Topic ID 2656
Given that East Herts is a relatively wealthy area and a fairly pleasant place to be and Hertford is a thriving town - especially for restaurants and bars - why is it that the shopping is just a bit bland? There are some good one off shops like Farrow and Farrow etc, but something seems to be missing somehow. Those chain stores that there are just seem the wrong ones... Woolworths is dated, Edinburgh Wool (Nylon?) Company or whatever it's called is dreadful, even the new M&Co is just a bit... bluurgh. Monsoon is good, as is Waitrose and M&S Food, but we need more like them and I can't understand given the town's potential that other top stores don't want to come here. Is it higher than average rents or something? One reason might be the Saturday market which personally I think is dreadful in general and seems to attract track suits and baseball caps from all around- especially the off putting Barry's Meat truck, the burger van parked in the middle of the road and the bit down the wind tunnel that is Maidenhead Street. Just try pushing a pushchair down there - there isn't enough room between the stalls. And who buys the stuff on them anyway? Biscuits, mobile phone covers and batteries - yawn. The Farmer's market is great and gives a much more up-market (excuse the pun) impression of the town. I don't know what the answer is, but it's frustrating because there just seems to me to be so much potential for Hertford to be a really buzzing shopping town.
Reply ID 38224
I totally agree about the shopping etc. But there are people living in Hertford that maybe cannot afford to shop in some of the more expensive places as we (can) choose to do.
Reply ID 38225
quote:I don't agree with what you say in general - I think people that criticise Hertford's shops don't explore what's really there enough, and discount the town because it's not packed with the chain names that they feel comfortable in. On your paragraph above in particular, the market seems to do very good trade, so there's clearly a market for it. The town should cater for people of all levels of economic means, which it does.
Originally posted by maggie
One reason might be the Saturday market which personally I think is dreadful in general and seems to attract track suits and baseball caps from all around- especially the off putting Barry's Meat truck, the burger van parked in the middle of the road and the bit down the wind tunnel that is Maidenhead Street. Just try pushing a pushchair down there - there isn't enough room between the stalls. And who buys the stuff on them anyway? Biscuits, mobile phone covers and batteries - yawn. The Farmer's market is great and gives a much more up-market (excuse the pun) impression of the town.
Reply ID 38226
This is a subject that has already been had some coverage on other threads... [url="http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=2038"]What shops do we need in Hertford?[/url] [url="http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=2038"]What Town Centre Solutions?[/url] [url="http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=2038"]What shops are missing in Hertford?[/url]
Reply ID 38227
quote:Rather than the usual moaning about what Hertford lacks - why not let us have your views on what Hertford needs? As a retailer I feel that Hertford has changed dramatically over the last 2 years in terms of the retail offer and is improving in leaps and bounds, particularly with the M&S arrival etc. Have you really shopped in Hertford - or have you just done what most people do and browsed in a couple of windows at one end of the town?!
Originally posted by maggie
Given that East Herts is a relatively wealthy area and a fairly pleasant place to be and Hertford is a thriving town - especially for restaurants and bars - why is it that the shopping is just a bit bland? There are some good one off shops like Farrow and Farrow etc, but something seems to be missing somehow. Those chain stores that there are just seem the wrong ones... Woolworths is dated, Edinburgh Wool (Nylon?) Company or whatever it's called is dreadful, even the new M&Co is just a bit... bluurgh. Monsoon is good, as is Waitrose and M&S Food, but we need more like them and I can't understand given the town's potential that other top stores don't want to come here. Is it higher than average rents or something? One reason might be the Saturday market which personally I think is dreadful in general and seems to attract track suits and baseball caps from all around- especially the off putting Barry's Meat truck, the burger van parked in the middle of the road and the bit down the wind tunnel that is Maidenhead Street. Just try pushing a pushchair down there - there isn't enough room between the stalls. And who buys the stuff on them anyway? Biscuits, mobile phone covers and batteries - yawn. The Farmer's market is great and gives a much more up-market (excuse the pun) impression of the town. I don't know what the answer is, but it's frustrating because there just seems to me to be so much potential for Hertford to be a really buzzing shopping town.
