Topic ID 180
£140,000 for a crossing next to a subway! no money for cab ,to open the toilets on a sunday or empty the bins etc etc..
Reply ID 926
Doh this is just so dumb.
Reply ID 1032
Actually, I all for it! Reason one. The kids are using the underpasses for drug taking all the time, so they have become a bit of a no go area at night. Reason two. Make the traffic worse! If this is the only way we can get the attention for a bypass, I say add another 3 crossings.
Reply ID 1037
[Quote] Reason two. Make the traffic worse! If this is the only way we can get the attention for a bypass, I say add another 3 crossings. I thought Gascoyne Way was a 'bypass'! You mean we should have a bypass to bypass the bypass.... and when that fills up go for a triple bypass!
Reply ID 1050
I'm not sure where Dude gets his "kids"and "drugs" from but being a frequent user of the subway in question I would very much disagree. It is a well lit area and I have never had a problem let alone with "kids". My experience is that drugs and problems with them relate more to the 20-30 yr group.If he would like to travel from Horns Mill to town with a pushchair he might see the need to have a crossing - that's if he doesn't get angry at having to constantly enter the road in West Street because of residents parking on the pavement!
Reply ID 1058
I use the subways frequently and the worst I've seen is disgarded take-away food wrappers - never drug dealers/users. They can get a bit whiffy from people urinating in them but I can honestly say I've never felt intimidated by others using the subway - you can't go through life scared. I can think of many other things that the £140K could be spent on. I mainly use the ones by the tax office and the one by All Saints Church. The more people use them the safer they will be. The crossing will be a nightmare.
Reply ID 1153
When I say drug taking, its not like its an everyday thing, but I've witnessed it at least 5 times, and I'm not a big user of the subway anymore, even though I go into the town most days. I used to live on the North west of town, and take the Subway nearest west street. I now live on the southside and use the subways at All Saints and Iceland. The drugs in question have only been canabis, but when its being smoked by 9 or 10 lads blocking the subway (usually when its raining), it can be intimidating. On a couple of occasions, some of the guys have tried blocking my way, or butting into me. Now, I climb over the barriers and cross the road instead. In my opinion, its the lesser risk. What some people seem to forget is that we already have two crossings over the A414, and they cause little or no problem to the traffic. Besides, the saftey and well being of the local resident should come before the commuter who is simply using Hertford as a cut through. If the first two crossings do not casue a problem, whats wrong with a couple more? I think the West Street one should go ahead, and I think they should add another, which link the southside, between the gasgoigne way car park, and Able Smith School. It can serve the people on the south who use any of the three current subways, its helps the schools, and it can help open up the town. If the crossing went from the post office, straight through the lower level of the of the car par, and across the road to the school and church, it will serve a great many people. Those very people who pay the local council tax, rather than the majority of drivers, who don't. Just a view! Edited by - Dude on 30 Jun 2004 19:18:16
Reply ID 1161
Drivers don't pay council tax??? Que??
Reply ID 1162
I think he's meaning the motorist/commuters passing though daily. (not paying their council tax to East Herts council.)
Reply ID 1163
And while we are at it - let's have a crossing over the London Road to Mangrove Road for all the Simon Balle kids. It might help to stop the cars racing up and down the hill there.
Reply ID 1167
I would have thought the majority of drivers in a place like Hertford DO pay their council tax to our local authority - and certainly to one or other of the Hertfordshire district councils --- all of which pay towards Hertforshire highways. If it;s merely a question of who does and does not pay council tax then surely we should cut school children out of the equasion? So, no school crossings? I don't think so....
Reply ID 1184
I remember a 414 survey that estimated 83% of Hertford traffic is from non residents, using the road as an alternative to the M25 in many cases. Those are the people I am refering to. They seem to be more catered for than the locals, who are funding the road schemes.
Reply ID 1197
Well, that depends -- and to be honest, I don't know if the 414 is a locally-adopted road (in which case it's paid for by the county-wide Hertfordshire Highways) or a trunk road (in which case the govt/national taxpayer pays). It would be interesting to know which is the case. Anyone know? In either case, it's not specifically Hertford residents who pay for it.
