Topic ID 1945
Last week my son's swimming lessons were cancelled due to strike action. I have never supported strike action in my life, however, in this case I really do sympathise. The problems surrounding the contracting out of the pool management from EHDC to Aspire leisure are well covered in the local press, but as a regular user I am truly saddened to see the loss of so many dedicated members of staff that have been there for years and the shocking state that the leisure centre is getting into. This school summer holiday the "fun swims" that my children adore were reduced to just "swims" because the management couldn't afford the right number of lifeguards to cover the use of all the inflateables. I am also shocked at the state the pool is getting into due to lack of maintenance funds - there are cracked and badly patched tiles all along the poolside, the reception area floor is filthy, the showers have been cold the last couple of times I've visited, and there are 3 failed overhead lights above the teaching pool. These are just the things that I've noticed. The word on the grapevine is that it won't be long before Health and Safety go in and shut it down, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the new gym equipment - which is leased - gets collected by the owners for non-payment. As I understand it, the pools in East herts were losing money, Aspire Leisure won the the bid to run it with an unrealistically low figure, EHDC accepted the bid, and now Aspire has gone in to liquidation, having run the pool right down. What I DON'T understand is why a public swimming pool has to make money? Why shouldn't it run at a loss - after all it is a huge asset to the town and provides a vital facility. the longer this situation drags on, the more it's going to cost to sort out. Apart from having to completely revamp the fabric of the pool there will have to be a massive marketing drive to get the customers back, and to recruit enthusiastic, experienced staff. If someone doesn't step and sort this out soon, the costs will be more than just financial.
Reply ID 24862
Excellently stated. Private companies see public services as loaded with local or central government fat that they can trim off. Therefore they always submit low quotes for services with an assumption that they can re-engineer services and management to reduce the costs they inherit. What amazes me is that the council have not taken decisive remedial action before now. I would expect the contract with Aspire to at least have a clause allowing the council to regain control should the service provider become insolvent.
Reply ID 24863
quote:Yes. And I wonder what the situation is at the other 2 local pools they manage locally. How can a public facility run at a "loss" anyway? Surely whoever drew up the budget underestimated the running costs, therefore the budget needs to be increased. The money comes from our Council Tax, and we only moan about increased Council tax payments if we see the money being wasted. It's hard to see how keeping a public pool and gym running smoothly is wasting money. What wastes money is the way the Council operates. I seem to remember when the foyer area of the pool was being painted / emulsioned, the cost of having it done was about 7 or 8k. the staff offered to do it in their own time for extra pay and less than half of the contractor's price but were not allowed to do it because the council has a contract with a decorator - who is quite clearly ripping them off.
Originally posted by Ewoowar What amazes me is that the council have not taken decisive remedial action before now. I would expect the contract with Aspire to at least have a clause allowing the council to regain control should the service provider become insolvent.
Reply ID 24872
The Council really should be brought to rights regarding Hartham. When the gym first opened in 2000, the council were right behind it and it seemed to be a huge success. They marketed the gym and pool with a positive campaign to get the 'Comminity Fit' and everything was great! However, I believe two factors have combined to make Hartham [in the councils eyes] a white elephant and an embarrassment which made them lose interest. 1) The opening of Cannons Gym..... 2) The theft of £300,000 by the complex's manager. When Cannons opened (in 2003 I think?), there was a hoard of regular Hartham customers that joined Cannons which must have made the figures look disasterous compared with past years. When the council discovered the theft, the council seemed to go into their shell with embarrasment. They seemed to lose interest from this point on and blindly palmed the facility off to the lowest bidder So that begs the question... Should there be an enquiry into why they The Council are not fulfilling their responsibilities to the public by providing safe, clean usable swimming / fitness facilities?
Reply ID 24878
I agree re the opening of Cannons, but I believe there is room in the town for 2 gyms. They offer a different experience, and Cannons is more expensive. I agree ref: an enquiry - but imagine how long that would take, and how much more money this would cost us. Meanwhile the decline continues. If only we could wipe the slate clean in some way - EHDC need to regain control. What is the number of households paying Council Tax in EHDC? If every household was asked to pay, say, £3 a year more would this raise enough funds to get it fully functioning again? If the the rise was explained clearly and the pool budget made completely transparent, I can't believe many people would complain.
Reply ID 24882
quote:Yes, actually, I would complain. I don't use the facility, and much as I appreciate it as a useful amenity for the town, I would not want to pay £3 extra on my already exhorbitant counci tax
Originally posted by nora batty
I agree re the opening of Cannons, but I believe there is room in the town for 2 gyms. They offer a different experience, and Cannons is more expensive. I agree ref: an enquiry - but imagine how long that would take, and how much more money this would cost us. Meanwhile the decline continues. If only we could wipe the slate clean in some way - EHDC need to regain control. What is the number of households paying Council Tax in EHDC? If every household was asked to pay, say, £3 a year more would this raise enough funds to get it fully functioning again? If the the rise was explained clearly and the pool budget made completely transparent, I can't believe many people would complain.