Reply ID 38228
Well, as a shopper extraordinaire, I think that Hertford is actually not bad. A typical Saturday may find me wandering along to the market, picking up some bread from the Flour Power stall (divine!), a couple of plants or some flowers and a little look-see in Monsoon. Then Farrow and Farrow. Then I might go up to St Andrew's Street to Hertford Women's Society and I've also just discovered the art shop. Then maybe along to Marmalade or Kitten to see what they've got in, back down Fore Street to pop into the little knick knack shop next to Pizza Express, to Jenners for a magazine or two then M&S for some yummy food. That's not bad as far as I'm concerned. Yes, there are no big department stores but Welywn is only about 7 miles away for John Lewis and London is 45 minutes on the train. What I love about shopping in Hertford is that it is still possible to wander, to find things that you don't get everywhere else and, one of the main reasons I want to live here, that it isn't a 'clone town'. It's certainly a different shopping experience, as you have to go to lots of different shops to pick up bits and pieces but to me, that's a pleasure. If I wanted a soulless shopping experience I'd go to Bluewater [xx(]. I think the bit around Bircherley Green is particularly unlovely, but then there are useful 'everyday' shops there. Yes, the market isn't cool and upmarket, but the bit outside Cafe Nero's is certainly getting a lot nicer. The main thing, to my mind, is that the town reflects the people who live here - families who are on a tight budget and need to spend carefully, as well as lovely 'lifestyle' type shops for little treats.
Reply ID 38229
quote:I feel I can't let this thread go by without putting a point of view; I'm sure that many other people will add to this thread in the coming days.. First, let me declare an interest. I have run and owned a retail business in Hertford for nearly 15 years. It's very, very tough. We survive by having a successful commercial (B2B)side as well as a shop. But retail everywhere is getting harder and harder. Shopping patterns are changing constantly, with the growth in the internet and with competition from supermarkets- pinching everyone elses business. Hertford is no different from other towns in this respect; but, conversely, it is. The thing that helps Hertford stand out from the rest, is the wealth of independent retailers that we have here. Hertford never has, and never will be, a mecca for shoppers. We are surrounded by other magnets like WGC, Stevenage and Harlow. Not to mention Brookfield Farm. It is here, I would say,that all the shops look the same, and (to use the word in Maggie's word) 'bland' Because historically Hertford is a Medieval town, most of the shops are small. Because of the other towns, Hertford cannot attract the larger chains unless (very rarely) does a unit like Methuens come onto market. There simply isn't the footfall available to be attractive for the multiples. And that's where the independents score, and, to my mind at least, makes Hertford more attractive and wonderfully different to other larger towns. I think we buzz quite a lot, if truth be known. Anyway, to answer Maggie's other points. Rents - well, what can I say. Even in a secondary position, our rent would make most people's eyes water. But the again, It's probably no different elsewhere. And the market? - well, if it brings people into the town on a Saturday (more so for the Farmer's Market) then it's got to be a good thing, and again, adds to the different atmosphere in this (albeit small) County Town. So, in conclusion, please don't give up on the town. Enjoy the difference. Go to John Lewis occaisionally. Pop down to M & S from time to time. Buy the odd book from Amazon. But come back to Hertford and realise how lucky we are to have Farrow and Farrow, Botsfords, Harts, Wiggingtons and possibly certain other shops in St.Andrew Street which I'm too modest to mention... [:)]
Originally posted by maggie
Given that East Herts is a relatively wealthy area and a fairly pleasant place to be and Hertford is a thriving town - especially for restaurants and bars - why is it that the shopping is just a bit bland? There are some good one off shops like Farrow and Farrow etc, but something seems to be missing somehow. Those chain stores that there are just seem the wrong ones... Woolworths is dated, Edinburgh Wool (Nylon?) Company or whatever it's called is dreadful, even the new M&Co is just a bit... bluurgh. Monsoon is good, as is Waitrose and M&S Food, but we need more like them and I can't understand given the town's potential that other top stores don't want to come here. Is it higher than average rents or something? One reason might be the Saturday market which personally I think is dreadful in general and seems to attract track suits and baseball caps from all around- especially the off putting Barry's Meat truck, the burger van parked in the middle of the road and the bit down the wind tunnel that is Maidenhead Street. Just try pushing a pushchair down there - there isn't enough room between the stalls. And who buys the stuff on them anyway? Biscuits, mobile phone covers and batteries - yawn. The Farmer's market is great and gives a much more up-market (excuse the pun) impression of the town. I don't know what the answer is, but it's frustrating because there just seems to me to be so much potential for Hertford to be a really buzzing shopping town.
Reply ID 38230
quote:I'll have you know I bought a very nice pair of v cut price thermal gloves last week - "nawt £15.99, nawt £3 but £2.50 to you sur" "a quid..... look its summer now, its hot!" - "ewrr alwright then" And they wee quality tailor made for a Wookie - trust me. You know I like the market - warts & all (& seriously I have bought lots of scarves & gloves over the many winters to face the Artic of Hoe Lane - which then I lose as a hobby). Some of it may be tacky but then again, much as I like the Farmer's market, a lot of the produce there is priced well above its worth. It can pander to the small minority who can show their undoubted status and position; and of course put the rest of us back in our proper place. Down market. Or is there an element of inverted snobbery cropping up here... don't know what set me off on that. I think Hertford could do with a proper "Pound Shop". In a central location............ selling batteries & biscuits (yumm).