Reply ID 1200
Din't the green signs mean it is a trunk road?
Reply ID 1210
iI thought this was a debate about the crossing but it has obviously moved onto wider aspects which I feel is good. If it has raised concerns over you and your childrens safety then you need to raise these with your local counsellor. As a car driver I try and look at the wider picture - take going to Tesco, parking your car and trying to cross to the shop - can be difficult because some car drivers seem to believe you have no right of way. We are all there by the same mode of transport but not all as aggressive. If this is how you see the car when you are behind the wheel.....sad isn't it?
Reply ID 1216
Aggresive drivers. This is the reason I don't think the crossing should be built. The crossing will be too close to the Hale Road roundabout AND on a bend. Drivers west will queue at the roundabout and, due to the nature of the traffic flow, will accelerate onto the roundabout and this will carry on around the bend. They will then be met by a crossing which will occassionally be red. Much screeching of tyres, clashing metal and far worse. No amount of education will stop certain drivers driving this way. It's inevitable. Why not a bridge? It is a crossing and the ne'er do wells won't want to congregate on it.
Reply ID 1222
John, I can understand fully your sentiments. I will only go back a year when I supported the traffic lights at the London Road roundabout - I believe I said then that it was a good idea but only if the County Hall roundabout was also given trafic lights and a flow pattern was established. No chance. I also said it would only work for a short period because the planners had not, repeat not, allowed for the extra traffic off the Addis site. Whilst I believe I have been proven corect I still support the crossing - drivers will have to aloow for the extra 5 mins!
Reply ID 1236
1. I don't think that green signs mean it is necessarily a trunk road - only that it's an "A" road - not nec. the same thing. 2. Couldn't agree more with the person who speaks about need to drive in a respectful and thoughtful manner. By and large, I've found drivers here in E Herts very courteous - quite unlike motorists in London, where we moved from. I believe one reason for this is the relative lack of obstacles, 'traffic calming', traffic lights, bus lanes etc etc which, in London, all add to the sense of stress and mania around driving. Another reason, of course, is that simply being a good human being is likely to make one a more considerate motorist!
Reply ID 1242
http://enquire.hertscc.gov.uk/ltp/full/strats/detrunk.htm According to this link, I reckon the A414 through Hertford is not a trunk road. The statement "Overall, the county will be left with just two short lengths of trunk roads (A1 and A5),..." says to me that the A414 isn't a trunk road It means that the County Council in Hertfordshire is responsibile for the maintenance and development of the road. Isn't the internet great?
Reply ID 1310
I use the subway frequently and would still prefer to safely travel under a major road than across it. Especially when I have to hope that someone has seen the red light and will stop when I am halfway across. I do not understand why we need to spend so much money on something that is already provided. Certainly not when there is so much more the money could be spent on. Edited by - Tweezle on 06 Aug 2004 13:44:27 Edited by - Tweezle on 06 Aug 2004 13:56:49
Reply ID 1312
I saw a toucan crossing being installed in kent underneath a perfectly good footbridge. When I did road safety at school, they told me a footbridge or subway was the safest way to cross the road
Reply ID 1313
There are two reasons for this toucan crossing; one is to join the two sides of the town together again and to complete a cycle route through town. There is a third; that the residents of West Street and beyond wanted one. As for the first i reckon there are better sites; as for the second all transport policies are being overrun by the cyclists. There have been great misgivings aired at the Hertford Transport Forum by myself and others that this is unsafe on the grounds that traffic is travelling too fast and mothers waiting with a young child are going to have problems controlling that child. I am told that the lights will favour traffic at daytime and pedestrians at night. If Ware Road is anything to go by outside Focus then the traffic light phasing has a long way to go to assist pedestrians. Quicker to hold your breath and dash accross.Which is the fear at the Gascoyne Way crossing. These were the arguments put forward against the crossing but as we know the work will go ahead anyway.
Reply ID 1344
I use the subway(s), they might not be clean and you wouldn't want to use them as a single person, but there is nothing wrong with them, they work! I think they should divert the money straight up to the A10 where, the cracks in that, as yet, unfinished and expensive bypass is in need of dire help!
