Topic ID 2210
Well Done! What for? The new bus shelter at the top of Gallows Hill, designed to keep people dry when it rains and protected from the wind, has been up less than 2 weeks. 'What about it?' you may ask. It does neither of the things it is supposed to do, due to the idiotic and mindless who decide that this is perfect for vandalising. Do they think about the toddlers, the elderly and the dogs being walked who have to try to pick their way through the shattered glass fragments? No! Do they think about the poor guys who have to keep coming out to repair said shelter and clear up the glass? No! Do they think about the cost of repairs and who has to pay? No! Do they think about what they are doing? No! Do they Think? NO! I'd like to thank the morons who perpetrated this idiocy, but someone would have to read it to them!
Reply ID 30296
quote:I contacted the Council the other day to find out how much this vandalism costs us to clear and repair/replace. You'd be staggered at the monetary amount.
Originally posted by Tazz
Well Done! What for? The new bus shelter at the top of Gallows Hill, designed to keep people dry when it rains and protected from the wind, has been up less than 2 weeks. 'What about it?' you may ask. It does neither of the things it is supposed to do, due to the idiotic and mindless who decide that this is perfect for vandalising. Do they think about the toddlers, the elderly and the dogs being walked who have to try to pick their way through the shattered glass fragments? No! Do they think about the poor guys who have to keep coming out to repair said shelter and clear up the glass? No! Do they think about the cost of repairs and who has to pay? No! Do they think about what they are doing? No! Do they Think? NO! I'd like to thank the morons who perpetrated this idiocy, but someone would have to read it to them!
Reply ID 30297
What is the cost, just out of interest
Reply ID 30310
Don't call them morons Tazz - they ain't that bright.
Reply ID 30313
quote:Whole bus shelter = £3k Replace perspex (whole) - £2187 Replace perspex (single panel) - £762 Clearance of debris - upwards of £85 The bus shelter or Adshels as they are now known are very expensive, both to the advertiser, and us.
Originally posted by Tazz
What is the cost, just out of interest
Reply ID 30314
quote:And we are all paying for it. Culling is the only option (Missing you Del) Admin - not personal, that would be Del's reaction[:o)]
Originally posted by James007quote:Whole bus shelter = £3k Replace perspex (whole) - £2187 Replace perspex (single panel) - £762 Clearance of debris - upwards of £85 The bus shelter or Adshels as they are now known are very expensive, both to the advertiser, and us.
Originally posted by Tazz
What is the cost, just out of interest
Reply ID 30320
That's shocking. Sadly, however, it's not unusual to see shattered bus shelters these days. It must cost an absolute fortune over the years.
Reply ID 30323
quote:Not new. The bus shelter in my genteel home village had a history of vandalism dating from the war onwards, but being of brick and oak construction, the damage only provided a history of miss-spent youth through the ages.
Originally posted by SallyB
That's shocking. Sadly, however, it's not unusual to see shattered bus shelters these days. It must cost an absolute fortune over the years.
Reply ID 30328
The bus shelter by the houses at the bottom of the hill in Essendon was burned to the ground a few months ago.
Reply ID 30352
There was a report recently that Britain has the most CCTV cameras in Europe? Why can't the authorities place some of them in bus shelters to catch these mindless hooligans in the act? The sight of broken Perspex is discouraging for passengers travelling late at night.
Reply ID 30356
The cameras would be the first to be targeted.
Reply ID 30365
Even when they are caught, they get away with it.
Reply ID 30366
Whilst not in any way wishing to condone the actions of these "people" (used in the loosest possible sense), surely it's not beyond the capabilities of the powers that be to install bus shelters with unbreakable perspex/glass?
