Archived Topic
Topic ID 1678
07/07/2006 by flyer1
More flights over Hertford?
Is it just me or are there more airlpanes flying over Hertford recently?
I counted one every thirty seconds the other night, Is it just coincidence or is this increase evident since an aircraft noise monitor was set up in Ware?
0 replies
Archived Replies
Reply ID 20615
07/07/2006 by Steve
Not noticed any change
Reply ID 20617
07/07/2006 by Sargasso
Agree with Steve. I'm interested in this sort of stuff and in the 4 years I've been in Hertford, I'm noticed no increase
Reply ID 20618
07/07/2006 by BettyB
I have not noticed the planes so much but the helicopters are a nightmare.
They fly over us at least 3 times most aftrnoons/evenings and so low that they drown out the tv.
Reply ID 20621
07/07/2006 by SMT
Had this discussion with friends recently and we felt the planes were more noticeable, and not just because we have spent more time outside in the nice weather! I'm not sure if it is an increase in flights, but certainly noticed planes coming in lower over Hertford, particularly late at night. I've no idea if they fly lower to get into Stansted before the airport closes?? Doesn't any one know if height would effect speed - probably a very very stupid question, I know [:I]
Reply ID 20623
07/07/2006 by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by SMT
I've no idea if they fly lower to get into Stansted before the airport closes??
The airpost doesn't close.
Reply ID 20631
07/07/2006 by flyer1
The number of lower flights has definately increased, this started on the day Buncefield when bang!
The reason for this is that fuel at Heathrow was limited so planes were being flown to other London Airports between flights to refuel. I understand that while this situation has eased slighlty as Buncefield is still closed there is still a certain amount of airport hopping by the smaller airlines for refueling. It just seems to me they now come lower over Hertford and on a slightly different track than they used to!
Reply ID 20632
07/07/2006 by nora batty
I only remarked to my neighbour yesterday that I thought there were a lot more low planes flying right over my house. I wondered if it is to do with which runway they are using at any given time. They hardly ever used to fly directly over us, but they definitely do on some days now and i can even identify the airline from it's undercarriage.
A very low, noisy plane woke me and my son up last night at about 4.00am. I thought Luton and Stansted only operated flights between 6am and 11pm, and if a flight had to land outside these hours the airline gets fined.
Reply ID 20633
07/07/2006 by Steve
There are restrictions on night flights, not a ban.
Reply ID 20637
07/07/2006 by Leo Densian
I'm not aware of a big increase myself apart from helicoptors as mentioned earlier.
Aircraft need to be a minimum of 1500ft over Hertford but in reality the big stuff will be over 2000' ft as they begin their approach into Stanstead.
For Google Earth users theres a neat overlay you can download so you can see what controlled airspace we have got in this area
quote:
http://www.lloydbailey.net/airspace.html height="1" noshade id="quote">
Reply ID 20641
08/07/2006 by dytter
When Stansted are using runway 05 (the north easterly runway) aircraft pass overhead Ware/Hertford as they are vectored onto the instrument landing system. At 10 miles from touchdown they should be at 3000ft which enables a 3 degree glidepath with which they descend at 300ft per mile - the standard descent profile. Aircraft are not lower than they used to be but there are a lot more of them than say, 5 years ago.
Also, Stansted's runway in use is determined by the wind direction. "Good" weather (clear skies and high pressure) tends to occur in anticyclonic conditions which mostly produce easterly winds. Simply put, when the skies are clear and you can see the aircraft, runway 05 tends to be the runway-in-use and therefore more aircraft are seen over Ware/Hertford. It is a fact that we tend to be more aware of aircraft noise if we can actually see the offending plane.
The base of controlled airspace over hertford is 2500ft. Commercial aircraft remain at least 500ft above the base at all times. Outside controlled airspace, ie underneath the terminal control area, aircraft may operate under specific flight rules which include the 1500ft rule. These flights are NOT passenger carrying scheduled or charter services.
Dunno if this is any clearer - but at least I tried! [8D]
quote:
Originally posted by Leo Densian
I'm not aware of a big increase myself apart from helicoptors as mentioned earlier.
Aircraft need to be a minimum of 1500ft over Hertford but in reality the big stuff will be over 2000' ft as they begin their approach into Stanstead.
For Google Earth users theres a neat overlay you can download so you can see what controlled airspace we have got in this area
quote:
http://www.lloydbailey.net/airspace.html height="1" noshade id="quote">
Reply ID 20648
08/07/2006 by flyer1
The 4am plane is probably the big turbo prop transporter plane that comes and goes from Stanstead, it did have a habit of going over at about 1am a while ago.
On a quiet night you can hear it for about 5 minutes as it drones its way towards you, over you, and away!
Reply ID 20654
08/07/2006 by nora batty
I'm impressed with the collective knowledge of this forum!!!
On 2 occasions I have picked up the conversations of pilots through my radio. How/why does this happen, boffs?
