Topic ID 2039
My great aunt, aged 80, went into her local dental practice yesterday to have her once yearly check-up. She was there for almost 90 minutes and afterwards I picked her up to take her back home to Sele Farm. Like her, I was a very dismayed and angered to find that she had received a check-up costing £50 and was THEN taken to the dental hygeinist who charged her at a concessionary rate of £40 per hour instead of the usual £80. So, £90 in all. Apart from the cost, the odd thing about this is...... she only has 3 teeth, the rest are false! My folks use the same dental practice and visited for the first time since it went private. 3 weeks ago, after the dentist had tried to shove the obligatory insurance plan, hygienist session and "it looks like you need root planing" down their throats, they emerged £120 lighter, just for two check-ups. Am I alone in thinking that this is an absolute rip-off con?
Reply ID 27054
Aren't such rates typical? But the hygienist was surely unnecessary if she's got to 90 without one! There are apparently NHS services available in the area (none in Hertford itself, but in Hoddesdon, Cheshunt and Ware). This link points you to them http://www.nhs.uk/England/Dentists/NearestSearch.aspx I'm with an NHS dentist in Enfield, and my last checkup plus x-ray and two fillings came to £42.50.
Reply ID 27055
quote:Cheers Stephen, although I am not sure if they will qualify as they all live out of district for 2 of them, but may give ware a go. I'll look at the link now.
Originally posted by Stephen
Aren't such rates typical? But the hygienist was surely unnecessary if she's got to 90 without one! There are apparently NHS services available in the area (none in Hertford itself, but in Hoddesdon, Cheshunt and Ware). This link points you to them http://www.nhs.uk/England/Dentists/NearestSearch.aspx I'm with an NHS dentist in Enfield, and my last checkup plus x-ray and two fillings came to £42.50.
Reply ID 27066
Would you like to name and shame the practice in question?
Reply ID 27067
Yes I would Steve. Can I?
Reply ID 27068
quote:If it's factually correct then there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to name the practice
Originally posted by Berbatov
Yes I would Steve. Can I?
Reply ID 27069
Please confirm that the email address quoted in your profile is correct, otherwise contact admin(at)hertford.net Many thanks
Reply ID 27071
Please name them. I am sure it will be appreciated.
Reply ID 27072
quote:Dentists in this country enjoy a high standard of living and someone has to pay for it. I am not saying thats right or wrong. I'll leave the rest of you to work that one out[;)]
Originally posted by Berbatov
My great aunt, aged 80, went into her local dental practice yesterday to have her once yearly check-up. She was there for almost 90 minutes and afterwards I picked her up to take her back home to Sele Farm. Like her, I was a very dismayed and angered to find that she had received a check-up costing £50 and was THEN taken to the dental hygeinist who charged her at a concessionary rate of £40 per hour instead of the usual £80. So, £90 in all. Apart from the cost, the odd thing about this is...... she only has 3 teeth, the rest are false! My folks use the same dental practice and visited for the first time since it went private. 3 weeks ago, after the dentist had tried to shove the obligatory insurance plan, hygienist session and "it looks like you need root planing" down their throats, they emerged £120 lighter, just for two check-ups. Am I alone in thinking that this is an absolute rip-off con?
Reply ID 27074
The name and address of this place is: Dental Healthcare 73 Ware Road Hertford On the corner of the Raynham Street/Ware Road junction.
Reply ID 27077
I am currently (but for not much longer) a patient at that practice & have been aware of a steep reduction in customer service & increase in the application in fees since the previous partners left. It seems to be in particular the latter - I pay @£250 per year to the Denplan Dental Insurance care which is a lot but provided a degree of piece of mind. Now this is being so strictly interpreted that almost anything done out of the basic treatment costs a fortune. That is their prerogative, but the impact is that they are about to lose a customer (& from my discussions in the debating society that is the bar of the White Horse, many more) my £250 meanwhile goes into a high interest account and I'll take the risk...... Damn! A rogue pork scratching………
Reply ID 27078
I have used that practice since I was about 14 and had nothing but praise for it until about 18 months ago. Whilst I still feel that I get good treatment there, I have found that the cost has gone through the roof! This year has cost me £700+ and I have another imminent appointment with the hygienist. I'm going to see what I get for the £80 that I'll be charged and then decide what to do in the future. I think the 'new blood' there felt that they walked back into the dark ages when they took over the practice but the impression I get is that many patients were very happy with the treatment they recieved. I know I was. Unfortunately dragging the practice into the 21st century coupled with the Government's approach to dental care on the NHS comes at a price and I reckon we are all paying for it. Time to start shopping around I think! My impression is that Berbatov is far from alone in his/her view. My mother has voted with her feet and now goes to an excellent NHS dentist in Enfield.
