Topic ID 2257
We don't have "Tourism" Forum, so I think this is the appropriate spot. Is it just me, or is anyone else frustrated at Hertford's lack of willingness to cash in on The Holy Grail story? In my opinion, Hertford has missed a couple of golden promotional opportunities here - the first time when documentary makers filmed in Hertford in response to the phenomenal success of Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code, second time when the Da Vinci Code film opened. If the story on P.21 of The Mercury today is true, surely instead of sending interested parties away saying "nothing has been identified at the castle that can be linked to The Templars" we should be saying "it's possible..." or "legend has it" etc. and giving the alleged story, thickly padded with other interesting facts about our town. The Town Council and Tourist Information should have reacted first time around and prepared to welcome interested parties. With so many shops closing, and new restaurants and Hotels opening, this is exactly the kind of publicity Hertford needs. Discuss.
Reply ID 31273
Could'nt agree more. However bus loads of Yanks would be the down side!!
Reply ID 31285
What? you mean bus loads of yanks, spending money in our town? yes i can see how that could be bad!
Reply ID 31291
I would prefer Hertford to trade on its genuine merits rather than a load of bunkum.
Reply ID 31292
It may well be a load of bunkum, but the fact is that Hertford is dying and needs tourism. My point is that this is a ready-made platform for attracting tourists. You may well prefer that the town used it's genuine merits, so would I, but it isn't and hasn't. And one of its genuine merits is slowly being choked to death by business rates, parking issues etc. Meanwhile, Hertford snobs are fiddling while Rome burns.
Reply ID 31295
And now there's a really decent new hotel in Hertford, all the tourists can stay and spend their money in town.
Reply ID 31298
I think this is a terrible idea. I would not want to see Hertford become a "theme park town" whose fame is based on some dodgy speculation in an overhyped pulp novel. What exactly would the tourists see regarding templars/ holy grails etc when they got here? Perhaps the Sainsbury's site or Mead Lane could be transformed into the "Da Vinci experience", all those coach parties would do wonders for Hertford's traffic system.
Reply ID 31299
I would also prefer Hertford to trade on its merits.......But its not....ergo i agree with Nora
Reply ID 31302
quote:This would be a very exagerrated version of what I am suggesting. I can't see anyone getting permission to turn Hertford into a theme town. And I don't think the novel was over-hyped, I thought it was a great STORY. What tourists would see is the buildings that have been suggested as being connected to the STORY, and the historical FACTS of Hertford's history. The Da Vinci thing is just a lure. I'd be prepared to put up with a few coaches if it meant some money coming in to town - the traffic system could not be any worse than it is currently. Besides, the coaches would be on the road off-peak. I certainly would prefer this scenario to the Town Council telling people to go away. How would you get a world-wide audience to think about visiting Hertford, Andrew?
Originally posted by Andrew
I think this is a terrible idea. I would not want to see Hertford become a "theme park town" whose fame is based on some dodgy speculation in an overhyped pulp novel. What exactly would the tourists see regarding templars/ holy grails etc when they got here? Perhaps the Sainsbury's site or Mead Lane could be transformed into the "Da Vinci experience", all those coach parties would do wonders for Hertford's traffic system.
Reply ID 31305
Norah - I can see where you're coming from and at the moment I am waiting to see if our application to join the 'hidden britain' campaign has been successful. A more open question - If so, do I actively promote the tenous link with secret societies along with the real stuff such as Easter, architecture, Biggles etc etc. We do not actually have a real castle, there are no dungeons only storerooms converted into dungeons for medieval nights (or knights), a few castle walls, no cutaway tunnels beneath Fore Street such as i used to construct in Rollercoaster Tycoon and no cloaked figures hiding in the shadows only to emerge once a month to meet in the function rooms of a local hostelry. As a hook the Knights Templar are a really good marketing ploy but if you were to pay loadsamoney to visit Hertford for a pint of AK sipped from a golden chalice would you feel just a little undersold if there was nothing to see - apart from the Town Council at work. On the other hand I really want to sell hertford as a good place to wander around, enjoy a pie and a pint and a entertaining AV guide hired from the TIC or museum.
Reply ID 31306
quote:I was once told there is (or maybe was) a tunnel below Fore St that led from the Castle built as an escape route from the latter. Does anyone know anymore about this?