Reply ID 24892
Well with these prices at Hartham Induction Fee All members . . . £10.00 Joining Fee Adults and Concessions. . . £20.00 Registered Disabled . . .£20.00 Direct Debit Peak . . . £37.00 per month Off-Peak . . .£30 per month Peak Concession . . . £30 per month Off-Peak Concession . . . £23.50 per month Disabled . . . £12.00 per month Casual Usage Adults . . .£5.70 Adult Off-Peak . . . £4.40 Peak Concessions . . . £4.60 Off-Peak Concession . . . £3.20 Annual Fees Peak . . . £407.00 Off Peak . . . £330.00 Concession Peak . . . £330.00 Concession Off Peak . . . £258.50 I can’t find Cannons fees but I think that they are only a few pounds more for better facilities.
Reply ID 24900
quote:It's the price of a pint of beer. What solution would you offer, Buzz?
Originally posted by buzz Yes, actually, I would complain. I don't use the facility, and much as I appreciate it as a useful amenity for the town, I would not want to pay £3 extra on my already exhorbitant counci tax
Reply ID 24904
what about another 3 quid for our underfunded police
Reply ID 24905
quote:It's not just the a gym. (Which offers some people a better option than Cannons - in my case, it's the proximity to my home, schools, football coaching, and my kids' swimming lessons, which means I can nip in the gym whilst they are busy doing their thing). What about Hertford Swimming Club, Hartham Masters, the state school swimming lessons, the sub-aqua club, pool maintenance training, swimming coach training, disabled swimming facilities, summer holiday clubs, pitch and putt, public tennis court hire...??? Do you think they can all switch to Cannons???
Originally posted by Avery
Well with these prices at Hartham Induction Fee All members . . . £10.00 Joining Fee Adults and Concessions. . . £20.00 Registered Disabled . . .£20.00 Direct Debit Peak . . . £37.00 per month Off-Peak . . .£30 per month Peak Concession . . . £30 per month Off-Peak Concession . . . £23.50 per month Disabled . . . £12.00 per month Casual Usage Adults . . .£5.70 Adult Off-Peak . . . £4.40 Peak Concessions . . . £4.60 Off-Peak Concession . . . £3.20 Annual Fees Peak . . . £407.00 Off Peak . . . £330.00 Concession Peak . . . £330.00 Concession Off Peak . . . £258.50 I can’t find Cannons fees but I think that they are only a few pounds more for better facilities.
Reply ID 24910
Not sure but something should be done about it. Even if it is given back to the Council and they refurbish it, or another contactor who would invest in the site and bring it back up to standard. Or do you think the company is running it down on purpose to sell it off as a asset?
Reply ID 24914
quote:They can't sell what they don't own!
Originally posted by Avery
... Or do you think the company is running it down on purpose to sell it off as a asset?
Reply ID 24918
EHDC could sell it though if the cost of refurbishment were prohibitive?
Reply ID 24949
The vast majority of swimming pools in the country operate on a loss through standard swims (just look at the open-air pool in Hoddesdon - on the verge of closure). It's the peripheral services (gym, swimming lessons, kids parties etc) that give it a profit, if any.
Reply ID 26095
Out of the frying pan... The staff at Hartham Pool have all had a letter telling them that for the time being they are employed by Stevenage Leisure and that they will be consulted on this shortly!!!
Reply ID 26096
So the council have just transferred the contract and nor re-tendered?
Reply ID 26108
I don't know. I doubt they've put out to tender again because they havn't had time, and I think it would have been made public. If they go to tender again I think the Council will almost certainly have to put in their own bid because of the mysterious disappearance of their last one. "To lose one bid is unfortunate, to lose two would look like carelessness." Apologies to Oscar Wilde.
Reply ID 26850
Some better news by the looks of things. http://www.herts-essex-news.co.uk/news/mercury/hertfordshire_mercury/2006/09/22/council%20set%20to%20cut%20ties%20with%20pools%20operator.lpf
Reply ID 26864
Yes - apparently the Council has given the leisure centre managers enough money to bring the premises back up to scratch and we should start seeing the effect of this very soon. It seems the centre staff fully expect Stevenage Leisure to win the permanent contract. Stevenage Leisure tendered last time, but withdrew saying there was no way the centres could be run on the sort of figures being put forward by Aspire. They were right.
Reply ID 28847
I met the head of Stevenage Leisure yesterday and was very impressed with his vision of the standards he intends to put back into Hartham and the other leisure centres. I'm very confident that he will put the pools and gyms up to the levels that we all crave. He definitely is a 'doer' and seemed as if he won't suffer any fools!
Reply ID 28856
At least Stevenage Leisure have a track record of running the services. Perhpas this will have a positive effect on Hertford. So EHDC provide Parking Wardens for StEvenage and StEvenage run our leisure facilities. HMMMMM
Reply ID 28871
quote:Excuse me? Did I miss a post somewhere?
Originally posted by jez_p
So EHDC provide Parking Wardens for StEvenage...
