Topic ID 1572
Just to let you know that there is a speed camera van outside St Joseph's School on North Road.
Reply ID 19300
Oh excellent. On a Sunday!
Reply ID 19301
quote:And tomorrow being a Bank Holiday Monday - Traffic Attendants![}:)]
Oh excellent. On a Sunday!
Reply ID 19302
So just park legally and don't break the speed limit
Reply ID 19303
quote:I am a good girl and never do things like that.
Originally posted by Steve
So just park legally and don't break the speed limit
Reply ID 19310
Surely the Police Revenue/Speed Cameras would be more use in a residential estate on a Sunday, where children might be playing on the street.
Reply ID 19431
Jez North Road is a residential area (you may have noticed the houses along both sides of :). Speed cameras are VERY welcome on North Road particularly weekends - thats when I'm there!
Reply ID 19448
quote:Indeed, why won't they put one where the 40 mph starts on the A414 on the way in from Hatfield. People come racing down there approaching 100 at times.
Originally posted by ridley
Jez North Road is a residential area (you may have noticed the houses along both sides of :). Speed cameras are VERY welcome on North Road particularly weekends - thats when I'm there!
Reply ID 19449
quote:This is covered by one of the mobile cameras, although not frequently enough.
Originally posted by SMHquote:Indeed, why won't they put one where the 40 mph starts on the A414 on the way in from Hatfield. People come racing down there approaching 100 at times.
Originally posted by ridley
Jez North Road is a residential area (you may have noticed the houses along both sides of :). Speed cameras are VERY welcome on North Road particularly weekends - thats when I'm there!
Reply ID 19450
last night the camera was on the 414 on the way to hertingfordbury out of hertford. which is pretty harsh really, as that bit is strangely 40mph for an unusually long distance! I hope these new vans arnt going to be a permanent fixture! where they really need to be is hertford heath!
Reply ID 19458
quote:There is a gap in the central reservation where cars enter and exit a side turning. I think the camera is there to reduce the speed of vehicles as they approach this gap.
Originally posted by codek2
last night the camera was on the 414 on the way to hertingfordbury out of hertford. which is pretty harsh really, as that bit is strangely 40mph for an unusually long distance! I hope these new vans arnt going to be a permanent fixture! where they really need to be is hertford heath!
Reply ID 19462
ah yes, good point - that makes a bit more sense now!
Reply ID 19467
quote:I agree that north road is a residential area (although most of it only has houses on one side - Schools, Cemeterys, the Hospital, the station are on the other.) Perhaps North Road is a valid location, but I can think of locations where the danger from speeding motorists is higher. Anybody that lets their children play on the road in North Road should probably have a long hard think about safety.
Originally posted by ridley
Jez North Road is a residential area (you may have noticed the houses along both sides of :). Speed cameras are VERY welcome on North Road particularly weekends - thats when I'm there!
Reply ID 19470
quote:Is it stange to have 40mph all the way along the back of houses?
Originally posted by codek2
last night the camera was on the 414 on the way to hertingfordbury out of hertford. which is pretty harsh really, as that bit is strangely 40mph for an unusually long distance! I hope these new vans arnt going to be a permanent fixture!
Reply ID 19473
quote:Noise abatement, a road with cars doing, or accellerating to 60 is far noisier than one with cars at 40. Also there are cars trying to turn out of Valeside across the central reservation to go west toward hatfield. The 60 occurs soon after that junction / safety island in the central reservation. Same on the inbound the 40 is prior to the junction to Valeside, difficult to take when you have a BMW bearing down on the back of your car at 80 while you are slowing to 20 or less to take the turn, that makes an approaching speed / impact speed of 60.
Originally posted by Dudequote:Is it stange to have 40mph all the way along the back of houses?
Originally posted by codek2
last night the camera was on the 414 on the way to hertingfordbury out of hertford. which is pretty harsh really, as that bit is strangely 40mph for an unusually long distance! I hope these new vans arnt going to be a permanent fixture!
Reply ID 19476
I got caught down there. I don't think it's fair that they catch people roughly 100 yards from the 70 zone.
Reply ID 19478
What 70 zone? I thought it was 40 up to Waterford and then down to 30 again.
Reply ID 19480
I think xnetco was talking about the A414 by valeside. On North road it used to be National once you got past Bramfield Road, (but that is 60MPH on a Single Carriageway) now they seem to have reduced the speed limits either side of Waterford to 40MPH - not sure of the reasons for this. On the A414 it goes from 40 to 70 and it could be seen as unfair that the police are 100yds from the national speed limit sign when they catch you accelerating prematurely. What is the logic - it is OK to drive fast all the way through Hertford but we will catch you as you leave? Wouldn't it be more sensible to slow people down entering Hertford and then try and keep their speed down to a reasonable safe level as they travel through the town?
Reply ID 19482
He was, the A414 one. Usually the camera points the other way - into town, but traffic needs to be slower both ways to allow traffic in and out of the side roads in the same way there are the four cameras on the 414 between Hoddesdon and Harlow on the Stanstead Abbots by-pass. I guess traffic through town is usually managed slower by the curve in the road and the regular roundabouts, though that very bend lamppost near the parliment sq roundabout / entrance must have been hit at some speed.
Reply ID 19488
quote:Ah I see. Apologies.
Originally posted by jez_p
I think xnetco was talking about the A414 by valeside.
Reply ID 19495
quote:Thats what I mean. It makes total sense for that stretch of road to be 40, if only for the noise to residents. I was responding to the note before, which questioned the point on the speed restriction.
Originally posted by SMHquote:Noise abatement, a road with cars doing, or accellerating to 60 is far noisier than one with cars at 40. Also there are cars trying to turn out of Valeside across the central reservation to go west toward hatfield. The 60 occurs soon after that junction / safety island in the central reservation. Same on the inbound the 40 is prior to the junction to Valeside, difficult to take when you have a BMW bearing down on the back of your car at 80 while you are slowing to 20 or less to take the turn, that makes an approaching speed / impact speed of 60.
Originally posted by Dudequote:Is it stange to have 40mph all the way along the back of houses?
Originally posted by codek2
last night the camera was on the 414 on the way to hertingfordbury out of hertford. which is pretty harsh really, as that bit is strangely 40mph for an unusually long distance! I hope these new vans arnt going to be a permanent fixture!
Reply ID 19496
quote:Thats like saying, "its not fair I got done for stabbing someone. They never gave me time to throw the knife away!" If its 40 its 40. Do 70 in the 70 zone. How exactly is it unfair?
Originally posted by xnetco
I got caught down there. I don't think it's fair that they catch people roughly 100 yards from the 70 zone.
Reply ID 19499
Watch out on Friday and Sunday, they are the next days the mobile cameras are due to be in Hertford. No mention of whether they are to be on North Road, Hertingfordbury Road or Stansted Road though. http://www.hertsdirect.org/roadtrans/rsu/driving/safetycameras/mbscam1/
Reply ID 19514
quote:The whole point of speed cameras is as a robotic policing method to catch any car travelling faster than a pre-defined limit. Unfortunately a Speed camera does not slow people down (except perhaps for the 100m where the camera is) and it doesn't stop dangerous drivers - just proscutes them 2 weeks after the event. Placing a speed camera just before a change in the speed limit is an attempt to maximise prosecutions by penalising people that speed up too soon or brake too late. Which is safer Braking smoothly from 70MPH to 40MPH or slamming the brakes on as you approach the sign because you have seen a Van in the bushes trying to fleece you for £60 plus more expensive insurance etc. for still doing 50MPH as you pass the 40MPH sign? I totally agree that the 40MPH speed limit is appropriate there for the reasons already stated, but I don't think that cracking down on speeding using cameras is a particularly effective way of reducing careless and dangerous driving that causes accidents. Is it just me, or does it seem that "Police Responsibilty" keeps getting delegated especially when it comes to traffic policing. Scamera Partnerships Parking Wardens Highways Agency Patrol Vehicles All of the above have taken over policing from the police but ave limited powers so are not completely effective. Scameras can't pull over a stolen car or come to help if you have an accident, nor can they see dangerous manoevers and prosecute accordingly. Parking Wardens - Can only ticket people who are parked on yellow lines or who break one of the rules in a car park. If you cause an obstruction by parking on the pavement or over somebody's drive and they can't touch you. Highways Agency - Seem to spend all their time riding round motorways looking like the police - occasionally putting a few cones behind a broken down vehicle on the hard shoulder.