Originally posted by sloopjohnb no cutaway tunnels beneath Fore Street such as i used to construct in Rollercoaster Tycoon
Reply ID 31308
We mustn't confuse the Da Vinci Code with the search for the Holy Grail. In the Da Vinci code the story concludes that the Holy Grail is a bloodline. I do think Hertford can exploit what is already happening/ has happened. I think the town should publicly acknowledge that there are people who believe Hertford is strongly connected to the Templars, and examine the reasons for their beliefs. It could be reverse marketed e.g "This is Hertford Castle where some people believe... but in actual fact..." Hertford cannot be blamed for all the renewed interest in its history, but it can certainly react to it in a way that is beneficial to the town. PS I'm sure Macs could think of a suitable name for a Limited Edition ale... Grail Ale?
Reply ID 31309
quote:[?][?]
Originally posted by 2929paul
And now there's a really decent new hotel in Hertford, all the tourists can stay and spend their money in town.
Reply ID 31310
quote:There is tons of stuff already on the forum about this. Use "Search" at the top of the page (be sure to put a tick in the "Archived pages" box.)
Originally posted by plover
I was once told there is (or maybe was) a tunnel below Fore St that led from the Castle built as an escape route from the latter. Does anyone know anymore about this?
Reply ID 31315
quote:YES!
Originally posted by sloopjohnb
Norah - I can see where you're coming from and at the moment I am waiting to see if our application to join the 'hidden britain' campaign has been successful. A more open question - If so, do I actively promote the tenous link with secret societies along with the real stuff such as Easter, architecture, Biggles etc etc.
Reply ID 31325
What ever happened to the abandoned Regional Seat of Government under Sovereign House? Wasn't there some talk of making that a tourist venue?
Reply ID 31340
I would'nt go so far as to advocate gift shops selling the discipline and the cilice, but generally I'm with Nora on this - we ought to capitalise more on the continued interest and speculation the subject generates.
Reply ID 31341
quote:Rather than coming in by coach on day trips they stay at the Hertford Hotel and spend their cash in the local pubs and restaurants during the evening.
Originally posted by Roosterquote:[?][?]
Originally posted by 2929paul
And now there's a really decent new hotel in Hertford, all the tourists can stay and spend their money in town.
Reply ID 31344
I think there's a lot more we could do and sloop is probably doing a lot of it already. But when you walk around Hertford on any given day and look around you, it's not often in the best of order, with litter sprinkled here and there, shop windows boarded up, the odd pavement pizza, taxis parked all over the place, delivery vans here there and everywhere, tatty market traders' stalls, road works and noisy smelly queues of traffic. On a good day, it's wonderful but on a bad or even average day, it must be distinctly off-putting to visitors. It is up to the citizens and traders in the town to take a bit of pride to ensure that this is a place that people will want to visit and return to and tell others about. If there is some sort of hook to get them here in the first place, then so much the better.
Reply ID 31353
quote:What about selling it as a town with an intriguing history, currently fascinating far-flung countries (Australia) and respected institutions (BBC)?
Originally posted by sloopjohnb On the other hand I really want to sell hertford as a good place to wander around, enjoy a pie and a pint and a entertaining AV guide hired from the TIC or museum.
Reply ID 31354
quote:Nora, I have believed in this for years. Having been born-and-bred here, I am disappointed with the lack of involvement of local people and particularly schools within the town. I also question why our local rag has not been promoting the town in conjuction with the administrator of this site to help the town develop.
Originally posted by nora battyquote:What about selling it as a town with an intriguing history, currently fascinating far-flung countries (Australia) and respected institutions (BBC)?
Originally posted by sloopjohnb On the other hand I really want to sell hertford as a good place to wander around, enjoy a pie and a pint and a entertaining AV guide hired from the TIC or museum.
Reply ID 31424
Sloop, I don't think you need worry about the lack of evidence disappointing people. It's all in the marketing. Take Loch Ness as an example. A mythical monster, the hardest evidence of which is a grainy photograph which has since been revealed as a hoax. Yet Loch Ness is still one of Scotland's top tourist attractions. It's on every tour itinerary, there are exhibitions, gift shops, cafes and excursions. If you look at the Loch Ness tourism websites you get a brief mention of why Loch Ness has become so famous, and the rest of the information is about the history of the area, the wildlife, the geography, things to do and see. (Perhaps we need grainy CCTV footage of a Templar digging up a chalice in the Castle grounds...)
