Topic ID 2159
Latest Planning Application. Land off, Marshgate Drive, Hertford, HERTS Demolition of light industrial buildings and construction of 192 new residential units with covered car parking and external landscaping. [url="http://e-services.eastherts.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=3/06/2096/FP&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href='wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=42877%26StartIndex=1%26SortOrder=APNID:asc%26DispResultsAs=wphappsresweek1%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E'%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E"]View Application[/url]
Reply ID 29216
Which takes the total number of new homes served by Mill Road and adjoining streets to 440. 112 at Riviere 112 on the adjacent corner to be built by Flowertrail 192 as above 20 new homes on the Dolphin car park 4 new flats in The Dolphin PLUS the new business park planned for the old tar works. When there was a public consultation on the area a number of years ago, plans for 500 homes were abandoned because the access issues couldn't be resolved. So how come the piecemeal development of a similar number of homes has avoided this? FWIW the applicant has recently had an application refused by Broxbourne for 55 new homes on account of "failing to make adequate provision for affordable housing" and "inadequate junction design, visibility and internal servicing and inadequate parking provision"
Reply ID 29220
Nice new homes, or a shabby old industrial site. I know what I would prefer to see along side that stretch of the river.
Reply ID 29224
Absolutely right, Victor! It will look much better along there once it is built. I do wonder how our infrastructure is going to cope though - getting to and from Tescos, just to take one example, is going to be fun.
Reply ID 29225
There must already be a reasonable amount of traffic that uses that road and junction from all of the units that are going, or are they all unused units?
Reply ID 29229
quote:I think the traffic generated by 440 homes is a little more than the industrial units that will be lost! Plus, as I mentioned there are many more business units going up on the old tar works. And then there's the question of the old gas works that will inevitably be used for housing (around 200 would be my guess). Mill Road already has congestion problems before these developments take place. At what point is the council going to address the fact that Mill Road has a finite capacity.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
There must already be a reasonable amount of traffic that uses that road and junction from all of the units that are going, or are they all unused units?
Reply ID 29230
I think its called regeneration. Bypass Hertford, traffic problem solved.
Reply ID 29231
Didn't they look at creating access to Mead Lane from Rowley's Road,when they tried to develop some of the land before?
Reply ID 29232
Several of the local mead lane businesses are objecting to the planning permission being sort for more industrial units. The roads can now a nightmare in rush hour.
Reply ID 29234
quote:Not sure how that solves the problem of congestion on Mill Road
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
I think its called regeneration. Bypass Hertford, traffic problem solved.
Reply ID 29236
Perhaps they could reinstate some railway sidings to the industrial units and try and persuade them to use rail transport instead of lorries [:)]
Reply ID 29238
quote:Have to agree - it's pretty dire at the moment. More trade to the town without destruction of the usual sites used.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Nice new homes, or a shabby old industrial site. I know what I would prefer to see along side that stretch of the river.
Reply ID 29240
If approved, I hope it brings in much needed affordable housing.
Reply ID 29251
i'm sure i saw on the environmental agency website that all this area is floodplain?
Reply ID 29253
quote:looking at http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/subjects/flood/?lang=_e looks like some of the area may be
Originally posted by wingnut
i'm sure i saw on the environmental agency website that all this area is floodplain?
Reply ID 29261
When did a flat become a 'residential unit'?
Reply ID 29295
this sounds like excellent news to me. any houses being built on industrial land has to be a good thing - then when the government comes in with it's targets we can say hang on, we've already done 400 of those...
Reply ID 29340
This is all well and good, but any conversion of industrial to residential means a loss of jobs, and where are all these people going to work and more to the point park.
Reply ID 29353
quote:Are the industrial premises currently occupied?
Originally posted by Hato
This is all well and good, but any conversion of industrial to residential means a loss of jobs, and where are all these people going to work and more to the point park.
Reply ID 29420
thats a very good question, there's a huge number of empty industrial units in and around hertfordshire. The estate where enterprise car rental is is half empty for a start..
Reply ID 29428
quote:The big difference is that per square metre you get more people for residential developments then you do for business use. I would guess that the size of companies in this area have probably a dozen or so employees, where as if it were residential units on the same plot would probably generate 4 or 4 times as many people and cars.
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:Are the industrial premises currently occupied?
Originally posted by Hato
This is all well and good, but any conversion of industrial to residential means a loss of jobs, and where are all these people going to work and more to the point park.
