Topic ID 1062
I thought restaurants started this practice in the city so that expenses claims could go through that included the tip. More recently, the practice has started to increase, to ensure that cheapskate British tippers do pay a tip. Sometimes this backfires because we "object in principle" and ask for it to be removed. The result can be that the serving staff end up with less than they would have done otherwise. Personally, I like to tip well if the service is good and kick up a fuss if it is not. Do our esteemed restauranteurs and critics have views?
Reply ID 12000
Some restaurant (chain?) owners have stated that they can include the service charge in the declared wages, thus they can pay below minimum wage, but the service charge brings the amount above that to get round the law. This was mentioned when talking about credit card tips, but I would have thought it would be even more associated with added service charges. I am pretty sure that this is not ubiquitous and I would be surprised if (m)any of the restaurants mentioned on this forum practised this - esp. as I would find that staff that poorly paid would be difficult to motivate. One problem with the practise (IME) is that it tends to mean that tips rarely rise above the added 10%, when they may well have been 15%+.
Reply ID 12007
I never pay the tip on my credit card, and always leave cash as I'm not convinced it ever reaches the waiting staff when it goes through on a card. I've only once taken the service charge off a bill- caused a huge row. I objected in principal as although food was lovely we waited over 2 hours for our meal (by which time I was quite tipsy so was feeling particularly confident). This was a restaurant in st albans though.
Reply ID 12017
but why should the waiters be the only ones that get the tip? #what about kitchen staff, porters, dish washers. As everyone is aware the hillside do charge 10% service which is absolutely 100% optional. We probably pay our staff more by the hour than most others in hertford, and i believe we offer a good service as well as a pretty decent product. I would say that, although i dont entireley agree to the full, but, most restaurants with a quality product charge service, i do not think its a big deal, but i have experienced a 12 1/2 5 service charge at Eds Diner. Yes EDs Diner the hotdog place with paper napkins and plastic spoons. Now that is a complete farce.
Reply ID 12021
justin, what were you doing in ed's diner??? my opinion of you has gone down!!
Reply ID 12023
I was asked in Pizza express a couple of months ago if I wante dto add a tip to the card, when they brought round the new chip and pin payment doh dah. Oddly I declined, and stuffed the tenner back in my pocket they were going to get. Cheeky ****ers
Reply ID 12024
Victor, they were probably only offering to explain the process of adding a tip via the machine. Clumsy offer of assistance came across as arrogant assumption and the "object on principle" principle came in.
Reply ID 12026
I totally understand what they were trying to do. I would have prefered to see a bill with the service charged added than to be asked would you like to give me a tip (in a round about way) Yes, I'll give you a tip, don't ask for one!
Reply ID 12029
I find the Pizza Express approach uncomfortable. They give you the C&P pin pad and loiter while you decide whether or not to add service. I prefer to leave a tip discretely.
Reply ID 12034
I think they find it uncomfortable as well.
Reply ID 12038
If I leave a tip at Pizza Express I always leave a cash tip on the table. I never leave a tip on the card.
Reply ID 12042
I have to say I am amazed at Justin going to an Ed's!! I thought it was only us heathens that had tried such places [;)][:D][:D]
Reply ID 12043
The worst practise, and one to keep a close watch out for, is adding the tip to the bill and then leaving the total line on the credit card slip blank. In my youth I paid double tips a few times before i realised. This happened in a few restaurants that should know better too. Also watch out for the cover charge at the top of the bill. Another way of screwing a few pounds out of the unsuspecting punter.
Reply ID 12046
quote:Well hopefully they don't. When I worked in a restaurant the tips were pooled and evenly distributed. This does require some honesty in the waiting staff, of course. No system is perfect. In some countries they don't like tipping (in Switzerland for example the only tipping consists of a very optional rounding up of the amount of the bill - e.g. if it's CHF24.50 then it would be considered fine to pay CHF25 and leave it at that) and the "service charge" is rolled into the prices.
but why should the waiters be the only ones that get the tip?
