Topic ID 2103
A somewhat scurrilous suggestion, but how long before East Herts District Council follow suit... [url="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2404991,00.html"]More councils pull out of weekly rubbish collection[/url]
Reply ID 28258
Oh good, a reduction in our council tax...
Reply ID 28259
I think you'll find that there wouldn't be a council tax reduction. Rubbish would be collected one week and then next week recyclable material would be collected; the waste collection vehicles still need to go down the same roads once a week. The County Council's Waste Aware scheme suggests that 50% of household rubbish can be recycled... so if your "rubbish" is halved then it wouldn't need to be collected so frequently - issues of odour need to be addressed, especially in hot weather. I realise that recycling materials does require effort from everyone, and it would seem that historically material separated for recycling have not necessarily been recycled, but what is the other solution? Hertfordshire's landfill capacity will run out in 2008, and the County is already a net exporter of waste. We have limited holes in the ground and processes such as incineration (used in Germany who took the recent EU directive to mean that there could be no further landfill from 2006) are unpopular. There are huge piles of UK generated electricals in China and in Africa, but that doesn't solve the problem, just moves it around. I would be really interested to see what solutions people have; I know that is similar topics we have talked about getting manufacturers to reduce packaging which would be great, but some rubbish would still be produced and what would we do with that? I don't know what answer is, maybe we're all doomed!!
Reply ID 28261
The figures don't add up. At the moment our general rubbish is collected once a week and our recycled rubbish every 2 weeks. As far as I am aware the general rubbish and recycled rubbish are collected by different lorries. Therefore, we are getting 3 collections every 2 week period. If they collect the general rubbish every other week then we will be getting only 2 collections every 2 week period. I would like to see a reduction in my council tax bill corresponding to 33% of the cost of refuse collection. I won't be holding my breath though. I've not got a problem with recycling - we've been seperating and recycling for years. I do have a problem with services being reduced and still having to pay for them though.
Reply ID 28264
I think that the idea is with less trips dispose of rubbish and more trips to dispose of recycled materials the number of journies would be "about" the same, and there is the additional cost of investment in recycling facilities. As I say, I would be interested as to what people see at the alternatives to deal with the waste which we produce.
Reply ID 28269
quote:Bring back 'fresh' into the food equation. A lot of food I purchase is wrapped and vacuum-packaged to keep it in good condition for months. The most you will get from a green grocer is a brown paper bag, which has been recycled already. McDonalds has a lot to answer for: Burger, box, napkin and paper bag. Drink in carton, straw, and cardboard drink holder. All for a purchase of under 3 quid. Maybe they could start the ball rolling as the are responsible for a proportion of the 'over-the-top' packaging problem.
Originally posted by SMT
I think that the idea is with less trips dispose of rubbish and more trips to dispose of recycled materials the number of journies would be "about" the same, and there is the additional cost of investment in recycling facilities. As I say, I would be interested as to what people see at the alternatives to deal with the waste which we produce.
Reply ID 28271
quote:And dont forget the tomato sauce sachet. You are right James - and as these are a multitude of materials they wont get sorted out for recycling so will all end up in a bin bag for land fill. I'm lovin' it. [V]
Originally posted by James007 McDonalds has a lot to answer for: Burger, box, napkin and paper bag. Drink in carton, straw, and cardboard drink holder. All for a purchase of under 3 quid. Maybe they could start the ball rolling as the are responsible for a proportion of the 'over-the-top' packaging problem.
Reply ID 28279
quote:in fact, if this does happen, council tax will actually increase to account for the large increase in rodent infestations, as a result of the rubbish not being collected, with further seasonal increases in the warmer months of the year.[:p]
Originally posted by SMT
I think that the idea is with less trips dispose of rubbish and more trips to dispose of recycled materials the number of journies would be "about" the same, and there is the additional cost of investment in recycling facilities. As I say, I would be interested as to what people see at the alternatives to deal with the waste which we produce.
Reply ID 28284
After about 4 days in the Summer weather our bin is toxic, it usually has a swarm of flies around it and you can smell it at ten paces! I wouldn't like to think of the smell after 14 days?![xx(]
Reply ID 28290
We are a family of 5. I would say that we are an average family. We have a black bin for general waste, a brown bin for garden waste, a green box for paper, plastic bottles and glass which we fill with paper once a fortnight. In addition we have 3 more boxes (larger than the council supplied one) which we use for tins, plastic bottles, glass and cardboard. I go to the dump roughly every 2 weeks with the recyclable stuff. Our black bin is normally almost full every week. If they change to fortnightly collections we will generate enough rubbish to more than fill our black bin. Can someone suggest how we generate less general bearing in mind we recycle all of our paper, glass, cardboard, plastic bottles and tins. Or will the council expect me to take my general rubbish to the tip?