Reply ID 29440
Ok i've got a great idea! why dont we just do NOTHING. Leave the entire town alone, dont move forward, just stand still. leave the old unused industrial units to rot! Dont employ any builders, plumbers, carpenters or electricians. Then all of those who complain about building in Hertford will be satisfied! They will however, have to realise that very shortly no-one new will come to the town, No new companies will come to the town, and sooner rather than later, we will be able to throw up a barbed wire fence right around the outside of the town boundries, and exclude anyone who may want to improve our environment and living standards!!! ok rant over ...sorry!
Reply ID 29442
quote:Calm down Mick [:)] The issue at stake is the controlled expansion of the town. There needs to be a strategy - well designed housing sympathetic to the character of the town, supported by an adequate infrastructure.
Originally posted by Mad Mick
Ok i've got a great idea! why dont we just do NOTHING. Leave the entire town alone, dont move forward, just stand still. leave the old unused industrial units to rot! Dont employ any builders, plumbers, carpenters or electricians. Then all of those who complain about building in Hertford will be satisfied! They will however, have to realise that very shortly no-one new will come to the town, No new companies will come to the town, and sooner rather than later, we will be able to throw up a barbed wire fence right around the outside of the town boundries, and exclude anyone who may want to improve our environment and living standards!!! ok rant over ...sorry!
Reply ID 29445
Yes i know, I am calm now, I havnt been on for a while and it winds me up, when i read a new (excellent) thread, and there is a lot of Nay Saying but no reasonable suggestions as to what SHOULD or COULD be done!
Reply ID 29502
quote:Only if the industrial land is in use, if it is zoned industrial but unused there is no job loss, but a gain in residential units being built in the existing built up area rather than on greenfield sites
Originally posted by Hato
This is all well and good, but any conversion of industrial to residential means a loss of jobs, and where are all these people going to work and more to the point park.
Reply ID 29516
quote:The point I was trying to get across was that converting industrial sites (whether in use or not) prevents employment being created in the future, - period. They can cram more people into residential areas then they do employ people in similar sized industrial areas. For those who have experienced the "Mead Lane /Mill Road" rush hour it will just desend into chaos UNLESS the transport infrastructure is resolved. It wasn't that long ago that there was talk of reducing the number of trains at HE, which would probably result in the "new" residents using cars. I have no problem with Hertford developing / evolving, but I do have an issue with over development and little thought being given to the long term impact on the rest of the town
Originally posted by Andrewquote:Only if the industrial land is in use, if it is zoned industrial but unused there is no job loss, but a gain in residential units being built in the existing built up area rather than on greenfield sites
Originally posted by Hato
This is all well and good, but any conversion of industrial to residential means a loss of jobs, and where are all these people going to work and more to the point park.
Reply ID 29520
quote:Exactly! No more Toothbrush Towers please. What I'm against is poorly designed high-density housing that ignores the character of the town and ignores the impact on the infrastructure.
Originally posted by Hato
I have no problem with Hertford developing / evolving, but I do have an issue with over development and little thought being given to the long term impact on the rest of the town
Reply ID 29525
quote:Hear, hear. All this talk of "affordable housing" makes me want to puke. Everyone I know is looking for a bigger house in Hertford, not a filing cabinet flat. There is a shortage of decent family sized homes in Hertford and as a result this type of house is very over priced and creates a bottle neck because the existing smaller properties are not being freed up. We need a good mix of properties and I think all the new stuff that is being built only caters for the newly-weds-nearly-deads-and state-feds.
Originally posted by Steve Exactly! No more Toothbrush Towers please. What I'm against is poorly designed high-density housing that ignores the character of the town and ignores the impact on the infrastructure.
Reply ID 29528
quote:Great end-quote, I like it. The government sets the rules on housing though, not, I repeat, not, the local planners. I saw the submitted prelim plans today at EHC and the site looks immense. I think local housing concerns is fast becoming a serious election platform for a lot of voters, accompanied by immigration issues which, by default are becoming linked more and more.
Originally posted by nora battyquote:Hear, hear. All this talk of "affordable housing" makes me want to puke. Everyone I know is looking for a bigger house in Hertford, not a filing cabinet flat. There is a shortage of decent family sized homes in Hertford and as a result this type of house is very over priced and creates a bottle neck because the existing smaller properties are not being freed up. We need a good mix of properties and I think all the new stuff that is being built only caters for the newly-weds-nearly-deads-and state-feds.
Originally posted by Steve Exactly! No more Toothbrush Towers please. What I'm against is poorly designed high-density housing that ignores the character of the town and ignores the impact on the infrastructure.