Originally posted by maggie
Just try pushing a pushchair down there - there isn't enough room between the stalls. And who buys the stuff on them anyway? Biscuits, mobile phone covers and batteries - yawn. The Farmer's market is great and gives a much more up-market (excuse the pun) impression of the town.
Reply ID 38232
quote:Surely SLades and Just Looking fit into that category.... they are not quite pound shops, but they are pretty cheap.
I think Hertford could do with a proper "Pound Shop". In a central location.
Reply ID 38234
quote:Given the limited amounted of retail space and parking I think Hertford is pretty well served with regards to shops. Yes, there could be improvements but generally I think the balance is okay. The one thing I would not want to see is a dominance of the chains that you seem to think are the marque of quality. Hertford's mix of chains and small, independent traders is part of it's identity and the reason people shop there. It marks it out as different from the clones such as Welwyn Garden City. If Hertford were a smaller version of the Howard Centre it would fail. It doesn't have the footfall of the parking space to cope. And as for the market...............again, a broad mix. I suggest that having a market is a sign of a thriving (or surviving!) retail environment in Hertford. If the market were to disappear it would be a measure of a decline in sales and it would deal a blow to the permanent retail outlets as those who9 come to the town for the market shop elsewhere. Further to this, I see Hertford Market as asmaller version of St Albans market, just as Hertford has less retail outlets. St Albans market survives and adds to the town just as Hertford's does. A little further afield, Norwich and Cambridge also have markets right in amomngst the shops and I don't think they harm the prospects of those as shopping centres.
Originally posted by maggie
Given that East Herts is a relatively wealthy area and a fairly pleasant place to be and Hertford is a thriving town - especially for restaurants and bars - why is it that the shopping is just a bit bland? There are some good one off shops like Farrow and Farrow etc, but something seems to be missing somehow. Those chain stores that there are just seem the wrong ones... Woolworths is dated, Edinburgh Wool (Nylon?) Company or whatever it's called is dreadful, even the new M&Co is just a bit... bluurgh. Monsoon is good, as is Waitrose and M&S Food, but we need more like them and I can't understand given the town's potential that other top stores don't want to come here. Is it higher than average rents or something? One reason might be the Saturday market which personally I think is dreadful in general and seems to attract track suits and baseball caps from all around- especially the off putting Barry's Meat truck, the burger van parked in the middle of the road and the bit down the wind tunnel that is Maidenhead Street. Just try pushing a pushchair down there - there isn't enough room between the stalls. And who buys the stuff on them anyway? Biscuits, mobile phone covers and batteries - yawn. The Farmer's market is great and gives a much more up-market (excuse the pun) impression of the town. I don't know what the answer is, but it's frustrating because there just seems to me to be so much potential for Hertford to be a really buzzing shopping town.
Reply ID 38236
Arty - well said. Listed buildings are small and non-expandable; larger buildings that multiples would be interested in are in lower foot fall areas (apart from the Ex-McDonalds-Soon-To-Be-HSBC: now there's a waste of a prime retail site if ever there was one), rents are high, rates are high etc. I'm amazed that so many independents manage to keep going and note that the names that keep cropping up do not include the vast number of beauty/nail/salon premises. I wonder how long Hertford can cope with repetitive business types...or rather, how long repetitive business types can cope with the competition before closing. I love Hertford for the independent retailers who keep battling on against the money-sucking powers that be (Gordon Brown...). Infact, since moving here, we have deliberately moved over to using the independants and escewing the supermarkets. We shop at the market, particularly at Mick the Veg and particularly in summer when the fruit tastes like ripe, juicy fruit should taste at a fraction of the price of the unripe, flavourless "fruit" available in supermarkets. It would be great if more individual, independents would be able to take on some leases to fill the retail opportunity gaps (shoes etc). Hertford has a remarkably varied demographic. It is also worth considering that it is the County Town which represents the County and as such all types of people, the tracksuit & baseball cap wearing included, are welcome. East Herts may be considered a "wealthy area" but how much of that wealth is spent on mortgages? Capitalist Piglet's comment on snobbery has an element of truth, I feel. Not everyone can afford to shop at the farmer's market, M&S etc. A significant number of people - from all walks of life, career, family size, housing stock etc - are careful with their finances and quite rightly so. A joy of Hertford is that it feels quite even-handed and is not an "upmarket" town (despite estate agents' blather and the house prices) and if it were, I for one would not feel comfortable living here.