Originally posted by Dudequote:Thats like saying, "its not fair I got done for stabbing someone. They never gave me time to throw the knife away!" If its 40 its 40. Do 70 in the 70 zone. How exactly is it unfair?
Originally posted by xnetco
I got caught down there. I don't think it's fair that they catch people roughly 100 yards from the 70 zone.
Reply ID 19515
Totally agree with you Dude. Its the law - you wouldn't shop lift would you? that would be breaking the law, so why speed? Don't forget the police are only upholding the law - they don't make them! If you disagree strongly then write to your MP - they are the ones that can make the changes.
Reply ID 19517
Saftey Camera Vans are not usually operated by the police, they are operated by a partnership (including the council, the local courts and the police) - they are manned by civilians not police officers. They are not a Magic Bullet solution to eliminating road traffic accidents, and using them to catch people out tends to lead to resentment. Laws are made for a reason - and once you forget the original reason and just police the law because it is "The Law" you start to build up resentment. It is the law that all Hackney Carriages should have a bale of hay in the boot - perhaps the police should go around prosecuting all of the Hertford Taxi Drivers for that too.
Reply ID 19589
quote:hmmmmmmmm, I think you'll find we do a bit more then that. Apart from the fact we now allow the police to deal with more importnat things then: i) People running out of petrol ii) Stopping to read a map on the hard shoulder iii) Clearing up non-injury accidents and so on....... With regard to speeding..........don't break the limit and you won't receive a penalty.
Highways Agency - Seem to spend all their time riding round motorways looking like the police - occasionally putting a few cones behind a broken down vehicle on the hard shoulder
Reply ID 19592
Actually, I agree that the Highways Agency do actually do a fair bit of stuff. But again it is stuff that used to be done by the Police. And it is also very frustrating when people doing 75MPH see one and immediately slam their brakes on because they think it is a police car. If the vehicle was a Police Car and it saw some dangerous driving etc. then it could take the appropriate action, including pulling the driver over and even arresting him/her - I don't think that the highways agency have that power.
Reply ID 19593
I have no powers to pull vehicles over or carry out an arrest. As with cameras, people slamming brakes on when the see us or a camera is down to bad driving and nothing else. One of the reasons that we (and the police) patrol at 50mph is to allow other drivers to overtake without breking the speed limit.
Reply ID 19594
I totally agree - almost all accidents are cuased by bad driving too. At the risk of going completely off topic - I am amazed how many people can't read or understand road signs and road markings. Like not using a bus lane when the bus lane is not in operation or using the wrong lanes on the Hatfield Roundabout (I have even seen a Highways Agency Patrol get that wrong so what hope is there for the rest of us)
Reply ID 19616
Must be a nice earner - they were there again today
quote:
Posted - 28 May 2006 : 11:40:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just to let you know that there is a speed camera van outside St Joseph's School on North Road.
Reply ID 19709
Great! Really glad they were there again Leo. But what is the point of putting the speed camera warning site up so prominently? They won't get anyone. Speed camera's need to be up there late afternoon rush-hour - there are some complete tossers driving down North Road and up to Sele then.
Reply ID 19710
quote:What planet are you from?! Speed doesn’t kill, dangerous driving does. Sending out a NIP to someone driving like a tosser will not ameliorate the fact they drive or have driven like a tosser. Only a bollocking or words of "advice" from a real copper who stops them there and points out their idiocy will make any difference, coupled with a charge of dangerous/careless driving if necessary. You really are quite misguided if you think a speed camera van makes any difference whatsoever to the safety of our roads... Get that idiot out of the van and replace him on the payroll with a trained and experienced traffic officer who has the ability to advise and prosecute for the appropriate offence if and when necessary. The public are alienated enough already with being penalised for drifting over the limit which most people would admit to doing and most people would admit to doing with safety. Anyone who says they do or have not done so is a liar. We need more traffic officers with experience, common sense and discretion and not some social reject in a van ticketing for 35 in a 30. Before you ask, I have a squeaky clean licence because I use my common sense and drive to the conditions, like anyone with half a brain does instead of formlessly sitting at 40 mph everywhere!
Originally posted by ridley
Great! Really glad they were there again Leo. But what is the point of putting the speed camera warning site up so prominently? They won't get anyone. Speed camera's need to be up there late afternoon rush-hour - there are some complete tossers driving down North Road and up to Sele then.
Reply ID 19731
What planet are you from?! asks exiled_in_Reading... The same planet as you exile, specifically though I am from North Road - so I am perhaps in a better position then than you to judge what we need to calm traffic along the road: please be a bit less confrontational in making a snap judgement about me. Sorry but you've annoyed me because you make so many sweeping statements without demonstrating any actual knowledge of the situation. The primary school on the road is used all day holidays and evenings too - very young kids coming out of there and crossing the road all times. God forbid if any one is hit but you know that it is much more likely to result in death if the car is going over 30. As well as the safety angle, cars need to be restricted to 30 from a noise polution angle as well, especially when we all have our windows open in the hot weather. BTW I also enjoy riding motorcycles and so I know what a thrill speed can be for some people. OK I'll calm down now.
Reply ID 19732
quote:Er, yes it does
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
Speed doesn’t kill
Reply ID 19733
quote:Er, no it doesn't. If speed killed we would never walk/run anywhere, we would never get on a bus, drive a car, get on a plane or do anything with a degree of risk attached. I will say this until the cows come home, driving above a pre-defined limit in a well maintained car where the driver is alert and aware of ascertainable risks and constantly looking for other risks which may manifest, whilst driving to the environment and conditions is not dangerous. You got any IAM training then? Have you bothered to educate yourself of real world driving apart from the fact you managed to pass your driving test many years ago? I prefer to keep my eyes on the road as opposed to the Speedo, but then again seeing as you drive a ford escort I would hazard a guess you are not a motoring enthusiast Steve... As for North road, what the hell are you on about Ridley. I was actually in North road the other week looking at a property and most of the cars that went past did not appear to be driving at a speed which would be deemed excessive for the conditions. Speeding is not a "thrill". It is an acknowledgement of the fact that the conditions are safe for you to make progress, not just sit at the limit like a numpty and fall asleep. I don’t do 80/90 on the motorway to get a buzz, as I have a fairly fulfilling life as it is thank you very much. I live just off London road, where the limit is 40. It is perfectly safe at most times of the day in good conditions to do 60ish, and that’s what everyone does. The irony of the NIMBYS which I have observed on several threads on this site is that it is the case where people clamour for a speed check to take place, it is the locals who get nicked the most. Before you start asking for stats Steve as you appear to be a bit of a pedant, I have family connections in the police, 2 of which are specifically in Traffic working from Hertford. You ask any traffic officer worth their salt, and they will agree with most of what I say. The morons who operate these vans are civvies and don’t even bother to do a check of the speed before activating the laser at passing cars which is what they are meant to do under ACPO guidelines, they just zap away and collect the cash. They are hated by the police because people associate these scamera vans as being operated by the police when in Herts specifically they are not. FWIW I generally stick to 30's, but I always drive to the conditions, and if that means going past ST Josephs at 1/2am doing 40mph and I make a call its safe, that’s what I'll do. Speed does not kill. You have been brainwashed. Use your common sense and the intelligence God gave you and drive to the conditions, not to what a piece of tin says. 30 at kicking out time outside a pub/school is TOO fast in many cases, but because of the mantra "speed kills and sticking to the speed limit doesn’t" would you barrel past the school at 30 with gay abandon? I know damn well I wouldn’t... On a separate note the LTI 20/20 which the camera van is a very dodgy and inaccurate piece of kit, and if it were me holding a NIP as a result of one, I would take it all the way to court and attempt to destroy the case bit by bit.