Reply ID 28291
It is nothing more than a cost cutting exercise. The council can exploit the fact that waste generation is seen as our fault and therefore we should be punished if we cannot control our waste. having said that, I applaud measures that force people to consider more carefully their views on recycling, including my own.
Reply ID 28301
I live in a flat with two other people and we are only supplied with two green paper boxes for the whole building - that equates to around 8 flats per green box. We then have two biffer bins (large bins on wheels used at schools and offices) for our general waste. We have no garden to grow anything in either and can not afford a larger property. I already take plastic bottles, tins and card to the tip but I would like to know what I can do to be greener? I would love to see a vast reduction in the amount of packaging that I get with my weekly shop and in the amount of plastic bags given out by supermarkets and shops! How long will it be before our streets are clogged with Sainsbury’s bags?!
Reply ID 28303
quote:What did the council say when you explained this to them?
Originally posted by bec501uk
I live in a flat with two other people and we are only supplied with two green paper boxes for the whole building - that equates to around 8 flats per green box.
Reply ID 28304
You don't have to explain anything to the council to receive another/more green boxes - just fill in the online form and a new box will be delivered.
Reply ID 28312
quote:The packaging issue is interesting; as refuse collections are made more infrequent--as it appears they will be--and producers of excessive refuse begin to be charged--as they surely will be--then I imagine we'll start to see a vast reduction in the amounts of packaging used on products. Consumers will vote with their feet and not buy products with packaging they are likely to have to pay to dispose of, causing the manufacturers to change their ways; package-lite will become a competitive advantage for companies.
Originally posted by bec501uk
I would love to see a vast reduction in the amount of packaging that I get with my weekly shop and in the amount of plastic bags given out by supermarkets and shops! How long will it be before our streets are clogged with Sainsbury’s bags?!
quote:Can't really blame the supermarkets/shops for this one - you aren't forced to take the bags and can easily provide your own means of carrying stuff.
and in the amount of plastic bags given out by supermarkets and shops! How long will it be before our streets are clogged with Sainsbury’s bags?!
Reply ID 28314
quote:The solution already exists, but we have a government who want to push the problem down the line instead. Building regional reclemation centres will allow households to throw everything in one bin, and machinery will segregate the items at the other end, before any landfill. Reclemation centres bascially contain a giant conveyor belt, which can add a solution to break down paper, use magnets to pull out the steel, and use laser viewers and blowers to knock the glass out (by individual colour). There are also a variety of methods to pull out plastic and aluminium. They are far more efficient that the general public, and they free up space, like local reycyling points and bin after bin after bin in front gardens. As a nation, we seem to be doing it all arse about face. We are asking for the waste segegation to happen at the point with with least amount of space (the front door step).
Originally posted by SMT
I realise that recycling materials does require effort from everyone, and it would seem that historically material separated for recycling have not necessarily been recycled, but what is the other solution? Hertfordshire's landfill capacity will run out in 2008, and the County is already a net exporter of waste. We have limited holes in the ground and processes such as incineration (used in Germany who took the recent EU directive to mean that there could be no further landfill from 2006) are unpopular. There are huge piles of UK generated electricals in China and in Africa, but that doesn't solve the problem, just moves it around. I would be really interested to see what solutions people have; I know that is similar topics we have talked about getting manufacturers to reduce packaging which would be great, but some rubbish would still be produced and what would we do with that? I don't know what answer is, maybe we're all doomed!!
Reply ID 28318
Wouldnt bother us at all. We are a family of three. In a week we use 2 bin sacks in the kitchen. So our wheelie bin is not really that full. Also i dont use disposable nappies on little_P, but instead wash cloth nappies.
Reply ID 28324
quote:We are also an "average" family of 5 but I reckon that we can get three weeks worth of waste into the black wheelie bin, so fortnightly collections would not be a problem to us. The bin does not smell as all the organic/kitchen waste is composted so most of the black bin waste is dry unavoidable packaging. However when we had younger children and nappies it was a different story.... This is maybe the problem that for perfectly good resons different households will have different waste outputs and these will change over time.