Reply ID 29745
quote:I'm sorry have I missed something here? The Reason TBT (as it is now known) was built the way it has been was to conform to the original style of the remaining Addis Buildings now occupied by The Mercury and Riversmead Housing Assoc. Likewise Focus, when it opened in 1991, also had to 'conform' with this style as evidenced by its 'curved' window. It is a shame that Cannon's Gym didn't have to adhere to the sympathetic style. A redbrick block that lacks any finesse shows the lack of planning control that must have been in force when the Gasgoyne Way carpark was allowed to be built! It is very easy to knock a new development, but there is affordable housing on TBT, as well as private flats and houses. The design is sympathetic to Hertford's past and overall fairly appealing. There will also be affordable housing on The Riviera development - especially as Higgins' specialises in local authority housing. It is not overly modern (viz The Ebe the Riviera) but in any case, occupied housing is vastly more appealing to the eye and the economy than empty retail units. We don't want a ghostown. Newcomers could bolster a genuinely flagging daytime economy - surely this should be encouraged? Perhaps the view from a seven bedroom mansion is different, but not everyone can afford one of those!
Originally posted by Stevequote:Exactly! No more Toothbrush Towers please. What I'm against is poorly designed high-density housing that ignores the character of the town and ignores the impact on the infrastructure.
Originally posted by Hato
I have no problem with Hertford developing / evolving, but I do have an issue with over development and little thought being given to the long term impact on the rest of the town
Reply ID 29746
I own two Companies in Mead Lane and as soon as my lease is up in 2 years, I'm moving them to Ware or Welwyn. The whole access to Hertford industrial area has become a joke. The council and the police seem to do nothing about the constant blockages down there. The sad thing is, I know at least 10 other Companies around me that feel the same. I like the idea of living and working in Hertford, but the working element is becoming a nightmare.
Reply ID 29749
quote:Sorry to disagree but TBT has failed dismally if it aimed to ape the Addis building - lip-service is the best it has to offer. It is a typical high-density Barratt-built homogenous development with no character and more akin to a north London council estate. Why anyone would choose to live there is a mystery to me. As for "design sympathetic to Hertford's past", well, I can't see it. Riviere too, with it's modern approach is totally out of character with the town, especially given it's position adjacent to a Grade One listed building. As for the comment about TBT: "the design is sympathetic to Hertford's past and overall fairly appealing". Er, no it's not. Why do you think it's called Toothbrush Towers? It's a derogatory comment. Also notable is the fact that Barratt couldn't even be bothered with a name with a local link. "Newland Gardens" smacks of a marketing department that couldn't be arsed. I have no problem with Hertford growing, but what I don't want to see is off-the-shelf housing designs tweaked for the town. Nor do I want to see North London housing or North London values devalueing a Hertfordshire market town. Which brings us back to the proposed five-storey development on Marshgate Drive and the impact on congestion on Mill Road.
Originally posted by Sheila W Heel
I'm sorry have I missed something here? The Reason TBT (as it is now known) was built the way it has been was to conform to the original style of the remaining Addis Buildings now occupied by The Mercury and Riversmead Housing Assoc. Likewise Focus, when it opened in 1991, also had to 'conform' with this style as evidenced by its 'curved' window. It is a shame that Cannon's Gym didn't have to adhere to the sympathetic style. A redbrick block that lacks any finesse shows the lack of planning control that must have been in force when the Gasgoyne Way carpark was allowed to be built! It is very easy to knock a new development, but there is affordable housing on TBT, as well as private flats and houses. The design is sympathetic to Hertford's past and overall fairly appealing. There will also be affordable housing on The Riviera development - especially as Higgins' specialises in local authority housing. It is not overly modern (viz The Ebe the Riviera) but in any case, occupied housing is vastly more appealing to the eye and the economy than empty retail units. We don't want a ghostown. Newcomers could bolster a genuinely flagging daytime economy - surely this should be encouraged? Perhaps the view from a seven bedroom mansion is different, but not everyone can afford one of those!
Reply ID 29752
Ive had another good idea, why dont we, as we live in an old town, kmock down all the modern houses and go back to living in Mud huts with thatched roofs. For the love of god, why do we have to be "In keeping": are we not allowed to move on? if all planning agencies took this view we would never have got rid of over ground sewage!!
Reply ID 29775
quote:The land was originally known as Newlands Farm or Newlands Field prior to any industrialisation.
