Topic ID 6010
Regret to announce the imminent demise of the Black Horse. Greede King have opted to sell for residential purposes despite having a better offer on the table to keep the place going. Reminds me of the Hillside. Appears some firms are more interested in taking the supply out of the industry than giving someone else a chance to run their failures.
Reply ID 81499
quote:[V]
Originally posted by Mack E. Avelly
Regret to announce the imminent demise of the Black Horse. Greede King have opted to sell for residential purposes despite having a better offer on the table to keep the place going. Reminds me of the Hillside. Appears some firms are more interested in taking the supply out of the industry than giving someone else a chance to run their failures.
Reply ID 81500
Do you know how imminent the closure is? How sad, one of only 2 Hertford Pubs (that I know of)with a beer garden to speak of, coincidentally I was planning a beer with some boys from the rugby club tomorrow evening and had suggested the BH because of the garden and Green King beer.
Reply ID 81501
It is a shame to see a pub close down but all the times we visited it was deserted so I can only imagine it's been a sinking ship
Reply ID 81503
and one of the only pubs which allow dogs in!
Reply ID 81504
Its not been the same since Brian and Val left! I used to be a regular, played for the rugby team for a number of years and have visited the pub on Christmas day for many years to exchange presents with friends. Its no surprise but it will be sad to see it close, as firedup said earlier it tends to be deserted during the week.
Reply ID 81505
Does anyone know when?
Reply ID 81510
Whilst, yes, it is sad to hear of an old favourite closing down, the real issue here, IMHO, is the disgraceful belligerence that Greene King has shown in not allowing an independent landlord the opportunity to succeed. Shame on them.
Reply ID 81517
Am I right in thinking that, on the grounds that this has historically been a community resource, when the planning for change of use is submitted you'll all be objecting? Oh no, that's right, all those who objected to another Children's nursery/Vet's surgery amounted to 2 people who could be a***d to e mail Sad to say that in this life you get what you deserve
Reply ID 81520
That's a fair enough comment although one would think that the rubber stamp committee are aware of this anyway. You also forget that the RFU ought to pull their socks up here, after all it has the only "RFU Affiliated Pub Team" in the country. If that's not worth giving the application a second thought, then we may as well let the Salisbury be turned into flats the week after.
Reply ID 81521
The parrot, Muggins, Humphrey the sheep, the pregnancy bench, the Abbot club, BHRFC, the cricket club, the seafood stall, "Crunchy slept here", welly wanging, "Dumping stopped, residents claim victory", Jefferson Airplane on the jukebox, Biter's van, Bluebottle in a gorilla suit, Lourding Club de France, etc etc etc. Aaahhhh, those were the days.
Reply ID 81522
Sorry Mack, your post crossed with my rather flippant one. You've got a really good point about the RFU. As a founder member of the BHRFC I have an interest, and, somewhere I may have the original correspondence with the RFU. If I can do anything .....
Reply ID 81524
No problem CSP. For those who are after timescales, the deed was done around the 10th May, so I'd expect the completion to be no later than the end of the month given that the proof of funding was apparently quite robust. Whether change of use is deemed a pre-requisite or the purchaser is confident that the authorities will roll over, I know not.
Reply ID 81526
Mr Batty says "if there is a legitimate business that wishes to continue the existing use, then it will be very difficult to obtain residential consent. Any interested party should make their intentions to run the BH as a pub clear to the planning authorities."
Reply ID 81550
Im looking forward to celebrating my wedding there on July 23rd [:D]
Reply ID 81566
This news is very sad to hear. Has the planning permission for residential use been applied for yet? If so how would one go about objecting, hopefully save it going the same way as the reindeer?
Reply ID 81567
quote:No
Originally posted by Dolly268
Has the planning permission for residential use been applied for yet?