Reply ID 28873
East Herts already provide parking wardens for about 3 councils in Herts. From The Stevenage Borough Council Website http://www.stevenage.gov.uk/transportroadsandfootpaths/parking/onstreetparkingenforcementparkingfines
quote:It appears that if you go to the East Herts online payments page you can pay parking fines for Stevenage, Welwyn and East Herts.
The Council, working in partnership with East Herts Council and Central Parking System (CPS), is responsible for the enforcement of parking restrictions in the town.
Reply ID 28874
quote:Your post has nothing to do with the Leisure facilities.
Originally posted by jez_p
East Herts already provide parking wardens for about 3 councils in Herts. From The Stevenage Borough Council Website http://www.stevenage.gov.uk/transportroadsandfootpaths/parking/onstreetparkingenforcementparkingfinesquote:It appears that if you go to the East Herts online payments page you can pay parking fines for Stevenage, Welwyn and East Herts.
The Council, working in partnership with East Herts Council and Central Parking System (CPS), is responsible for the enforcement of parking restrictions in the town.
Reply ID 28877
quote:As far as I'm aware, East Herts don't have any wardens to provide. The wardens work for CPS and are contracted to EHDC. Do they then "sell them on" to Stevenage? The website refers to a "partnership" with EHDC and CPS, an expression I find somewhat ambigiuous. Maybe someone with first-hand knowledge of this "partnership" could clarify matters.
Originally posted by jez_p
East Herts already provide parking wardens for about 3 councils in Herts.
Reply ID 32227
Has anyone on the forum been to Hartham Swimming Pool now that it under new management? Is it now clean and tidy?
Reply ID 32229
quote:The lights have been repaired, and some of the other major repairs will be undertaken whilst the pool is closed over Christmas. (There are things that can't be done whilst the pool is in use e.g. tiles at the poolside and the showers.) I think one of the main problems has been taking over the finances - there was no-one left that knows how the system works, hence the issues with wages etc. I went to an open meeting between the Business Development Manager for Stevenage Leisure and the gym staff and members. (I think the guys name is Geoff Cain???). Anyway, I came away with the impression that he is very rude and not at all good at public relations. He succeeded in raising the hackles of just about everybody present with his off-hand manner. He stated that he could not make any promises until the extent of the work had been assessed, which is fair enough I suppose. His main message seemed to be that they've picked up a real mess and have come in as heroes. He did promise that he would put up a time-line of scheduled works, but no sign of this yet.
Originally posted by Ray_by_the_Beane
Has anyone on the forum been to Hartham Swimming Pool now that it under new management? Is it now clean and tidy?
Reply ID 32252
quote:There is a schedule of works hanging-up on the gym window .... unfortunately (much to the disgust of the gym attendants) only a small proportion of the work has been done ... new regime, same old problems.
Originally posted by nora battyquote:The lights have been repaired, and some of the other major repairs will be undertaken whilst the pool is closed over Christmas. (There are things that can't be done whilst the pool is in use e.g. tiles at the poolside and the showers.) I think one of the main problems has been taking over the finances - there was no-one left that knows how the system works, hence the issues with wages etc. I went to an open meeting between the Business Development Manager for Stevenage Leisure and the gym staff and members. (I think the guys name is Geoff Cain???). Anyway, I came away with the impression that he is very rude and not at all good at public relations. He succeeded in raising the hackles of just about everybody present with his off-hand manner. He stated that he could not make any promises until the extent of the work had been assessed, which is fair enough I suppose. His main message seemed to be that they've picked up a real mess and have come in as heroes. He did promise that he would put up a time-line of scheduled works, but no sign of this yet.
Originally posted by Ray_by_the_Beane
Has anyone on the forum been to Hartham Swimming Pool now that it under new management? Is it now clean and tidy?
Reply ID 33716
Any news.......have things improved?
Reply ID 33717
No. And to add insult to injury, they have hiked the price of swimming lessons up. Big mistake, in my opinion, when swimmers are leaving in droves. It was £45 for 12 lessons, now it is £45 for 10 lessons. The staff tell me that many repairs couldn't be undertaken at Christmas because they couldn't get the contractors to work during the Christmas break, and that many of the problems need more than remedial work.
Reply ID 33728
quote:And you can bet that come the end of March that the price will go up again. When I booked lessons for my eldest son in 1997, he was on a six month waiting list because the pool was so popular. Now they have no waiting list and they are even advertising around some of the primary schools to get more customers. Swimming lessons are not a luxury and if you have more then one child the cost is getting out of hand. They have swimming lessons at school, but 1 term a year doesn't seem adequate. Although the lessons at school are better value for money.
Originally posted by nora batty
No. And to add insult to injury, they have hiked the price of swimming lessons up. Big mistake, in my opinion, when swimmers are leaving in droves. It was £45 for 12 lessons, now it is £45 for 10 lessons.