Reply ID 31456
quote:YES YES YES! Totally agreed!
Originally posted by nora batty
Sloop, It's all in the marketing.
quote:Mmm, are you encouraging CS Productions to get in on the marketing, too?[:D]
(Perhaps we need grainy CCTV footage of a Templar digging up a chalice in the Castle grounds...)
Reply ID 31524
Hertford history is fascinating to Hertford residents, but is it really strong or dramatic enough to appeal to tourists without some embellishment?
Reply ID 31525
quote:Exactly. So embellish it.
Originally posted by shunt
Hertford history is fascinating to Hertford residents, but is it really strong or dramatic enough to appeal to tourists without some embellishment?
Reply ID 31644
Having lived in the States for way too long and arriving shortly in Hertford with my car load of Yanks (couldn't manage a bus load - the dollar's dreadful)I must say that I agree with the threads suggesting that Hertford does not make the most of its history. The castle, with all its very real history as well as its more tenuous links to the past, is pitifully served with exhibitons and info. Anything connected to knights and castles would be a big hit at my house. Haven't read the da Vinci code - is Hertford mentioned?
Reply ID 31711
No, it isn't. But the Da Vinci code re-awakened a lot of interest in the Holy Grail, which some believe to have been hidden in Hertford by some Templar types that were imprisoned here. If you search the Forum for Holy Grail, especially the archived topics, you'll get the gist. I see from today's Mercury p.6 we have the Mayoress involved in this debate now! http://www.herts-essex-news.co.uk/news/mercury/hertfordshire_mercury/2006/12/01/mayor%20wants%20town%20on%20holy%20grail%20trail.lpf
Reply ID 31742
The tourism sector is a beneficial component of our local economy. Therefore, if local history can be promoted to attract a few additional tourists, surely only a philistine would discourage it? Steve's knowledge of these topics may be confined to "a load of bunkum", however he should not assume that nobody else is capable of finding "genuine merits" in our local historical heritage. We could all be forgiven for dismissing the "Holy Grail" or the "Knights Templar" as "bunkum", if we derive our knowledge of these topics from works of fiction like the blockbuster movie, "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade", or the best-selling novel "The Da Vinci Code", or conspiracy theories from the Internet. History is always a balance between fact and fiction. In reality, the "Holy Grail" and the "Knights Templar" are perfectly serious topics for serious academics and scholars of history, literature, mythology, the arts, etc, and indeed have been for centuries. The story is also appealing to ordinary people, and Hertford is an important part of the story.
Reply ID 38305
A long time since this was first raised and I am a little surprised that a)it wasn't mentioned when people were complaining about non-stories in the Mercury because it was well highlighted and b) it appears on the newscast at the head of the home page etc. as well as on Hertbeat and a press release from East Herts which might also make it on to the pages of tomorrows chip paper. We have been accepted on to Hidden Britain and the first meeting was extremely well attended by reps from all parts of Hertford community life. I now also have an archaeologist on board. The Town Council are working on a statement that reflects Hertford's association with the Knights Templar. This is all good news. Unfortunately a bit too late to really cash in on the film Amazing Grace which has a minor character Thomas Clarkson whose memorial is on Wadesmill Hill. You can read all about it on my webpage http://www.johnbarber.com/clarkson.html. But this is the essence of the Hidden Britain campaign - to get a hook to get people into Hertford and possibly use the county town as a base from which to explore not just buildings/bars/shops etc in the town itself but the countryside around it. So we have focused heavily on the River Lea as well. If anyone out there belongs to a group that thinks the campaign can help them or possibly they can support the campiagn be pleased to hear from you through the usual channels. We have a small working group to direct the campaign and new active members on that are especially welcome.
Reply ID 48445
Just as a comparison, those of you who have been to Whitby will know what the Dracula story has done for the town's tourism - it's hard to get accommodation there, especially at the special themed weekends you need to book months and months in advance. I appreciate this is a single example, and I'd hate to see 'theme park' Hertford, but it might be worth looking into because people often like to link a story to a place. The reason for resurrecting this old thread, however, is that I'm looking for recommendations for 'showing people around' when they come to visit, but I'll start a new thread for that.
Reply ID 48485
Whitby features prominently in Dracula (one of my favourite novels). Does anybody know if Hertford is featured in any novels?