Reply ID 30368
Whilst not in any way wishing to condone the actions of these "people" (used in the loosest possible sense), surely it's not beyond the capabilities of the powers that be to install bus shelters with unbreakable perspex/glass? I think there are a number of issues all rolled in to this one. 1 – The relative ease by which damage may be caused to these modern shelters; 2 – The speed at which significant levels of damage can be inflicted enabling the vandals to complete their work quickly and extricate themselves from the scene of their crime; 3 – The ongoing costs both in real (£) terms and 4 - The opportunity cost to the customer who must endure a reduced shelter service before remedial work can be financed and sanctioned. It seems that modern bus shelters are susceptible to criminal damage in much the same way that new telephone boxes are easily and quickly vandalised by these degenerate ingrates. Having read previous posts, I wonder whether an initial, increased investment in a more robust structure, for example, possibly brick, would provide a better medium / longer term rate of return. Clearly, this is a problem that will not go away without further, methodical, planned intervention. The replacement costs will also increase over time in line with the market raw material and installation / planned maintenance cost increases. The use of localised, covert, miniature CC/TV similar to the devices now deployed in most buses might also help to reduce ongoing issues by identifying the culprits and enabling the legal system to deal with effectively.
Reply ID 30369
Since we have more surveillance than any country in the world and allegedly the worse behaved youth, Britain's "1984" tactics are plainly misguided. Every camera installed is a danger to our democracy and an affront to human dignity. Attitudes are no longer taught by example but limits enforced with signs, electronics and ASBO's. Just more indignity to fight against, more to hate, more to feel aggrieved about. Is isn't just the kids either. Just look the effect extreme traffic control is having on the selfishness of modern drivers.
Reply ID 30383
Why not just 'tag' everybody at birth?
Reply ID 30384
quote:Are you volunteering?
Originally posted by Tazz
Why not just 'tag' everybody at birth?
Reply ID 30385
Volunteering to be tagged?
Reply ID 30393
Since we have more surveillance than any country in the world and allegedly the worse behaved youth, Britain's "1984" tactics are plainly misguided. Every camera installed is a danger to our democracy and an affront to human dignity. Attitudes are no longer taught by example but limits enforced with signs, electronics and ASBO's. Just more indignity to fight against, more to hate, more to feel aggrieved about. Is isn't just the kids either. Just look the effect extreme traffic control is having on the selfishness of modern drivers. shunt - Hmmm... Clearly, I take your point. I'm not in favour of invasive techniques either but this is a very real problem and, certainly from feedback here and elsewhere, it's getting worse, not better. There is a balance to be achieved between protecting the public and public property and maintaining individual freedom. The bus camera programme that I mentioned is not new. It has been tried in other parts of the country where frequent vandal damage is evident. Take a look at this link for one example. http://www.newswales.co.uk/?section=Transport&F=1&id=7359 id="red"> Until some form of control is effectively established, we will all continue to pay the cost either directly through successive rate increases and / or indirectly through the receipt of reduced services which, I should add, we are paying quite heavily for in the first place.
Reply ID 30396
Example:- Whilst waiting for a train, "Security" aproached a young man photographing a friend with his mobile and quite aggressively asked, "You're not taking photos, are you? If you are, we'll have to confiscate your phone". Ten seconds later there was an anouncement over the tannoy to inform customers that the station was covered by TV monitoring and recorded. Hence, my image, taken without my permission is held by...........? Presumably the same people hold the picture of the young man's girlfriend, which he was denied. If I were that young man, I'd feel aggreived that I couldn't take a commemorative picture of my smiling girl, whereas unknown security staff are probably discussing the contours of her tight sweater over a cup of tea.