Originally posted by JohnSmith
We are a family of 5. I would say that we are an average family. We have a black bin for general waste, a brown bin for garden waste, a green box for paper, plastic bottles and glass which we fill with paper once a fortnight. In addition we have 3 more boxes (larger than the council supplied one) which we use for tins, plastic bottles, glass and cardboard. I go to the dump roughly every 2 weeks with the recyclable stuff. Our black bin is normally almost full every week. If they change to fortnightly collections we will generate enough rubbish to more than fill our black bin. Can someone suggest how we generate less general bearing in mind we recycle all of our paper, glass, cardboard, plastic bottles and tins. Or will the council expect me to take my general rubbish to the tip?
Reply ID 28326
We are a family of 3 plus 4 cats. Almost every week I have to put on a pair of strong boots and jump up and down in the bin to compact the waste and get more in. Our bin weighs so much that it has once fallen into the bin lorry. I blame the cats.
Reply ID 28329
We are a family of two and we fill our black wheelie bin every week. We recycle all garden waste, cardboard, glass, tin and paper. Our small pets generate a lot of waste each week but it all gets recycled so how on earth we fill the black bin each week is quite astounding! We certainly couldn't cope with fortnightly collections [:0]
Reply ID 28330
I only have one cat, but she does get though litter. We have tried her on the Worlds best cat litter, which is made from corn, but she didn't like it at all and refused to use it for 2 days so back on the old stuff she went. You could see the relif on her face.
Reply ID 28331
I have noticed a big reduction in the volume of our black bin rubbish - just from recycling plastic bottles. Our family of 4 + 2 cats, 2 Giant African snails and 5 goldfish could get by with a fortnightly collection, especially if I religiously recycled all cardboard instead of just the big bits, but the bin would stink as the stuff we chuck away tends to be food waste. My garden is not big enough for a composter and quite a lot of food cannot be composted. Two weeks worth of plastic bottles is easily a large black bin bag full - I wonder why the council is not offering to collect these?
Reply ID 28334
quote:It's to do with 'transporting air' lol, well that's what I read anyway! [;)]
Originally posted by nora batty
Two weeks worth of plastic bottles is easily a large black bin bag full - I wonder why the council is not offering to collect these?
quote:We have over 20 pets but ironically it's us that creates more 'black bin waste' as all their stuff gets recycled! [:p] Our bin stinks because of all the food waste and the fact we can only site our bin in direct sunlight which only aggrevates the smell [xx(] If the collections went fortnightly will we be responsible for the smell??
Our family of 4 + 2 cats, 2 Giant African snails and 5 goldfish could get by with a fortnightly collection, especially if I religiously recycled all cardboard instead of just the big bits, but the bin would stink as the stuff we chuck away tends to be food waste.
Reply ID 28338
There was an article in the Daily Mail on Thursday last week, a guy in Swindon I believe has the problem of a collection of his rubbish only once in every two weeks and the binmen are not allowed to collect rubbish more than his bin full! He took matters into his hands and personally put the rubbish in the back of the truck to the dismay of the binmen who are jobsworths, or at least spouting the council rhetoric. The man faces Police next time he tries this!!!!!! He was sick and tired of rats/mice and foxes breaking the bags open, the smell of the rotting rubbish and also the fact that its a health hazard as his footpath goes past his house to the local primary school!! I don't think they will reduce the Council Tax but we do and will need to be on our guard for this. I will fight for the right to have a smell free, non-toxic environment or I dump my stuff at County Hall!!!!
Reply ID 28340
Here's an interesting article on how it might be better to shift the responsibility to the manafacturer of all this waste. If you think about it logically, we as residents don't actually make any waste, we simply purchase it. I don't see any manufacturer in this country being penalised for excessive packaging. The Green Dot system from Germany seems to make sense. Maybe Defra might want to adopt that in this country? http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/recycling.html By the way, this is Defra's statement on their priorities: ‘development which enables all people throughout the world to satisfy their basic needs and enjoy a better quality of life without compromising the quality of life of future generations.’ Quote from DEFRA website. http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/recycling.html
Reply ID 28342
We (two of us) don't generate a lot of waste, and only put the bin out every three to four weeks. We have a liner in the kitchen bin which we knot and put into the wheely, and never have smells (I assume they're locked into the bag). If we have a chicken carcass or similar we put that into a carrier bag first and knot that before it goes into the kitchen bin, so its double bagged when it gets to the wheely. The only time we've had a problem was when the freezer broke when we were away for a fortnight and so we didn't find it until we got back and had to wait nearly a week for the binmen. [xx(]
Reply ID 28349
quote:Yeap... and have you seen the letters of objection when an application is made for an MRF!! At an MRF (Materials Recycling Facility) all recycling materials are sorted on a conveyor belt type system with magnets lifting out metals, and people picking out plastics, etc. Only no one wants one near them. Not sure what the solution is - possibly a loosening of green belt policy to allow these facilities on farms as no-one wants them in their back yard... I get to read the letters!! [;)]
Originally posted by Dude The solution already exists, but we have a government who want to push the problem down the line instead. Building regional reclemation centres will allow households to throw everything in one bin, and machinery will segregate the items at the other end, before any landfill. Reclemation centres bascially contain a giant conveyor belt, which can add a solution to break down paper, use magnets to pull out the steel, and use laser viewers and blowers to knock the glass out (by individual colour). There are also a variety of methods to pull out plastic and aluminium. They are far more efficient that the general public, and they free up space, like local reycyling points and bin after bin after bin in front gardens. As a nation, we seem to be doing it all arse about face. We are asking for the waste segegation to happen at the point with with least amount of space (the front door step).