Originally posted by Stevequote:Er, yes it does
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
Speed doesn’t kill
Reply ID 19735
FACT---------Speed DOES NOT kill..........what kills is inapropriate use of speed. This is the reason that in general cameras are used in the manor that they are. Speed limits are MAXIMUMS and nothing more. Just because a speed limit is deemd to be 30 mph, that doesn't infer that that should be treated as a maximum, only that in ideal conditions that is a safe speed.
Reply ID 19736
quote:
Originally posted by Hato
FACT---------Speed DOES NOT kill..........what kills is inapropriate use of speed. This is the reason that in general cameras are used in the manor that they are. Speed limits are MAXIMUMS and nothing more. Just because a speed limit is deemd to be 30 mph, that doesn't infer that that should be treated as a maximum, only that in ideal conditions that is a safe speed.
Reply ID 19741
As someone who has experience in dealing with Road Traffic Accidents, ie. moving dead bodies out of cars, and investigating the causes of the accidents, etc, I can assure exiled in Reading that speed is a factor in a large number of accidents.You will get people to admit to being rubbish at almost everything, except that they are bad drivers! Good drivers acknowledge that speed limits exist to prevent accidents, particularly fatals, bad drivers think they are above the law. Why does Exiled in Reading, (perhaps he should go back there) think that he has more expertise to decide what is a safe speed limit? I too have connections with Road Policing officers, and I challenge you to name the ones who agree with you.
Reply ID 19745
quote:No, I am not going to name the specific officers whom I am related to or who I see on a regular basis. However, If you see G**y D***n in the camera van, remind him it is an ACPO guideline to check the speed of a vehicle then corroborate it with the laser, not laser and hope for the best which is what my snooper tells me has been the case whenever I've driven past the van... I don’t think I’m above the law, but perhaps you can think outside the box. Most people speed. Most people do so safely. I am influenced by speed limits but I am not a slave to them. Do not attempt to use hyperbole or emotions to peddle your propaganda. Dealing with dead people is part of the job. When you take the kings shilling you expect that, so it is not particularly surprising you’ve pulled a few dead bodies out of cars. The emotion you have attempted to inject into this debate does not alter the fact that driving with out consideration for the prevailing conditions is monolithically more dangerous than doing a few mph over an arbitrary limit set many years ago. I drive within my limits, my cars limits and the environment. The most dangerous types of drivers are those who do not interact with the environment and fail to choose a speed safe for the conditions, the 40 in a 30 and 40 in a 60 brigade. (They don’t think when they drive and they generally drive Nissan Micras, I’ve been behind plenty of them before and I would prefer to be in front of them if at all possible!) But you would have hopefully have committed Road Craft to memory and would know that already...
Originally posted by buzz
As someone who has experience in dealing with Road Traffic Accidents, ie. moving dead bodies out of cars, and investigating the causes of the accidents, etc, I can assure exiled in Reading that speed is a factor in a large number of accidents.You will get people to admit to being rubbish at almost everything, except that they are bad drivers! Good drivers acknowledge that speed limits exist to prevent accidents, particularly fatals, bad drivers think they are above the law. Why does Exiled in Reading, (perhaps he should go back there) think that he has more expertise to decide what is a safe speed limit? I too have connections with Road Policing officers, and I challenge you to name the ones who agree with you.
Reply ID 19747
The most dangerous types of drivers are those who do not interact with the environment and fail to choose a speed safe for the conditions, the 40 in a 30 and 40 in a 60 brigade. (They don’t think when they drive and they generally drive Nissan Micras, I’ve been behind plenty of them before and I would prefer to be in front of them if at all possible!) Don't diss Nissan Micras[^]
Reply ID 19748
I am quite well aware of who you refer to as G**y D***n. An experienced Road Policing Officer.I am quite sure I do not have to remind him of his qualifications for his job. In this case I know his credentials,but I'm afraid I do not know yours. You state that you drive within your limits. Who says so? You? What qualifications do you have to make such a statement..Oh, and "dealing with dead people is part of the job"? Tell that to the relatives. It's people like you, who think they are superb drivers,and above thelaw that are the biggest problem on our roads today
Reply ID 19751
quote:We shouldn’t have to be telling anything to the relatives because the number of people being killed on the roads should be decreasing, not increasing. I presume you will be aware that DOT figures consistently have shown that it is only around 12.5 per cent of accidents involve "excessive speed" and around 1/3 of accidents are due to exceeding a speed limit. You will therefore be aware that the remaining 70% of accidents are caused by a speed that was excessive for the conditions but *within* the speed limit. If you examine national roads fatality statistics, in the speed camera years we have seen no significant fall in road fatalities, yet you will note that in the previous 25 years (pre speed camera) fatalities were more than halved. Traffic growth has been consistent, and vehicle safety has been improving year after year after year. So why haven't roads fatalities continued to fall? I'll tell you why. It's because the roads policing tool box is too reliant on cameras, drivers are not trained to a high enough standard, the driving test is too bloody easy, and the numbers of traffic police who have discretion and the ability to advise, are decreasing. A NIP on the door mat 14 days later doesn’t really educate. It angers and alienates more than anything else. Most people would think, oh **** I’ve been caught, and stump up. If a copper pulls you over and interacts with you, you will learn a lot more, and it might even save your life. That’s why. (…and who I am, my credentials, my occupation and qualifications are my business, not yours. I am merely a concerned resident of Hertford airing my views on a subject of local interest. You are quite obviously not in CID - if I wanted to tell people who I am my name, wouldn't be Exiled_in_Reading would it now...)
Originally posted by buzz
I am quite well aware of who you refer to as G**y D***n. An experienced Road Policing Officer.I am quite sure I do not have to remind him of his qualifications for his job. In this case I know his credentials,but I'm afraid I do not know yours. You state that you drive within your limits. Who says so? You? What qualifications do you have to make such a statement..Oh, and "dealing with dead people is part of the job"? Tell that to the relatives. It's people like you, who think they are superb drivers,and above thelaw that are the biggest problem on our roads today
Reply ID 19752
Do you not then think that on your own figures, that 12.5 per cent of of accidents involve excessive speed is too much? I would agree that 70% of accidents caused by a speed that was excessive for the conditions but within the speed limit is also unacceptable, but how does that make speeding within the speed limit acceptable? As to who you are, your occupation and qualifications make it my business, well, you could have passed your driving test, (or not) last week, so not really be qualified to comment on these matters
Reply ID 19753
quote:My qualification to comment is based upon the fact I have driven many thousands of miles (both professionally and socially) and I am currently accident and conviction free (touch wood). As my profile will show, I am 21 and have held my licence since 17. I am a member of IAM. I am very soon, about to train as an observer. I also hold an honours Law degree. The honours aspect was obtained by undertaking extensive research over 3 years on KSI stats and an in depth analysis on road safety, but I by no stretch of the imagination pretend to have done anything than scratch the surface of the issues. Road safety is much about how to manage enormous potential dangers on the roads. The introduction of the speed camera has had far reaching effects, most of them negative. Speed cameras change driver behaviour. It changes drivers safety priorities. It changes the way the roads are policed, and it changes the relationship of the police and the public. The number of cameras has risen exponentially, there has been no corresponding reduction in traffic fatalities. Yet the number of speed cameras in Hertfordshire has risen by almost 40 per cent to well over 90 over the last year or so. I direct you to an article by the Chief Constable of Durham, Paul Garvin, reported in The Daily Telegraph, 7th December 2003, which stated his views: "I actually believe in casualty reduction and trying to make the roads safer but, having looked at the accident statistics in this area, we find that if you break down the 1,900 collisions we have each year only three per cent involve cars that are exceeding the speed limit. Just 60 accidents per year involve vehicles exceeding the speed limit. You then need to look at causes of these 60 accidents. Speed may be a factor in the background but the actual cause of the accident invariably is drink-driving or drug-driving. Drug-taking is becoming more of a problem. In 40 per cent of fatal road accidents in this area one or more of the people involved have drugs in their system Many accidents were caused by fatigue, although one of the most common causes of crashes was the failure of drivers to watch out for oncoming vehicles when turning right. The cause of accidents is clearly something different than exceeding the speed limit and we ought to be looking at those other factors" All the above can only be dealt with, by traffic officers, not someone sitting in the back of a van pointing an LTI 20/20 out of the rear windows. You will be aware that the vast majority of drivers do not normally drive *too* fast. The traditional method of setting speed limits around the world has involved observing drivers and setting the speed limit at or around the speed “not exceeded by” 85% of drivers in clear conditions on that road. This recognises the safe and appropriate behaviour of the majority of drivers and the ability of drivers to observe the road conditions and select an appropriate speed. Of course we need speed limits. But what we need, desperately, are more traffic police, not, more speed cameras.
