on trains or close to Hertford East station. I can't believe that these are 3 isolated incidents. I know it's not best to assume BUT I assume that the police are reacting to this and I assume that they are targetting people that fit a particular description. The 3 people that I know were robbed by people that had similar appearance and were of a similar age. The police are there doing a job. They aren't there trying to openly discriminate against people, they are there trying to prevent law abiding citizens from being robbed. If there is a group of people that feels that they are being targetted for no apparent reason, it is their peers that they needed to be looking at and not other law abiding citizens or the police.
Reply ID 44760
quote:Then that would be alright. If the police are responding to a description of known offenders, still at large, that's entirely different. I refer you to my comments earlier that those who are not "law abiding citizens" often have an entirely respectable public image and apparently legal means of income. Hence to assume a propensity to criminality or innocence by visual means is always unsafe. What is most important is that the police maintain an impartial image and the impression of a service which is equally available to all.
Originally posted by JohnSmith
shunt, from what I have seen, the police don't do anything these days unless they absolutly have to. There has been a considerable amount of crime along this line recently. I personally know of 3 people who have been robbed at knifepoint on trains or close to Hertford East station. I can't believe that these are 3 isolated incidents. I know it's not best to assume BUT I assume that the police are reacting to this and I assume that they are targetting people that fit a particular description. The 3 people that I know were robbed by people that had similar appearance and were of a similar age. The police are there doing a job. They aren't there trying to openly discriminate against people, they are there trying to prevent law abiding citizens from being robbed. If there is a group of people that feels that they are being targetted for no apparent reason, it is their peers that they needed to be looking at and not other law abiding citizens or the police.
Reply ID 44761
quote:Who's Chablis? [:0]
Originally posted by shunt
Just blown Chablis all over my laptop.[:D]
Reply ID 44763
quote:A pretentious French number with a good fruity body and a spectacular finish.
Originally posted by aubendquote:Who's Chablis? [:0]
Originally posted by shunt
Just blown Chablis all over my laptop.[:D]
Reply ID 44764
quote:And more to the point, what's she doing on your lap top![:p]
Originally posted by shuntquote:A pretentious French number with a good fruity body and a spectacular finish.
Originally posted by aubendquote:Who's Chablis? [:0]
Originally posted by shunt
Just blown Chablis all over my laptop.[:D]
Reply ID 44767
Chilling...
Reply ID 44773
John, I totally agree with your post regarding the police and your quote: "they are there trying to prevent law abiding citizens from being robbed." However, quote: "Seems like they put all their eggs in one basket. There was a disturbance in the Golden Griffin on Friday night. When one of the bar staff called the police they said they were too busy to attend!" However, I am confused. A polite question for you John Smith. With all your respect for the Police, the problems that they face and your interest with policing in general, why set up a website, take photos of cars and post these pictures of where they have been parked? Is that your hobby? Your profile on here shows this website: http://home2.btconnect.com/har130/ Judging by the pictures that you have taken, you live within Sele Farm. PS - There is a photo on your website of a taxi parked on double yellow lines in St Andrew Street. http://home2.btconnect.com/har130/ Did you, or whoever took the photo whilst driving, hit the BMW coming towards you or just maim the taxi driver and all the people walking into the OXT? I doubt you would be that silly. Left hand drive? [:D]
Reply ID 44777
What is wrong with him doing that? I'm all for naming and shaming. Regarding policing, has anyone ever seen the program Street Crime UK which is shown on Bravo? I have to laugh. Almost every person that is arrested on there is a yobbish chav, makes my feel all funny inside (in a good way) when they get locked up, hehehe, chav scum! :)
Reply ID 44780
James, I was explaining why the police were doing what they were doing on Friday night. It is just a shame that they focussed all of their attention on the town centre that night. Perhaps poor management by the senior officers. You seem to be a bit overexcited about the photos of illegally parked cars. I haven't snapped you by any chance have I?
Reply ID 44781
quote:You're confused James! Am I the only one totally confused by this reply? Where exactly is the dichotomy between John's statement & his separate highlighting quite reasonably IMHO) of plonkers parking where they want.....? [?]
Originally posted by James007
.................................... ......However, I am confused. A polite question for you John Smith. With all your respect for the Police, the problems that they face and your interest with policing in general, why set up a website, take photos of cars and post these pictures of where they have been parked? Is that your hobby? .................. [:D]
Reply ID 44783
quote:Nope, me too
Originally posted by Capitalist piglet
Am I the only one totally confused by this reply? Where exactly is the dichotomy between John's statement & his separate highlighting quite reasonably IMHO) of plonkers parking where they want.....? [?]