Reply ID 30397
Tagging...hmmmmmm..... On occasion in the past, one or two of the 'misunderstood little cherbubs' where I work have been tagged. One darling in particular wore her tag as a badge of 'Spect. She habitually ignored her curfew, choosing instead to stay out late and even abscond on many occasions. You may think this would cause the tagging company to enquire as to her whereabouts, etc via the very expensive piece of equipment and phone line that were installed in my office! No, that's not the case. The only time the company ever queried the effectiveness of the tag was if the handset of the very expensive piece of equipment was accidentally knocked off its cradle during office hours - at which point I would get a very agitated and somewhat rude call from the company. The Courts were provided with the details regarding the tag at her next appearance before them for the usual - assault/theft etc (she had a season ticket) and she would receive her usual slap on the back of her leg, finger wagging and tut-tut punishment. With regard to the appalling and disgusting damage to the bus shelter, the morons (an insult to any self-respecting moron but this forum prohibits me from using certain words beginning with f and c) who did this, were: "'aving a larf, 'avin a good time and getting some 'spect" They don't care about the cost, they don't care about the inconvenience, they don't care about anything or anyone beyond the confines of their limited ability to amuse themselves. Sadly, neither do their parents.
Reply ID 30400
Fine the parents then. It'd soon stop. Naa, maybe it wouldn't.
Reply ID 30403
We should take a leaf out of Singapore's Book. There vandals etc are dealt with harshly!.
Reply ID 30407
quote:Absolutley [}:)]
Originally posted by spitfire
We should take a leaf out of Singapore's Book. There vandals etc are dealt with harshly!.
Reply ID 30497
I couldn't agree more with the Singapore solution. Unfortunately in this country, our young people have 'rights,' and these rights are enforced by any number of agencies: Voice, CSCI, NCH etc ad infinitum ad nauseum. The things that are missing from them being made so very well aware of their rights, is being made aware the need to earn the rights, the responsibility of rights and the consequences of abusing the rights. So when you or I and all the other people of all ages, backgrounds, political and religious persuasions get agitated by the behaviour of some young people, we must remember that their right to behave the way they do, sometimes outweighs the rights of the rest of us not to have to put up with their behaviour. Other than that I am mostly happy in my job! Some of the time. Not sure if I have the right to be happy though? [:0]
Reply ID 30509
quote:Dear FW. You do have the right to be happy in your job, in some occupations it's almost feasible, so if it comes naturally in yours well done. At the risk of being contradicted by other forum members, (hey what the heck I'd defend anyone's right to contradict) would a radical new idea have an effect on the vandalism? Uniformed officers on the beat? Await the flood....
Originally posted by Fish Wife
I couldn't agree more with the Singapore solution. Unfortunately in this country, our young people have 'rights,' and these rights are enforced by any number of agencies: Voice, CSCI, NCH etc ad infinitum ad nauseum. The things that are missing from them being made so very well aware of their rights, is being made aware the need to earn the rights, the responsibility of rights and the consequences of abusing the rights. So when you or I and all the other people of all ages, backgrounds, political and religious persuasions get agitated by the behaviour of some young people, we must remember that their right to behave the way they do, sometimes outweighs the rights of the rest of us not to have to put up with their behaviour. Other than that I am mostly happy in my job! Some of the time. Not sure if I have the right to be happy though? [:0]
Reply ID 30518
quote:Singapore is a rather different society, with different historic social rules and background. Utopia, it is not! Just ask a P.o.W. How about we take away all those rights FW? You'd be fine as long as everybody treated you fairly for the rest of your life. Unfortunately, without your rights they'd be unlikely to. Even with them, you may not vandalise a bus shelter. No-one of any age may within the law, so I'm not quite sure how advocating the removal of human rights and the physical mutilation of one age group is helpful. How different do we want Britain to be? We've already lost free speech, the right to privacy, anonymity and many other attributes which two world wars were aleged to be about, what's next?