Originally posted by Steve Also notable is the fact that Barratt couldn't even be bothered with a name with a local link. "Newland Gardens" smacks of a marketing department that couldn't be arsed.
Reply ID 29778
<<Sound of Steve chomping on humble pie>>
Reply ID 29782
Oh Good shot Norah!!
Reply ID 29783
quote:Is that the listed building that is currently being turned into flats and having new flats built in its car park by any chance steve?
Originally posted by Steve Riviere too, with it's modern approach is totally out of character with the town, especially given it's position adjacent to a Grade One listed building.
Reply ID 29785
quote:No, it's the somewhat larger development of 112 flats next door to the car park. The listed building you refer to is The Dolphin and is being redeveloped as four flats.
Originally posted by Mad Mickquote:Is that the listed building that is currently being turned into flats and having new flats built in its car park by any chance steve?
Originally posted by Steve Riviere too, with it's modern approach is totally out of character with the town, especially given it's position adjacent to a Grade One listed building.
Reply ID 29786
I was refering to what you said "especially given its position...etc" i assume the listed building you refer to is the old Dolphin PH, which is being, as you say, converted, with flats (or houses or both) in its old car park. I suppose what im trying to point out, is, that even the "old" buildings are being given a new lease of life, and, do you suppose that the new houses/flats in the car park will be "in keeping"?
Reply ID 29787
quote:Ah, sorry, misunderstood. It's actually two listed buildings, the station being a Grade 1 Listed building. And yes, the new flats proposed for the car park are in keeping with The Dolphin and the station. Not sure what your point about "old buildings being given a new lease of life" is. The Dolphin was a fine building before and will continue to be. Riviere on the other hand is not.
Originally posted by Mad Mick
I was refering to what you said "especially given its position...etc" i assume the listed building you refer to is the old Dolphin PH, which is being, as you say, converted, with flats (or houses or both) in its old car park. I suppose what im trying to point out, is, that even the "old" buildings are being given a new lease of life, and, do you suppose that the new houses/flats in the car park will be "in keeping"?
Reply ID 29788
In your opinion!, In my opinion however (and at the end of the day its only opinions) they are ok, They are modern and fairly spacious (if VERY expensive!!) I will grant that they dont exactly "blend in" with the other buildings in the road, but hey, like i said earlier dont we need to modernise where possible?
Reply ID 29837
quote:Straight across his pompous bows! Tooth Brush Towers - a derogatory term? So Steve hates the place? Fair enough, he's entitled to his opinion. There are many places in Hertford that I'm not particularly keen on, and who knows - Steve might even live in one of them. Perhaps the town's housing should remain as it was as recently as 25 year ago, when many of the houses that were still owned by Macs in Port Vale, Byde Street, George Street, Russell Street, Nelson Street, Wellington Street, Hornsmill & Molewood Roads, Villiers & Currie Streets etc had no inside toilets, no bathrooms and no hot water! But they were tweely sweet and in keeping with the old world charm of Hertford. In many cases you couldn't even raise a mortgage on them unless you had a bridging loan first to put in basic facilities and drag them kicking and screaming into the last quarter of the 20th century. Things move on, and thankfully housing is one of them. Remember - one man's luxury flat is another man's artisan's cottage, and long may it be so.
Originally posted by Mad Mick
Oh Good shot Norah!!
Reply ID 29852
quote:I was referring to architectural values rather than housing conditions. There are some fine buildings that have gone up in the last few years, such as (in my humble opinion) the new terrace in Ware Road opposite Tescos, and the new homes on the site of the old cadet hall on Port Hill. If Riviere were a little less imposing I would consider that as well. What I don't like is mass-produced high-density off-the-shelf housing with no character, which is how I view TBT and other similar developments. I'd be interested to know from anyone who lives there what attracts them to such properties. In the same way as high streets can produce a clone town, so can housing. Just my opinion.
Originally posted by Fish Wife
Perhaps the town's housing should remain as it was as recently as 25 year ago, when many of the houses that were still owned by Macs in Port Vale, Byde Street, George Street, Russell Street, Nelson Street, Wellington Street, Hornsmill & Molewood Roads, Villiers & Currie Streets etc had no inside toilets, no bathrooms and no hot water! But they were tweely sweet and in keeping with the old world charm of Hertford. In many cases you couldn't even raise a mortgage on them unless you had a bridging loan first to put in basic facilities and drag them kicking and screaming into the last quarter of the 20th century.