Originally posted by buzz
Do you not then think that on your own figures, that 12.5 per cent of of accidents involve excessive speed is too much? I would agree that 70% of accidents caused by a speed that was excessive for the conditions but within the speed limit is also unacceptable, but how does that make speeding within the speed limit acceptable? As to who you are, your occupation and qualifications make it my business, well, you could have passed your driving test, (or not) last week, so not really be qualified to comment on these matters
Reply ID 19759
It's nice to see some healthy debate. Having read at length the thread I would like to pick up on some of EIR's posts
quote:So why do the police (in particular the Met) who have the best-maintained cars and highest trained drivers manage to kill and injury so many people. And that is innocent bystanders rather than people being pursued.
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
I will say this until the cows come home, driving above a pre-defined limit in a well-maintained car where the driver is alert and aware of ascertainable risks and constantly looking for other risks, which may manifest, whilst driving to the environment and conditions is not dangerous.
quote:Could you just remind me of the IAM stance on speeds and speed limits
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
You got any IAM training then? Have you bothered to educate yourself of real world driving apart from the fact you managed to pass your driving test many years ago?
quote:So what your saying is that it’s ok for all these people to break the law then
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
I live just off London road, where the limit is 40. It is perfectly safe at most times of the day in good conditions to do 60ish, and that’s what everyone does.
quote:So now you are allowed to decide which laws you’ll obey and those you won’t. Does this mean that you would then accept full responsibility for an RTC if it occurred?
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
FWIW I generally stick to 30's, but I always drive to the conditions, and if that means going past ST Josephs at 1/2am doing 40mph and I make a call its safe, that’s what I'll do.
quote:So if you drive a car in the manner of the first part of this post, why do you need a snooper?
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
However, If you see G**y D***n in the camera van, remind him it is an ACPO guideline to check the speed of a vehicle then corroborate it with the laser, not laser and hope for the best which is what my snooper tells me has been the case whenever I've driven past the van...
quote:So I take it you break the law on a regular basis then
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
I don’t think I’m above the law, but perhaps you can think outside the box. Most people speed. Most people do so safely. I am influenced by speed limits but I am not a slave to them.
quote:No one who works on the roads wants to turn up to a KSI incident. Speed limits have remained static for one very simple reason. Whilst technology may have moved on unfortunately the human brain hasn’t. If you want to make roads safer, take all the safety features off cars, and put a whacking great spike in the middle of the steering wheel.
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
Dealing with dead people is part of the job. When you take the kings shilling you expect that, so it is not particularly surprising you’ve pulled a few dead bodies out of cars. The emotion you have attempted to inject into this debate does not alter the fact that driving with out consideration for the prevailing conditions is monolithically more dangerous than doing a few mph over an arbitrary limit set many years ago.
quote:I agree with you that the standard DSA test is far too easy. There should be re-tests every 5 years, driving bans should be longer, and people need to realize that a driving licence is a privilege not a right. The courts need to ban more people for life.
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
So why haven't roads fatalities continued to fall? I'll tell you why. It's because the roads policing tool box is too reliant on cameras, drivers are not trained to a high enough standard, the driving test is too bloody easy, and the numbers of traffic police who have discretion and the ability to advise, are decreasing.
quote:“I’ve been caught”, well don’t break the law then……
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
A NIP on the door mat 14 days later doesn’t really educate. It angers and alienates more than anything else. Most people would think, oh **** I’ve been caught, and stump up. If a copper pulls you over and interacts with you, you will learn a lot more, and it might even save your life.
quote:By your standard, you shouldn’t need to touch wood.
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
My qualification to comment is based upon the fact I have driven many thousands of miles (both professionally and socially) and I am currently accident and conviction free (touch wood).
quote:I would certainly agree with you on that point.
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
But what we need, desperately, are more traffic police, not, more speed cameras
Reply ID 19760
I would agree that we need more road policing officers, but in the short term that is not a possibility. Exiled in Reading certainly has an impressive history in driving. Now 21 and having been driving since 17. Putting my 30 years as an Advanced Police Driver (with a period as a PSV driver)(with regular retests) to shame.As to dealing with relatives of dead drivers,of course that is part of the job. I recommend him (or her) to try it. Part of the problem that we have to deal with is his (or her) attitude, that I, (because I have an honours degree) know better than to have to obey speed limits.
Reply ID 19761
As an aside, this item from The Telegraph is rather amusing: [url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&xml=/news/2006/06/15/nspeed15.xml"] Speed trap driver moved 40mph sign to 'prove' he wasn't breaking the limit[/url]
Reply ID 19763
quote:You would make a good journalist. … Putting my comments into context, I have studied road safety as part of my degree.It has no effect on my ability to drive, it only makes me more astute to external factors which could affect the environment. I am more than aware of the spin and propaganda the SCP's use to keep their cushy jobs. I am also aware of the police that I know that have been recognised and honoured for acts of courage, diligence and bravery. Unfortunately, the acts of the former neutralise the latter in many of the publics eye. Over 1/3 of the driving population now have endorsements. More than 1/3 of drivers speed, therefore it is only a matter of time with the increase of safety cameras and automated enforcement until the majority of drivers have convictions.... Lambasting my driving history does you no credit. I have seen some appalling police driving from class 1 drivers. Just because you are an advanced driver with PSV experience doesn’t mean you are Gods gift either my friend... It appears we are both singing from the same song sheet with regards to road safety, albeit it from a different angle.. Perhaps, other officers with 30 odd years experience would be better used actively patrolling and having a presence on our roads than sitting in the back of a van dishing out tickets?
Originally posted by buzz
I would agree that we need more road policing officers, but in the short term that is not a possibility. Exiled in Reading certainly has an impressive history in driving. Now 21 and having been driving since 17. Putting my 30 years as an Advanced Police Driver (with a period as a PSV driver)(with regular retests) to shame.As to dealing with relatives of dead drivers,of course that is part of the job. I recommend him (or her) to try it. Part of the problem that we have to deal with is his (or her) attitude, that I, (because I have an honours degree) know better than to have to obey speed limits.