Reply ID 27080
I first went there at 4 years of age and felt totally comfortable with Mr Gevertz who treated me until he left. I'd urge anyone to look elsewhere - this practice is a scam, people should be looked after in health matters, not ripped off! By the way, does anyone here get to pay less NI contributions as there is no NHS dentist around these parts?
Reply ID 27081
quote:I supose this leads logically to ... what is the most customer friendly practice in Hertford? Any recs...?
Originally posted by ladywood
I have used that practice since I was about 14 and had nothing but praise for it until about 18 months ago. Whilst I still feel that I get good treatment there, I have found that the cost has gone through the roof! This year has cost me £700+ and I have another imminent appointment with the hygienist. I'm going to see what I get for the £80 that I'll be charged and then decide what to do in the future. I think the 'new blood' there felt that they walked back into the dark ages when they took over the practice but the impression I get is that many patients were very happy with the treatment they recieved. I know I was. Unfortunately dragging the practice into the 21st century coupled with the Government's approach to dental care on the NHS comes at a price and I reckon we are all paying for it. Time to start shopping around I think! My impression is that Berbatov is far from alone in his/her view. My mother has voted with her feet and now goes to an excellent NHS dentist in Enfield.
Reply ID 27082
Dentists - Ha! People who wanted to be doctors but found the books just too bloody big. On the verge of throwing in the towel on their studies they think "hang on - give me back the pages on teeth".
Reply ID 27083
quote:For those few who haven't run into Mr Lemons, he talks like this in real life too.......[:D]
Originally posted by Herbert Lemons
Dentists - Ha! People who wanted to be doctors but found the books just too bloody big. On the verge of throwing in the towel on their studies they think "hang on - give me back the pages on teeth".
Reply ID 27084
Yup! I make friends easy me. To be fair to mouth doctors, my Bull Plain based girly makes getting paid to spend time in my face an agreeable and unsettlingly intimate experience. Rinse your mouth out!
Reply ID 27085
Ahh.. did wonder about that one; its conveniently close to the proposed new Piglet residence. Any other reviews? Mr Lemons - we will compare mouth cavity experiences shortly.... (!?!)
Reply ID 27086
quote:I'm not sure that I want to know what you two get up to when you are together. Is it a rip-off? No, don't answer that, I cannot cope with the thought. [V]
Originally posted by Capitalist piglet
Ahh.. did wonder about that one; its conveniently close to the proposed new Piglet residence. Any other reviews? Mr Lemons - we will compare mouth cavity experiences shortly.... (!?!)
Reply ID 27087
At the moment I am lucky that the practice I am with is still doing NHS work for existing patients, may not be for much longer though!
Reply ID 27089
I'm gonna breach my own protocol here and attempt to contribute something sensible. Ok here goes.... The Bull Plain dentists (John Hudson it think) has always seemed very reasonable, efficient and pleasant - £40ish fillings - regular NHS rates I guess. I registered 2 years ago on the back of a mint humbug accident which mangled a molar and was amazed to get straight in on the NHS. I'd been private for the previous 10 years so I suppose NHS rates will appear modest compared to my previous experiences of 300 quid for a poke in the kisser. The down side is the time slots demanded by NHS work. Brief don't cover it - you could almost hold your breath from start to finish. Which is probably good advice when your face is full of pliers. That's as sensible as your gonna get.
Reply ID 27092
quote:Mine is his cousin in Ware Road, well trained and from a family of dentists so they do know their trade so to speak!