Reply ID 33734
Sorry to disagree, but i think swimming lessons ARE a luxury, if you want your kids to swim why not teach them yourself? With regard to the pool at hartham (and the lessons) i took Mini Mad down there on tuesday for his regular lesson and i thought it was much cleaner, warmer (as was the water!) etc, I think maybe we should give them a chance and see how we are in summer!
Reply ID 33736
quote:Assuming you are a capable swimmer. I can manage a poor to fair breast stroke, my front crawl is useless and I can't swim on my back at all. I was taught by my dad by the way. I want better for my kids and I think swimming lessons should not be a luxury. Unfortunately you have no choice but to shell out as the standard lessons received when they are at primary school (taken at Hartham)are rubbish. Nice to see you back Mick by the way! [:)]
Originally posted by Mad Mick
Sorry to disagree, but i think swimming lessons ARE a luxury, if you want your kids to swim why not teach them yourself?
Reply ID 33738
cheers Leo! (i am not back however!) I am also a crap swimmer, but i dont sink!! I just think that expecting "better" lessons is something of a luxury, whilst wanting my kids to do everything better than me, i think that expecting to do it better than me without paying for it is unreasonable! mini Mad has a further 10 lessons (yes £45) i think that £4.50 each is more than reasonable and having watched said lessons, think that they are great value for money, small groups, friendly but firm tutors all in all good stuff!!
Reply ID 33752
quote:[:(!] Swimming lessons aren't a luxury, a High Definition TV is a luxury!!! Can an HDTV save you if you are drowning?.....I don't fink so! In a town with as much water around it as Hertford, I think the service provided by the staff at Hartham in teaching kids to swim is an invaluable one. I'd teach my kids to swim but for two reasons, one being a medical problem and the other being a time problem. But the costing of the lessons is becoming a problem. EHDC need to sort prices out, otherwise parents will not be able to afford lessons and the statistics for drownings could increase, as children seem to be drawn to water
Originally posted by Mad Mick
Sorry to disagree, but i think swimming lessons ARE a luxury
Reply ID 33767
At the risk of going off topic, IF you dont consider swimming lessons a luxury, then you have to give up another luxury in order to pay for it! I dont think (as i have said) that £45 is a lot to spend on improving my childs swimming technique! However were it the case that my child could not swim at all, then i would gladly spend 10 times that in order for them to learn, and still not think it expensive! Remember (and im assuming that you do live in the area?) WE vote these people in, and we can also vote them out. if these prices are of concern to you, you should make your local councilor aware. you never know maybe they might do something if enough people complain!
Reply ID 33771
Swimming lessons at Haileybury are far better quality.
Reply ID 33772
quote:Quality of teaching or quality of facilities? How much are lessons at HB?
Originally posted by CityBird
Swimming lessons at Haileybury are far better quality.
Reply ID 33773
We tried to get Mini Mad and Miss mad into Haileybury as we had also been told how good they where, However at the time they where full and they never rang us back (despite ringing them a few times) to re-book if/when they had space. I am lead to believe Nora that Both teaching AND facilities are better
Reply ID 33777
My 2 girls swim at Haileybury - facilities are great, big open changing rooms, no squeezing into tiny cubicles with dodgy locks. Lessons are limited to 6 children per teacher. Timings are either weekend or 5.30 / 6pm weekday evenings, so manageable after school. Teachers are really good and approachable. You need to talk to someone called Neil at Haileybury. He organises the lessons and if you phone when he's there you tend to get a result. He's very good at putting siblings on lessons at the same time as well.
Reply ID 33779
Couldn't agree more about Haileybury. My eldest spent a year in the baby pool at Hartham with the water just up to his knees and unable to hear a word the teacher said because of the general Saturday morning din. We transferred to Haileybury where he couldn't touch the bottom and he was off. The teachers actually get in the water with them and they each get a chance to try without the armbands each week. Lovely
Reply ID 33786
In my experience there is a general refusal to accept the capabilities of a child at Hartham if they don't attend their own courses. I believe they were also issuing their own East Herts certificates of achievement that were not nationally recognised. My son was swimming last term at Hartham on the weekly lesson arranged through his school, whilst also attending private swimming lessons on a saturday held at Sheredes school in Hoddesdon. At Sheredes he is happily swimming lengths (backstroke and crawl)and diving in but at Hartham they kept him in the baby pool for most of the time. We only let him attend Hartham to make him feel included with his classmates - the benefit to his swimming gained there was diddly squat and they don't deserve the business in my view.
Reply ID 33789
leo, Whilst in earlier reply i have praised Hartham for value etc (and im still not back BTW) I have to agree with you on the benefit he (mini Mad) is gaining from it! we DID want to further his swimming ability (which has now happened) however, the further attendace to these courses is more in line with what you suggest above (inclusion) and the other fact regarding Hailebury (see above). this last has however been resolved with help from Jackie (thanks again)
Reply ID 33861
I to sent my son to learn to swim at Hartham, and pulled him out after his length of lessons were up, they didnt even notice he wasnt in the baby pool, but running along the side, also there was a different teacher each lesson, no continuity, and I found some of the teachers aggressive ie, treating me like I was my sons age of 4 at the time, and the management unhelpful. He is now in a swimming club in Harlow which is brilliant and his progression has been amazing, because they are strict and demand the best from the kids, the lessons arent cheap and the journeys a bit of a bind after school, but i feel well worth it..Thru his school however he now has to attend Hartham for swimming lessons, and is not allowed to use his goggles or swim in the deep end unless he has their deep water badge.. I find this amusing as he is now training for the first of his life saver medals..