Reply ID 38239
quote:If you think Hertford is bad (i don't think it is) you should try Ware where i live, loads of banks and Estate agents and charity shops, and small market with not a lot of substance and Tesco (which to be fair has caused a lot of the Ware shops of the past to close (ie Fish Mongers, Green Grocers, Butchers, Cloths Shops, Record Shop, i could go on but won't as this is supposed to be Hertford Forum not Ware.
Originally posted by maggie
Given that East Herts is a relatively wealthy area and a fairly pleasant place to be and Hertford is a thriving town - especially for restaurants and bars - why is it that the shopping is just a bit bland? There are some good one off shops like Farrow and Farrow etc, but something seems to be missing somehow. Those chain stores that there are just seem the wrong ones... Woolworths is dated, Edinburgh Wool (Nylon?) Company or whatever it's called is dreadful, even the new M&Co is just a bit... bluurgh. Monsoon is good, as is Waitrose and M&S Food, but we need more like them and I can't understand given the town's potential that other top stores don't want to come here. Is it higher than average rents or something? One reason might be the Saturday market which personally I think is dreadful in general and seems to attract track suits and baseball caps from all around- especially the off putting Barry's Meat truck, the burger van parked in the middle of the road and the bit down the wind tunnel that is Maidenhead Street. Just try pushing a pushchair down there - there isn't enough room between the stalls. And who buys the stuff on them anyway? Biscuits, mobile phone covers and batteries - yawn. The Farmer's market is great and gives a much more up-market (excuse the pun) impression of the town. I don't know what the answer is, but it's frustrating because there just seems to me to be so much potential for Hertford to be a really buzzing shopping town.
Reply ID 38241
There are some really good replies here. You have actually made me realise something - that Hertford is diverse and 'genuine'. It is not a pastiche town with twee liitle tea rooms and craft shops etc. It is a living breathing real town that is getting on with its business. Thanks - you have made me appreciate it more - warts and all.
Reply ID 38242
The point of the forum, to gain opinion
Reply ID 38289
I blame Tesco!
Reply ID 38293
I love wandering around Hertford on a Saturday afternoon - the atmosphere is lovely as are many of the shops and some of the market stalls. Ok, so it's not a lot of good for a wardrobe, shoe makeover, but we have the horrors of Welwyn, Harlow or Brookfield Farm not far off, where I, for one, hyperventilate for a couple of hours & get out as quickly as I can.
Reply ID 38320
quote:You sure know how to kill threads! [;)]
Originally posted by Admin
http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=2360 (No.3)
Reply ID 38506
In the 'good old days' Hertford had 6 shoe-shops, 3 furniture shops, ladies clothing, a hat shop, numerous butchers, bakers, toy shops etc., an indoor market and shopping arcade. The market was on both sides of Bull Plain and all the way down Bircherley Green and around to the lifts by Waitrose. There was a home brew stall, baby wear, coats, shoes........... Way back in 1982, just after Bircherley Green opened, M & S had considered moving into town, probably into the units once occupied by Methvens, but they felt that the town didn't have enough chains to attract shoppers. Thankfully, despite its retail short-comings, I'm very pleased we haven't been cloned into yet another soulless Next/River Island/Gap/Emperor's New Clothes townette.
Reply ID 38508
quote:I'll second that FW.
Originally posted by Fish Wife
In the 'good old days' Hertford had 6 shoe-shops, 3 furniture shops, ladies clothing, a hat shop, numerous butchers, bakers, toy shops etc., an indoor market and shopping arcade. The market was on both sides of Bull Plain and all the way down Bircherley Green and around to the lifts by Waitrose. There was a home brew stall, baby wear, coats, shoes........... Way back in 1982, just after Bircherley Green opened, M & S had considered moving into town, probably into the units once occupied by Methvens, but they felt that the town didn't have enough chains to attract shoppers. Thankfully, despite its retail short-comings, I'm very pleased we haven't been cloned into yet another soulless Next/River Island/Gap/Emperor's New Clothes townette.
Reply ID 38523
I'll third that FW.
Reply ID 38525
Why do T-Mobile think a town of Hertford's size can justify a mobile phone shop of that size?
Reply ID 38527
Maybe they've judged that O2 have made it work, therefore so can they.
Reply ID 38537
quote:I was so disappointed when they opened up there, what a waste of prime retail space! But maybe that's cos I'm a 30-something female - not the target market perhaps?[;)]
Originally posted by thefair1973
Why do T-Mobile think a town of Hertford's size can justify a mobile phone shop of that size?