Originally posted by Herbert Lemons
I'm gonna breach my own protocol here and attempt to contribute something sensible. Ok here goes.... The Bull Plain dentists (John Hudson it think) has always seemed very reasonable, efficient and pleasant - £40ish fillings - regular NHS rates I guess. I registered 2 years ago on the back of a mint humbug accident which mangled a molar and was amazed to get straight in on the NHS. I'd been private for the previous 10 years so I suppose NHS rates will appear modest compared to my previous experiences of 300 quid for a poke in the kisser. The down side is the time slots demanded by NHS work. Brief don't cover it - you could almost hold your breath from start to finish. Which is probably good advice when your face is full of pliers. That's as sensible as your gonna get.
Reply ID 27098
quote:Well thank god for that! I would hate to think that off these pages he adopts an air of normality! Keep up the good work Mr Lemons. Meanwhile, have to agree with the comments made.....unfortunately I am the victim of 60s detistry which was a drill 'em and fill'em policy. Thankfully I have a 'proper' dentist in town - and he's NHS.
Originally posted by Capitalist pigletquote:For those few who haven't run into Mr Lemons, he talks like this in real life too.......[:D]
Originally posted by Herbert Lemons
Dentists - Ha! People who wanted to be doctors but found the books just too bloody big. On the verge of throwing in the towel on their studies they think "hang on - give me back the pages on teeth".
Reply ID 27102
We were NHS at Dental Healthcare until they stopped NHS in April. Baby G is still NHS but no NHS for adults - they would not even honour the end of my maternity exemption. Does anyone know any NHS dentists in Hertford still taking people on ?
Reply ID 27105
There now seems to be no NHS dentist in the town, so does anyone pay less NI contribution for a non NHS dental environment?
Reply ID 27107
quote:It is a secret that will remain between Mr Lemons , myself & our respective dental hygenists....
Originally posted by Berbatovquote:I'm not sure that I want to know what you two get up to when you are together. Is it a rip-off? No, don't answer that, I cannot cope with the thought. [V]
Originally posted by Capitalist piglet
Ahh.. did wonder about that one; its conveniently close to the proposed new Piglet residence. Any other reviews? Mr Lemons - we will compare mouth cavity experiences shortly.... (!?!)
Reply ID 27112
quote:I still go to an NHS dentist in Hertford [:0]
Originally posted by Berbatov
There now seems to be no NHS dentist in the town, so does anyone pay less NI contribution for a non NHS dental environment?
Reply ID 27113
quote:Where? Spill those beans Sarah.
Originally posted by ~Sarah~quote:I still go to an NHS dentist in Hertford [:0]
Originally posted by Berbatov
There now seems to be no NHS dentist in the town, so does anyone pay less NI contribution for a non NHS dental environment?
Reply ID 27114
When the Ware Rd surgery was run by the previous three partners, ouch that Gevertz, Willacy any patients at all today and the late Phil (the tooth) Ranner, it was excellent. I have also abandoned this practice due to it's change to private only and after my ex recieved a huge bill which was unexpectedly "not covered by Denplan". I now see a Mr Patel in Stevenage. National Health patients make up most of his register and I've had good treatment from him throughout. I asked a dentist why he chose his career once and got the reply, "It's how to convert a biology A level into gold."
Reply ID 27116
Ouch! I'm not sure what's the best way to respond, I feel a little winded listening to the comments. I'm worried that the practice will be the talk of the town for the wrong reasons and it puts me in a difficult situation. We set our prices based on the quality of the labs and the materials that we wanted to use. It gives me the dilemma of whether to cut prices and quality or to stick it out and weather the storm. We as a practice made the decision to be the highest quality practice in the area and to do the type of dentistry that we were trained to do (ie a comprehensive approach to treatment). Lots of patients can see the value in this, however Hertford is a small town and the unhappy ones will tell everyone. I don't want to cut prices and quality but on the other hand I don't want the practice to have a bad reputation. I would agree with the 3 toothed lady who was sent to the hygienist, dentistry in general is shifting to preventative care, if this lady had seen the hygienist when she was younger she would have had a lot more teeth left, the priority is to preserve what she has left not just by cleaning the three teeth but educating her why she has lost her teeth and what she can do to hold on to the remaining 3. She would have also had an oral cancer screen and a 6 point pocket depth charting to assess the prognosis of the remaining teeth. There is no doubt in the profession that dentistry of the future is patients seeing the hygienist every 3-6 months to prevent problems from happening and patients just seeing the dentist when treatment is required. Maybe we went too far too quickly but I would have felt bad doing something I didn't believe in for fear of being criticized by patients whilst transitioning to ideal. The fact that an exam cost £50 is incorrect. An exam at the practice costs £35, with the amount of extra time the dentists spend with each patient it should constitute better value than NHS. I cannot emphasise how important patient feedback is to me, I have a wife and baby who need to know that the future is secure and I would be happy to make any changes to the practice to ensure this. Many Thanks Daniel
Reply ID 27117
Daniel, I don't consider it to be morally or ethically fair to educate a woman who was living through a world war when she was younger as to why she lost a couple of molars. Hygeinists weren't around when she was younger. And even if was £35, that's probably half her weekly pension. I think that to 'educate' someone who is 80 on the subject of missing teeth is a disgrace. I am used to the modern sales tactics that are now employed within all walks of life and can easily say "No thanks". Most of the older generation cannot quite see through the sheen. Whilst I am sure that your best intentions are for the healthy upkeep of our teeth and gums, I think that a review of the over-zealous selling tactics might be appropriate. Thanks for replying, it is appreciated.