Reply ID 48499
Another example of a small town which manages to draw huge crowds - Matlock Bath and the famous Matlock illuminations. A few animated lghts stretched across a river, a small parade of illuminated little boats, a riverside funfair and firework display. Brings thousands into Matlock every year.
Reply ID 48536
'Tis just a few miles from where I originate, and yes - it is also a very popular place for bikers! In fact I thought it was better known for its bikers than its illuminations, but maybe that's just the people I hang out with [:D] I don't know if Hertford is featured in any novels.
Reply ID 48539
Not a novel as such, but the autobiographical "This Time Next Week" by Leslie Thomas (Author of "The Virgin Soldiers") makes reference to the time he spent at Goldings during the Second World War. At that time it was a Dr Barnado's School.
Reply ID 48540
Pride & Prejudice by Jane Austen - or one of her novels if not that one - features a ball or dance at Shire Hall.
Reply ID 48547
Generally, it's thought that the obstacle to periodic tourist attractions is the lack of someone to organise them. However, many towns have found that if they have the foresight to be open to activities, someone will step up. Matlock only has to be open to biker events for them to occur. The annual Baldock MAG rally is another example. By being open minded towards bikers, the high street is packed every year with thousands of money-spending, well-behaved, leather clad, tattooed, baldies and even more families who come to marvel at the exotic machinery on display. What springs to mind in Hertford though, is punts (no sniggering at the back), as in Cambridge. Many people drive to Cambridge in the season and queue for the opportunity of messing about on the river. The punts are operated by private enterprise who rent their riverside base. With our wealth of bars and hotels, we have the infrastructure to cash in, if not the impressive architecture.
Reply ID 48556
You're dead right, shunt - the river could and should be Hertford's major draw. Punting would be superb, although there's a bit of a difference between punt past a) a revered seat of learning, respected for hundreds of years, and b) the woolpack [:D]
Reply ID 48563
There are several challenges to making punting viable and attractive. The extension into Castle Grounds would need to happen and a way to pass Hertford Lock onto the Meads would have to be devised, possibly involving staffing. The boat station would ideally be in Castle grounds or opposite the Old Barge and would have to be at a peppercorn rent to make it viable as a seasonal business. In short, it would have to echo the Cambridge model in that it would be seen as an asset to the town's prosperity, provided by small private enterprise.
Reply ID 48566
Hertford Film Festival has a certain ring of interest , well the name does anyway... ;-) Youve got to ask really, if somebody say's "Why do you live in Hertford ?" what your reply is, is that not the starting point ? Plenty of open spaces , good walks and decent places to eat and drink.Nothing will work without imagination , and, dare I say it, marketing.
Reply ID 48568
quote:By being open-minded towards goths, Whitby is packed several times a year with thousands of money-spending, well-behaved, leather-clad, tattooed, baldies and people with wild hair extensions, and even more families who come to marvel at the exotic people on display [8D] [:D] Somehow I'm not sure that Hertford Gothic Weekend cuts the mustard. Hertford Film Festival - how easy would it be to do this annually, say, as opposed to the (I assume) regular film event you suggested in the 'Cinemaa Cinemaaa!' thread?
Originally posted by shunt
By being open minded towards bikers, the high street is packed every year with thousands of money-spending, well-behaved, leather clad, tattooed, baldies and even more families who come to marvel at the exotic machinery on display.
Reply ID 48583
I suspect an annual event would be a bit more attractive to sponsors ?Saying that, there are not enough boutique hotels yet to drag the Soho crowd up here. Is it not the Bram Stoker link that attracts the Goths to Whitby (and the finest Fish & Chip shop in the land)?
Reply ID 48604
quote:How about a gay pride march?!
Originally posted by shunt leather clad, tattooed, baldies
Reply ID 48607
We could go really specialist - goth bikers with unconventional orientations who like watching arty films? [:D]
Reply ID 48610
Yes yes yes!!! Sell the sizzle not the sausage!
Reply ID 48615
sure would suit you aubend
Reply ID 48631
How about an annual custard pie fight with a minimum of 100 throwers per side ? Im sure we could associate it with some historical relevance .
Reply ID 48667
quote:Yes, I'm sure I read somewhere that there used to be 2 or 3 custard wells on Hartham Common. It was a long time ago though. Hertford's only known custard diviner, Mr.Bird, died some years ago.
