Topic ID 3034
i may have missed comments on this site about the proposed enhancement to the bike path in Thornton St folly island so forgive me. i think this is the first step in moving Sainsbury in. for those who are unaware, the council want to move the flower bed between Thornton street and hartham common and put a 2m bike path in with a bollard in the middle and also add steps into this walk way. i think this is the wrong option here and they should make cyclist dismount their bikes and walk down steps and not remove the flower bed. Thoughts?
Reply ID 43686
quote:Forcing cyclists to carry their bikes up and down steps on a cycle path doesn't really make sense - if you're going to do that you might as well not bother calling it a cycle path. A bit of footpath widening wouldn't go amiss there, although it would be a shame to lose the flower bed.
Originally posted by teddylad
i think this is the wrong option here and they should make cyclist dismount their bikes and walk down steps and not remove the flower bed. Thoughts?
Reply ID 43689
I'm saying remove the cycle path altogether and keep it as a dead-end road. Should the council wish a cycle path go through folly island the council should direct the path via the town centre, this would benefit the shops in town by creating more passing trade.......
Reply ID 43690
The plans state that the planter will be narrowed and the trees are to remain. Not sure that with the widening they are are expecting cyclists to dismount, it should give room to pedestrians and cyclists. It will not be the current steep ramp so easier access for disabled and pushchairs. Plus steps for those that are happy to trot up them. Hopefully it has nothing to do with Sainsbury's it is claimed to be a project between Hertfordshire Highways and Sustrans (charity promoting Sustainable Transport) for cycle network 61?? Although on the present footpath, despite signs, quite often cyclists don't and nearly mow down anyone in their way.
Reply ID 43691
This is part of Route 61 (only 5 to go and could have been Route 66) and has been discussed on the Hertford Transport Forum for as many years as I can remember. It leads cyclists through the town and on to Castle Street and the approach to Evron Crossing and the perils of the A414 which have yet to be adressed. The Thornton Street bridge has always been a hazard to both able bodied and otherwise. I think I am one of many who has slid down the slope on ice and leaves; so a make over is long overdue. As Tigger says the main problem is with cyclists who ignore the signs along the towpath. Some dismount, some cycle slowly - fine but there are still many who are old enough to know better who hurtle along at a rapid rate insensitive to other road users or pedestrians as we like to call them. I know of two residents who have been sideswiped into the river. I hope that better signage directing cyclists on to route 61 will be incorporated into the scheme to help this situation. One of my friends wished for a third eye in his rear so that he could see on-coming cyclists and elbow them into the river. A useful technological advance in many situations.
Reply ID 43718
The biggest problem with cycling is that if you cycle on Paths you are expected to give way to pedestrians so you can end up going really slowly and almost defeating the point of cycling. If you cycle on the roads you have to run the gauntlet of getting mown down by large vehicles (like Chelsea Tractors) - so ultimately you are the lowest of the low. <off topic> I did see a cycle path in Harlow that had pedestrian crossing points every 200m with a cyclists dismount sign at each one</off topic> I hope that whenever I cycle I am considerate to other users of my chosen route, but I do like to cycle fast at times and I don't want to have to get off my bike every few minutes to walk up steps or to pass people that would rather see me in the river. If we all exercised a little bit of courtesy there is room for everybody to use the cycle routes.
Reply ID 43721
quote:For some balance, I have been physically assaulted by a pedestrian on the tow path, purely for being a cyclist. I have a BW cycle pass (free for now) and have just as much right to use it as a pedestrian does. I personally don't cycle where I'm not allowed to. There are a _lot_ of people that upon seeing an oncoming cyclist will flatly refuse to give any way whatsoever. Those types deserve whatever may come their way.
[i] One of my friends wished for a third eye in his rear so that he could see on-coming cyclists and elbow them into the river. A useful technological advance in many situations.
Reply ID 43724
Yes but you should not ride fast on any footpath also used for pedestrians. Sorry but if you wish to impersonate Chris Boardman, then you should do so on a road.
Reply ID 43726
quote:Does that mean pedestrians should walk quicker on cycleways? [:D] Seriously, the answer is mutual respect. I often use the cycleway from Hertford to Ware along the river and always ring my bell (gently) when approaching pedestrains from behind, whom I then pass in a low gear. I've never had a problem. Anyway this is a little off-topic, so - back to The Folly!
