Topic ID 2954
"HERTFORD Safer Neighbourhoods Team are going to give bikers a final warning to stay off private property in Hertford, or they could face arrest. Police are erecting signs on the land known locally as Archers Springs on the B1000 Welwyn Road informing the public that it is private property and those found on the land will be reported to police and dealt with." http://www.herts.police.uk/crimedatabase/site/content.php?article_id=3770
Reply ID 42875
Interesting. Wonder if I can still take my son over there on our bikes (pedal powered)? He'd be most disappointed if not. We take the dog over there as well - there are public footpaths which are marked and there is an entrance into the area by the new community centre. Hopefully they are just warning off the quad bikers and motor bikers.
Reply ID 42876
Though I know where this is and have seen off-road bikes congregating nearby, I'd like to know a little more, if anyone can help. Who's private property is Archer's Spring at the moment? What is it used for (other than bike based recreation)? In what way are the bike users activities "anti-social" (is it the noise, or are there other issues too)? Are there any forum members living nearby, who can tell us what it's like?
Reply ID 42877
I think it may belong to John Lloyd Sports Centres. I vaguely remember there being a rumour that they were going to build a Sports Centre on the land. A group of travellers took advantage of the access to the site being eased and pitched up on it for a while. After they were moved off and the site entrance blocked, it's all gone quiet. Except for the dirt bikers and quad bikers. I would guess that the anti-social behaviour is mainly noise but they also go into the woods and churn up the footpath / bridleway. The land is very open and there are a few small mounds that are great for zooming down on a bike. By the Sele Farm estate and along the B1000 it is fairly flat but drops down considerably into the woods. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=hertford&ie=UTF8&ll=51.803281,-0.111945&spn=0.006515,0.021501&t=h&z=16&iwloc=addr&om=1 If you follow Bentley Road and turn right into Welwyn Road, the bikers generally enter where the "d" is in "Welwyn Rd" The land does not appear to be maintained in any way.
Reply ID 42878
All the background of this troubled site at http://www.hertford.net/issues/sports.asp ... and the big picture: http://www.hertford.net/issues/sports.asp
Reply ID 42882
Hmmm. The old history I know well from the horse's mouth, so to speak. That Lloyds still own it now suprises me though, though I am aware that they were still hopeful a few years ago. Getting this project out of the ground has defeated everybody for years. Sadly, the gravel extraction has been key to the financing and viability of plans so far. It seems a shame that it's so close to housing, as it could be said that trail riding is a sporting/leisure activity in it's own right and requires no building or investment. No profit either.
Reply ID 42890
The key think is more likely to be that if a person gets injured while doing anything on the site, they can legally sue the owners. Therefore the owner has to take all possible steps to stop people using the site to avoid an expensive lawsuit. that is unfortunately the way of the world [:(]
Reply ID 42906
Surely, if it's private property, the owners can do what they bloody well like with it, within the law? The fact that it doesn't appear to be used for anything at all does not mean that anyone can just take it over for whatever purpose suits them, social or anti-social. Whatever happened to respect for other people's property? What lesson is this teaching our kids? No wonder we have anti-social behaviour problems if parents are willing to drive their kids and their motorbikes to private land, break down fences to get in and then race around it in full view of the law. I don't think the excuse "we aren't doing any harm" can stand up here when clearly they are not only carving out tracks but also irritating residents with their noise and creating potential traffic hazards by parking their vans and trailers along the verge.
Reply ID 42909
quote:I think you might have misunderstood my comments. Indeed private land is private land. It's still a shame that this patch has not achieved the use intended, having been already been excavated and made into something atractive only to off-road bikers. It exists in limbo, neither building land, nor greenbelt. If I were living nearby the uncertainty would be my concern.
Originally posted by nora batty
Surely, if it's private property, the owners can do what they bloody well like with it, within the law? The fact that it doesn't appear to be used for anything at all does not mean that anyone can just take it over for whatever purpose suits them, social or anti-social. Whatever happened to respect for other people's property? What lesson is this teaching our kids? No wonder we have anti-social behaviour problems if parents are willing to drive their kids and their motorbikes to private land, break down fences to get in and then race around it in full view of the law. I don't think the excuse "we aren't doing any harm" can stand up here when clearly they are not only carving out tracks but also irritating residents with their noise and creating potential traffic hazards by parking their vans and trailers along the verge.