Reply ID 29855
quote:I agree there have been some good developments in Hertford, designed and constructed with sensitivity and respect for the surroundings. However I do not believe any of these could be classed as 'affordable'. Although Riviere is not low cost housing it provides a larger number of properties for the footprint than a smaller number of higher value neo-Gerogian town houses.
Originally posted by Stevequote:I was referring to architectural values rather than housing conditions. There are some fine buildings that have gone up in the last few years, such as (in my humble opinion) the new terrace in Ware Road opposite Tescos, and the new homes on the site of the old cadet hall on Port Hill. If Riviere were a little less imposing I would consider that as well. What I don't like is mass-produced high-density off-the-shelf housing with no character, which is how I view TBT and other similar developments. I'd be interested to know from anyone who lives there what attracts them to such properties. In the same way as high streets can produce a clone town, so can housing. Just my opinion.
Originally posted by Fish Wife
Perhaps the town's housing should remain as it was as recently as 25 year ago, when many of the houses that were still owned by Macs in Port Vale, Byde Street, George Street, Russell Street, Nelson Street, Wellington Street, Hornsmill & Molewood Roads, Villiers & Currie Streets etc had no inside toilets, no bathrooms and no hot water! But they were tweely sweet and in keeping with the old world charm of Hertford. In many cases you couldn't even raise a mortgage on them unless you had a bridging loan first to put in basic facilities and drag them kicking and screaming into the last quarter of the 20th century.
Reply ID 29869
At the end of the day (god how i hate that expression) They wouldnt build it if people didnt buy it!
Reply ID 29872
The row of houses opposite Tesco copy a Georgian style, which in it's day was new and radical. "In keeping" has it's place and they look great, but are we to suppress all new design? If so, what style do we make the standard in Hertford? Victorian back to back, Georgian, Mock Tudor, 1970's, wooden hovels such as once filled every yard?
Reply ID 29885
quote:If all that is available is mass built, high density housing, "people" don't have much choice.
Originally posted by Mad Mick
At the end of the day (god how i hate that expression) They wouldnt build it if people didnt buy it!
Reply ID 29886
Thats not all thats available if you are willing/able to spend more money, or are we now suggesting that the builders should build more "in keeping" houses/flats but sell them for the same price as what you call mass built, high density houses/flats ??
Reply ID 29887
quote:We need variety. TBT would have been fine if at had remained as the town-houses with a few apartments at the back. The Georgian style houses on Ware Road, the town houses on the old Cadet place, even the little modern terrace at Christchurch Place and the modern flats on Elton Road are fine as they don't overwhelm the immediate vicinity. They don't SHOUT at you.
Originally posted by shunt
The row of houses opposite Tesco copy a Georgian style, which in it's day was new and radical. "In keeping" has it's place and they look great, but are we to suppress all new design? If so, what style do we make the standard in Hertford? Victorian back to back, Georgian, Mock Tudor, 1970's, wooden hovels such as once filled every yard?
Reply ID 29889
quote:They keep building "affordable housing" in line with Government directions. "Affordable housing" has to be high density and mass built to stay affordable. Assuming you get planning permission to build more desirable properties, the price goes up because demand is higher and it is no longer "affordable". Those that are willing and able to spend more do. But for people trying to get on the property ladder, this is what the Government is offering.
Originally posted by Mad Mick
Thats not all thats available if you are willing/able to spend more money, or are we now suggesting that the builders should build more "in keeping" houses/flats but sell them for the same price as what you call mass built, high density houses/flats ??
Reply ID 29890
So i am assuming then that you have a suggestion? Oh i know, lets just (overnight) reduce all the house prices shall we?...Dont get me wrong I feel very sorry for anyone trying to get on the housing ladder (and i mean that!!) but it is what it is (hugely overpriced) so the only way we are going to get even remotely affordable new homes is exactly what we are getting now (mass built!)
Reply ID 29898
quote:I give up, Mick. I'll just go and bang my head against a brick wall for a while.
Originally posted by Mad Mick
So i am assuming then that you have a suggestion? Oh i know, lets just (overnight) reduce all the house prices shall we?...Dont get me wrong I feel very sorry for anyone trying to get on the housing ladder (and i mean that!!) but it is what it is (hugely overpriced) so the only way we are going to get even remotely affordable new homes is exactly what we are getting now (mass built!)
Reply ID 29909
I honestly think thats all any of us can do at the moment. The only thing that is going to reduce prices by enough to make a significant impact, is a crash of devastating proportions! ps. if you need a big hard wall there is an excellent one at chez mad you would be welcome to use! I use it most evenings between 5 and 7 but its free from then until 9.30 when mrs Mad uses it.