Reply ID 28351
quote:Stop putting them in the bin! [;)]
Originally posted by Ewoowar
We are a family of 3 plus 4 cats. Almost every week I have to put on a pair of strong boots and jump up and down in the bin to compact the waste and get more in. Our bin weighs so much that it has once fallen into the bin lorry. I blame the cats.
Reply ID 28383
quote:Aha! I didn't want to confuse anyone using the real name of MRF! [:)] The thing is, no one wants prisons built near them either, but we are not asked to house criminals in a brown bin outside our front door. Its the governments job to tackle the problem. I think there is a simple solution. Build an MRF at every landfill site. The traffic was going there anyway, and no secondary journey will be required to get rid of the leftover sludge. It will also bring a lot of jobs to rural areas.
Originally posted by SMTquote:Yeap... and have you seen the letters of objection when an application is made for an MRF!! At an MRF (Materials Recycling Facility) all recycling materials are sorted on a conveyor belt type system with magnets lifting out metals, and people picking out plastics, etc. Only no one wants one near them. Not sure what the solution is - possibly a loosening of green belt policy to allow these facilities on farms as no-one wants them in their back yard... I get to read the letters!! [;)]
Originally posted by Dude The solution already exists, but we have a government who want to push the problem down the line instead. Building regional reclemation centres will allow households to throw everything in one bin, and machinery will segregate the items at the other end, before any landfill. Reclemation centres bascially contain a giant conveyor belt, which can add a solution to break down paper, use magnets to pull out the steel, and use laser viewers and blowers to knock the glass out (by individual colour). There are also a variety of methods to pull out plastic and aluminium. They are far more efficient that the general public, and they free up space, like local reycyling points and bin after bin after bin in front gardens. As a nation, we seem to be doing it all arse about face. We are asking for the waste segegation to happen at the point with with least amount of space (the front door step).
Reply ID 28387
Come on Dude, don't try and apply logic to this [;)] An MRF is a building and now you're proposing to have them in the Green Belt!!! I agree this does need to be considered in terms of facilities, and packaging, by Central Government to try and give a more co-ordinated response. At the moment, each District Council is responsible for its own collection which is contributing to the problems we've discussed. Wonder what Mark Prisk MP thinks about it..
Reply ID 28678
From The Times Online: [url="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2415970,00.html"]Householders face £200 tax to empty rubbish bins[/url]
Reply ID 28685
Can someone remind me why I pay council tax? I seem to be getting less and less for it. Michael Reeves had better watch out. He could be looking at a 10 year stretch if he is caught again.
Reply ID 28688
quote:Fire and Rescue, libraries, social services, trading standards, art and leisure services, building control, car parks, environmental health, parks and open spaces, swimming pools, policing, allotments, The Museum, cemetries, CCTV, tourist information, pest control, housing, highways, licensing ...
Originally posted by JohnSmith
Can someone remind me why I pay council tax? I seem to be getting less and less for it.
Reply ID 28691
You missed out refuse collection from your list. It looks like we will pay for refuse collection through our council tax and this extra tax. This could be the thin end of the wedge. "Hello, Hertford Police" "I've been burgled, can you send an officer round" "Sorry sir, burglaries are now outside of our core services. We will have to charge you for a visit which you can claim against your contents insurance" "I don't have contents insurance" Sound of air being sucked through pursed lips "That'll cost you, guv"
Reply ID 28695
quote:Judging by this week's Mercury, attempted fraud is already outside the police's core services. "Biker dad target of email fraid" - A school govenor in Ware has issued a warning to anyone selling second-hand goods after he was targeted by a sophisticated fraudster.... Mr.Horridge checked with a bank, which confirmed that the draft was a fake.... Mr.Horridge said "I contacted Herts Police, who weren't particularly interested. They told me if I was at all worried then not to go ahead with the sale." As an organisation the police take e-crime seriously. Unfortunately this has not filtereed down to the local level. [url="http://uk.news.yahoo.com/13102006/152/met-criticises-local-police-e-crime-response.html"]Met criticises local police e-crime response[/url] Apologies for veering off-topic. Oh, and I missed off refuse from the list because I was only listing services in addition to refuse. Sorry.