Reply ID 42911
Nora's right Shunt. I wouldn't want a group of people congregating in my front garden either. I know you have had problems with the pub clientèle and the footballs kicked at your fence etc, but if David Lloyd's company own the land surely you would agree with Nora's sentiments? It must be a tad annoying for the residents of Sele Farm too surely.
Reply ID 42912
quote:We seem to be violently agreeing.[:D]
Originally posted by James007
Nora's right Shunt. I wouldn't want a group of people congregating in my front garden either. I know you have had problems with the pub clientèle and the footballs kicked at your fence etc, but if David Lloyd's company own the land surely you would agree with Nora's sentiments? It must be a tad annoying for the residents of Sele Farm too surely.
Reply ID 42914
quote:Naa, your truck is bigger than mine. [:)]
Originally posted by shuntquote:We seem to be violently agreeing.[:D]
Originally posted by James007
Nora's right Shunt. I wouldn't want a group of people congregating in my front garden either. I know you have had problems with the pub clientèle and the footballs kicked at your fence etc, but if David Lloyd's company own the land surely you would agree with Nora's sentiments? It must be a tad annoying for the residents of Sele Farm too surely.
Reply ID 43225
Well, didn't last long, 1st August - 8.30 pm there was a white transit putting a trails bike in the back of it right on the grass verge of the Archer's Spring site on B1000.. not a Cop car, PCSO or anything in sight! I didn't make a note of licence as I was driving, but if he was caught I would have thought cops would have made sure he went and got due notice of his offence.. so am assuming maybe wrongly, that he wasn't caught.. Either way.. so much for the "strong arm of the law" ![:(]
Reply ID 43226
You mean a strongly worded sign wasn't enough to deter them? My my, what is the world coming to?
Reply ID 43229
Quite! Its a piddly sign anyway!!!!
Reply ID 43232
I did see some there last Sunday and a police car heading their way, I was already past so no idea if he stopped to give them a ticking off or not :-) Can't see a sighn will stop them, barbed wire maybe but you are not allowed to do that are you!
Reply ID 43258
If its private land I think you can. For example, if that was my field and I stabled a horse on it, its my responsibility to keep my animal IN not others OUT so.. I would have to put up appropriate safe fencing to stop my horsey getting out!!!! I would appreciate a point of law on this but I believe that's the way it works, you don't fence others out, you fence your land in!!! Any one??
Reply ID 43262
quote:The use of wire to exclude intruders of a type which is specifically designed to maim is prohibited.
Originally posted by Drama Queen
If its private land I think you can. For example, if that was my field and I stabled a horse on it, its my responsibility to keep my animal IN not others OUT so.. I would have to put up appropriate safe fencing to stop my horsey getting out!!!! I would appreciate a point of law on this but I believe that's the way it works, you don't fence others out, you fence your land in!!! Any one??
Reply ID 43263
I'll cover mine in fluff then!
Reply ID 43271
quote:Delightfully girlie.[:D] That should put those rufty-tufty bikers off.
Originally posted by Drama Queen
I'll cover mine in fluff then!
Reply ID 43280
No one paying attention to the notice today. Can hear them from my backgarden
Reply ID 43281
They have used if for so long now I would think it will take more than a notice to stop them.
Reply ID 43309
It just gets better.. The piddly sign has "disappeared" I was driving past a pikey, and it was a pikey van parked there yesterday after watching Rock in the Castle about 7pm and there was a van with fridges in the back, no sign with the 0845 number on it to contact the Police etc if you are trespassing on Archers Spring.. Is anyone from the Force reading these... I think time to exert pressure. Its obvious to me if the weather is good, they come out to use the land after work and at the weekends.. do you think you could drive by????? Anyone.. now the sign has been nicked!!!!!! Thanks terribly!!!!
Reply ID 43320
I notice today the sign and the post have gone.
Reply ID 43321
quote:Er, that's what DQ said in the post above yours!
Originally posted by GillP
I notice today the sign and the post have gone.
Reply ID 43324
quote:Missed a few words out.. should have read "I too noticed today the sign and post has gone"
Originally posted by Stevequote:Er, that's what DQ said in the post above yours!
Originally posted by GillP
I notice today the sign and the post have gone.
Reply ID 43418
Sign back again yesterday.
Reply ID 43430
Marvellous, I'll be driving past there about 6.15 pm tonight, wonder if the little monsters will be there.. or in the pub?????