Reply ID 1352
I once saw a very old map that actually had a projected Hertford By-Pass on it (not just a relief road carving the town through the middle) Maybe if residents start a campaign we may get it by about 2104 they built a by-pass for the 2 houses in cole green didn't they so why not a big town like Hertford
Reply ID 1353
Let's hope it's not built by the contractors working on the A10 bypass, which has been delayed yet again. They promised us it would open on time in August, in spite of everything, but now they tell us it's October (although those in the know say November!) "Bypass opening is delayed again" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/3557708.stm Sorry, this is probably a little off-topic. Edited by - Steve on 13 Aug 2004 01:07:12
Reply ID 1356
I happen to live in the West Street end of the town. Really cant see the need for this crossing at all. We have 2 very good subways enabling us to get to the town safely already. And yes I have no qualms about using them alone whatever the time of day/night.
Reply ID 1361
I don't think the A10 Wadesmill/Thundridge etc. by-pass is off topic. I wonder how many Hertford Residents have to endure the current road and will welcome the new one - If they can manage to build it of course
Reply ID 1364
anyone know what's going on on bengeo street/port hill? there are temporary traffic lights up for roadworks, but noone seems to be doing anything... causing massive tailbacks in rush hour.
Reply ID 1366
I think the Port Hill lights are to keep traffic away from a rather deep pot hole which has been repaired, until the new tarmac sets hard.
Reply ID 1384
what a joke I suppose this was thought up by the same comedian that worked out the traffic joke at the london road roundabout. if we want to get out of south street we have to dodge the traffic from the right or block it off completely to get on the roundabout at all ofcourse if we want to go to ware its a hoot trying to get in the right lane and at the same time trying not to knock off the backend of the car waiting for the lights to change to go to the A414 great laugh that one. if it is the same guy i wish he would take some driving lessons as i know for a fact he has never held a driving licence. what an expert he must be. sue old hertfordian
Reply ID 1385
Don't worry Sue, only another 6 weeks of it (if you're lucky) to put up with.
Reply ID 1394
Sue, I have had my head bitten off more than once for daring to suggest that the planners deliberately made the exit from South Street difficult to encourage(!) motorists to turn left at the T-junction and re-eneter the traffic flow by way of Hertford East or Tesco. I think that this is now part of the unplanned rat run that starts from Parliament Square through Fore Street. Rarely does anyone indicate left here (by Michaels jewellery) and I have had a few near misses but being a large type person I usually mouth a few expletives deleted. I have told the people that manage these things that before long the exit route will extend past Hertford East and re-join the traffic by the Stanstead Road thereby missing the whole of the A414 completely. The whole point of the London Road roundabout scheme was to give priority to and to make East-West traffic flow faster. Then they put a toucan crossing just where it will slow traffic down again.
Reply ID 1397
Phew what a lot to read. The conclusion as a Hertford person I make is a) our lovely council don't consult the people who might have voted them into office b) They just love wasting tax payers money on schemes that are not well-thought out, do not improve anything apart from the pockets of those digging the roads and c)its spoiling an otherwise lovely town and killing businesses and those people like myself who shop elsewhere than have to judge how long we want to park for! Let me park and pay for the time I use, don't ask me to spend a fixed time in! Its not rocket science.. and if it were I'd be speaking to NASA!
Reply ID 1402
> our lovely council don't consult the people who might have voted > them into office Not quite true - they consult but don't listen. When I lived in lower Bengeo (Wellington Street) we were consulted about potential solutions to the horrendous rat-run problem - this took the form of a survey in which we could vote for the solution we preferred. The problem was, although the vast majority voted for some kind of action, the council ignored the results and did nothing. Hence the rat-run continues (and always will, because as traffic increases in Hertford, as it surely will, a solution becomes more and more difficult.) Regarding the schemes not being well thought out - I would agree with this. It seems that the council only consider the immediate problem and solution and often overlook side-effects such as increased traffic elsewhere, rat-running etc. - just look at the effect the old cross traffic lights had on traffic in lower Bengeo (which is bearable when the lights are broken!)
