Topic ID 1571
Mrs JS parked in St Andrew Street car park and noticed that the car in the bay next to her had a ticket on it because it was parked about 1 inch on the white line dividing the bays. She then pointed said "what would they do if one car was parked on the dividing line and all the cars next to it had to park on the dividing line?" It's pathetic that the parking attendants will issue a fine for such a trivial offence but totally ignore cars that are blatantly parked illegally.
Reply ID 19297
I agree very pathetic! I personally think the bay sizes in st andrews street are smaller than others. Gill (posting as jez_p)
Reply ID 19311
Parkng attendants are just out to make a profit by issuing as many fines as possible. They are just following a set of rules to the letter without any thought as to the reasons behind the rules. Jez_P (Me this time)
Reply ID 19320
I noticed they were out ticketing on Saturday night again.
Reply ID 19321
But are nowhere to be seen when it's raining or when there's a big football match on... strange that.
Reply ID 20181
i got a ticket on my car wen my ticket said 12.51 and there issued one said 12.52 i tried to argue it with the man an he just raised his arm smirked and walked of. ( i was in the docters with my new born)
Reply ID 20184
If it had been pay on foot/exit then you would have just had to pay for 2 hours rather than 30 - pathetic isn't the word.
Reply ID 20185
I thought that the traffic wardens were there to ensure that vehicles were not causing an obstruction. Saw a traffic warden in Bircherley Green car park today waiting by a car whose ticket was obviously due to expire. They are just looking for an easy nick rather than keeping the traffic moving. He was also leaning against the car which, to me, is out of order.
Reply ID 20186
quote:You are misguided in that assumption - Traffic Wardens are a private company that is out to make money
Originally posted by JohnSmith
I thought that the traffic wardens were there to ensure that vehicles were not causing an obstruction. Saw a traffic warden in Bircherley Green car park today waiting by a car whose ticket was obviously due to expire. They are just looking for an easy nick rather than keeping the traffic moving.
Reply ID 20187
Ah yes, like First Capital Connect. Their primary concern is to make as much money as possible, not carry out their required task to the best of their ability.
Reply ID 20188
quote:As I understand it, the company that provides the Parking Attendants don't make any money from tickets. They have a fixed price contract with the council. The attendents are "encouraged" to issue enough tickets to cover the council's cost, so that effectively, parking control is not funded by Council Taxpayers - that's the theory anyway.
You are misguided in that assumption - Traffic Wardens are a private company that is out to make money
Reply ID 20192
As Cllr Alexander once told me - "we buy x number of hours". You will also see in the Mercury letters that he says "our parking attendants". The are not, they are employed by CPS who as Steve quite rightly says charge East Herts a fee for enforcing parking. The problem, as was pointed out to East Herts by one of the consultants Pell Frischmann and was well illustrated in Three Rivers, is that if motorists are honest and if the level of penalty notices falls because enforcement starts to work - you have a problem because income will not meet contract fee. Hence a deficit of £130,000 in the first year which has to be made up in the second year in a declining market because you've driven out (excuse the pun) all the motorists. Somewhere someone has worked out that to recover the contract cost there has to be an average of x tickets issued day, hence the idea of targets. Hence the occsassional Sunday working and Bank Holiday working. And a small black man in the woodpile is that part of the budget balancing act was an income from parking meters in the town centre that had to dropped beause town councillors and traders were totally against it. Therefore there is no room for 'periods of grace' or for that matter - common sense. I don't contribute much to this debate any more because I'm tired of it having written thousands of words on the subject and no one takes the slightest bit of notice. And i don't hold out much hope for Pay on Exit either. The capital cost is quite phenonemal; not just in hertford but accross East Herts. I am glad I am not in Cllr Alexander's shoes.
Reply ID 20195
I've never had a ticket from any of Hertfords wardens because I have not been into the town centre since they arrived. Hertfords loss is another towns gain. Sorry Hertford shopkeepers but I have no intention of going into Hertford until the wardens are gone.
Reply ID 20196
quote:Where on earth are you shopping then!? As was made clear in the news reports this week, this is an issue for towns and cities across the country since the national change in the rules governing parking enforcement. I am aware of similar problems occuring in our neighbouring towns, whichever council the come under.
Originally posted by Reg Varny
I've never had a ticket from any of Hertfords wardens because I have not been into the town centre since they arrived. Hertfords loss is another towns gain. Sorry Hertford shopkeepers but I have no intention of going into Hertford until the wardens are gone.
Reply ID 20197
Yes but you can park in WGC in a pay on exit car park without fear of getting a ticket. Also Brookfield Farm and Hatfield Tescos (and the surrounding Shops) have unrestricted free parking. If you risk having to pay £30 to park in Hertford, it makes the alternatives much more viable.
Reply ID 20198
Nobody can seem to answer my question. How did we pay for traffic wardens before the new system? And where has all the money now gone that used to pay for it?
Reply ID 20199
quote:The Traffic Wardens were provided by the local constabulary and paid for out of their budget. They withdrew them so that the money could be spent on policing.
Originally posted by jez_p
Nobody can seem to answer my question. How did we pay for traffic wardens before the new system? And where has all the money now gone that used to pay for it?
Reply ID 20203
quote:Park legally and you won't have a problem. It's your loss not shopping in this great town, not the shopkeepers[:(]
Originally posted by Reg Varny
I've never had a ticket from any of Hertfords wardens because I have not been into the town centre since they arrived. Hertfords loss is another towns gain. Sorry Hertford shopkeepers but I have no intention of going into Hertford until the wardens are gone.
Reply ID 20228
Wrong attitude. We went shopping in St Albans Saturday. Wider range of shops, not that painful to get to. For our trip there, you could probably add in dozens of people who go to WGC.