Reply ID 19766
I've been following this exchange of opinions with interest. Doing a little research unearths the following which might be of interest to others: http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_610815.hcsp quoting from that research "after allowing for the long-term trend, but without allowing for selection effects (such as regression-to-mean) there was a 22% reduction in personal injury collisions (PICs) at sites after cameras were introduced. Overall 42% fewer people were killed or seriously injured" and "There was an association between reductions in speed and reductions in PICs" Also useful link at [url="http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_610815.hcsp limits - how they are set[/url] which tells you how to get the speed limit changed if you think it's wrong. Quote "Speed limits should fit into a rational and easily understood hierarchy if they are to be observed by drivers. Before deciding to change an existing speed limit the Traffic Authority must consider all the relevant factors, including: 1)accident and casualty savings 2)improvement to the environment 3)improvement in conditions and facilities for vulnerable road users reduction in public anxiety 4)increased journey times for motorised traffic 5)costs of implementation 6)costs of engineering measures and their maintenance 7)negative environmental impact of engineering measures 8) costs of enforcement If it is considered that a change in the speed limit is the best course of action, then a Speed limit Order has to be made. This involves a statutory legal process." Speed limits are not *just* for safety - speeding cars are very noisy as anyone who puts up with boy racers doing 60 in built up areas at night know to their consternation. On a personal note, it really isn't hard to stay below the limit without looking at the speedometer and even a quick check takes a fraction of a second, something that should be done on a regular basis anyway - for instance to see when my engine management warning light came on over the weekend :-(
Reply ID 19767
So, "more than 1/3 of drivers speed"........so that makes it alright then? I hardly think that pointing out that you have 4 years driving experience is "lambasting" your driving history...perhaps just putting it into context, and as for the sweeping statement "I have seen some appalling police driving from class 1 drivers"....perhaps you would care to elaborate. To the uneducated, some police driving techniques may appear strange, but that does not mean that they are either dangerous or "appalling". I note that in an earlier comment you mentioned that you have a "squeaky clean" driving record. Well done! So do I, but perhaps after over 40 years driving it's partly due to sticking to speed limits that has helped. I think you will find that recently published figures have shown that the speed cameras along Ware Road have drastically reduced the number of accidents, so whatever the national statistics, as a resident of Hertford, I am more than happy to have them there. You will also notice, that approaching Hertford from Hatfield along the A414, local traffic slows to the 40mph limit whether the camera van is there or not.......a positive contribution to road safety.
Reply ID 19772
quote:Unfortunately there now seem to be lots of ignorant drivers that rely on Speed limits as a guide to driving. This gets particularly infuriating on a long trip when you get stuck behind somebody doing 15-20MPH in a 30 limit on a main through route The current traffic policy seems to be to add more and more speed limits at every possible hazard point on a road. This is leading to ludicrous situations where there is a 40 or 50MPH speed limit on a fairly wide single carriageway A/B class road, yet if you turn off into a single track road then you are allowed to go at 60MPH. None of this alters the fact that there are some people with such a shallow outlook on life that their only thrill in life is to glue half a ton of fibreglass to their car - stick a Sewer Pipe on the end of the exhaust and tear around like a *******. Unfortunately they are mostly all young, and male so more careful drivers get tarred with the same brush.
Originally posted by Hato
FACT---------Speed DOES NOT kill..........what kills is inapropriate use of speed. This is the reason that in general cameras are used in the manor that they are.
Reply ID 19782
quote:I myself have seen girls doing there make up whilst talking on there mobiles and looking in the rear view mirror speeding down the north road so please dont just point the finger at the boy racer crowd as it is a known fact that there are now more girls with high performance cars on the road now then there has ever been and it is also a known fact that nearly 60% of speeding fines are given to ladys who are shooting to school to pick up there children it is a problem that should be addressed to all age groups not just the young or young male
Originally posted by jez_pquote:Unfortunately they are mostly all young, and male so more careful drivers get tarred with the same brush.
Originally posted by Hato
Reply ID 19795
quote:Pointing out that I have 4 years of driving experience then comparing it to yours, I reiterate, did you no credit. Normally people give up "comparing" in the play ground, it seems you have not managed this. I don’t give a tinkers toot how experienced or not you are. You concentrate on keeping your standards high and I will do the same. As an aside, if you’ve got 40 years of driving experience, you must be knocking on 60. A few more years on, are you going to be so blaze about your experience or skills when your reactions start to slow? Still going to think your Mr Class 1? It really is a shame the attitude you appear to have. You, as a police officer really should be encouraging younger drivers to do pass plus, IAM, ROSPA et al, yet you attempt to belittle those who have done so and take pride in their driving. A monkey can pass a driving test, and could probably even be trained to sit at a speed limit and work the gears steering and leverage. It takes someone with an ounce more intelligence to view the conditions and scan the area as per road craft. It may therefore be safe to drive at, below or above the limit - it’s the environment and conditions that are crucial in measuring a safe speed. The police driving I have seen that was outrageous is numerous, as I’m sure many others will attest to. I have, on numerous occasions seen police response drivers take a blind crest on double lines in daylight at way in excess of the limit, where no amount of training would allow for guessing on coming vehicles, or vehicles from hidden turnings. I'm not tarring you all with the same brush (as you have done so with younger drivers) but police drivers are not infallible. The basic test is not that hard to complete so I am told, yet it allows panda drivers to drive (with relevant exemptions) at up to 20mph over the limit, which I advocate is dangerous, especially in urban areas when the limit may be totally inappropriate in the circumstances. Yet if speeding is such a heinous crime, why is it that you are still allowed to drive a police vehicle on police business with up to 6 penalty points? As for the a414 I have just this second come in from driving down there. No camera van, and the natural speed of the traffic was around 50. No fuss, no bother, but just for you Buzz, I kept it down at around an indicated 45 (the conditions were good guv, honest).. As for the "1/3 of drivers" who have convictions, it would be safe to say many, many more speed. Those who are reading this and have driven today, be honest with yourself! I cant remember the exact stats but very high percentages of drivers admit to speeding (in excess of 80) on motorways. The law only works if it has the respect of those whom it binds, and it is time at least for a variable motorway limit to be introduced or a raising of the NSL to 80mph, for the motorway limit, is widely held in contempt by many drivers.
Originally posted by buzz
So, "more than 1/3 of drivers speed"........so that makes it alright then? I hardly think that pointing out that you have 4 years driving experience is "lambasting" your driving history...perhaps just putting it into context, and as for the sweeping statement "I have seen some appalling police driving from class 1 drivers"....perhaps you would care to elaborate. To the uneducated, some police driving techniques may appear strange, but that does not mean that they are either dangerous or "appalling". I note that in an earlier comment you mentioned that you have a "squeaky clean" driving record. Well done! So do I, but perhaps after over 40 years driving it's partly due to sticking to speed limits that has helped. I think you will find that recently published figures have shown that the speed cameras along Ware Road have drastically reduced the number of accidents, so whatever the national statistics, as a resident of Hertford, I am more than happy to have them there. You will also notice, that approaching Hertford from Hatfield along the A414, local traffic slows to the 40mph limit whether the camera van is there or not.......a positive contribution to road safety.
Reply ID 19797
I must say that your tone is really rather offensive. Pointing out that you have 4 years driving experience is a fact as is the fact that I have considerably more years of experience. You state that I attempt to belittle younger drivers. How exactly have I done that? You also state that you have on "numerous occasions" seen police drivers "take a blind crest on double lines in daylight at way in excess of the limit". Yet, again, another sweeping statement with nothing to support it.I could equally state that I had seen someone who looked like Exiled in Reading exceeding the speed limit. Equally fatuous. Let's put things into perspective. If you want to play a game of football, you accept that there are certain rules. If the referee deems that you have broken the rules, you pay a certain penalty, ie. a yellow card or a red card. If you want to drive on our roads, you must accept, (whether you like it or not) that there are certain rules. Either accept the rules or don't play the game
Reply ID 19799
quote:Verbatim : "Exiled in Reading certainly has an impressive history in driving. Now 21 and having been driving since 17. Putting my 30 years as an Advanced Police Driver (with a period as a PSV driver)(with regular retests) to shame" Slightly factious, wouldn't you say, regardless of the facts involved, which I would consider to be belittling to other drivers with similar experience who take a great pride in their driving... With regards to my allegations of poor police driving, (at the risk of stating the bleeding obvious) you don’t exactly have to be Dixon of Dock Green to realise I have no evidence of such behaviour, as recording it wasn’t really my number one priority at the time... Given the fact that police cars look like jam sarnies, and what I look like or the car I drive is information you are not privy to, I put it to you your comparison is poor, very poor. Hey, if I get nicked fair and square; the camera has been calibrated and all procedures and time limits have been followed, I'll take it on the chin. If they haven’t, ill be onto it, as I believe the police, or SCP's should really have better priorities than raising revenue from speed camera fines... Nothing personal against you Buzz, I think the police in the main do a good job and are good value for what they cost. However the speed camera debate can go round in circles, and I feel this one is nearly reaching its natural conclusion!