Reply ID 20660
08/07/2006 by dytter
Nora, you can pick up snippets of "breakthrough" conversation from aircraft when the plane is in the right place and the frequencies in use are similar. You'll only hear the pilots however as radio waves require 'line of sight' and the ground station (ATC) transmissions have buildings etc in the way.
quote:
Originally posted by nora batty
I'm impressed with the collective knowledge of this forum!!!
On 2 occasions I have picked up the conversations of pilots through my radio. How/why does this happen, boffs?
Reply ID 20661
08/07/2006 by dytter
I'm not aware of a specific flight at 4am - there are a fair number of aircraft movements at Stansted during the night - but if the weather conditions are right and/or you are sleeping lightly at the time, whatever flights there are may well wake you!
quote:
Originally posted by flyer1
The 4am plane is probably the big turbo prop transporter plane that comes and goes from Stanstead, it did have a habit of going over at about 1am a while ago.
On a quiet night you can hear it for about 5 minutes as it drones its way towards you, over you, and away!
Reply ID 20736
10/07/2006 by alison
Its the flight at about 12.30am that shakes my house every time... and wakes the baby next door! Sounds more like its 500' rather than 1500' or above.
Reply ID 20753
10/07/2006 by ian.ball
quote:
Originally posted by dytter
...At 10 miles from touchdown they should be at 3000ft which enables a 3 degree glidepath with which they descend at 300ft per mile...
Also, Stansted's runway in use is determined by the wind direction.
The base of controlled airspace over hertford is 2500ft. Commercial aircraft remain at least 500ft above the base at all times.
Hi, all good stuff, but if I may add to that. Although a 3 degree glidepath is best practice for CDA, runway 05 can't use CDA as south of the runway is W-E airspace that has a 3000 foot lower limit, so aircraft coming over Hertford and Ware are generally between 2500 and 3000 feet. I think Stansted quote between 2000 and 4000 feet. Also, Ware is 12 nautical miles from Stansted as the crow flies so the route they take over Hertford and Ware will probably be nearer 15 nautical miles from the runway.
As for wind direction and runway use, they say runway 23 is preferred, but in light wind conditions at the moment they appear to be using 05.
Finally, although it is said they are 3000 feet flying over Ware and Hertford, I've had at least one letter from BAA stating that an aircraft overflew at 2400 feet and was not fined for low flying.
At the end of the day, it's really hard to judge heights without the data, but if it's noisy and a nuisance, call the Stansted Flight Evaluation Unit noiseline on 0800 243 788 or email
[email protected] Reply ID 20783
10/07/2006 by SallyB
I've also noticed an increase in helicopter movements in the north and east of Hertford. It doesn't bother me, except they do sometimes fly over quite early in the morning (before 0700) and wake me when my window is open.
I've certainly not seen an increase in large commercial aircraft, or seen them flying 'lower' - I don't even think I've seen as many light aircraft as I did last summer.
Reply ID 20837
11/07/2006 by Ewoowar
quote:
Originally posted by ian.ball
quote:
Originally posted by dytter
...At 10 miles from touchdown they should be at 3000ft which enables a 3 degree glidepath with which they descend at 300ft per mile...
Also, Stansted's runway in use is determined by the wind direction.
The base of controlled airspace over hertford is 2500ft. Commercial aircraft remain at least 500ft above the base at all times.
Hi, all good stuff, but if I may add to that. Although a 3 degree glidepath is best practice for CDA, runway 05 can't use CDA as south of the runway is W-E airspace that has a 3000 foot lower limit, so aircraft coming over Hertford and Ware are generally between 2500 and 3000 feet. I think Stansted quote between 2000 and 4000 feet. Also, Ware is 12 nautical miles from Stansted as the crow flies so the route they take over Hertford and Ware will probably be nearer 15 nautical miles from the runway.
As for wind direction and runway use, they say runway 23 is preferred, but in light wind conditions at the moment they appear to be using 05.
Finally, although it is said they are 3000 feet flying over Ware and Hertford, I've had at least one letter from BAA stating that an aircraft overflew at 2400 feet and was not fined for low flying.
At the end of the day, it's really hard to judge heights without the data, but if it's noisy and a nuisance, call the Stansted Flight Evaluation Unit noiseline on 0800 243 788 or email [email protected]
? Reply ID 20839
11/07/2006 by nora batty
!!!
Reply ID 20857
12/07/2006 by alison
quote:
Originally posted by nora batty
!!!
Indeed! All rather technical for the likes of me.
The other increase in flights I've noticed are by the very loud and chirpy swallows/housemartins in the late evening. What a racket they make!!!
I expect the canadian black necked geese will start their dusk-time flyovers soon too - usually about August.
Reply ID 20861
12/07/2006 by dytter
I take your point! [8D][8D]
However, I attempted to explain why it appears there are/are not more/lower aircraft when they have been flying the same pattern since the easterly runway was built.
I'm gonna check this afternoon with the guys who actually control these planes and get the correct answers for you. We have no control over traffic outside controlled airspace (below in this case) but I can get some info re the big jets.[?][?]
quote:
Originally posted by nora batty
!!!