Reply ID 20229
quote:Re. "Park legally and you won't have a problem", I have to disagree strongly. Check the following post..... http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=1179&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=feeding ......and there are many other similar cases. Add to this the traffic wardens who apply the strict letter of the regulations punitively, such as giving fines for those whose tyres simply touch the white lines of a bay, and you get behaviour and an atmosphere that drives the customers out of town.
Originally posted by Tiggerquote:Park legally and you won't have a problem. It's your loss not shopping in this great town, not the shopkeepers[:(]
Originally posted by Reg Varny
I've never had a ticket from any of Hertfords wardens because I have not been into the town centre since they arrived. Hertfords loss is another towns gain. Sorry Hertford shopkeepers but I have no intention of going into Hertford until the wardens are gone.
Reply ID 20237
quote:If people don’t think they are able to easily (and fairly) park in Hertford then they will go elsewhere and spend their money elsewhere and thus the shopkeepers of Hertford will miss out. A town like Hertford should be doing everything possible to keep revenue spend within its boundaries otherwise shops will go out of business. How long will the town remain 'great' then?
Park legally and you won't have a problem. It's your loss not shopping in this great town, not the shopkeepers[:(]
Reply ID 20250
quote:But all town centres have parking attendants these days, working to similar standards. St Albans, for example, is not without its problems. And before travelling to out of town centres, why don't people factor in the cost of travelling? Petrol and wear and tear (excluding tax, insurance, etc) mean it typically costs around 24p per mile to drive anyhwhere - so a trip to Brookfield Farm costs £4.50 - to avoid £3 long stay parking in Hertford.
If people don’t think they are able to easily (and fairly) park in Hertford then they will go elsewhere and spend their money elsewhere and thus the shopkeepers of Hertford will miss out.
Reply ID 20258
Since I live within walking distance of Hertford I rarely drive in to town and so don’t have a great deal of parking experience in Hertford (other than the multi-storey car park with ludicrously narrow spaces). So, I could be shot down in flames over this but I have driven and shopped in both St. Albans and WGC. Distance aside, both towns seem to have far superior parking facilities for someone travelling there to shop (I’m sure they have parking attendants too). They have a better range of typical high-street shops too. It just seems that having difficult/unfair parking attendants in Hertford may add another reason for a shopper to look elsewhere when thinking of the pros/cons of Hertford’s shopping experience.
Reply ID 20259
As a non driver I am unaffected by questions of parking charges and shop in Hertford, WGS and St Albans. WGC and St Albans are bound to have a wider selection of shops purely because they have populations over twice that of Hertford. There are some things just not available in Hertford because of its size and so you have to travel.
Reply ID 20282
quote:Food shopping is done at Morrisons and Lidls in WGC. No wardens there. Most other things are bought on line.
Originally posted by Katequote:Where on earth are you shopping then!? As was made clear in the news reports this week, this is an issue for towns and cities across the country since the national change in the rules governing parking enforcement. I am aware of similar problems occuring in our neighbouring towns, whichever council the come under.
Originally posted by Reg Varny
I've never had a ticket from any of Hertfords wardens because I have not been into the town centre since they arrived. Hertfords loss is another towns gain. Sorry Hertford shopkeepers but I have no intention of going into Hertford until the wardens are gone.
Reply ID 20286
quote:Food shopping aside, if you buy most other things online, then your original claim that "Hertford's loss is another town's gain" doesn't really hold.
Originally posted by Reg VarnyFood shopping is done at Morrisons and Lidls in WGC. No wardens there. Most other things are bought on line.
Reply ID 20425
Can I just ask why I always see wardens in the car parks in St Andrews Street and above Waitrose checking peoples paid for tickets in a correct parking area but have yet to see one in Maidenhead Street where there always seem to be cars parked in what is supposed to be a "pedestrian" zone so I have always assumed should be for delivery vehicles only..................
Reply ID 20434
quote:So the part of our council tax that used to pay for traffic wardens is now going to the police and we have to pay for the traffic wardens twice. No wonder crime is so bad when even the police are stealing money from us.
Originally posted by Steve
The Traffic Wardens were provided by the local constabulary and paid for out of their budget. They withdrew them so that the money could be spent on policing.
Reply ID 20435
quote:Shooting fish in a barrel - why go looking all over Hertford for random parking offences when you can just wander out of your office into the car park and wait for somebody to arrive 1 minute late back to their car.
Originally posted by Marilyn
Can I just ask why I always see wardens in the car parks in St Andrews Street and above Waitrose checking peoples paid for tickets in a correct parking area but have yet to see one in Maidenhead Street where there always seem to be cars parked in what is supposed to be a "pedestrian" zone so I have always assumed should be for delivery vehicles only..................
Reply ID 20484
quote:that was rather what I thought you would say.................
Originally posted by jez_pquote:Shooting fish in a barrel - why go looking all over Hertford for random parking offences when you can just wander out of your office into the car park and wait for somebody to arrive 1 minute late back to their car.
Originally posted by Marilyn
Can I just ask why I always see wardens in the car parks in St Andrews Street and above Waitrose checking peoples paid for tickets in a correct parking area but have yet to see one in Maidenhead Street where there always seem to be cars parked in what is supposed to be a "pedestrian" zone so I have always assumed should be for delivery vehicles only..................
Reply ID 20486
The basic problem with parking enforcement is the council's dogmatic and wrong-headed view that it should pay for itself. Parking enforcement is a public service and should therefore be funded out of public money and operated in the public interest. At the moment it is a service which is funded by the motorist in the interest of the council. Hence the zero-tolerance approach adopted in order to bring in as much money as possible to cover the council's costs. They're running it as a business instead of a public service.