Reply ID 1403
Quick survey. Who thinks that the new toucan crossing along with 112 new homes in Mill Road will: a) ease traffic congestion on the A414 or b) make Tesco move out of town because it will take 2 hours to get out of the store?
Reply ID 1405
FWIW The Mercury on Friday carried a report about the planning application for 112 homes being rejected by the Planning Committee. As a result, Higgins Homes have gone back to the drawing board.
Reply ID 1438
Whether the crossing is a good or a bad thing, we should be eternally grateful to and acknowledge that at least EHDC and/ or HCC have been able to fund this project simply by NOT spending money on whitelining any of the main "A" or peripheral "B" roads in the county for at least five years. Take a look next time you drive anywhere in Herts and then compare the state of our roads and the poor state of road edging lines and dual carriageway whitelining to that of any neighbouring county! Hats off to their planned budgetting!! Mark
Reply ID 1581
posted this on another forum originally but applies here. With regard to the "improvements" to Gascoyne Way. Can anyone please explain to me how making this road a slalom/rally course with Pelican lights that no-one will use will make it better. The road is a car park for large parts of the morning and evening. this scheme will make the traffic worse causing not only more pollution but more people using the town centre as rat run. What drugs are the people who think these schemes up on???????????
Reply ID 1614
[quote] posted this on another forum originally but applies here. With regard to the "improvements" to Gascoyne Way. Can anyone please explain to me how making this road a slalom/rally course with Pelican lights that no-one will use will make it better. The road is a car park for large parts of the morning and evening. this scheme will make the traffic worse causing not only more pollution but more people using the town centre as rat run. What drugs are the people who think these schemes up on??????????? [/quote] Or look at it another way. The roads are at a standstill anyway. The rat runs have ground the town to a halt. Pollution change is now minimal without a bypass. With these facts in place, why shouldn't the council do something for the residents (and tax payers) of the area, rather than the commuters, and give them a safe crossing. Just like the two that already exist on the 414 without an major impact to traffic?
Reply ID 2009
So the work was supposed to take 6 weeks and it started mid august. I think somebody can't count. Anyway the workmen appear to have gone but there is still no crossing.
Reply ID 2047
shhh - don't mention the tunnels - Mr TVA will send his Knights Templar and illuminati mates after you ... lol[;)]
Reply ID 2369
So what's the latest news on the crossing, when will it be finished? How many weeks has it taken so far and how much over budget is it?!
Reply ID 2374
quote:At least there were a couple of workmen there yesterday in castle street - they didn't appear to be doing a lot [V]
Originally posted by CityBird
So what's the latest news on the crossing, when will it be finished? How many weeks has it taken so far and how much over budget is it?!
Reply ID 2950
Well I thought the crossing was supposed to be finished around now. They have not even put the lights into place yet, so they must be a long way behind.
Reply ID 2961
When I drove past yesterday they were installing the poles to put the lights on & the buttons to press.
Reply ID 2969
If they had actually spent their time working (approx 7 hours per day) rather than always being on constant Tea/Fag breaks and only being there between 11am and 3pm, they might have finished on time. Or am I being unfair??
Reply ID 3074
I got stopped at the crossing today. I am sure i read in the Mercury last night that the crossing will not be in use til after the New Year....hummmmm
Reply ID 3096
Perhaps we could have a Forum celebratory drink on the crossing[:o)]
Reply ID 3317
I like the crossing, but I'm baffled as to why they need 20 foot high lights on this one, but not on the other two. Anyone?
Reply ID 3377
quote:So how is this crossing different from the other two!?!?
Originally posted by Ewoowar
If you are approaching behind a vehicle such as van you are less likely to be able to see the lower lights.
Reply ID 3383
I think the new crossing is fantastic, as a non driver and someone that does a hell of a lot of walking around Hertford I am Hertford's self confessed 'Road Ragged Pedestrian'. As soon as they were up and running I walked across them and back twice, getting to press the button and make nasty cars have to stop 4 times. wooohoooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![:D][:D][:D]
Reply ID 3384
and I have just realised that this forum does not let you edit typo errors! bugger![xx(]
Reply ID 3388
Yes it does. Second icon from the left I think.