Reply ID 27119
quote:Me too. One of the dentists at Hudsons in Bull Plain does NHS. (Can't give you a name as it's just changed and I havn't seen the new one yet) But I think they've stopped taking on any new NHS patients. I suspect NHS patients are practice ground for newly qualified dentists... the benefit to having a newly qualified dentist within a practice is that they are fully up to speed on all the new technology and techniques but can still call on an experienced dentist if they need to. That said, I was horrified when a friend of mine qualified as a dentist - she just scraped through with a mark of just over 40%. I think that's a pretty low pass mark when you think of the operations they can carry out.
Originally posted by ~Sarah~quote:I still go to an NHS dentist in Hertford [:0]
Originally posted by Berbatov
There now seems to be no NHS dentist in the town, so does anyone pay less NI contribution for a non NHS dental environment?
Reply ID 27121
Dear Berbatov, Dentistry or any healthcare should not be about sales. Fortunately or unfortunately as the case may be the General Dental Council places a lot of emphasis now on Patient Education so that patients are best informed about their teeth and what choices are available to them. Your Great Aunt would have been treated to the highest possible standards on that day and the experience may have been quite different to what she was used to but infront of a panel of dentists it would have been the gold standard level of care. For your Great Aunt, £40 a year to get things cleaned and screened by the hygienist doesn't sound like a rip off. The practice takes oral cancer screening very seriously as it has a high mortality rate. I diagnosed Oral cancer (a squamous cell carcinoma which is one of the commonest and deadliest types) in the Father of the practice manager; because it was caught in time he had it surgically removed at the hospital before it turned fatal and is now recovering. The whole team totally believe in the level of care provided at the practice as do a lot of our patients. My hope is that eventually the angry patients will as well Dan
Reply ID 27122
quote:Daniel. I am not saying for one moment that you are not administering A1 healthcare, I just feel that the guidance approach may have been more sufficient rather than an appointment with the hygeinist to look at 3 teeth. I used to be treated by Leon Gevertz, and his no nonsense approach suited me; In the chair, out again in 15 to 20 minutes which I appreciate may not be to other peoples' liking. For the record, my brother is a dentist in Manchester and was horrified by what had taken place and the suggestion that root planing was needed for my father's teeth was met with a great deal of anger. He hasn't got a wobbly tooth in site!! Like I said, thanks for the reply, it is good to know that you have the confidence and self-belief to answer any critic yourself and I appreciate that. Do you believe that you may alter your approach to selling your service or shall I assume that I am living in the dark ages and that this will now be the accepted way for dental healthcare in the future?