Originally posted by warren_peace
How about an annual custard pie fight with a minimum of 100 throwers per side ? Im sure we could associate it with some historical relevance .
Reply ID 48669
quote:Mr Bird passed the ailing business on to his son and though it looked solid for a while, junior was unable to make enough of an impact to prevent the assets being liquified. Eventually it just slipped through his fingers. "That's the problem with non-newtonian liquids" Mr Bird said in an interview with Pudding Toppings Monthly......
Originally posted by nora battyquote:Yes, I'm sure I read somewhere that there used to be 2 or 3 custard wells on Hartham Common. It was a long time ago though. Hertford's only known custard diviner, Mr.Bird, died some years ago.
Originally posted by warren_peace
How about an annual custard pie fight with a minimum of 100 throwers per side ? Im sure we could associate it with some historical relevance .
Reply ID 48670
Was he left with egg on his face?
Reply ID 48671
Mr Bird's Egyptian mother was better in business than his father. When the orphaned son took over his father's ailing business, it just didn't Mut the Custard. Mr Bird continually tried to add more corporate feathers to his cap but his business skills were, in reality, nothing short of sloppy.
Reply ID 48674
Of course this all led to the Hertford founders ill fated colonisation of America with the often mis spelled "Custards last stand" where 7 would be prospectors attempted to appease the locals with egg tarts.
Reply ID 48676
They were arrested soon after and taken into custardy...
Reply ID 48677
quote:That is what he claimed it was.
Originally posted by nora batty
Was he left with egg on his face?
Reply ID 48679
Is it Friday already???
Reply ID 62717
quote:So now it's known as SRHQ 4.2 well at least it has some purpose. [:)][:)] http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=672 Wow, I found this in the archives of Hertford on line sorry I did not know this has already been discussed. Emma Full Member 124 Posts Posted - 17 Oct 2004 : 21:45:35 Show Profile I worked at the Benefits agency at Soveriegn House about five years ago and they kept a lot of leaflets in part of the tunnels. There is an entrance from within Sovereign House and also one from the outside, past that door there is a locked cage-like door. I went three levels deep and it was pretty scary when you are on your own! I was told it was part of a supposed nuclear shelter built in the sixties which led to County Hall one way and then all the way through the town the other way(under the Castle all the way to Waitrose I heard). Until a few years ago there was 200 beds and a supply of tinned food for 200 people for 2 years (please note this stuff is what I was told and may not be fact) This was taken out when some bright spark realised that it would not be suitable for a nuclear attack. Sovereign House was supposedly built in the sixties as a cover for these tunnels and is apparently built in such a way that it can collapse upon itself if was needed. One of the men I worked with said that the tunnel was currently blocked off when you got to a certain point but only with breezeblocks so they would not be hard to remove! This was because of it leading to certain bank vaults. I remember my mum telling me there was bank vaults under the town when I was younger. Anyway, back to the tunnels - There were pictures on the walls of celebrities like Elton John and stuff, all very bizarre. There were alot of signs saying something like "Silence during Quiet Hours" whatever that means? I also have it on good authority that there are definitely tunnels under County Hall. I really hope that these tunnels do get investigated in full as it would be great to know exactly what is in them.
Originally posted by Ray_by_the_Beane
What ever happened to the abandoned Regional Seat of Government under Sovereign House? Wasn't there some talk of making that a tourist venue?
Reply ID 62720
To quote from 'War Plan UK, the secret truth about Britain's Civil Defence. Duncan Campbell. 1980' Only three SRHQ bunkers are of recent construction- Basingstoke, (SRHQ62), Herford (SRHQ42) and Southport (SRHQ10). Each has the same rough design, a two-storey concrete basement below government office blocks built in the late 1960s. Walls are 20-30 inches thick (50-75cm) and each has its own borehole for water. Some one hundred and fifty thousand gallons of water are also stored in permanent tanks, and a generator room can power all the SRHQ's equipment for a month, with a ten thousand gallon fuel reserve. Two sets of filters are fitted to the air-conditioning plant, one for peacetime exercise use, and the second for war. If the level of fallout dust becomes too high, air conditioning can be switched to internal circulation for a period. The bunkers were designed to have a radiation 'protection factor' of about 400, and to resist blast pressure of 1.5psi. In contrast, the average house is unlikely, after attack, to offer a protective factor better thab 5-10.