Reply ID 33877
Maybe local schools will have to stop using Hartham if enough parents complain about the lessons.
Reply ID 33881
It wouldnt surprise me CityBird, some of the mum's already have been, and it's only been the first lesson, the kids get marched from Bengeo Primary all the way down there in all weathers. I feel sorry for them , they are tired before they even get there.
Reply ID 33883
quote:For goodness sake! It's hardly a route march over the Himalayas. It's called exercise, and it's what stops the kids from being the obese little b@st@rds that everyone is complaining about
Originally posted by bengeomum
It wouldnt surprise me CityBird, some of the mum's already have been, and it's only been the first lesson, the kids get marched from Bengeo Primary all the way down there in all weathers. I feel sorry for them , they are tired before they even get there.
Reply ID 33884
quote:Are you really being serious Bengeomum or are you on a wind-up??? Is your idea of exercise for the poor little people to take vem on a wittle dwive for one tiny, tiny minute down to the swimmy place in that big 4-weeeled metal thing parked on the dwive? Please teach them to walk first rather than swim. Walking is a bit more essential in the whole exercise scale of things.
Originally posted by bengeomum
It wouldnt surprise me CityBird, some of the mum's already have been, and it's only been the first lesson, the kids get marched from Bengeo Primary all the way down there in all weathers. I feel sorry for them , they are tired before they even get there.
Reply ID 33888
quote:You have been warned about your attitude on two previous occasions. This sarcastic comment is yet another example of your insulting remarks to other posters. If you cannot be civil to people then please do not post here.
Originally posted by James007
Is your idea of exercise for the poor little people to take vem on a wittle dwive for one tiny, tiny minute down to the swimmy place in that big 4-weeeled metal thing parked on the dwive?
Reply ID 33894
Admin: I have posted two messages here, both the same, and both seemed to get removed. Are you censoring me?
Reply ID 33896
quote:Both of them sarcastic, off-topic and belittling my judgement and authority. It's not censorship, it's editing. You agreed to that when you signed up. You don't have any "right" to post here, you have a "priviledge". Anyone who abuses that priviledge will have it removed. When you join the forum you agree to a set of [url="policy.asp"]terms and conditions[/url]. If someone repeatedly choses not to abide by that agreement and refuses to accept the authority and judgement of the site administrator, then membership will be reviewed. Please remember that you pay nothing to use this forum. You are a guest here and are expected to act like one. Your host on the other hand DOES have to pay for the running of the site and doesn't take kindly to his hospitality being repeatedly abused. Or to put in another way - My Forum, My Rules. If you don't like the way the forum is run, don't use it.
Originally posted by buzz
Admin: I have posted two messages here, both the same, and both seemed to get removed. Are you censoring me?
Reply ID 33899
quote:So, it's a case of "it's my ball and I'll make the rules" Just because you have a particular view, you don't have the right to CENSOR, (not edit) peoples posts. It's about time you either grew up or gave up this website
Originally posted by Adminquote:Both of them sarcastic, off-topic and belittling my judgement and authority. It's not censorship, it's editing. You agreed to that when you signed up. You don't have any "right" to post here, you have a "priviledge". Anyone who abuses that priviledge will have it removed. When you join the forum you agree to a set of [url="policy.asp"]terms and conditions[/url]. If someone repeatedly choses not to abide by that agreement and refuses to accept the authority and judgement of the site administrator, then membership will be reviewed. Please remember that you pay nothing to use this forum. You are a guest here and are expected to act like one. Your host on the other hand DOES have to pay for the running of the site and doesn't take kindly to his hospitality being repeatedly abused. Or to put in another way - My Forum, My Rules. If you don't like the way the forum is run, don't use it.
Originally posted by buzz
Admin: I have posted two messages here, both the same, and both seemed to get removed. Are you censoring me?
Reply ID 33900
And please, spell "privilege" correctly
Reply ID 33901
quote:So you're seriously suggesting I close down Discover Hertford Online because in your judgement I'm not being fair? Because the forum has Terms and Conditions that you're not prepared to abide by even though you agreed to them? Or to put it another way, If you went into your local pub and regularly criticised the way the publican ran his establishment, telling him to "grow up or give up the pub", what reaction would you expect to get?
Originally posted by buzz
So, it's a case of "it's my ball and I'll make the rules" Just because you have a particular view, you don't have the right to CENSOR, (not edit) peoples posts. It's about time you either grew up or gave up this website
Reply ID 33902
quote:If you really don't want your children to go swimming with the school you can refuse your permission. You don't sign the consent form then they have to find something else for your child to do in school.