Reply ID 20487
quote:Which just means we'd need to all pay for it through increased Council Tax as 'public money' has to come from the public!
Originally posted by Steve
Parking enforcement is a public service and should therefore be funded out of public money and operated in the public interest.
Reply ID 20489
quote:That's the general idea, yes. How else do you propose funding public services? If you want something you have to pay for it.
Originally posted by Kate
Which just means we'd need to all pay for it through increased Council Tax as 'public money' has to come from the public!
Reply ID 20497
quote:What if I don't want to pay increased council tax for traffic wardens who heavily patrol car parks? There would be better feeling toward them if they got off their collective a*ses, walked up the hills to the continuing problem areas and actually issued tickets where they were needed instead of lurking in shady/sheltered multi-storeys waiting for an easy ticket.
Originally posted by Stevequote:That's the general idea, yes. How else do you propose funding public services? If you want something you have to pay for it.
Originally posted by Kate
Which just means we'd need to all pay for it through increased Council Tax as 'public money' has to come from the public!
Reply ID 20502
quote:That's exactly my point. The only reason they hang around car parks is to generate income - it's got nothing to do with controlling illegal parking. Far better that they concentrate on people who abuse the parking regulations rather than overstay their welcome by a couple of minutes or stray a couple of inches outside a parking space. At the moment, parking control is principally about raising revenue to pay for the service. We should return to a publicly funded system that operates in the public interest to punish people who park illegally and antisocially. East Herts District Council needs to get its priorities right and stop targetting the easy money by fining petty offenders who have committed nothing other than a technical offence. This serves the interest of no-one but the council.
Originally posted by Mr P
What if I don't want to pay increased council tax for traffic wardens who heavily patrol car parks? There would be better feeling toward them if they got off their collective a*ses, walked up the hills to the continuing problem areas and actually issued tickets where they were needed instead of lurking in shady/sheltered multi-storeys waiting for an easy ticket.
Reply ID 20513
We have the same problem in Ware. The parking attendants on a Saturday morning are hovering until 9am to catch people parking in Mill Close (off Priory Street) - these people are RESIDENTS but that makes no difference. I had a stand up row with a woman attendant who was so rude to me its no wonder that most of the shops have moved out of Ware
Reply ID 20517
Saw 2 on Port Vale today as I was walking into town. On Monday I saw 3 but they were all in town. There are loads of them!!!
Reply ID 21129
the parking situation in town is pathetic even if you pay over the odds to stay in the gascoyne way car park you arnt safe. me and my mum parked there put a ticket in our car and went off. when we came back a stupid traffic warden had put a ticket on our car saying that we hadnt displayed a pay and display ticket and sure enough our ticket was still there sitting on our dashboard perfectly visable. idiot just hadnt looked properly! what they need to do with these attendents is give them a bit more training make them policemen and send them out catching actual criminals or something like that.
Reply ID 21130
actually scratch that just put them all down lol
Reply ID 21131
quote:Yeah then they could catch the 'real' criminals - people doing 31mph in a 30mph zone!
Originally posted by gEMMA
what they need to do with these attendents is give them a bit more training make them policemen and send them out catching actual criminals or something like that.
Reply ID 21541
Do these traffic wardens/parking attendants/whatever you want to call them actually choose to do this job or are are they given it as punishment?[}:)] No way would I do a job where "joe public" hates what I am. Surely they cant enjoy doing what they do??[}:)]
Reply ID 22079
Anyone see the idiot who gave a ticket to the lorry driver in Belsize Park who's lorry had sunk into the road due to subsidence? The trouble is that these people are given bonuses for the amount of tickets they issue. It makes them turn into Pedants as exemplified by the traffic warden in Belsize Park. Her response was that the lorry driver could appeal. Where is Common sense and decency these days?
Reply ID 23206
Have any of you found out how Parking attendnants actually work? No, they don't get any bonus or commission. They are so closely monitored that they cannot give a ticket unless the offence is being committed, or not give a ticket if it is. They are not allowed to make a judgement as to whether a vehicle may be broken down or disabled in some other way, as a policeman might. They are not allowed this discretion in order to protect the public. Where they patrol, how long they stay in each area, is also strictly controlled. The whole job, every second of it, is on camera and their hand held modules. Traffic wardens do a job, a very unpleasant one, in which they are frequently abused and assaulted. They do it because they have to earn a living, just as many people work at something they don't enjoy for the same reason. Maybe we should get rid of them to stimulate even more posts complaining about parking and a lack of wardens....oh they're already busy enough, huh?
Reply ID 23220
quote:It's how some of them apply the 'powers' they do have and their behaviour that annoys me. For example, my wife had to park in Hertford twice in one day. In the morning she parked in Bircheley Green multi-storey and in the afternoon she parked in Gascoyne Way multi-storey. When she returned to her car in the afternoon she had a parking ticket for meter feeding. She had failed to remove the Bircherley Green ticket from the car. The tickets are clearly marked as from different car parks. To make matters worse she challenged the parking attendant and he said he was right to issue a parking ticket. He said it was my wifes fault for not removing the Bircherley Green ticket and that it was an offence to display more than one ticket. Basically he was either badly informed of the regulations, or he was trying to avoid having to explain to his managers why he had to cancel a ticket and to achieve this he was lying to my wife so that she would not challenge the ticket. This was dispicable. I have also challenged a parking attendant when I saw him hiding, waiting for people to park. No sooner had people parked illegaly and left their car then he nipped out and issued a ticket. Now, admittedly the drivers had parked illegaly. However, if they were genuinely interested in keeping traffic moving they wouldn't hide in bushes to issue as many tickets as possible. And what about those people who received tickets because their tyres touched the white lines of a parking bay? I accept that the attendants themselves may not be directly incentivised to issue tickets. However I believe the guidelines and directives they are given by their employers are designed to effect their behaviour so that they do. There are good, fair-minded parking attendants out there but it's a shame the behaviour of some spoils the reputation of them all.