Reply ID 29991
The 'Georgian' style houses are also grossly overpriced as is evidenced by the continual price drop for those on sale. They are extremely small and stick out like a sore thumb between the newsagents and the Victorian/Edwardian styles of the remaining houses next to them. These 6 houses were crammed onto the space formerly occupied by Pepper's monumental masons and do not represent good value for money or adequate living space for families - 2 of whom that I know haved moved for that reason, plus, when paying a fortune for a house, next to the bus-stop opposite Tesco is perhaps not the best place to be. It's also not much fun when people chain their bikes to your railings! Still, variety is the spice of life and you can't please everyone all the time.
Reply ID 30713
Its a nightmare driving in and out of Mead Lane again this week. Plus it seems to be getting longer and longer to get out onto Ware Rd. Have they changed the phasing of the lights? At 4pm today it took me 15 minutes to get from Mead Lane to the Bluecoats roundabout.
Reply ID 30717
quote:Stansted Road is closed this week and next, so all traffic is diverted via Ware Road and London Road, hence increased traffic.
Originally posted by Dude
Its a nightmare driving in and out of Mead Lane again this week. Plus it seems to be getting longer and longer to get out onto Ware Rd. Have they changed the phasing of the lights? At 4pm today it took me 15 minutes to get from Mead Lane to the Bluecoats roundabout.
Reply ID 31012
40 minutes to get from Mead Lane to the post office depot in Greencoats today!?!?! 40 minutes! It only took me 5 minutes more to drive from the West End on Friday! Has Hertford traffic gone mad!?
Reply ID 31014
quote:Why did you need to drive less than a mile from Mead Lane to Greencoates?
Originally posted by Dude
40 minutes to get from Mead Lane to the post office depot in Greencoats today!?!?! 40 minutes! It only took me 5 minutes more to drive from the West End on Friday! Has Hertford traffic gone mad!?
Reply ID 31031
quote:Blimey - the pendulum swings to both extremes in this thread![:D] Progression is not a bad thing, neither is respect for the character of what is essentially a character-based town (which is why we all love Hertford so). Property developers want max' price and are not interested in building buildings that are senstitive to the venacular unless they can charge appropriately whopping fees. The same goes for footprints - the smaller the footprint, the more houses/flats they can squeeze on to the plot of land. The planning permission process also focusses on suitability of building design for the area in which the property is to be built. The public is also given an opportunity to protest at an application. If an eyesore is approved then it is down to the council officer's who approved it. TBT - not a bad looking private development. Probably looks a whole lot better now the parking's under control. Riviera (any unoffical names floating around for this one yet?) - They're certainly setting out their stall for the London commute market. It says: Money - hopefully the new owners will spend that money in Hertford too. Gasgoyne Way - what happens when planning is too progressive and ignores the careful development a town with character needs. Hertford is an expensive property market which makes it a prime market for builders, too. The management of the town's development needs to be carefully managed to ensure it retains the appropriate position of character and progression for a county town.
Originally posted by Mad Mick
Ive had another good idea, why dont we, as we live in an old town, knock down all the modern houses and go back to living in Mud huts with thatched roofs. For the love of god, why do we have to be "In keeping": are we not allowed to move on? if all planning agencies took this view we would never have got rid of over ground sewage!!
Reply ID 31074
quote:Had to send a large parcel from the post office depot.
Originally posted by Stevequote:Why did you need to drive less than a mile from Mead Lane to Greencoates?
Originally posted by Dude
40 minutes to get from Mead Lane to the post office depot in Greencoats today!?!?! 40 minutes! It only took me 5 minutes more to drive from the West End on Friday! Has Hertford traffic gone mad!?
Reply ID 33780
The plans for this development have been recommended for refusal by Planning Officers. The final decision will be made by the Development Control Committee when they meet on Wednesday 17th January.
Reply ID 33781
quote:Hmm. So they have refused PP for housing, which the town seems to need, but they granted PP for a load of industrial units, when we can't fill half the units already there!?! And the council think they are labelled unfairly???
Originally posted by Steve
The plans for this development have been recommended for refusal by Planning Officers. The final decision will be made by the Development Control Committee when they meet on Wednesday 17th January.
Reply ID 33782
Does seem a little strange doesnt it? however, we do elect these people to do a collective job for us dont we? I guess they must think they know what they are doing. Regarding the proposals that have been turned down, do they give the reasons?