Originally posted by bengeomum
It wouldnt surprise me CityBird, some of the mum's already have been, and it's only been the first lesson, the kids get marched from Bengeo Primary all the way down there in all weathers. I feel sorry for them , they are tired before they even get there.
Reply ID 33903
quote:Why should anyone respect your judgement on any issue? We don't know who you are are what credentials you have. Just because you host a website does not actually make you God
Originally posted by Adminquote:So you're seriously suggesting I close down Discover Hertford Online because in your judgement I'm not being fair? Because the forum has Terms and Conditions that you're not prepared to abide by even though you agreed to them? Or to put it another way, If you went into your local pub and regularly criticised the way the publican ran his establishment, telling him to "grow up or give up the pub", what reaction would you expect to get?
Originally posted by buzz
So, it's a case of "it's my ball and I'll make the rules" Just because you have a particular view, you don't have the right to CENSOR, (not edit) peoples posts. It's about time you either grew up or gave up this website
Reply ID 33904
We are ALL guests on this site and ALL agreed to abide by the rules. OK, someone's humour could be another person's insult but this is not the place to make PERSONAL remarks. I apologise if I have ever done so. It is supposed to be fun and informative and we do not pay for it, so I think we should be thankful that someone provides time and money for this service to us. Thanks Admin.
Reply ID 33905
Sorry Admin, off topic!!! Rant over.
Reply ID 33906
As a matter of interest Duncombe School also use Hartham but I have noticed in the winter they take the children down in coaches, Bengeo Primary children only ever seem to have lessons in the winter, at least my niece only ever had one term per year and always this coldest one, and they are made to walk if I remember rightly all the way down via St Leonard's Church to avoid Port Hill which is considered too dangerous I believe.
Reply ID 33907
quote:Yawn [:(]
Originally posted by buzz
And please, spell "privilege" correctly
Reply ID 33908
quote:I don't think I'd want to be marshalling 30 seven year olds down Port Hill either! My son's class walk to Hartham from Abel Smith - not a great distance admittedly but they are pretty cold on the way back at this time of year.
Originally posted by Marilyn
As a matter of interest Duncombe School also use Hartham but I have noticed in the winter they take the children down in coaches, Bengeo Primary children only ever seem to have lessons in the winter, at least my niece only ever had one term per year and always this coldest one, and they are made to walk if I remember rightly all the way down via St Leonard's Church to avoid Port Hill which is considered too dangerous I believe.
Reply ID 33909
quote:It is the way back - getting out of the pool and coming out into the cold is off-putting enough for me and I can still (just about) remember that torture at School - Freezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:I don't think I'd want to be marshalling 30 seven year olds down Port Hill either! My son's class walk to Hartham from Abel Smith - not a great distance admittedly but they are pretty cold on the way back at this time of year.
Originally posted by Marilyn
As a matter of interest Duncombe School also use Hartham but I have noticed in the winter they take the children down in coaches, Bengeo Primary children only ever seem to have lessons in the winter, at least my niece only ever had one term per year and always this coldest one, and they are made to walk if I remember rightly all the way down via St Leonard's Church to avoid Port Hill which is considered too dangerous I believe.
Reply ID 33910
Exactly, they can wrap up warm to get there but walking back when they are almost bound to be cold and damp I would not have thought was the best idea. One term she did have it at the end of the day but that meant someone had to go down and pick her up from the pool as they were not taken back to school, which is fine except when you also need to be at school to pick up younger brothers / sister. Thankfully we always managed to help out by picking up one or the other but all parents are as lucky as my sister to have family close at hand to help out being in 2 places at once
Reply ID 33912
quote:Actually, it does make you God within the universe of the Forum you have created.
Originally posted by buzz Why should anyone respect your judgement on any issue? We don't know who you are are what credentials you have. Just because you host a website does not actually make you God
Reply ID 33923
quote:Why? Doesn't god allow opinions Nora??
Originally posted by nora battyquote:Actually, it does make you God within the universe of the Forum you have created.
Originally posted by buzz Why should anyone respect your judgement on any issue? We don't know who you are are what credentials you have. Just because you host a website does not actually make you God
Reply ID 33926
quote:
Originally posted by James007quote:Think you mean God - Does HE? Whoever he may be Why? Doesn't god allow opinions Nora??
Originally posted by nora battyquote:Actually, it does make you God within the universe of the Forum you have created.
Originally posted by buzz Why should anyone respect your judgement on any issue? We don't know who you are are what credentials you have. Just because you host a website does not actually make you God
Reply ID 33928
quote:What does that mean please Tigger?
Originally posted by Tiggerquote:
Originally posted by James007quote:Think you mean God - Does HE? Whoever he may be Why? Doesn't god allow opinions Nora??
Originally posted by nora battyquote:Actually, it does make you God within the universe of the Forum you have created.