Originally posted by buzz
I must say that your tone is really rather offensive. Pointing out that you have 4 years driving experience is a fact as is the fact that I have considerably more years of experience. You state that I attempt to belittle younger drivers. How exactly have I done that? You also state that you have on "numerous occasions" seen police drivers "take a blind crest on double lines in daylight at way in excess of the limit". Yet, again, another sweeping statement with nothing to support it.I could equally state that I had seen someone who looked like Exiled in Reading exceeding the speed limit. Equally fatuous. Let's put things into perspective. If you want to play a game of football, you accept that there are certain rules. If the referee deems that you have broken the rules, you pay a certain penalty, ie. a yellow card or a red card. If you want to drive on our roads, you must accept, (whether you like it or not) that there are certain rules. Either accept the rules or don't play the game
Reply ID 19800
Surely all this bickering is off topic. It is not discussing the speed camera in North Road, HERTFORD, which is what this thread in entitled!!
Reply ID 19802
Exiled: You come across as very arrogant. You take a very patronising tone with anyone that dares to have an opinion different from your own and you seem to have little respect for anyone else's qualifications whilst expecting your own to be acknowledged. One of the characteristics of a good driver is courtesy, but judging by your posts here it appears to be something you have little time for. Please remember that you are a guest here and behave accordingly.
Reply ID 19803
quote:I'm sorry that you think I come across as arrogant Steve. I have to say I think you also come across as being a pedant in many of your posts which stifles healthy debate, - you have your opinion and ill have mine. I must also say that you come across as very arrogant in your other “clara” website (the URL I shall not give out), your opinions on many matters I find particularly offensive. But we live in a democracy in a beautiful part of the world, so I for on would be the first to defend your right to say something even if I do not agree with it. Actually I feel I had better explain what I meant by offensive. One view which I especially found particularly offensive.Its not a big deal but it irked me a bit. Especially your views on the Catholic Church; "The Catholic faith is harmful to all who are indoctrinated by it's teachings, especially small children and adolescents, in whom it has a passionate interest. If there are any saints and martyrs then they are named Sinead and Harold". I could go on but I wont. I think you get the picture... As for the whole "guest" thing, that’s fair enough, but you should realise that when you criticise your guests for putting forward their opinion based with statistics, you cannot expect them to continue to contribute and bring different opines to the table. So, with respect, if you carry on doing this, you will find this board to be a very dull and boring place to visit...
Originally posted by Steve
Exiled: You come across as very arrogant. You take a very patronising tone with anyone that dares to have an opinion different from your own and you seem to have little respect for anyone else's qualifications whilst expecting your own to be acknowledged. One of the characteristics of a good driver is courtesy, but judging by your posts here it appears to be something you have little time for. Please remember that you are a guest here and behave accordingly.
Reply ID 19804
Interesting that you found a need to Google me
Reply ID 19805
Not really, your a fairly well known chap around town who is involved in the running of the main website which I have used (but not posted on) for years. Respect, and courtesy works both ways, and opinions are subjective as to what is patronising and arrogant. I found many of your views published on your other site so patronising and arrogant that they made me cringe. But its your site, your opinions and you are quite entitled to them and to publish them. I wont post the link but your site is there for all to see and your views are quite prominent on it....
Reply ID 19806
You get more opinionated as you get older [;)]
Reply ID 19807
quote:And fair play to you sir. I for one might not agree with a lot of what you say, but I respect your right to say it.
Originally posted by Steve
You get more opinionated as you get older [;)]
Reply ID 19808
quote:
Originally posted by exiled_in_Readingquote:Verbatim : "Exiled in Reading certainly has an impressive history in driving. Now 21 and having been driving since 17. Putting my 30 years as an Advanced Police Driver (with a period as a PSV driver)(with regular retests) to shame" Slightly factious, wouldn't you say, regardless of the facts involved, which I would consider to be belittling to other drivers with similar experience who take a great pride in their driving... With regards to my allegations of poor police driving, (at the risk of stating the bleeding obvious) you don’t exactly have to be Dixon of Dock Green to realise I have no evidence of such behaviour, as recording it wasn’t really my number one priority at the time... Given the fact that police cars look like jam sarnies, and what I look like or the car I drive is information you are not privy to, I put it to you your comparison is poor, very poor. Hey, if I get nicked fair and square; the camera has been calibrated and all procedures and time limits have been followed, I'll take it on the chin. If they haven’t, ill be onto it, as I believe the police, or SCP's should really have better priorities than raising revenue from speed camera fines... Nothing personal against you Buzz, I think the police in the main do a good job and are good value for what they cost. However the speed camera debate can go round in circles, and I feel this one is nearly reaching its natural conclusion!
Originally posted by buzz
I must say that your tone is really rather offensive. Pointing out that you have 4 years driving experience is a fact as is the fact that I have considerably more years of experience. You state that I attempt to belittle younger drivers. How exactly have I done that? You also state that you have on "numerous occasions" seen police drivers "take a blind crest on double lines in daylight at way in excess of the limit". Yet, again, another sweeping statement with nothing to support it.I could equally state that I had seen someone who looked like Exiled in Reading exceeding the speed limit. Equally fatuous. Let's put things into perspective. If you want to play a game of football, you accept that there are certain rules. If the referee deems that you have broken the rules, you pay a certain penalty, ie. a yellow card or a red card. If you want to drive on our roads, you must accept, (whether you like it or not) that there are certain rules. Either accept the rules or don't play the game
Reply ID 19809
Once again, can I ask you to explain how my comments belittle younger drivers? I agree that this topic has now reached its natural conclusion, and will be happy for other readers to draw their own conclusions regarding the discussions.
Reply ID 19810
quote:I felt the comment "EIR’s 4 years of claim free motoring puts my 40 year driving record to *shame*” (my emphasis) was a deliberate and fairly cheap attempt to belittle the fact that I have intimated that I am 21 and have 4 years claim free motoring behind me, when I could quite easily have been a keyboard warrior and lied... Not a big deal, but you came across as patronising , when you compared our (factually correct) driving records. It was the manner in which you presented it that I found condescending and unnecessary. I've enjoyed debating this with you, and respect your opinions. Lets just hope we never have to meet in a professional capacity.
Originally posted by buzz
Once again, can I ask you to explain how my comments belittle younger drivers? I agree that this topic has now reached its natural conclusion, and will be happy for other readers to draw their own conclusions regarding the discussions.
Reply ID 19818
It would be nice to see some references for all these claimns that are being made. Without references they are just opinion of course.
Reply ID 19825
Why not just accept the speed limit is what it is, drive to it/within it whatever the conditions, however technologically advanced your car is and however many advanced driving tests you've taken...and relax. Leave 5 minutes earlier, put on a CD of chill out music and think happy, stress free thoughts.
Reply ID 19829
Wow, I've only been away on holiday a week and I've missed all this fun! [:)] I just read the whole thread. it was great. Exile in Reading, you really need someone to help you pull your head out of your backside. It doesn't matter how good a driver you think you are, you simply cannot quantify it. Most bad drivers also think they are good drivers. Are they all wrong and you are right!? I think we already know the answer to that....... .
Reply ID 19834
quote:Quite right, it's supposed to be there for the good of all, pedestrians, other road users, etc etc Just don't break the limit, it's there for a purpose across the whole country.
Originally posted by 2929paul
Why not just accept the speed limit is what it is...