Originally posted by Fish Wife
I couldn't agree more with the Singapore solution. Unfortunately in this country, our young people have 'rights,' and these rights are enforced by any number of agencies: Voice, CSCI, NCH etc ad infinitum ad nauseum. The things that are missing from them being made so very well aware of their rights, is being made aware the need to earn the rights, the responsibility of rights and the consequences of abusing the rights. So when you or I and all the other people of all ages, backgrounds, political and religious persuasions get agitated by the behaviour of some young people, we must remember that their right to behave the way they do, sometimes outweighs the rights of the rest of us not to have to put up with their behaviour. Other than that I am mostly happy in my job! Some of the time. Not sure if I have the right to be happy though? [:0]
Reply ID 30594
quote:I'm not aware that I was extolling the virtues of Singapore as a Utopian Societ! Utopia will never exist. And as for asking a PoW about Singapore - I thought most of those problems were caused by the Japanese invasion and treatment of PoWs....but anyway..... Without going into too much detail about where I work, or what I do, I have seen on a daily basis the unrelenting behaviour of some young people who loudly proclaim their rights to be abusive, their rights to vandalise the environment where I work and their rights to lash out at the people who work there. I then have the joy and pleasure of organising the repair and replacement costs at a very heavy cost to the local community. We cannot use any simple means to curtail this behaviour, e.g. retain pocket money, refuse to replace damaged items like TV sets etc. We have in the past been talked out of pressing charges when we've been assaulted so as not to criminalise the young people - who are behaving like criminals. We have to stand there and take the abuse. Have you ever had to endure the onslaught of a 15yr old boy who could keep up a non-stop torrent of utterly disgusting, filthy language and abuse for as long as it took to get his own way - sometimes 3 hours....EVERY DAY? Those staff that have pressed charges in the hopes of something being done to stop this behaviour have seen the courts ham-strung by limitations that mean a minimal fine is put in place - which we pay - you, me and everyone else on this forum, in this town, in this County. So when I talk about earning rights, it means making plain the outcome of unacceptable behaviour, be it the retention of pocket money, the stopping of activities or paying towards wilful damage - in much the same way that you or I would if we behaved in this way. It means putting the victims first and not always trying to understand the reasons why Little Johnny was bored.......
Originally posted by shuntquote:Singapore is a rather different society, with different historic social rules and background. Utopia, it is not! Just ask a P.o.W. How about we take away all those rights FW? You'd be fine as long as everybody treated you fairly for the rest of your life. Unfortunately, without your rights they'd be unlikely to. Even with them, you may not vandalise a bus shelter. No-one of any age may within the law, so I'm not quite sure how advocating the removal of human rights and the physical mutilation of one age group is helpful. How different do we want Britain to be? We've already lost free speech, the right to privacy, anonymity and many other attributes which two world wars were aleged to be about, what's next?
Originally posted by Fish Wife
I couldn't agree more with the Singapore solution. Unfortunately in this country, our young people have 'rights,' and these rights are enforced by any number of agencies: Voice, CSCI, NCH etc ad infinitum ad nauseum. The things that are missing from them being made so very well aware of their rights, is being made aware the need to earn the rights, the responsibility of rights and the consequences of abusing the rights. So when you or I and all the other people of all ages, backgrounds, political and religious persuasions get agitated by the behaviour of some young people, we must remember that their right to behave the way they do, sometimes outweighs the rights of the rest of us not to have to put up with their behaviour. Other than that I am mostly happy in my job! Some of the time. Not sure if I have the right to be happy though? [:0]
Reply ID 30628
I'll go with that last post FW and thoroughly agree that the tried and trusted disciplinary methods still have the best chance, without us having to change all society in response to a few behaviourally abnormal members. I believe that in giving a firm response to unreasonable behaviour, we must also guard against demonstrating extreme attitudes by our example. Statistically, few teen offenders, re-offend past 22 years of age. In dealing with the hardcore which do, we must guard against the possibility that we might create an attitude of them and us which continues into adulthood. This often leads to what seems a too cautious response in law. That said, I have a feeling I know the organisation which you work for and you have my complete admiration and I completely understand how your work can, at times, feel unsupported externally. It is unfortunate that there are some circumstances where traditional methods, such as a parent might use, cannot be safely applied.