Originally posted by Daniel
Dear Berbatov, Dentistry or any healthcare should not be about sales. Fortunately or unfortunately as the case may be the General Dental Council places a lot of emphasis now on Patient Education so that patients are best informed about their teeth and what choices are available to them. Your Great Aunt would have been treated to the highest possible standards on that day and the experience may have been quite different to what she was used to but infront of a panel of dentists it would have been the gold standard level of care. For your Great Aunt, £40 a year to get things cleaned and screened by the hygienist doesn't sound like a rip off. The practice takes oral cancer screening very seriously as it has a high mortality rate. I diagnosed Oral cancer (a squamous cell carcinoma which is one of the commonest and deadliest types) in the Father of the practice manager; because it was caught in time he had it surgically removed at the hospital before it turned fatal and is now recovering. The whole team totally believe in the level of care provided at the practice as do a lot of our patients. My hope is that eventually the angry patients will as well Dan
Reply ID 27129
Dark ages is a relative term, I'm sure people will look back in 20 years and be horrified to learn that people had to have their teeth extracted as a result of preventable disease. I am shocked that a dentist would be horrified at the thought of root planing. By the time teeth become lose, it is a little too late. Root planing should be done during the early stages of gum disease to prevent teeth from becomming loose. Perception of dentistry is moving from fixing diseased teeth, to preventing the disease in the first place and rapid interevntion in the early stages which is a much less costly and less uncomfortable experience. Surely this must make sense. I would hope you would be open-minded enough to try one of our hygienists yourself before you make anymore comments about the service.
Reply ID 27130
I too have left the above practice due to their excessive charges. GillP - it's actually not allowed for dentists not to give you free treatment when you have a maternity exemption certificate - if its still valid, you should challenge this. Dentistry is now a two-tiered system. In the coming years it will all be private. This is the end of NHS dentistry as we know it. And for what it's worth, I don't know a single dentist who is happy with the current NHS contract. This is Tony Blair's doing and he is the only one happy with it.
Reply ID 27133
quote:Daniel. I happen to be very open-minded and take my great aunt and my parents's opinion very seriously. They aren't wrong, a check-up is not a given right to rip-off the vulnerable. I can vote with my feet and I will do. Can you simply not determine that even £35 is a lot for an old lady of 80 years of age? I don't expect you to charge nothing but a degree of common sense surely has to be applied to the elderly. If your belief is that "Perception of dentistry is moving from fixing diseased teeth, to preventing the disease in the first place" why charge the old lady to educate her about what happened years ago? I may as well go to a physio and pay to find out why I damaged my knee 16 years ago. Failing that, sell my brand new car now so that I don't lose money in the future. And this attitude to personable professional care is odd in this day and age: "the priority is to preserve what she has left not just by cleaning the three teeth but educating her why she has lost her teeth". When I get down to 3 teeth I'll give your hygeine department a call and I expect a refund first. Are you ok with that?
Originally posted by Daniel
Dark ages is a relative term, I'm sure people will look back in 20 years and be horrified to learn that people had to have their teeth extracted as a result of preventable disease. I am shocked that a dentist would be horrified at the thought of root planing. By the time teeth become lose, it is a little too late. Root planing should be done during the early stages of gum disease to prevent teeth from becomming loose. Perception of dentistry is moving from fixing diseased teeth, to preventing the disease in the first place and rapid interevntion in the early stages which is a much less costly and less uncomfortable experience. Surely this must make sense. I would hope you would be open-minded enough to try one of our hygienists yourself before you make anymore comments about the service.
Reply ID 27137
1) Berbatov, I don't want to get into an argument about how open or closed minded you are. I am here to get people's feedback on why patients are unhappy and what would they recommend to improve things for everyone else. 2) I totally understand that £35 is a lot for a pensioner. Most dentists wished that NHS dentistry would turn out like medicine where doctors treat to the highest standards without the need to talk about cost. Dentists had been asking for NHS change for years and it looked like it was going to change for the better until the government started talking about "Limited Funding" and "Treatment Targets". In two and a half years time practices will no longer be garanteed an NHS contract and that is likely to be when it hits the fan. 3) GillP, I'm sorry that the contract termination fell during your maternity exemption. Dentists did protest (myself included) that the 1st April deadline should be more flexible for patients but this fell on deaf ears at the Ministry of Health. We were told that after 1st April we would only be allowed to see Children under the NHS. 4) A 2-tier system is not necessarily a bad idea, it provides a basic level of care for patients on limited incomes and a higher level of care for everyone else.I don't know whether Berbatov has insured his brand new car with third party or fully comp cover but a 2-tier system works well in car insurance. We've tried to make sure that preventative care is as accessible as possible to those on limited incomes £40 a year would hopefully be affordable to most. It is a compromise though as most patients should ideally spend more time with the hygienist but until free NHS dental care for everyone happens (maybe under a different government) finances will get in the way of providing optimal care.