Reply ID 33788
Traffic access and insufficient parking are two of the reasons given for refusal I beleive. There were also objections citing overdevelopment. I understand that this particular company have a growing list of refusals from various local authorities with similar factors being mentioned. It might be worth pointing out that as well as the 112 new flats in Mill Road, there is also a development going up on the adjacent Sea Scout hut site - another 112 flats that already has approval.
Reply ID 33790
Didnt know about that one, but surely its got to be better than whats there now hasnt it. and its not as if, if you go that far down that road that there is too much need for "fitting in with previous architecture" is there?
Reply ID 33791
What with all these riverside developments, Hertford is becoming the new Venice. No gondoliers but rammed full of punters.
Reply ID 33795
Methinks you may have hit on something there herbert! with all the water round here (see hartham pool thread) could we not infact build some kind of canal system and go the whole hog! Flood Fore street (thus doing away with at least 2 annoying threads) which would surely attract more people to the town (theres another thread there!!)
Reply ID 33802
quote:Then we would end up with an endless thread on river jams, river wardens and drowing activities. Haven't we already started that with the Underpass Flooding? Way Forward.............
Originally posted by Mad Mick
Methinks you may have hit on something there herbert! with all the water round here (see hartham pool thread) could we not infact build some kind of canal system and go the whole hog! Flood Fore street (thus doing away with at least 2 annoying threads) which would surely attract more people to the town (theres another thread there!!)
Reply ID 33806
*** Update *** Official reasons for refusal: - Overdevelopment - Poor design - Out of keeping with existing residential development - Inadequate parking - Vehicular access issues - Inadequate cycle parking (yes, really!, contrary to Policy TR14 of the Local Plan) - Insufficient information submitted regarding landscaping - No adequate assessment of impact on homeowners of adjacent commercial and industrial premises - Inadequate proposals regarding sustainability issues
Reply ID 33807
Outside of building the Hoddesdon Tower there it couldn't be much worse than it is now. We already have the young offenders insitute that is the Riviere, it seems prissy to lump an objection like "Out of keeping with existing residential development". The next application better include plans for inclusion of toxic spoil, then it'll fit in just nicely.
Reply ID 33816
Sorry to go over "old ground", but are you talking about the site at the top of Mead Lane for the refusal of PP? If so, I noticed some pretty severe tree work going on there this week.
Reply ID 33817
quote:At the end of Marshgate Drive, currently industrial units [url="http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=marshgate+trading+estate+hertford&sll=51.803626,-0.078835&sspn=0.013507,0.033474&ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=51.801609,-0.070531&spn=0.003377,0.011888&t=h&om=1&iwloc=addr"]Marshgate Trading Estate[/url]
Originally posted by jennywren
Sorry to go over "old ground", but are you talking about the site at the top of Mead Lane for the refusal of PP? If so, I noticed some pretty severe tree work going on there this week.
Reply ID 35072
So, the Marshgate development has been nixed. One of the reasons cited being "Out of keeping with existing residential development". Does that mean that the TXU (Sea cadets) site will be "In keeping with existing residential development" and does that include HMP Riviere as an "existing residential development"?
Reply ID 39827
New planning application submitted [url="http://e-services.eastherts.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=3/07/0935/FP&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=41735%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href='wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=83109%26StartIndex=1%26SortOrder=APNID:asc%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=41735%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E'%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E"] Demolition of existing light industrial buildings & construction of 182 new residential units with covered car parking, new access & external landscaping[/url]
Reply ID 42521
Looks like this is going ahead. 182 Houses, eh. I wonder if they're going to face them right up to the river?
Reply ID 42523
quote:What makes to say this? There has been no decision on the planning application. If I were a betting man I'd wager it'll be turned down as overdevelopment.
Originally posted by Ted Badger
Looks like this is going ahead.
quote:182 residential units, most of them flats.
Originally posted by Ted Badger
182 Houses, eh.
Reply ID 42542
quote:Perhaps I'm looking at the wrong spot, but they've put a load of scaffolding up from the Dicker Mill bridge down the towpath of the canal, with hoardings up announcing the arrival of new homes. It's all of the land bordered by Mead Lane, Marshgate Drive, Mill Road and the river.
Originally posted by Steve What makes to say this? There has been no decision on the planning application. If I were a betting man I'd wager it'll be turned down as overdevelopment.