Reply ID 20862
12/07/2006 by Stephen
quote:
As for wind direction and runway use, they say runway 23 is preferred, but in light wind conditions at the moment they appear to be using 05.
How many runways are there at Stansted (I'm assuming there aren't 23 - if there are, why would they need any more?), and is there a map showing them (I tried the Stansted Airport website but gave up in the end)?
Reply ID 20868
12/07/2006 by dytter
There's one. Runway 23/05 is the same bit of tarmac. It's the direction of take off and landing which determines which 'one' is in use. If you were sat in the cockpit of an aircraft on the end of the runway before taking off and your compass heading was 230 degrees, you'd be using runway 23. Go down the other end, turn around and point the opposite way and your compass would say 050 degrees - runway 05. Which one is in use is determined (basically) by the wind direction. Aircraft usually need to take off and land "into wind".
Heathrow has 2 parallel runways 27/09 and can shift twice the aircraft as somewhere like Stansted. More runways, more movements (mostly). Hope this helps....
[:)][:)][:)]
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen
quote:
As for wind direction and runway use, they say runway 23 is preferred, but in light wind conditions at the moment they appear to be using 05.
How many runways are there at Stansted (I'm assuming there aren't 23 - if there are, why would they need any more?), and is there a map showing them (I tried the Stansted Airport website but gave up in the end)?
Reply ID 20875
12/07/2006 by Stephen
quote:
Hope this helps
Thanks Steve and Dytter - it does.
But what happens with south easterly/north westerly winds (I know they aren't prevailing, but they aren't unknown). Which way do aircraft land then? (Sorry if I'm heading off topic a bit.)
Reply ID 20893
12/07/2006 by dytter
Crosswinds (winds across the runway as opposed to straight down it) will usually favour one direction rather than the other. At Heathrow (and other airports) the preferential direction is westerly and a degree of crosswind or even tailwind is tolerated. As soon as it becomes too great to be acceptable to landing (or departing) traffic, the runway which is more into wind will be used.
Most airport runway directions are determined by prevailing winds which in this country tend to be from the west. Most (but not all) runways in the uk are east/west ish.
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen
quote:
Hope this helps
Thanks Steve and Dytter - it does.
But what happens with south easterly/north westerly winds (I know they aren't prevailing, but they aren't unknown). Which way do aircraft land then? (Sorry if I'm heading off topic a bit.)
Reply ID 20894
13/07/2006 by jayzee
did anyone see the harrier jump jet at about 7.30pm today that baby was low and moving fast came over twice what a sight my boy loved it wants to ne a pilot now he is only nine wanted to be a fireman last week haha wonder what it will be next week jumbo jet parker
Reply ID 20896
13/07/2006 by Steve
Can't remember the time exactly, but a Typhoon went over the east of town during the evening and did a roll. Show off!
Reply ID 20899
13/07/2006 by ian.ball
quote:
Originally posted by dytter
...If you were sat in the cockpit of an aircraft on the end of the runway before taking off and your compass heading was 230 degrees, you'd be using runway 23....
Thanks, I never knew that - you learn something new every day [:)]
Reply ID 20902
13/07/2006 by carlos fandango
Saw an ME 109 the other day. Was waiting for the Spitfire chasing after it.
Reply ID 20921
13/07/2006 by nora batty
Anoraks!!!
(Hertford anoraks, of course, Mr.Admin, Sir)
Reply ID 20923
14/07/2006 by jayzee
quote:
Originally posted by jayzee
did anyone see the harrier jump jet at about 7.30pm today that baby was low and moving fast came over twice what a sight my boy loved it wants to ne a pilot now he is only nine wanted to be a fireman last week haha wonder what it will be next week jumbo jet parker
i was on my way back from dane end at the time i saw this have now been told duxford air show is on soon and thay are practising at the mo[:)][:)][:)]
Reply ID 20976
17/07/2006 by flyer1
Saw a Spitfire the other evening, she flew over in a SE direction then about 10 minutes later came back on a NW tack.
We get a lot of Police Helicopter flights lately, I was told the this bit of Herts uses the Essex chopper which could explain it.
Just sat out and had a fag, we are still on about every 30 seconds from Stanstead.
Reply ID 20981
17/07/2006 by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by flyer1
Just sat out and had a fag, we are still on about every 30 seconds from Stanstead.
You may get the odd one or two that close together but horizantol separation and the runway capacity simple can't sustain that level of movements.
The declared runway capacity at Stansted is 43 per hour. So if there were no takeoffs and they were only landing planes that would be one every 1.4 minutes max.
Reply ID 22401
29/07/2006 by flyer1
Just spent most of the afternoon over with friends in Stanstead Abbots, and got talking about this, they all said they had noticed a recent drop in over flying aircraft over recent weeks.... Coincidence???
Reply ID 22511
31/07/2006 by ian.ball
More likely to be wind direction dictating which runway is used. Generally the predominant wind direction dictates runway 23 is used, but we've had a lot of northerly winds this year which increases the number of flights to runway 05.
36 replies