Reply ID 27138
Daniel........thank you for your rational and constructive comments. The discussion has been enhanced by the your involvement.
Reply ID 27139
Daniel. I am not seeking any arguement either, I am giving you 'a piece of wood' to stand on and explain your company's stance on price and service. I am sick to death of accepting the sales approach as being the norm. I just want my teeth fixed thanks, no sales technique, no talk-talk. As British people, we really just want a dentist to just get on with it. Reception smile is great but that's where it ends. The bus route is outside your door and word of mouth is the best form of marketing. A lot of these old people also still talk without many teeth, 2-tier system or not.
Reply ID 27145
There's a couple of points which I don't understand. Why is the current NHS dentistry system attributed to Tony Blair? It was the previous govenment which set it in motion. The current government inherited it and has had no option, but to continue. It might be reasonable to question how they have managed the problems, but they did not create the current system. Also, when talking about the morality of two tier systems, car insurance is not a reasonable comparison. In car insurance there is no public health, social, or culture impact between choosing fully comp or third party. Dentistry has been pushed towards simiular status as cosmetic surgery. If you are rich, you get good oral health, straight white teeth. Aspiration has led to a point when teeth become a statement of wealth. Soon we will be able to recognise the poor by their teeth (as you already can in the US). When I drive my car, nobody knows how it is insured.
Reply ID 27146
Daniel & Berbatov, [:)] though it is an insight into your relative viewpoints over dentistry service I can't help wondering if better communication/customer service would be gained through discussing this face to face instead of on a forum where tone, facila expression and the reader's sate of mind are all up for interpretation. Erm.. that sounds like I've just called you both a bit mad... Sorry![:)] A two tier system is an interesting proposal but would surely cost the financially challenged more in the log run (like most of these two tier systems do). The lesser level of care they can afford when younger may well lead to poor/zero teeth and eating nothing but soup when we're elderly. I think that we are so used to having the NHS there for us that we (inluding me) have lost sight of the relative cost for manitenance dentistry and long term planning for oral health. The NHS is changing significantly; maybe we need to be re-educated on how to look after ourselves without the support net of the welfare state.
Reply ID 27149
quote:Because it is his government that introduced the new NHS contract with Dentists (in April). For more info see [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4656079.stm"]Q&A: Dentist reforms[/url]
Originally posted by shunt
Why is the current NHS dentistry system attributed to Tony Blair?
Reply ID 27150
quote:Got that one Steve, but these changes were designed to lessen the effect of a flawed system already in place and assist in the under-provision of care for those on lower incomes. It has had limited success. As I say, it is fair to question Mr Blair's management of this issue, since taking power, but not for the introduction of the principle which causes those problems in the first place.
Originally posted by Stevequote:Because it is his government that introduced the new NHS contract with Dentists (in April). For more info see [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4656079.stm"]Q&A: Dentist reforms[/url]
Originally posted by shunt
Why is the current NHS dentistry system attributed to Tony Blair?
Reply ID 27157
this is labour's 3rd term in office. i think it's time they stopped blaming previous governments for their problems. I'm not a Tory supporter by any means, but am sick of it always being someone elses fault. Labour introduced this new contract. Dentists and other relevant bodies told them it wouldn't work. It isn't working. Do something about it. End of rant.
Reply ID 27166
quote:It is not a party political issue anymore. Like railways, no attempt to manage the consequences of previous decisions seems to be working. To return to the original system would be too costly to both the public purse and dentistry, which is now irrevocably market driven, however ridiculous that is to apply that scenario to a public health need. The new contract has some merits, but is not powerful enough and of course private dentists would campaign to resist it, which is part of the reason it ended up so feeble and watered down. Like Pandora's box, once the lid is off, it's hard to put it back on again, without damaging interests which didn't previously exist. Indeed, there are many parts of society which can never be repaired, whoever holds power. One of the main objections to privatisation was not the underlying aspiration, but that it was irreversable and uncontrollable should it fail. It is a moral issue. Daniel mentioned that he saved a man's life by early diagnosis of cancer. A poorer person, unable to afford the fees, would have not been able to access Daniel's expertise and may have died. That can't be right.[V]
Originally posted by Bengeobabe
this is labour's 3rd term in office. i think it's time they stopped blaming previous governments for their problems. I'm not a Tory supporter by any means, but am sick of it always being someone elses fault. Labour introduced this new contract. Dentists and other relevant bodies told them it wouldn't work. It isn't working. Do something about it. End of rant.