Reply ID 42544
Yes, you're looking at the wrong spot. This is the former TXU Energy site, which has permission for 130 flats. [url="http://e-services.eastherts.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=3/05/0316/FP&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=50433%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href='wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=100340%26StartIndex=1%26SortOrder=APNID:asc%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=50433%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E'%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E"]Development providing 130 residential units and new sea cadet facility[/url] The plan for 182 units is a separate development on the industrial estate which is still occupied. See also the thread on [url="http://e-services.eastherts.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=3/05/0316/FP&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=50433%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href='wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=100340%26StartIndex=1%26SortOrder=APNID:asc%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=50433%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E'%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E"]Development Drive[/url]
Reply ID 42545
Blimey. If the other development goes ahead, it's going to be the start of the new Hertford/Ware conurbation then.
Reply ID 42547
Blimey indeed! Together with Riviere this is potentially 424 new homes within quite a small area and all served by Mill Road. And that's before the [url="http://e-services.eastherts.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=3/06/1901/FP&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=50460%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href='wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=100373%26StartIndex=11%26SortOrder=APNID:asc%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=50460%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E'%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E"]new business units[/url] go up on the old tar works; and anything that goes on the old gas works (which is a BIG site). As I've said before, there is no strategy for this area of the town and everything is being developed piecemeal.
Reply ID 42563
Steve That would seem to imply that you think there's a strategy for *anywhere* in Hertford?! I've yet to see any signs of "joined-up" thinking in this town and with all of these new developments planned, the mind can only boggle. Surely all these new homes will bring more children into the area and so therefore, it makes perfect sense to have just demolished the old Pines School building?! What are these "planners" on?? (Rant over)
Reply ID 42564
This road has been impossible to get down in the morning for the last 2 years, and I bet things are about to get even worse [:(]
Reply ID 42567
Hertford evolved without any plan. Stevenage and Harlow were planned before a brick was laid. Hmmm.....?
Reply ID 43071
The [second] planning application has been refused following a meeting of the Development Control Committee on 18th July.
Reply ID 48628
This planning application for 182 flats has now been forced through by The Planning Inspectorate, who overode the District Council's two refusals. The artists impression I've seen suggests something similar to Newland Gardens by the river. [V]
Reply ID 48648
quote:I don't think the inspectorate force planning applications through. They judge appeals to refusals.
Originally posted by Steve
This planning application for 182 flats has now been forced through by The Planning Inspectorate, who overode the District Council's two refusals. The artists impression I've seen suggests something similar to Newland Gardens by the river. [V]
Reply ID 48654
quote:The effect is very much the same. A plan that was rejected by locally elected officials has been approved by unelected officials without any local connections or knowledge, against the wishes of the local authority and its' policies. Overlooking the questionable merit of the development, there is of course the question of how Mill Road is going to cope with nearly 200 more households - 300 if you include the work underway by the seascout hut.
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:I don't think the inspectorate force planning applications through. They judge appeals to refusals.
Originally posted by Steve
This planning application for 182 flats has now been forced through by The Planning Inspectorate, who overode the District Council's two refusals. The artists impression I've seen suggests something similar to Newland Gardens by the river. [V]
Reply ID 48662
This is an artist's impression of what's planned for the TXU site by the river [img]../images/forum/txu_hertford_development.jpg[/img]
Reply ID 48666
Take one big nissen hut, stick a balcony on the side, et voila!
Reply ID 48678
Not a car in sight
Reply ID 48708
and on a flood plain..
Reply ID 48714
So - let's get this straight. Some company has been given approval to build 180 flats in Marshgate Drive? Old English: "The gate that allows us to follow a path towards the marsh". Traffic will go the other way. Am I the only one who is bemused today?
Reply ID 48715
It was formerly "Gas House Lane". Can't imagine why they changed it [;)]
Reply ID 48746
build build build
Reply ID 48748
quote:Are you just trying to boost your post count by contributing oblique statements without any background or qualification. What exactly does "build build build" mean? Build what? Fences? Schools? Tunnels? Or maybe you mean homes. So why build them? And how do people get from these homes to other places? Maybe they'll use roads. But what if there is only one road and there's so much traffic the road becomes gridlocked? What if there aren't enough schools places for the families that occupy the homes? What about electricity and gas for the homes? Where does that come from? Does it just magically appear on the building site when they're putting up the homes? And what about good design, the environment or the social issues thrown up by high density housing? What about threats to the historic character of the town? Have you thought about any of these? Or is "build build build" the sum of your worthwhile contribution on this subject? I don't mind you posting something I disagree with, but please don't contribute inarticulate nonsense.
Originally posted by btj
build build build