Originally posted by shunt
Have any of you found out how Parking attendnants actually work? No, they don't get any bonus or commission. They are so closely monitored that they cannot give a ticket unless the offence is being committed, or not give a ticket if it is. They are not allowed to make a judgement as to whether a vehicle may be broken down or disabled in some other way, as a policeman might. They are not allowed this discretion in order to protect the public. Where they patrol, how long they stay in each area, is also strictly controlled. The whole job, every second of it, is on camera and their hand held modules. Traffic wardens do a job, a very unpleasant one, in which they are frequently abused and assaulted. They do it because they have to earn a living, just as many people work at something they don't enjoy for the same reason. Maybe we should get rid of them to stimulate even more posts complaining about parking....oh they're already busy enough, huh?
Reply ID 23223
I genuinuely love the fact that the trafic wardens are back. Sure there is the odd problem when someone is wrongly ticketed, but the majority of people complaining are in fact in the wrong. The mercury keeps reporting on tales of people who were only a few minutes late getting back! Tough! Buy a second hour beforehand or manage your time better. I agree we would be better off with pay on exit machines, but the fact is, we don't have them. Before the return of the traffic wardens, the pavements in Hertford had become a disgrace. They have made the town look a whole lot better.
Reply ID 23225
quote:They may have made the streets look a lot better, but unfortunately, they have made the streets a whole lot emptier. Can anyone remember how vibrant Hertford was when it didn't have Traffic Wardens for a year? .. I can't remember any incidents of grid-lock due to selfish parking during this time? .. can anyone else? ...
Originally posted by Dude
I genuinuely love the fact that the trafic wardens are back. Sure there is the odd problem when someone is wrongly ticketed, but the majority of people complaining are in fact in the wrong. The mercury keeps reporting on tales of people who were only a few minutes late getting back! Tough! Buy a second hour beforehand or manage your time better. I agree we would be better off with pay on exit machines, but the fact is, we don't have them. Before the return of the traffic wardens, the pavements in Hertford had become a disgrace. They have made the town look a whole lot better.
Reply ID 23227
quote:The pavements look better? But this is not within their jurisdiction? For example they can do nothing about a car dumped on the pavement. They can't touch the cars that clog up St Andrews Street opposite the Chinese takeaway. However, they can give a parking ticket to a car with one wheel slightly on the white line if a parking bay.
Originally posted by Dude
I genuinuely love the fact that the trafic wardens are back. Sure there is the odd problem when someone is wrongly ticketed, but the majority of people complaining are in fact in the wrong. The mercury keeps reporting on tales of people who were only a few minutes late getting back! Tough! Buy a second hour beforehand or manage your time better. I agree we would be better off with pay on exit machines, but the fact is, we don't have them. Before the return of the traffic wardens, the pavements in Hertford had become a disgrace. They have made the town look a whole lot better.
Reply ID 23228
quote:I lived in the town centre and I used to get stuck for anything upto 20 minutes, behind a bus (blocked by bad parking) at least once a week! It was a nightmare. How was the town "vibrant" with cars dumped all over the place? And what has changed? The evenings are still packed with people now, like they were then. The days are still quiet, like it was then. Do you think people have gone elsewhere because they can't park up on pavements in Hertford anymore? If so, where have they gone, because all the other towns have the same parking enforcement. Hertford hasn't been vibrant in the day for over 10 years.
Originally posted by azzzaquote:They may have made the streets look a lot better, but unfortunately, they have made the streets a whole lot emptier. Can anyone remember how vibrant Hertford was when it didn't have Traffic Wardens for a year? .. I can't remember any incidents of grid-lock due to selfish parking during this time? .. can anyone else? ...
Originally posted by Dude
I genuinuely love the fact that the trafic wardens are back. Sure there is the odd problem when someone is wrongly ticketed, but the majority of people complaining are in fact in the wrong. The mercury keeps reporting on tales of people who were only a few minutes late getting back! Tough! Buy a second hour beforehand or manage your time better. I agree we would be better off with pay on exit machines, but the fact is, we don't have them. Before the return of the traffic wardens, the pavements in Hertford had become a disgrace. They have made the town look a whole lot better.
Reply ID 23249
The pavements look better? But this is not within their jurisdiction? For example they can do nothing about a car dumped on the pavement. They can't touch the cars that clog up St Andrews Street opposite the Chinese takeaway. However, they can give a parking ticket to a car with one wheel slightly on the white line if a parking bay. [/quote] Exactly. As previously mentioned, if you're out of the bay, the attendant will be disiplined if he doesn't issue a ticket. The only excuse accepted is if the bay is too small for your vehicle to fit entirely within it, in which case you may appeal. As I said they apply the letter of the law and have no rights to interpret it, in the way a police officer has or the old style Traffic Wardens. "Meter feeding" fines do seem unfair, if the full amount has been paid and the mximum four hours has not been exceeded. I'm sure many attendants would agree, but they still have to action it. If you want to change the way it works, you have to change the laws from which these public servants receive their instructions, not give individuals a hard time. They are just doing a job.
Reply ID 23252
quote:I have a job to do as well. But I don't lie to people. The parking attendant lied to my wife. Either that or he was woefully inept. Perhaps both. Secondly they do have discretion. Everyone does. They are not automatons. If their manager is standing next to them monitoring their behaviour then I can understand them being worried about showing leniency if a car is 1 inch onto the white line. However, as it is unlikely that they are watched constantly by their managers I have to assume they make a conscious decision to punitively apply to the letter of the regulations.