Reply ID 12050
I tip @10% if I think the service has been good, I have once refused to pay a service charge (a place in Enfield) even though they said charge was optional, the manager was not best pleased. To me the charge should go to the person serving you, if their attitude is right they can making the eating 'experience' far more enjoyable. The chef , kitchen staff earn their money by producing food you wish to eat more of ie you go back again
Reply ID 12052
quote:But isn't that their job? [:)]
Originally posted by wingnut
To me the charge should go to the person serving you, if their attitude is right they can making the eating 'experience' far more enjoyable.
Reply ID 12054
I dont think a candidate has every tipped me for finding them a job!
Reply ID 12055
Not even a bottle of pop?
Reply ID 12059
can you find me a job............preferably with lots of money and I will buy you a pint! [:D]
Reply ID 12061
A mate of mine reckons that tips exist to prevent unwanted additions or attentions to the food. Not sure how that applies to those of us who don't work in the restaurant trade and have received "tips" (of a sort). Of course one of the big influencers on tips is the US where they are often needed to bring wages up to a reasonable level. They can make what initially seemed a reasonable meal less so (by making tips an after-meal calculation people may not realise how much they will eventually cost), as they (can) add 25% to the bill (remember that if checking prices on the menu and you're on a budget). That's some people much prefer the "pay higher wages and charge more" school of thought where it's a lot easier to know in advance what you're paying. Obviously that's less of an issue if you're paying 10%.
Reply ID 12062
I read an article recently about the Brits being very stingy when it comes to tipping and why we should offer more. It comes down to waiting staff being poorly paid - generally around the minimum wage. The argument is that most countries where tipping is the norm would consider 10% a minimum amount i.e. just for standing up and bringing the food. 15% would be for good service and more than that for excellent service. If you're caught up in the detail of working out 12.5% to the penny, you're probably analysing it too much. (I think the theory was to do with master/servant relationships in British society. A bit too deep but the sentiment sounded right to me.) Not quite sure about the rest of the staff. If it's all done with cash, it could all be pooled and shared out evenly at the end, if that's normal practice. After all, we probably adjust our tip down if the food was poor, even if the service was good. It's the whole eating experience, as was said.
Reply ID 12063
I believe the waiting staff at Pizza Express keep the tips.
Reply ID 12064
It used to be that all tips went to the "tronc master" to share fairly amongst the staff. Then the taxman decided it was taxable and the money had to be accounted for. The tronc master often used to handle this but in large restaurants/hotels the administration of this became centralised along with the wages. I once waited tables in a very posh boutique hotel and got some fantastic tips, but i wasn't allowed to keep them as the management said the tips paid the chamber maid's wages and without them they couldn't pay her. Hardly an incentive to give good service - especially as the chamber maid was a cow. The worse thing was that the customers thought that I was getting the money and I wasn't allowed to tell them the truth even if they asked. Needless to say, I walked out after 6 weeks.
Reply ID 12071
when i had no money i went to eds when shopping in brent x. was absolutely shocked to seeservice on the bill. When you go to a restaurant , do u go because the service is good? , but the food is crap, and the maid who presses the napkins cant iron, the guy who cleans the floor cant work a mop, no! You go somewhere for the whole package, of courese to me the food is most important of all, but you go for the whole package, so unless wages justify, service charge should be split throughout the workforce at the end of week.in my opinion.
Reply ID 12073
We do not add service charge, nor would we even consider asking for it. OK, we run a pub, but we still cook and serve meals. We don't expect tips, although one or two have been left on the odd occasion BUT all money left is always been put into the Isabel Hospice collecting box on the bar. There are a lot of people out there that need a couple of pounds more than we do, and those £1's add up to a hell of a lot to them.
Reply ID 12079
Aren't there rules about tips. If you leave a cash tip it goes straight to the waiter/waitress If it is a service charge or an addition to the credit card then it goes into the central accounts and can be used to pay the basic minimum wages of the staff
Reply ID 12083
quote:Wish i was tipped for my job. I would say i am as low paid as a waiting on staff. I went into the job knowing the wages.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
I dont think a candidate has every tipped me for finding them a job!