Reply ID 3403
I haven't seen anyone use the crossing, I use the underpass.
Reply ID 3431
£140.000 ?? money well spent?? HMMMM.... The display for pedestrians is not positioned very well, and it's a damn good job I'm not blind as there is NO BLEEPER to let you know when it's safe to cross!!
Reply ID 3434
It cost a lot more than £140,000 in the end because they found cables under the road - ooh what a surprise.
Reply ID 3435
quote:Some of the new crossings have small knob underneath the push button when it is safe to cross, the small knob rotates.
Originally posted by Sharon
£140.000 ?? money well spent?? HMMMM.... The display for pedestrians is not positioned very well, and it's a damn good job I'm not blind as there is NO BLEEPER to let you know when it's safe to cross!!
Reply ID 3440
quote:But how do you know you are walking in the right direction without voice guide?
Originally posted by jez_pquote:Some of the new crossings have small knob underneath the push button when it is safe to cross, the small knob rotates.
Originally posted by Sharon
£140.000 ?? money well spent?? HMMMM.... The display for pedestrians is not positioned very well, and it's a damn good job I'm not blind as there is NO BLEEPER to let you know when it's safe to cross!!
Reply ID 7707
looks like someone has had a big crash here today,glass bits of car all over the crossing and the crash barriers knocked down!!! anyone what happened?
Reply ID 7710
Yes apparently a car came from the roundabout round the corner & tipped over into the barrier at West St. Ben & Charlie' from the White Horse saw the end of the accident & called the emergency services. A lady of advanced age was allegedly driving with a passenger , but both were apparently unhurt - as this is second hand may need confirmation.... Not sure to any extent the new lights were to blame but it was exactly there. Mr Tigger
Reply ID 7722
Further on this. Apparently the first comment from the lady driver of the elderly couple who emerged from the upside down car was "We're going to need another f*****g car then..." Mr Tigger Tigger
Reply ID 7781
If there was a bleeper at this crossing, how could a blind person know which side of the dual carriageway was was being indicated as clear? The side where he/she was waiting to cross or the other side, where someone else was waiting to cross, therefore causing the blind person to misinterpret and walk straight out in front of oncoming traffic, if it was the opposite one? It is a logical theory if you can understand what I am trying to say.
Reply ID 7785
Very logical Muffin. The lack of a bleeper on the crossing is quite frankly astounding - could someone explain? Annoying local residents maybe...? CP
Reply ID 7787
Many crossings have a device underneath the "WAIT" sign which the blind use. I havn't checked out this particular crossing, but if you feel underneath the "WAIT" sign at many crossings there is a small knob which you can twist. I can't remember exactly how it works - havn't done it in ages - but basically it's something like this: you twiddle it until it stops turning, then it's safe to cross. Somebody try it and report back!
Reply ID 7788
I had the same query the other day, there was something underneath where the button was, but the lights changed before I had time to investigate. I was trying to work out how the blind could use the crossing and figured there must be a way!
Reply ID 7797
Underneath there will be a "thing" that rotoates when you are able to cross the road
Reply ID 7810
the knob will start turning on its own when it is safe to cross. Far safer than a bleeper on as two phase crossing like this.
Reply ID 7956
quote:Page 7 of todays Mercury shows picture of crash....opps
Originally posted by tsr
looks like someone has had a big crash here today,glass bits of car all over the crossing and the crash barriers knocked down!!! anyone what happened?
Reply ID 8312
how long has this been called the "evron crossing" spotted a name plate today
Reply ID 8313
I also noticed that yesterday, was wondering myself!
Reply ID 8316
Didn't it get called that after the 'twinning celebrations'? After the floods, with our local underground subway being completely flooded for a number of days (I think it still is), reinforced my view that this particular crossing is very welcome.
Reply ID 8319
Referring back to the 'whirling knob'. Used the crossing last night and yes, there is definite a small knob which starts to turn when the "little man says green". It is situated under the unit where you press the button to stop the traffic. Ingenious or what?