Originally posted by Wrapper
Yes but you should not ride fast on any footpath also used for pedestrians. Sorry but if you wish to impersonate Chris Boardman, then you should do so on a road.
Reply ID 43728
Jez P is talking about driving fast which I don't think is acceptable un a PUBLIC FOOTPATH.
Reply ID 43731
quote:Jez didn't mention public footpaths, they are off limits to cyclists.
Originally posted by Wrapper
Jez P is talking about driving fast which I don't think is acceptable un a PUBLIC FOOTPATH.
Reply ID 43739
All right - Driving fast where pedestrians are
Reply ID 43746
Just to be pedantic - wasn't the towpath built for horses?
Reply ID 43756
quote:On the BBC4 programmes this week about the building of the motorways in Britain (which was more interesting than it sounds, honestly [:)]), one of the engineers involved in spaghetti junction said they had to relocate one support so that there was enough space for horses on one of the underlying canal towpaths.
Originally posted by Ted Badger
Just to be pedantic - wasn't the towpath built for horses?
Reply ID 43758
and did you know, when a barge went through a tunnel the horse was walked over the bridge and there was a young lad who would tie the barge to a pulley made of rags and use his hands and feet/toes to pull you through the tunnel and that's where the saying "you little toe rag" comes from, or something like that.........totally off topic
Reply ID 43759
I like to ride my bike faster than 4MPH - Actually I ride at a speed appropriate to the conditions, and slow down for pedestrians and dogs etc. Equally when I am walking on the towpath I try to stand aside to allow cyclists past. Maybe I should have been a little more specific in my definition of fast. Also I can't quite understand why teddylad doesn't want a cycle route down Thornton Street. Personally I think a (foot/cycle) bridge from the Bus Station to Thornton Street would also improve access to Hartham from the town. (This is made up in my head - I have no insider information or any evidence it will happen) Actually come to think of it a road bridge might be a good idea there too.
Reply ID 43760
jez_p you are a funny man/woman hahaha :)) no to cycle path because its a conspiracy with Sainsbury. they'll say its not used by cyclist that much so lets open it up as a road. thus getting what they want and destroy the atmosphere of folly island. bridge from bus station to thornton street would have to be elevated enough to allow barges under so would have to be at 1st floor height, not nice for those want to sleep. why does the council not make a proper path in Frampton street leading up to the car park??? would make the route along the river a more intuitive.
Reply ID 43761
There are various caveats written by the Andrews and Thorntons to prevent Folly Island becoming a through route. The bridge across to the bus station was unanimously thrown out by the residents about 10 years ago and no one has dared thought about ressurecting it. Sainsbury's had no clue about this nor about the plans being discussed since 1976 or earlier regarding the reversal of traffic flow on the Island. This has been the preferred option of many agencies not least the emergency services but even if Thornton Street was opened there is no way that there would be a through road from there to Folly Bridge (see above). Most of this was discussed on the Sainsbury's thread. The fact that Route 61 is being constrcuted should be enough evidence that there is no plans yet to open it up. AS for the allotments you really are opening up a can of worms at your peril. Even the smallest piece is sacrosanct otherwise the parking problem on the Island would have been solved years ago with or without a residents parking zone.
Reply ID 43762
Can't get rid of the allotments, teddylad, us residents wouldn't be able to get our organic courgettes! Also, John, residents parking been solved? Thats funny!!
Reply ID 43763
quote:With all due respect, I think you're probably seeing something that isn't there. Sainsbury's haven't even applied for planning permission yet and I would expect they're still in exploratory talks with EHDC and Herts Highways. To suggest that the cycle path is anything to do with Sainsbury's is fanciful and without foundation, IMHO. [:)]
Originally posted by teddylad
no to cycle path because its a conspiracy with Sainsbury.
Reply ID 43766
I didn't want to mention this Michell but years ago we came up with an engineer's drawing that showed how 20 cars (I think) could be parked nose in along Frampton Street whilst retaining the trees if we were to take back ten foot of the allotments. I repeated this at an Annual Town Meeting and was attacked by a lynch mob followed by letters to my home address complaining about destroying our green and pleasant land. What I meant to imply was that if we were able to develop that scheme and parking was still allowed on the car park the RPZ would have been a much better scheme when finally put in place. As it is we lost 35 spaces on the car park which really ruined any sensible plans.