Reply ID 12099
quote:I work for a US company and we often have US staff visiting. They always insist on tipping because most of them worked as waiters while at college or have children doing that now.
Originally posted by skanky
A mate of mine reckons that tips exist to prevent unwanted additions or attentions to the food. Not sure how that applies to those of us who don't work in the restaurant trade and have received "tips" (of a sort). Of course one of the big influencers on tips is the US where they are often needed to bring wages up to a reasonable level. They can make what initially seemed a reasonable meal less so (by making tips an after-meal calculation people may not realise how much they will eventually cost), as they (can) add 25% to the bill (remember that if checking prices on the menu and you're on a budget). That's some people much prefer the "pay higher wages and charge more" school of thought where it's a lot easier to know in advance what you're paying. Obviously that's less of an issue if you're paying 10%.
Reply ID 12562
I think the whole service charge issue is a con. Why not just charge 10% more on the meal and then pay the staff 10% more? Adding a small print service charge is simply a stealth charge. I will avoid any place that adds a service charge out of principle. I do however, give tips for good service.
Reply ID 12564
quote:But what if they added 10% to the bill..................would you then add a tip as well?
Originally posted by Dude
I think the whole service charge issue is a con. Why not just charge 10% more on the meal and then pay the staff 10% more? Adding a small print service charge is simply a stealth charge. I will avoid any place that adds a service charge out of principle. I do however, give tips for good service.
Reply ID 12568
quote:Once again, the service charge is optional, it says so on the bill. You do not have to pay it if you do not want to. If they all started upping the prices by 10% and subsequently the staff wages, it would not longer be an optional service charge. As a matter of fact, legally, you do not have to pay the total of a bill if you do not feel that food served reflected the price charged.
Originally posted by Dude
I think the whole service charge issue is a con. Why not just charge 10% more on the meal and then pay the staff 10% more? Adding a small print service charge is simply a stealth charge. I will avoid any place that adds a service charge out of principle. I do however, give tips for good service.
Reply ID 12570
quote:So really, the prices on the menu are only an invitation to tender terms to the contract. And if the meal and service are much better than expected, the restaurant has every right to demand more than the price on the menu. Which comes back to Justin's argument that the "service charge" goes to everyone involved. Although it also backs up the argument that it should not automatically be added to the bill but is a matter for the customer to decide. From a business point of view, I'd expect to pay the cost of the raw materials, the labour costs, the element of fixed costs that the proprietor has to pass on plus the element of profit that they think they can get away with. In the restaurant trade, the custom is for the customer to reward the waiting staff for good service with a cash tip. For some reason, that is changing and I think it might be the waiting staff that are losing out.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrewquote:Once again, the service charge is optional, it says so on the bill. You do not have to pay it if you do not want to. If they all started upping the prices by 10% and subsequently the staff wages, it would not longer be an optional service charge. As a matter of fact, legally, you do not have to pay the total of a bill if you do not feel that food served reflected the price charged.
Originally posted by Dude
I think the whole service charge issue is a con. Why not just charge 10% more on the meal and then pay the staff 10% more? Adding a small print service charge is simply a stealth charge. I will avoid any place that adds a service charge out of principle. I do however, give tips for good service.
Reply ID 12601
I think it's wrong that the service charge goes to everyone in a restaurant. It is the waiter/waitress that serves you, so they should get the service chrage. Agreed, there is a whole team that goes in to preparing, cooking, presentation etc, but they are paid accordingly, where wait staff generally get little more than minimum wage and it's normally them that have to bare the brunt of any complaints, not the kitchen staff that cause them.
Reply ID 12840
you normally find that if there are any problems with slow/bad food, the waiter/waitress suffers as the customer doesn't leave tip, even though this has nothing to do with the service. also, you should only leave cash tips as all credit card tips are taxed now, and won't necessarily go to your server. p