Originally posted by shunt
The pavements look better? But this is not within their jurisdiction? For example they can do nothing about a car dumped on the pavement. They can't touch the cars that clog up St Andrews Street opposite the Chinese takeaway. However, they can give a parking ticket to a car with one wheel slightly on the white line if a parking bay. Exactly. As previously mentioned, if you're out of the bay, the attendant will be disiplined if he doesn't issue a ticket. The only excuse accepted is if the bay is too small for your vehicle to fit entirely within it, in which case you may appeal. As I said they apply the letter of the law and have no rights to interpret it, in the way a police officer has or the old style Traffic Wardens. "Meter feeding" fines do seem unfair, if the full amount has been paid and the mximum four hours has not been exceeded. I'm sure many attendants would agree, but they still have to action it. If you want to change the way it works, you have to change the laws from which these public servants receive their instructions, not give individuals a hard time. They are just doing a job.
Reply ID 23253
And how about the poor guy who would have returned to his 4x4 in St. Andrew Street car park to find that he had a ticket because one of his tyres had gone flat and it had spread onto the white line??? I saw the car being booked about four weeks ago whilst taking a short cut through the car park. And yes, I agree with Ewoowar. The parking attendants do hide, and hover in all sorts of places whilst awaiting their next victim.
Reply ID 23256
Well that, if it happened is a bit excessive. No they don't hide, except to avoid being verbally abused during their lunchbreak, but even if they did, what does it matter if you are legally parked? They have a predetermined route which they log to the minute as they walk it. That's what the modules are for and why they are linked to the camera system. They are supervised and watched in person too. I'm not particularly pro parking attendant as I've had my share of tickets too, including the meter feeding one in the same circumstances. I hapen to know they all question that one and the instruction is confirmed. As with any job, there are good and bad folk within it, it's just that in this topic they are being cursed for being omnipresent and in others, for being absent and in niether case is it their choice. These are just people who need a job badly enough to take the abuse, assaults and unpopularity. When we've got them we complain, when we haven't we complain about inconsiderate parking. All I'm saying is to complain to the attendant is futile.
Reply ID 23258
But their "Routes" don't take into account the places with parking problems, so the prats around Fleming Crescent can park on the dopuble yellow lines safe in the knowledge that a parking warden is unlikely to venture near. However if you overstay bt 1 minute in St Andrew's Street then the chances are you will get a ticket becuase all the routes seemto ensure that there is a warden covering the car park for most of the day. Parking Restrictions have 2 purposes. 1. To aid the safe movement of traffic by not obstructing highways. 2. To allow people to visit Hertford for short periods without all of the parking spaces being taken up all day by workers. Overstaying a ticket by a few minutes doesn't fall into this category, neither does having a flat tyre touching a white line, so why do the wardens seem intent on policing the letter of the rules to maximise fines and not actually bother about their raison d'etre
Reply ID 23259
quote:
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:The pavements look better? But this is not within their jurisdiction? For example they can do nothing about a car dumped on the pavement. They can't touch the cars that clog up St Andrews Street opposite the Chinese takeaway. However, they can give a parking ticket to a car with one wheel slightly on the white line if a parking bay.
Originally posted by Dude
I genuinuely love the fact that the trafic wardens are back. Sure there is the odd problem when someone is wrongly ticketed, but the majority of people complaining are in fact in the wrong. The mercury keeps reporting on tales of people who were only a few minutes late getting back! Tough! Buy a second hour beforehand or manage your time better. I agree we would be better off with pay on exit machines, but the fact is, we don't have them. Firstly, I have to say that I don't know what the Parking Attendants' full remit is; however, if a car is parked on a pavement where there is a yellow, (or double) yellow line, then that vehicle is parked in contravention of the restriction, as the parking regulations apply to the whole of the highway. As the pavement forms part of the highway, I don't know why the Parking Attendants cannot, (allegedly) isssue a Fixed Penalty Notice Before the return of the traffic wardens, the pavements in Hertford had become a disgrace. They have made the town look a whole lot better.
Reply ID 23260
quote:Wrong. Very wrong. They do hide. I have seen them (so not hiding very well then[:)] ) but they do hide. I challenged once who was hiding once.
Originally posted by shunt
No they don't hide, except to avoid being verbally abused during their lunchbreak, but even if they did, what does it matter if you are legally parked?
Reply ID 23261
The reason for one place getting more attention than another may be signage. Hetford has several unenforcible yellow lines where the plates are not legal. Why would you challenge a parking attendant, hiding or not?
Reply ID 23262
"But their "Routes" don't take into account the places with parking problems, so the prats around Fleming Crescent can park on the dopuble yellow lines safe in the knowledge that a parking warden is unlikely to venture near." quote Have you tried getting down Bullocks Lane and Pegs Lane when it is "school out"? Loads of yellow lines hidden by parked cars and not a TW or a PA in sight.
Reply ID 23274
(Frank Butcher voice) Wo wo wo winkles, everyone just 'alt a minute perleeease. If you've a gripe about non-painted yellow lines or motors obstructing non-painted yellow lines or ovver motors shipped on yellow-lined roads or ....Pat, Pat, help me Pat ... contact East Herts Council or the Highways department. Both are weeel 'elpful! Pat???