Reply ID 27201
i was referring to NHS dentists not being happy with the contract. I worked with a group of NHS dentists in London around this contract. Not one of them thought it was better for the patients, and all said it would force NHS dentists to go private or take a huge pay cut. My local dentist (the other one on the Ware Road, I left the other Ware Road practice when Mr Gevertz left and I was told I would have to go private) are incensed by the new contract, and have copies of a statement explaining their concerns on the main reception desk.
Reply ID 27204
quote:Now that's a different matter. My own NHS dentist has an opposite view. Perhaps it depends on how each individual practice operates, or the balance of NHS/private treatments within that practice. Maybe our dentist contributor can enlighten us
Originally posted by Bengeobabe
i was referring to NHS dentists not being happy with the contract. I worked with a group of NHS dentists in London around this contract. Not one of them thought it was better for the patients, and all said it would force NHS dentists to go private or take a huge pay cut. My local dentist (the other one on the Ware Road, I left the other Ware Road practice when Mr Gevertz left and I was told I would have to go private) are incensed by the new contract, and have copies of a statement explaining their concerns on the main reception desk.
Reply ID 27211
1) Berbatov, Ewoowar, thank-you for the feedback and comments, it is much appreciated. Some patients like to get to know their dentists, some just want to get on with treatment. I hope I know my patients well enough to know which one’s which, I would say I have more of the former but I would be interested to know which group everyone else would put themselves in. 3) When NHS dentistry was introduced post-war it was the government priority and NHS pay was much more than private pay. All the dentists signed on and the quality of dentistry improved greatly. Over the years priority has moved elsewhere and NHS dentistry has changed accordingly. HOWEVER research is now coming out linking gum disease as a major cause of heart disease. A large chunk of the NHS budget is used to treat heart disease, hopefully the Government will start prioritising preventative dentistry to save money on treating heart disease. They are already putting a lot of money into smoking cessation programmes and hygienists are a lot cheaper to pay than doctors or dentists. As evidence mounts we may see a return to free dentistry for all, at least for the gums. 3) Dentist polls have shown the vast majority of dentists are unhappy with the new contract. One of the main things that dentists wanted was a contract that better supports Preventative Dentistry. Prevention was certainly the buzz word that the department of health used all the time to the dental profession. Everything was going swimmingly until the draft contract was released which was very dissapointing, talks broke down between the DOH and the BDA, dentists felt completely ignored. The Department of health still mention Prevention, Prevention, Prevention but I personally think the old contract was more preventative.
Reply ID 27241
As far as I can gather the new contract was designed to encourage greater supply of NHS dentistry, but from what Daniel says, it is having an opposite effect. Certainly there now seems to be a polarisation. At one time, your own practice was doing NHS work with private treatments available and this seemed to be the norm and acceptable to all. Now practices seem to be either NHS or private, but not both. I am well able to afford private dentistry, but still use an NHS practice because of a time when I was not. Being unable to afford your practice, after it went private only, the preventative side of dentistry was not available to me and serious problems developed and I needed extensive emergency treatment. For me this underlined the need for availability to all. The shortage of NHS dentists, existed long before this "contract" and the erosion started way back in the '80s and 90s making it difficult to find NHS treatment locally. Hence my comment that this current government is guilty only of failing to reverse the trend, rather than causing it.
Reply ID 27692
Berbatov, I have been following up about your concerns at the practice and have found that your parents had only paid £35 each. If you are sure that they paid £120 please let me know and I shall look into this further. Looking at the notes, the dentist was indeed concerned about your Father's gums but until he has a full 6 point pocket chart, anyone who cleans around his gums will be working blind. When your Father finds an NHS dentist, I would recommend that he requests a 6 point pocket chart and has root planing in areas where bone loss exceeds 5 mm. Your Great Aunt has 4 remaining teeth that are currently retaining her upper denture. These are important teeth to keep hold of to maintain her quality of life. You are very fortunate that your sister is a dentist whom your Parents and Great Aunt spoke highly of during their appointments. Your family have access to free, high quality dental care which is a rare thing nowadays. I would definitelty recommend making best use of this.