Originally posted by JohnSmith
"Hello, Hertford Police" "I've been burgled, can you send an officer round" "Sorry sir, burglaries are now outside of our core services. We will have to charge you for a visit which you can claim against your contents insurance" "I don't have contents insurance" Sound of air being sucked through pursed lips "That'll cost you, guv"
Reply ID 29093
According to Grandma Batty, recycling in her district (Wyre Forest) is due to end and the system will revert to sorting rubbish by hand at a depot as this is more cost effective after all. They have had recycling boxes for paper, cans, glass and garden waste for at least 3 years with collection for recycled rubbish being weekly and general rubbish fortnightly. Responsibility for waste is being shifted to County from District, and County say that the current system costs more. So, in 3 years time (after we've all been issued with extra boxes and a new collection cycle, spent money on new lorries and consultants) perhaps East Herts will follow suit.
Reply ID 29118
quote:Is this correct as this entry from a Wyre Forest Conservative Councillor in July 2006 suggests that their system is a big success and that the changes are not an end to doorstep sorting, just an alteration to the system: A key part of the strategy is the fortnightly wheeled bin collection and although I agree, that in very hot weather, additional care should be taken in the way that households dispose of and wrap their waste, prior to being placed in the wheelie bin, the overall strategy of fortnightly collections is one that cannot be abandoned if we are to meet the strictly imposed targets. The cost of the current refuse service is £17.51 per household, per annum. If we were to introduce a weekly collection this would increase the collection costs by just over £700,000 per annum, taking the total cost of the service to £1.5 million which would equate to £35.02 per household per annum. Wyre Forest District Council’s recycling achievements are seen as good practice in the County and other councils such as Worcester City and Wychavon are in the process of trailing similar fortnightly collections. It is recognised by many local authorities that in order to meet the strict waste minimisation targets, fortnightly collections are an effective method and Wyre Forest is one of some 120 local authorities throughout England and Wales who currently operate fortnightly collections. Readers may be interested to know that as a Council we have agreed with all other local Councils in Worcestershire to introduce a twin wheeled bin collection service from 2009, which will hopefully give substantial improvements to the levels of recycling, as well as giving a more flexible and controlled refuse service and alleviate householders from having to sort their recyclables into different boxes.
Originally posted by nora batty
According to Grandma Batty, recycling in her district (Wyre Forest) is due to end and the system will revert to sorting rubbish by hand at a depot as this is more cost effective after all. They have had recycling boxes for paper, cans, glass and garden waste for at least 3 years with collection for recycled rubbish being weekly and general rubbish fortnightly. Responsibility for waste is being shifted to County from District, and County say that the current system costs more. So, in 3 years time (after we've all been issued with extra boxes and a new collection cycle, spent money on new lorries and consultants) perhaps East Herts will follow suit.
Reply ID 29125
That's interesting. I'll have to check this out - it may be that the move from District to County was publicised after this release. Or Grandma Batty could have got her facts completely confused (not completely unknown...)
Reply ID 29169
quote:Districts are responsible for waste collection, County is responsible for waste disposal. That's why you have different methods in different districts even within the same county; don't start applying logic! The one box for recyclables depends on the MRF system mentioned earlier in the thread [:)]
Originally posted by nora batty
Responsibility for waste is being shifted to County from District, and County say that the current system costs more. So, in 3 years time (after we've all been issued with extra boxes and a new collection cycle, spent money on new lorries and consultants) perhaps East Herts will follow suit.
Reply ID 29170
quote:Aha! That makes sense then as planning is being sought for an MRF a few miles from Grandma Batty. I havn't had a chance to talk with her yet, but she did say that there is a theory being bandied about that if waste is sorted close to the collection point it becomes more efficient than sorting at home.
Originally posted by SMT Districts are responsible for waste collection, County is responsible for waste disposal. That's why you have different methods in different districts even within the same county; don't start applying logic! The one box for recyclables depends on the MRF system mentioned earlier in the thread [:)]
Reply ID 30523
Finally some pressure on the manufacturers to reduce the amount of packaging! http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2006/061113a.htm Apologies this is not strictly Hertford, but relevant to the points raised in the thread.