Reply ID 23286
Well, yes they are to a point, in that they will explain some of the points I've made and are unwilling to explain the logic of others. There are things which are not right about parking control and they are the one's to put your concerns to. Traffic Attendant is a fairly lowly job, which none of us want to do and it's wrong of us to direct our anger and frustration at someone who has no power to act, or for us expect insisive decisions from them. Remember; parking attendant is not traffic warden. The former's mandate to make personal judgements has purposely been restricted to stop us being able to influence them by the appalling bullying and hatred I've seen even within this topic. If you are returning faulty goods to a shop, being rude or intimidating to the check-out girl is not likely to produce the results you want. Anybody got it yet?
Reply ID 23290
quote:"appalling bullying and hatred "? Really?
Originally posted by shunt
Well, yes they are to a point, in that they will explain some of the points I've made and are unwilling to explain the logic of others. There are things which are not right about parking control and they are the one's to put your concerns to. Traffic Attendant is a fairly lowly job, which none of us want to do and it's wrong of us to direct our anger and frustration at someone who has no power to act, or for us expect insisive decisions from them. Remember; parking attendant is not traffic warden. The former's mandate to make personal judgements has purposely been restricted to stop us being able to influence them by the appalling bullying and hatred I've seen even within this topic. If you are returning faulty goods to a shop, being rude or intimidating to the check-out girl is not likely to produce the results you want. Anybody got it yet?
Reply ID 23295
My point being that we all shoot the messenger, whether on the street, in our conversations, or attitudes and yes, it is possible to bully remotely without actually being face to face by the way we, perhaps inadvertently direct attitudes. Parking Attendant should not be a hated job, but it is and always has been, because of just that. We employ those who employ them. Did the attendant lie to your wife? Maybe he did. I thought so when I got a ticket for "meter feeding", but I wrote to the council and was informed by letter that the reply I got on the street was exactly what the man was told to say by his superiors and confirmed as policy. It still didn't make sense, but it wasn't the attendant's fault. I hate the way parking works in Hertford, but I recognise to change it, we have to challenge the instructions given to attendants, not the attendants themselves.
Reply ID 23297
I think everyone disagrees with the silly tickets we are talking about (flat tyres, white lines etc), but does anyone actually believe that these aren't a tiny minorty of the overall tickets handed out? Being "a few minutes over" isn't this minorty. Thats simply abuse or bad planning. On one hand, we get people saying they were only a bit late because they got "caught" in the town. One the other hand we get people saying the parking is killing the town. So if the town is dying, where exactly are these late people geting "caught"? The whole parking thing makes me laugh, a bit like the speed cameras. There are simple rules to follow, yet so many people get up in arms about it, even when they are breaking the rules.
Reply ID 23300
Nice one, Dude. (now I sound like surf bum!) The silly stuff does annoy. I've fumed with rage myself at a seemingly stupid ticket, but investigation and a return to sanity has always made a fool of me for doing so.
Reply ID 23416
[quote]Originally posted by Dude Being "a few minutes over" isn't this minorty. Thats simply abuse or bad planning. On one hand, we get people saying they were only a bit late because they got "caught" in the town. One the other hand we get people saying the parking is killing the town. So if the town is dying, where exactly are these late people geting "caught"? In the Post Office (sorry of topic)[:I]
Reply ID 23418
In the Banks also [V]
Reply ID 23420
So, your banks and Post Offices take over one hour to serve you? Mine don't. Who on earth do you bank with? Sorry folks, I've got tickets because I've failed to plan enough time for a queue at the end of a parking period too, but it isn't anybody else's fault. If I'm trying to fit too many tasks into a twenty-minute street parking session, that also is down to me because the one hour option is available for a few pence.
Reply ID 23422
I've waited in Barclays for 20 minutes some days. I work in town so it doesn't really bother me as it's time out of the office [:p] but if I was in a 30 minute space I'm sure I'd be fuming![:o)]
Reply ID 23424
A twenty minute wait is unreasonable, but something you have obvously calculated it as a possibility. Presumably someone choosing a 30 minute zone has the same mental powers. Having said that, one should be able to bank within 30 minutes and if you can't, I suggest it is something to take up with the bank rather than the man who tickets the car. I'm so disorganised, I risk getting a ticket in a short wait zone as I try to pack too much into the time, or just nip into one shop too many!
Reply ID 23425
I think it's a bit unreasonable to have to make all these calculations before you do something like parking. After all, the provision of car parking is a public service. It's unreasonable to have to make judgements about the lengths of queues in post offices etc. Instead of running sting operations, the council should be providing this service for their CUSTOMERS, and tailoring the service so that it suits THE CUSTOMERS needs, not THE COUNCIL'S.
Reply ID 23426
I agree Steve. I've given up shopping in Hertford because with a young baby I can never calculate exactly how long i'm going to be (often need to stop for feeds, nappy changes etc.) Yes, maybe I should always walk, but if i'm needing to nip into the bank for example on my way to somewhere else, it's not practical to walk into town, walk back and then go off. sometimes even locals need to park. I don't see the point in paying when I can go elsewhere and park for free. And i've lost count of the times I've gone into a car park and then not had the right change. Disorganised maybe, but aren't we all. And what impression is it giving to out of towners who come to Hertford for the day, maybe on their way from/to somewhere? Parking is killing hertford slowly but surely...
Reply ID 23427
I agree, but as I understand it, the council claims budget restrictions as the reason for not introducing (or more accurately, re-introducing) pay on exit parking, which I think we all agree would solve the problem. These machines are expensive to install, but not being aware of the cost of the old man in a booth type of operation, balanced by savings in the cost of maintaining current machines etc. it's hard to make a call. Presumably, needing less wardens would make that contract cheaper too, but also reduce revenue from tickets. Nothing solves the excessive competition for the few 30 minute zones as there is a finite amount of room in our old town streets. It's very complicated, but seems so simple at first glance!