Reply ID 8320
quote:Must say my views are changing, originally v sceptical. However still think it could be an accident waiting to happen. Last week an artic' went straight throu' on red at close on full speed (coming from the County Hall Roundabout, so he was accelerating fast)didn’t seem to even see it (despite the Xmas tree display). German/Belgium/Dutch lorry, not that that should matter; a red light is a red light. At least it wasn't French, from Evron...
Originally posted by wizkid
Didn't it get called that after the 'twinning celebrations'? After the floods, with our local underground subway being completely flooded for a number of days (I think it still is), reinforced my view that this particular crossing is very welcome.
Reply ID 8324
I was glad it was there on Wednesday, after the rain all the underpasses were flooded, traffic was gridlocked and it was the only way of getting into the centre of Hertford.
Reply ID 8327
Nearly £200K is a lot of money to spend to provide an alternative method of crossing the road for the say 2-3 times a year the subway floods.
Reply ID 8331
All for the crossing, it doesn't hold me up as a driver and is helpfull as a pedestrian. Money well spent.
Reply ID 8355
I have not yet been stopped by the crossing at the times I have been on Gascoyne Way. I am not sure it was really money well spent but I am sure someone at County Hall is conducting a feasibility Study and of course using more money to do it. I don't think I can comment at the moment. That's a result then!
Reply ID 8359
Stopped most mornings on the way to work at 8.00. It doesnt ad time my journey at all. Not too sure why they couldnt make do with the under pass but..............
Reply ID 8362
I'm with Citibird on this one. £200k for some traffic lights and railings? Think about it everyone.
Reply ID 8369
A414 crossings. 1)Fore Street to All Saints Church underpass 2)Hertford Road to other side 3)Church Street to Queens Road Underpass 4)Castle Street to Pegs Lane Underpass 5)Padestrian Crossing just after the North Road Round about. So why did we need another one 50 meters from where a crossing already is??
Reply ID 8370
Oh and I forgot the one from the North Road to the other side of Gascoyne road.
Reply ID 8372
Oh come on how many people does it take to warrant spending £200k?? I have used all the underpasses during the time I have lived in Hertford, granted they are not the most asthetic of things to walk through, but I think there must be much more worth while ways of spending £200k.
Reply ID 8375
Wasn't one of the reasons for the crossing also its use by cycles (completing a link in a national cycle path)? I speak as someone who hasn't ventured out on a bike in years, so I could well be wrong here. PS As far as I know cycling is banned in the underpasses.
Reply ID 8376
Having to get off and walk 50 yards still does not warrant spending £200k. (plus who really gets off?)
Reply ID 8379
Fair enough if you use it everyday, then its a benifit. It did not bother me either way until I saw how much it cost. Just out of interest, what did you do before it was built?? I guess you used the underpass? Its human nature to take the easiest option, if I approached the town from west Street I would use the crossing and vice versa. But when I used to walk that way every day, I cannot ever remember thinking, I wish there was a crossing here, I used the underpass. Do you see my point?
Reply ID 8381
quote:Yes -National Cycle Route 61. [8D]
Wasn't one of the reasons for the crossing also its use by cycles (completing a link in a national cycle path)? I speak as someone who hasn't ventured out on a bike in years, so I could well be wrong here
Reply ID 8382
We can argue until we are blue in the face as to how much money was spent on the crossing and whether it was worth it or not but it is there now and nothing is going to change that fact. Personally, yes, I use it regularly as do many people. There are also people who cross where the crossing is, but not as and when it is safe. They take shortcuts between the A414 central reservation barrier and the higher barriers at the central pedestrian area and still run between oncoming traffic. They are asking for an accident to happen.
Reply ID 8732
quote:You would have wished for a crossing the other day when the underpasses were flooded
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
... But when I used to walk that way every day, I cannot ever remember thinking, I wish there was a crossing here, I used the underpass. Do you see my point?
Reply ID 8747
Oh yes spend £200k on a new crossing instead of £200 on unblocking the drains.
Reply ID 8798
i think the drains on some under passes lead in to the rivers so when it rains the water doesnt go down as the rivers are full. i will say that i use both underpass and crossing but when the under passes are all flooded you either use the crossing or risk getting run over. the under pass nearest me was flooded for over a week. what do you suggest vic i swim to work? Gini