Reply ID 30637
quote:Step 1 - parents? Step 2 - How about a good counsellor system? Step 3 - Prison? If that is how they treat you FW, bang on about it to your local MP. There is a local election next year, 2007 (don't listen to Steve please, he got it wrong). I think this forum needs a 'live' Hertford unionist, supported by all, to get these messages across, rather than be an extension of the tabloid pap called the Mercury.
Originally posted by Fish Wifequote:I'm not aware that I was extolling the virtues of Singapore as a Utopian Societ! Utopia will never exist. And as for asking a PoW about Singapore - I thought most of those problems were caused by the Japanese invasion and treatment of PoWs....but anyway..... Without going into too much detail about where I work, or what I do, I have seen on a daily basis the unrelenting behaviour of some young people who loudly proclaim their rights to be abusive, their rights to vandalise the environment where I work and their rights to lash out at the people who work there. I then have the joy and pleasure of organising the repair and replacement costs at a very heavy cost to the local community. We cannot use any simple means to curtail this behaviour, e.g. retain pocket money, refuse to replace damaged items like TV sets etc. We have in the past been talked out of pressing charges when we've been assaulted so as not to criminalise the young people - who are behaving like criminals. We have to stand there and take the abuse. Have you ever had to endure the onslaught of a 15yr old boy who could keep up a non-stop torrent of utterly disgusting, filthy language and abuse for as long as it took to get his own way - sometimes 3 hours....EVERY DAY? Those staff that have pressed charges in the hopes of something being done to stop this behaviour have seen the courts ham-strung by limitations that mean a minimal fine is put in place - which we pay - you, me and everyone else on this forum, in this town, in this County. So when I talk about earning rights, it means making plain the outcome of unacceptable behaviour, be it the retention of pocket money, the stopping of activities or paying towards wilful damage - in much the same way that you or I would if we behaved in this way. It means putting the victims first and not always trying to understand the reasons why Little Johnny was bored.......
Originally posted by shuntquote:Singapore is a rather different society, with different historic social rules and background. Utopia, it is not! Just ask a P.o.W. How about we take away all those rights FW? You'd be fine as long as everybody treated you fairly for the rest of your life. Unfortunately, without your rights they'd be unlikely to. Even with them, you may not vandalise a bus shelter. No-one of any age may within the law, so I'm not quite sure how advocating the removal of human rights and the physical mutilation of one age group is helpful. How different do we want Britain to be? We've already lost free speech, the right to privacy, anonymity and many other attributes which two world wars were aleged to be about, what's next?
Originally posted by Fish Wife
I couldn't agree more with the Singapore solution. Unfortunately in this country, our young people have 'rights,' and these rights are enforced by any number of agencies: Voice, CSCI, NCH etc ad infinitum ad nauseum. The things that are missing from them being made so very well aware of their rights, is being made aware the need to earn the rights, the responsibility of rights and the consequences of abusing the rights. So when you or I and all the other people of all ages, backgrounds, political and religious persuasions get agitated by the behaviour of some young people, we must remember that their right to behave the way they do, sometimes outweighs the rights of the rest of us not to have to put up with their behaviour. Other than that I am mostly happy in my job! Some of the time. Not sure if I have the right to be happy though? [:0]
Reply ID 30647
quote:Excuse me? Would you like to qualify that remark?
Originally posted by James007
If that is how they treat you FW, bang on about it to your local MP. There is a local election next year, 2007 (don't listen to Steve please, he got it wrong).
Reply ID 30651
quote:There might even be a General Election next year!
Originally posted by James007 There is a local election next year, 2007
Reply ID 30978
Just passed the bus shelter that started all this. All the windows have now been replaced - but how long will they last? But what about the clean-up? There are bits off glass/perspex all around the shelter. Are the council saving money by not clearing up?
Reply ID 30981
Bus shelters these days are a way of getting a lucrative advertising platform where permission for a hoarding would be refused. While this facility is out of action, there is no revenue, hence getting that part up and running is likely to be the priority. It may be that the shelter repair and maintenance is covered by someone like Adshel, whereas cleaning up is public works.