Reply ID 23429
Shunt - you are so right. As some writer wrote at some time - 'you've been reading my mail'. It has been admitted that the present system relies on fines. If everyone exercised immaculate time management there would be no income from fines at all; but human frailties being what they are ... As a small aside I remember the men in the booth in Bircherley Green often winning Hertford's Cheery Trader Award. And East Herts are not going to build any more car parks and Hertford can not really expand owing to being surrounded by green fields. The costings are hidden within various Council reports and time and time again East Herts state that Pay on Exit is uneconomical. Basically because of the huge capital cost and there is little or no income from fines. And as I said somewhere else, this is disputed by one of the major installers of car parking systems who, just by chance, installed the one at Bircherley Green. The lessons learned in Three Rivers and the consultation document from Pell Frischman should have alerted East Herts to the fact that over even a small period the law of diminshing returns kicks in. In Shrewsbury someone wrote: 'The trouble with parking is that it is a subject on which everyone is an expert, and a service which has to be paid for but from which no pleasure is derived. And the perception changes depending on whether you are a pedestrian, a driver or a bus passenger. It is something which you can get free of charge, but it can also be expensive. It is often illegal, but more often is not. It is always available when you don’t want it, but scarce and expensive when you do, and is sometimes seen as a service where someone is trying to catch you out.' I think that sums it up. Now, back to the DIY.
Reply ID 23430
What annoys me is that when I over-estimate I cannot get a refund for the time I haven't used.
Reply ID 23436
Very true, but you can over-estimate many, many times for the cost of one under-estimate. Hobson's choice. Nobody likes it, but unless somebody has a brainwave that nobody else in the entire country has thought of yet, we're kinda stuck with this.
Reply ID 23437
quote:1)Pay on exit. 2)Annual tickets.
Originally posted by shunt
Very true, but you can over-estimate many, many times for the cost of one under-estimate. Hobson's choice. Nobody likes it, but unless somebody has a brainwave that nobody else in the entire country has thought of yet, we're kinda stuck with this.
Reply ID 23439
quote:Absolutely right - East Herts Council is elected to serve the interests of the residents of East Herts, not to create profit for Central Parking Systems. They are our Council and they should be accountable to us, we should not be penalised on the whim of whichever councillor is in charge of parking this week.
Originally posted by Steve
I think it's a bit unreasonable to have to make all these calculations before you do something like parking. After all, the provision of car parking is a public service. It's unreasonable to have to make judgements about the lengths of queues in post offices etc. Instead of running sting operations, the council should be providing this service for their CUSTOMERS, and tailoring the service so that it suits THE CUSTOMERS needs, not THE COUNCIL'S.
Reply ID 23440
...but how do we pay for it and how much are we prepared to pay for it? Yes, we've all agreed on pay on exit, way back in the topic. That is not the issue. Some are complaining about cost now, pay on exit would be even more costly. Stevenage is 80p minimum and climbs to £1.20 in the time it takes to visit one shop. Parking control is expensive. Are we prepared to pay extra?
Reply ID 23453
Here in Ware the parking is pay and display, but we don't seem to have the same level of enforcement that Hertford has and the prices are much lower. Not sure why this should be but a number of reasons sping to mind: Ware uses a different company to provide the parking attendants; The cost of parking provision is much lower in Ware; Parking in Ware is more heavily subsidized. If it's any of these reasons why can't Hertford change to the same system?
Reply ID 23454
quote:I don't think so. "Ware" doesn't use a company at all, it's EHDC and they have a contract with Central Parking System UK Ltd that covers the whole district.
Originally posted by ian.ball
Ware uses a different company to provide the parking attendants
Reply ID 23465
Odd then that the wardens seem to be less "enthusiastic" about issuing tickets unless Ware residents complain less - which I find hard to beleive, only the one thread this year [:)]
Reply ID 23481
quote:True. The post office is a good example of queue hell. I've done it many times. But if I'm going to the post office or bank, I never use a 30 minute space, because I would probably cut it too fine. If someone chooses to risk it, they only have themselves to blame, not the traffic warden.
Originally posted by Sherlock
[quote]Originally posted by Dude Being "a few minutes over" isn't this minorty. Thats simply abuse or bad planning. On one hand, we get people saying they were only a bit late because they got "caught" in the town. One the other hand we get people saying the parking is killing the town. So if the town is dying, where exactly are these late people geting "caught"? In the Post Office (sorry of topic)[:I]
Reply ID 23482
quote:Totally agree, but until the council do, its not the traffic wardens fault, its the person who pays for an hour, rather than two, then complains to the Mercury because they "were only a few minutes late".
Originally posted by Steve
I think it's a bit unreasonable to have to make all these calculations before you do something like parking. After all, the provision of car parking is a public service. It's unreasonable to have to make judgements about the lengths of queues in post offices etc. Instead of running sting operations, the council should be providing this service for their CUSTOMERS, and tailoring the service so that it suits THE CUSTOMERS needs, not THE COUNCIL'S.
Reply ID 23487
But why should I have to pay for 2 hours parking, just in case I am slightly over 1 hour, when the majority of times I will be less than 1 hour.
Reply ID 23503
Because that's the current system and it costs £30 to ignore it.
Reply ID 23508
quote:It doesn't mean that it isn't flawed.
Originally posted by shunt
Because that's the current system and it costs £30 to ignore it.
Reply ID 23511
No it doesn't. It's not easy to complain about something eloquently unless one knows all the costs and complications involved. Does any of us have that knowledge or expertise? If not, who does, can we find it out and does anyone have time to process the information and make sense of it?