Originally posted by buzz Why should anyone respect your judgement on any issue? We don't know who you are are what credentials you have. Just because you host a website does not actually make you God
Reply ID 33929
Wow this is a local forum, and I joined just for that reason..But personal attacks on my child or me I most certainly did not expect..I shall refrain from any childish comeback however as I feel I would be bringing myself down to a certain level.. Yes Leo my comment was more to do with the weather as you have stated rather than the distance, perhaps I should have mentioned that in my post, thanks for your's and the others on here support with my post.
Reply ID 33933
This is becoming a bit sensationalist. I was not being sarcastic as the admin suggested Bengeomum, simply logical. I have a concern with kids not walking anymore just for a few spots of rain.
Reply ID 33934
quote:People have a right to post their views here without sarcastic or patronising remarks from you, James007. Your views are not the issue here but the offensive way in which you express yourself. If you were a little more thoughtful about the tone of your posts there would be no problem. It's not what you say it's the way that you say it. As you have refused to alter your rude behaviour despite repeated requests, I would suggest you stop posting here.
Originally posted by James007quote:Why? Doesn't god allow opinions Nora??
Originally posted by nora battyquote:Actually, it does make you God within the universe of the Forum you have created.
Originally posted by buzz Why should anyone respect your judgement on any issue? We don't know who you are are what credentials you have. Just because you host a website does not actually make you God
Reply ID 33941
James007....I appreciate it, I really do, your genuine concern for the health and welfare of my child.. I Will be passing on the warmth of your no doubt sincerity to his kick boxing coach, his two swimming teachers and his Beavers Scout leader.. Should I at any point in the future worry that he maybe becoming obsese, or any of those children were all apparantly fed up with hearing about, I will most certainly be looking to you for forthright expert advise and support, oh and the local weather report of course.
Reply ID 33942
quote:aministration, tone is judged by ear, sarcasm is judged by face, and emotion from a typed message on a computer is gained by not one person anywhere and that is a fact. I expressed an opinion relating to someone claiming that small children had to walk to a swimming pool. You got it wrong I am afraid.
Originally posted by Adminquote:People have a right to post their views here without sarcastic or patronising remarks from you, James007. Your views are not the issue here but the offensive way in which you express yourself. If you were a little more thoughtful about the tone of your posts there would be no problem. It's not what you say it's the way that you say it. As you have refused to alter your rude behaviour despite repeated requests, I would suggest you stop posting here.
Originally posted by James007quote:Why? Doesn't god allow opinions Nora??
Originally posted by nora battyquote:Actually, it does make you God within the universe of the Forum you have created.
Originally posted by buzz Why should anyone respect your judgement on any issue? We don't know who you are are what credentials you have. Just because you host a website does not actually make you God
Reply ID 33946
quote:So you're telling me there's no "attitude" in... Is your idea of exercise for the poor little people to take vem on a wittle dwive for one tiny, tiny minute down to the swimmy place in that big 4-weeeled metal thing parked on the dwive? ...or maybe you just made alot of spelling mistakes, right?
Originally posted by James007
aministration, tone is judged by ear, sarcasm is judged by face, and emotion from a typed message on a computer is gained by not one person anywhere and that is a fact. I expressed an opinion relating to someone claiming that small children had to walk to a swimming pool. You got it wrong I am afraid.
Reply ID 33947
No, there was no attitude silly. Just a simple message.
Reply ID 33948
quote:So why write "take vem on a wittle dwive" instead of "take them on little drive"? Why refer to the swimming pool as a "swimmy place"? Why refer to a four-wheel drive vehicle as a "big 4-wheeled metal thing"? And how do you know whether or not the poster has a four-wheel drive vehicle or a drive?
Originally posted by James007
No, there was no attitude silly. Just a simple message.
Reply ID 33949
Hi All...... Yes its me The Mad One...might i say a couple of things? 1. this thraed is supposed to be about Hartham Pool are we all a little off topic? 2. and this may surprise a lot of people!!! James I do think that your reply to bengeomum was a little harsh, However, as in my thread does hertford take itself etc...etc... I would like to hope that this was only harmless "mickey Taking" 3. Admin I cant help thinking you are "feeding the Troll??""....4. Shall i keep going or just stop here??
Reply ID 33950
I think you are taking your website a bit too seriously. It may be a free site but I should, in a democracy, be able to comment without any Labour shut-down.
Reply ID 33952
quote:It may surprise alot of people that I agree with you! (although I'm not sure it's OK to take the mickey out of someone you haven't yet earned a little respect from)
Originally posted by Mad Mick
Hi All...... Yes its me The Mad One...might i say a couple of things? 1. this thraed is supposed to be about Hartham Pool are we all a little off topic? 2. and this may surprise a lot of people!!! James I do think that your reply to bengeomum was a little harsh, However, as in my thread does hertford take itself etc...etc... I would like to hope that this was only harmless "mickey Taking" 3. Admin I cant help thinking you are "feeding the Troll??""....4. Shall i keep going or just stop here??
Reply ID 33954
Fair point...if still off topic!
Reply ID 33958
quote:Is there a height issue between you and Mick?