Reply ID 19835
quote:If you have read the whole thread, as you claim, I put it to you that you have not actually understood a word of what I have said. I am ALL TOO aware of my limitations as a driver, and I work to ameliorate my flaws every time I get in the car and turn the key. I have undertaken advanced training, and I am about to undertake some more to become an observer. Driving is a dynamic experience, involving interaction between the car and driver, and the driver environment/conditions in which he/she is driving. Driving at, below or above the limit is really rather here nor there in many cases. One salient example that Buzz might have experience of, is the young lad in Stevenage who drove slightly above the speed limit, but unfortunately did so with his head sticking out of the window. He died, and if memory serves his passenger was seriously injured when they hit the curb and the car was involved in a collision with road furniture. The stretch of road where this occurred is a notorious haunt for a camera van. The camera van wouldn’t have saved his life, but a police car pulling him over and or prosecuting him for driving like such an idiot might have done so. If more speed cameras are installed and they take the place of trained traffic officers, there will be trouble, more people will die as a result of dire driving, and it might be your door that Buzz is knocking on to tell you your son has died as a result of a collision with a telephone pole. If you drive without regards to the conditions, you will die very very soon. That is quite simple. I do not need stats to prove this; if you have driven a car in the snow/ice/heavy rain you should know this for yourself... To be honest with you all, I’ve said all I can say with regards to this. To the likes of Dude, paul1234 or who ever you are - I am confident to say that although I don’t know you from adam, if you’ve driven a car for any length of time or distance, you will have committed an offence of speeding. 31 in a 30 41 in a 40 80 in a 70 They are all offences and all are strict liability. Your attitude in particular dude is laughable, I would bet a penny to a pound that a) if you met me in a pub and we started this conversation you wouldn’t have spoken to me like you have and b) you would have admitted to exceeded a speed limit in your time, nay, today if you’ve driven a car. Yet you appear to be so self righteous that you are not man enough to admit it. So come on, grow some bollocks and admit you’ve exceeded the speed limit in your motoring career, and that you did it safely. Ill say it once more, then ill leave it. Speed doesn’t kill. Driving to the conditions, below, at, or above the speed limit, is the key to survival. Get some advanced training, and you will see this for yourself. Someone else can have the last word, but be mindful of the fact that whilst you can hide behind your computer and spout off self righteous clap trap, its YOU who is responsible for the safety of yourself, your passengers and the pedestrians around you. Choose your speed carefully folks...
Originally posted by Dude
Wow, I've only been away on holiday a week and I've missed all this fun! [:)] I just read the whole thread. it was great. Exile in Reading, you really need someone to help you pull your head out of your backside. It doesn't matter how good a driver you think you are, you simply cannot quantify it. Most bad drivers also think they are good drivers. Are they all wrong and you are right!? I think we already know the answer to that....... .
Reply ID 19849
Some of the things that have been said on this topic are starting to be taken very much to heart by some people the light hints of threatening behavour are not what this whole site is about thay are for us to share thoughts and give ideas on how to improve things not take cheap shoots at each outher and be nasty please understand that as a new member to this site i have found this to be very helpful to myself in many ways but new people that might look at this site may find that the attitude and opinions may be a little confrontational please lets just stand back take a breath and say exiled in reading has a very strong opinion on this topic for wot ever reason but it is his opinion and this is a free country with freedom of speach shake hands and be freinds please e
Reply ID 19851
quote:Actually, you are wrong. You need to be doing at least 10% over the speed limit before you commit the offence.
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
To be honest with you all, I’ve said all I can say with regards to this. To the likes of Dude, paul1234 or who ever you are - I am confident to say that although I don’t know you from adam, if you’ve driven a car for any length of time or distance, you will have committed an offence of speeding. 31 in a 30 41 in a 40
Reply ID 19852
quote:Rubbish. ACPO *guidelines* (not law) are that generally you will be prosecuted if you exceed the speed limit by 10% of the prevailing limit plus 2mph. It is possible however for you to be prosecuted for driving 1mph over the limit, and there have been rumours of FPNS being issued in north Wales for 32mph in 30 zones. It is not commonplace for prosecutions to be initiated because of the issue of camera accuracy and calibration. As far as the strict letter of the law is concerned, an offence is committed if you exceed the limit, it matters not by what margin, and a prosecution is possible, but not probable if you are detected doing so.
Originally posted by JohnSmithquote:Actually, you are wrong. You need to be doing at least 10% over the speed limit before you commit the offence.
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
To be honest with you all, I’ve said all I can say with regards to this. To the likes of Dude, paul1234 or who ever you are - I am confident to say that although I don’t know you from adam, if you’ve driven a car for any length of time or distance, you will have committed an offence of speeding. 31 in a 30 41 in a 40
Reply ID 19857
is this the same when caught by a portable speed gun as i thought that if you are caught and spoken to the gun reading has to be callibrated to confirm it correct plus if it is only a civillian the judgement does not stand and cant be tried plus between 30-35 it was at the discretion of the officer dealing with the matter 35-40 was out of there hands and had to be dealt with by a senior officer who then refers it to the c.p.s
Reply ID 19869
It is not the accuracy of cameras or speed guns which is in question but the speedometer of the car which has a 10% margin of error.
Reply ID 19870
but i thought this thread was called speed camera north road not speedometer north road
Reply ID 19876
Speedos are allowed to over-read by a margin but are legally forbidden to under-read by any margin. Therefore when your Speedo reads 32/3 mph it is likely you are only doing 30mph. Likewise, my Speedo can read 79/80mph but my GPS verifies the true speed to be 70 mph. The calibration of the camera is very important, - I am sceptical of the accuracy of the LTI 20/20 from my research, on more than one occasion has the camera provided readings of speed of static objects under test conditions..
Reply ID 19882
I can't see the problem with having a camera in North Road. Look at the speed some people drive out of Hertford at. I have shunted someone up the rear coming into Hertford at 40 or 45...would that have happened had I known about a camera there? And before anyone thinks I'm a holier than thou goody goody. Normally I would align myself with people who would take a chainsaw to all speed cameras. But even I can acknowledge their use in some places.
Reply ID 19896
quote:At last - someone actually discussing the speed camera in North Road, which this thread is supposed to be about. Thanks for bringing us all back to Hertford, Carlos!!
Originally posted by carlos fandango
I can't see the problem with having a camera in North Road. Look at the speed some people drive out of Hertford at. I have shunted someone up the rear coming into Hertford at 40 or 45...would that have happened had I known about a camera there? And before anyone thinks I'm a holier than thou goody goody. Normally I would align myself with people who would take a chainsaw to all speed cameras. But even I can acknowledge their use in some places.
Reply ID 19932
Having read this post with shock and amazement, i would just like to add that whenever i see one of those signs with a red flower saying 'remember me' that is enough to keep me to those speed limits as i take time out to think of those who have lost a loved one in a road accident. Please all take care of yourselves on the road and others....
Reply ID 19970
What red flowers? Have I been concentrating so hard on the traffic in front of me and keeping to the speed limits that I've not noticed these 'remember me' signs?
Reply ID 19975
There are black A4 size boards with a red flower symbol saying 'remember me'.... These are placed in some places where someone has died in a road accident. I know of 3 in the hertford area alone. These i believe are placed by the families/loved ones, obviously not every family decide to have one placed but it is a good reminder each time i see one.
Reply ID 19984
I have seen these thay are more often as not put there also to remind people these are black spots people take care on the roads and take care of each outher STAY SAFE always
Reply ID 20128
quote:Agreed. Ultimately they are in areas where there have been problems and harm to people. So what alternative measures should there be to reduce the risk?
Originally posted by jayzee
I have seen these thay are more often as not put there also to remind people these are black spots people take care on the roads and take care of each outher STAY SAFE always
Reply ID 20129
quote:Install speed limiters on all cars that restrict them to 30mph.
Originally posted by Ewoowar
Agreed. Ultimately they are in areas where there have been problems and harm to people. So what alternative measures should there be to reduce the risk?
Reply ID 20130
with technology the way it is surely install a micro chip or something onto the road signs then something that the cars can pick up in some form of signal from it to reduce the cars speed to the correct mph once you go past it speed cameras can read your speed on approach how about on approach to the camera box it detects your speed and then slows you down costly at first but what price do you put on a human life
Reply ID 20141
quote:Dangerous technology in the wrong hands.