Reply ID 23512
quote:This was the point of asking Cllr Alexander and Andrew Pulham to a Partnership Board meeting because we couldn't make an informed decision without knowledge of revenue and capital costs as well as income from fees/fines. After that meeting we are still no further in gaining any precise knowledge. I think somewhere I have mentioned that we have asked for figures for a Pay on Exit system in Hertford. If and when these become available I will try and put them in public domain.
No it doesn't. It's not easy to complain about something eloquently unless one knows all the costs and complications involved. Does any of us have that knowledge or expertise? If not, who does, can we find it out and does anyone have time to process the information and make sense of it?
Reply ID 23518
Do we have too many wardens? Surely the threat of being caught should be enough a deterrent to people breaking the rules. Random spot checks ought to be sufficient. Before the new wardens the car parks were working just fine - but they weren't patrolled constantly by wardens. The occasional visit to a problem parking site like Fleming Crescent would probably be enough to make the prats think twice before parking all day on the double yellow lines.
Reply ID 23524
quote:I'm sure that when the Parking Attendants took over that it weas reported that there were three times as many of them as the former Parking Wardens.
Originally posted by jez_p
Do we have too many wardens? Surely the threat of being caught should be enough a deterrent to people breaking the rules. Random spot checks ought to be sufficient. Before the new wardens the car parks were working just fine - but they weren't patrolled constantly by wardens. The occasional visit to a problem parking site like Fleming Crescent would probably be enough to make the prats think twice before parking all day on the double yellow lines.
Reply ID 23526
Ah, but traffic control is a business now, like trains, busses, water and your gas supplier, so there will be no more attendants than needed to match levels of offence or they'd go bust. Thats the nature of market driven decision making. Ho hum......
Reply ID 23537
quote:The term "slightly over" is exactly why they have to stick to the rules. It means different things to different people.
Originally posted by jez_p
But why should I have to pay for 2 hours parking, just in case I am slightly over 1 hour, when the majority of times I will be less than 1 hour.
Reply ID 23543
Ware and Stevenage are not only patrolled by the same company, but the same team of attendants. Since niether town is bleating like we are, maybe it's not the parking attendant's attitudes we should be questioning.
Reply ID 23544
quote:Very true - it's a question of "Strict Liability" - it's the same thing as speeding, if the limit is 30 mph then why should you expect to get away with doing 31mph? You either have a limit and stick to it or you decide to allow a set amount of flexibilty. BUT if you allow a set amount of flexibility then why didn't you set the fixed limit to that point in the first place?
Originally posted by Dude
[quote]Originally posted by jez_p
But why should I have to pay for 2 hours parking, just in case I am slightly over 1 hour, when the majority of times I will be less than 1 hour. The term "slightly over" is exactly why they have to stick to the rules. It means different things to different people.
Reply ID 23545
quote:A mum that I talked to at my son's school in Ware says that the attendants she's talked to are unwilling to walk out of the town centre to come and sort out parking near the school gate. And £53K has just been spent on a rising bollard to stop parking in Tudor Square where the market lives.it's five seconds from the High St! So some moans in Ware!
Originally posted by shunt
Ware and Stevenage are not only patrolled by the same company, but the same team of attendants. Since niether town is bleating like we are, maybe it's not the parking attendant's attitudes we should be questioning.
Reply ID 23546
quote:This is exactly what I have been doing[^][:(!][^]
Originally posted by shunt
Ware and Stevenage are not only patrolled by the same company, but the same team of attendants. Since niether town is bleating like we are, maybe it's not the parking attendant's attitudes we should be questioning.
Reply ID 23548
Actually the residents of Ware are grumbling too. 3 Topics all this Year about Parking and Wardens http://www.wareonline.co.uk/haveyoursay/topic.php?id=1260 http://www.wareonline.co.uk/haveyoursay/topic.php?id=1260 http://www.wareonline.co.uk/haveyoursay/topic.php?id=1260 Plus the Residents of Ware Moaning about Wardens in Hertford http://www.wareonline.co.uk/haveyoursay/topic.php?id=1260
Reply ID 23550
quote:Actually that's only one topic about parking wardens and that only has a few replies. The other two posts are about a **lack** of parking wardens!!!!! Perhaps it's because parking in Ware is so much cheaper? I don't know why, but it does seem very reasonable compared to Hertford and if I had to pay Hertford prices regularly I'd expect more for my money!
Originally posted by jez_p
Actually the residents of Ware are grumbling too. 3 Topics all this Year about Parking and Wardens http://www.wareonline.co.uk/haveyoursay/topic.php?id=1260 http://www.wareonline.co.uk/haveyoursay/topic.php?id=1260 http://www.wareonline.co.uk/haveyoursay/topic.php?id=1260 Plus the Residents of Ware Moaning about Wardens in Hertford http://www.wareonline.co.uk/haveyoursay/topic.php?id=1260
Reply ID 23555
You don't have to go far from Hertford Town Centre to find the same lack of Parking Wardens.
Reply ID 23556
quote:I'd imagine parking in Ware is cheaper as there are fewer reasons to go to Ware and so less demand for parking. I think Ware's great, but it doesn't have the range of shops. As a smaller town, it's also easier to park in the streets beyond the main town centre and walk down, so higher parking charges would just encourage more people to do that. It's not so easy in Hertford. Then, if you go further down the scale still, parking is free in Buntingford car park.
Originally posted by ian.ball Perhaps it's because parking in Ware is so much cheaper? I don't know why, but it does seem very reasonable compared to Hertford and if I had to pay Hertford prices regularly I'd expect more for my money!
Reply ID 23558
Very true, but it does seem a *huge* leap nevertheless!
Reply ID 23559
I guess it's what the market will bear - I had to nip into Hertford late Saturday afternoon and the bottom level of Gascoyne Way and St Andrew's car parks were both practically full.