Originally posted by Adminquote:It may surprise alot of people that I agree with you! (although I'm not sure it's OK to take the mickey out of someone you haven't yet earned a little respect from)
Originally posted by Mad Mick
Hi All...... Yes its me The Mad One...might i say a couple of things? 1. this thraed is supposed to be about Hartham Pool are we all a little off topic? 2. and this may surprise a lot of people!!! James I do think that your reply to bengeomum was a little harsh, However, as in my thread does hertford take itself etc...etc... I would like to hope that this was only harmless "mickey Taking" 3. Admin I cant help thinking you are "feeding the Troll??""....4. Shall i keep going or just stop here??
Reply ID 33966
Sorry James...dont get that?? I can stand up in the deep end i think (if we are talking pools??) anyway admin...as im now posting off topic why not lock the thread!???
Reply ID 33969
I was referring to a height difference between yourself and the administration person.
Reply ID 33979
And how would you know about my height might i enquire?? (or his /hers come to that??)
Reply ID 34035
To get this back on topic. All our children have had lessons at Hartham on Tuesday evenings and all have benefited from learning to swim with good technique, especially compared to my flailing, head out of the water non trained lack of technique. I have not noticed any particular lack of continuity of instructors and they have always seemed pretty strict to me. I don't see that the awards scheme being non standard is a problem, as we are not moving around from pool to pool and they give children something to aim for. There always seem to be plenty of people down the pool on Tuesdays and the current system for paying is way preferable to the old long queue snaking across Hartham Common at 7am system there was a few years ago.
Reply ID 34037
quote:The key difference Andrew is that your children are known to the Hartham instructors through regular lessons. My point is that children who attend other swimming classes are disadvantaged by Hartham (during the school curriculam sessions)in that they use a non-standard swimming scheme. As a result, they cannot, or will not, recognise a particular childs abilities in my experience and the school swimming sessions become pointless. If they adhered to the standard schemes the parents would be able to prove that their child had reached a standard to swim 25/50m or whatever, and Hartham could pitch their tuition accordingly.
Originally posted by Andrew
To get this back on topic. All our children have had lessons at Hartham on Tuesday evenings and all have benefited from learning to swim with good technique, especially compared to my flailing, head out of the water non trained lack of technique. I have not noticed any particular lack of continuity of instructors and they have always seemed pretty strict to me. I don't see that the awards scheme being non standard is a problem, as we are not moving around from pool to pool and they give children something to aim for. There always seem to be plenty of people down the pool on Tuesdays and the current system for paying is way preferable to the old long queue snaking across Hartham Common at 7am system there was a few years ago.
Reply ID 34146
Hartham Pool is switching to the ASA National Swimming Awards scheme very soon.
Reply ID 41188
From the headlines in the Mercury, it seems Hartham is out of money again! In the richest county in Britain and in one of it's richest towns, the only swimming pool is destined to close for the holidays.
Reply ID 41782
is this pool / health club going to have to go the way of so many other business in town going to a big brand. pushing prices up, but if the council aren't bothered????
Reply ID 41787
The Council have never been bothered with running anything, look at their lack of enthusiasm to run the Corn Exchange for example, they were just looking for a way to get the swimming pools of East Herts off their hands and now they reap the rewards of selling it off cheap! I feel most sorry for the kids, the mums and dads and others who use the facilities regularly and also the fact that some of us remember the debacle of being told that as it was open air at one time, it would be made dual use, so that on hot sunny days you could have the roof off... It was a very bad move by our council to sell our assets off like this and I am saddened that as a County Town our facilities for the taxpayers paying for them are at best bad, at worst non-existent. Shame on them![V]
Reply ID 41788
quote:I thought the council had tendered for managment of the services rather than sold the asset off.
Originally posted by Drama Queen
The Council have never been bothered with running anything, look at their lack of enthusiasm to run the Corn Exchange for example, they were just looking for a way to get the swimming pools of East Herts off their hands and now they reap the rewards of selling it off cheap! I feel most sorry for the kids, the mums and dads and others who use the facilities regularly and also the fact that some of us remember the debacle of being told that as it was open air at one time, it would be made dual use, so that on hot sunny days you could have the roof off... It was a very bad move by our council to sell our assets off like this and I am saddened that as a County Town our facilities for the taxpayers paying for them are at best bad, at worst non-existent. Shame on them![V]
Reply ID 41791
quote:The Corn Exchange was leased to the Town Council, not the District Council.
Originally posted by Drama Queen
The Council have never been bothered with running anything, look at their lack of enthusiasm to run the Corn Exchange for example
quote:Correct
Originally posted by Ewoowar
I thought the council had tendered for managment of the services rather than sold the asset off.
Reply ID 41915
Interesting letter in The Mercury today from a Hunsdon Councillor about shortcomings in the way the decision was made to cut back opening hours, alleging that the decision was rushed through without proper scrutiny. Apparently, a number of councillors are using formal procedures to have the decision "called in".
Reply ID 41918
If anyone knows then she does being the incumbent Tory councillor on the scrutiny committee and being a qualified accountant and leaving the Tories to stand as an Independent.