Originally posted by jayzee
with technology the way it is surely install a micro chip or something onto the road signs then something that the cars can pick up in some form of signal from it to reduce the cars speed to the correct mph once you go past it speed cameras can read your speed on approach how about on approach to the camera box it detects your speed and then slows you down costly at first but what price do you put on a human life
Reply ID 20144
how you still have full control of the car but no matter how far you put you foot down you can only do the speed for that area
Reply ID 20145
the problem is what if you need to accelerate out of trouble? you can't... I believe this has been mentioned before - in the other case the idea is you have an override switch, and it can only be used so many times or something, but when you're in an emergency would you remember to hit the switch? then there's the cost... this would cost huge amounts!
Reply ID 20146
quote:Like the cars themselves. I’m certainly no angel and I have speeded and enjoy the thrill of having a powerful and very fast car. I agree that a police warning would have a better effect on me then perhaps a ticket 2 weeks after I got flashed. Speed cameras, by their nature, will only catch those that speed and yes that’s illegal (I’m not going to get in to the argument of speed equating to dangerous driving). However, they will only make many speeders brake and slow down over the distance they cover and then its back to speeding again. I have driven a number of times through some of the M1’s recent road works. Rather than the usual speed cameras (where most [but not all] people brake, drive at 40mph then speed up again) they have the average time over a distance camera. So if you cover the distance it patrols in a certain time that is too quick then it calculates you have speeded over the distance and you are ticketed. Nobody on my runs did the speed-brake-speed trick. Sounds good – however I did speed much of my time concentrating on the speedo and not the road to ensure I didn’t hit a few miles over the limit over my journey. I expect even those that just don’t speed would spend quite some time making sure then certainly did not stray a few miles too fast (which on a motorway can be easily done). For me I set the cruise control to 39mph but not everyone has that luxury and personally I don’t really like the ‘feel’ of cruise control driving but better than a ticket. The use of speed cameras to slow people outside say schools (for those that don’t slow down as a matter of course) seems the only current method. For me, it’s the ones that I feel are trying to catch me out, just before or after a higher speed limit that give the pure cash generation feeling many have towards speed cameras.
Dangerous technology in the wrong hands.
Reply ID 20147
Even if we did install smart speed limiters in Cars that ensured nobody could ever break the speed limit, It may prevent a few accidents but ultimately it doesn't solve the problem of bad driving. Most accidents are caused by bad driving!!!!! I have read a website that questioned the official statistics that one third of accidents are caused by speed. This report alleged that the 1/3 also included "Failure to judge the speed of an approching vehicle" regardless of wether the vehicle was exceeding the limit. I did want to post the link but unfortunately the website has closed.
Reply ID 20712
quote:So Jez if you agree with this unknown website you are saying that we could reduce all accidents by a third if only we all stuck to the speed limits. Amen to that.
I have read a website that questioned the official statistics that one third of accidents are caused by speed.
Reply ID 20731
No actually the unkown website said that the 1/3 of accidents "caused by speed" included accidents where both parties were travelling below the speed limit but somebody pulled out of a side road in front of a car (ie failure to judge the speed of another vehicle) the unknown website is http://www.onethirdlie.org.uk/ but it has now closed down. I believe that government acciden statistics are available and if you do the right maths on the figures you can prove that accidents will not be reduced by 1/3 if we all stuck to the speed limits.
Reply ID 20760
Aah i see. Unfortunately the website is blocked by my work (they don't let us get into anything they consider dodgy!) the reason given is that "The Websense category "Advocacy Groups" is filtered." They don't filter any normal stuff like [url]http://www.scotland.gov.uk/library/documents-w2/hmcr-06.htm[/url] which does indeed say "Speed is a recognised factor in about one-third of road accidents". It may be where the other website got the figure from and added their own bit of spin.
Reply ID 20792
The Think Website also quotes the following statistics
quote:But it doesn't clarify what excessive speed means Tanking down a single track road in a very rural area at 55MPH may legally be fine but it is stupid, dangerous and almost certainly excessive speed. Driving along North Road at 31MPH is illegal but not necessarily excessive or dangerous. I have never seen a quote saying that xx% of accidents are caused by people exceeding the speed limit. Ultimately: Speed limits are put there for a reason - and driving at excessive speed is stupid and dangerous!
http://www.thinkroadsafety.gov.uk/campaigns/slowdown/slowdown.htm
For the time period 2000 to 2004, excessive speed was a contributory factor in about: * 13 per cent of all injury collisions; * 19 per cent of serious injury collisions; * 29 per cent of fatal collisions.
Reply ID 20794
I think possibly that this thread is going way off topic as a hertford issue and getting far too general. Perhaps we should leave it unless anybody has any more Hertford Specific information to add.
Reply ID 20796
Agreed Jez its gone off Hertford a bit but I would like to see a permanent speed camera on North Road cos i live there. 1: because of the noise speeding cars make when I'm in my back garden and 2: I still have a wobbly gatepost where a speeding teenager lost control of his car coming round the corner into our road and ploughed into the car parked 10 feet away - this car was shunted into our drive. Its possible he was distracted by someone up a ladder. I don't know anything else about the poor kid except that he died (my neighbour tells me it happened a couple of years before we moved in). It says a lot about my diy skills that the post is still wobbly :) after 4 years!
Reply ID 20984
quote:This is classic! [:)] You seem to be having conversations in your own head. You have accused, tried and convicted other people on a topic you haven't even read their views on! Are you sure you shouldn't be called "Sentenced In Reading"...it would make a lot more sense. [:D]
Originally posted by exiled_in_Readingquote:If you have read the whole thread, as you claim, I put it to you that you have not actually understood a word of what I have said. I am ALL TOO aware of my limitations as a driver, and I work to ameliorate my flaws every time I get in the car and turn the key. I have undertaken advanced training, and I am about to undertake some more to become an observer. Driving is a dynamic experience, involving interaction between the car and driver, and the driver environment/conditions in which he/she is driving. Driving at, below or above the limit is really rather here nor there in many cases. One salient example that Buzz might have experience of, is the young lad in Stevenage who drove slightly above the speed limit, but unfortunately did so with his head sticking out of the window. He died, and if memory serves his passenger was seriously injured when they hit the curb and the car was involved in a collision with road furniture. The stretch of road where this occurred is a notorious haunt for a camera van. The camera van wouldn’t have saved his life, but a police car pulling him over and or prosecuting him for driving like such an idiot might have done so. If more speed cameras are installed and they take the place of trained traffic officers, there will be trouble, more people will die as a result of dire driving, and it might be your door that Buzz is knocking on to tell you your son has died as a result of a collision with a telephone pole. If you drive without regards to the conditions, you will die very very soon. That is quite simple. I do not need stats to prove this; if you have driven a car in the snow/ice/heavy rain you should know this for yourself... To be honest with you all, I’ve said all I can say with regards to this. To the likes of Dude, paul1234 or who ever you are - I am confident to say that although I don’t know you from adam, if you’ve driven a car for any length of time or distance, you will have committed an offence of speeding. 31 in a 30 41 in a 40 80 in a 70 They are all offences and all are strict liability. Your attitude in particular dude is laughable, I would bet a penny to a pound that a) if you met me in a pub and we started this conversation you wouldn’t have spoken to me like you have and b) you would have admitted to exceeded a speed limit in your time, nay, today if you’ve driven a car. Yet you appear to be so self righteous that you are not man enough to admit it. So come on, grow some bollocks and admit you’ve exceeded the speed limit in your motoring career, and that you did it safely. Ill say it once more, then ill leave it. Speed doesn’t kill. Driving to the conditions, below, at, or above the speed limit, is the key to survival. Get some advanced training, and you will see this for yourself. Someone else can have the last word, but be mindful of the fact that whilst you can hide behind your computer and spout off self righteous clap trap, its YOU who is responsible for the safety of yourself, your passengers and the pedestrians around you. Choose your speed carefully folks...
Originally posted by Dude
Wow, I've only been away on holiday a week and I've missed all this fun! [:)] I just read the whole thread. it was great. Exile in Reading, you really need someone to help you pull your head out of your backside. It doesn't matter how good a driver you think you are, you simply cannot quantify it. Most bad drivers also think they are good drivers. Are they all wrong and you are right!? I think we already know the answer to that....... .