Reply ID 81628
Well Mack E Avelly it seems you were wrong about The Black Horse as it is struggling on and has recently been adorned with new hanging baskets, I would seriously question your information source, besides which why the big Lament ? The glory days of The Black Horse were a whole generation ago and are long gone. Countless new clubs and watering holes have opened in Hertford. In years to come people will look back with fond memories of the Sugar Hut and The Ram. There are plenty of pubs for old People to play dominos in and drink stout ; The Tavern, The White Horse, Salisbury. Times have changed and anyway I think you are all a bit past it now .
quote:
Originally posted by Mack E. Avelly
Regret to announce the imminent demise of the Black Horse. Greede King have opted to sell for residential purposes despite having a better offer on the table to keep the place going. Reminds me of the Hillside. Appears some firms are more interested in taking the supply out of the industry than giving someone else a chance to run their failures.
Reply ID 81629
quote:Fond memories of the Sugar Hut? Are you sure you don't mean mammaries?
Originally posted by radarkit
Well Mack E Avelly it seems you were wrong about The Black Horse as it is struggling on and has recently been adorned with new hanging baskets, I would seriously question your information source, besides which why the big Lament ? The glory days of The Black Horse were a whole generation ago and are long gone. Countless new clubs and watering holes have opened in Hertford. In years to come people will look back with fond memories of the Sugar Hut and The Ram. There are plenty of pubs for old People to play dominos in and drink stout ; The Tavern, The White Horse, Salisbury. Times have changed and anyway I think you are all a bit past it now .
Reply ID 81630
quote:Some people might welcome a new poster to the forum, but given the tone of your post I suspect that's unlikely in your case.
Originally posted by radarkit
Well Mack E Avelly it seems you were wrong about The Black Horse as it is struggling on and has recently been adorned with new hanging baskets, I would seriously question your information source, besides which why the big Lament ? The glory days of The Black Horse were a whole generation ago and are long gone. Countless new clubs and watering holes have opened in Hertford. In years to come people will look back with fond memories of the Sugar Hut and The Ram. There are plenty of pubs for old People to play dominos in and drink stout ; The Tavern, The White Horse, Salisbury. Times have changed and anyway I think you are all a bit past it now .quote:
Originally posted by Mack E. Avelly
Regret to announce the imminent demise of the Black Horse. Greede King have opted to sell for residential purposes despite having a better offer on the table to keep the place going. Reminds me of the Hillside. Appears some firms are more interested in taking the supply out of the industry than giving someone else a chance to run their failures.
Reply ID 81632
quote:I agree, blatant flaming. It smells of Rgs Rick to me.
Originally posted by Stevequote:Some people might welcome a new poster to the forum, but given the tone of your post I suspect that's unlikely in your case.
Originally posted by radarkit
Well Mack E Avelly it seems you were wrong about The Black Horse as it is struggling on and has recently been adorned with new hanging baskets, I would seriously question your information source, besides which why the big Lament ? The glory days of The Black Horse were a whole generation ago and are long gone. Countless new clubs and watering holes have opened in Hertford. In years to come people will look back with fond memories of the Sugar Hut and The Ram. There are plenty of pubs for old People to play dominos in and drink stout ; The Tavern, The White Horse, Salisbury. Times have changed and anyway I think you are all a bit past it now .quote:
Originally posted by Mack E. Avelly
Regret to announce the imminent demise of the Black Horse. Greede King have opted to sell for residential purposes despite having a better offer on the table to keep the place going. Reminds me of the Hillside. Appears some firms are more interested in taking the supply out of the industry than giving someone else a chance to run their failures.
Reply ID 81634
I thought forums were about lively debate and challenging of cosy fireside slipper views
Reply ID 81635
quote:They are about discussion. However, you appear to want to provoke. By "lively debate" do you mean argument? And what on earth are "cosy fireside slipper views"?
Originally posted by radarkit
I thought forums were about lively debate and challenging of cosy fireside slipper views
quote:The appearance of hanging baskets hardly gives an indication as to the future of a pub. I'm guessing that this is the pub's contribution to Hertford In Bloom. It's certainly no guarantee that the pub will not close in the coming months. If you have any concrete information about the future of the pub it would be great if you could share it.
Originally posted by radarkit
Well Mack E Avelly it seems you were wrong about The Black Horse as it is struggling on and has recently been adorned with new hanging baskets
quote:I think the closure of any local business is cause for disappointment.
Originally posted by radarkit
... besides which why the big Lament ?
quote:Who are these old people you mention? And what have they got to do with this discussion? Or dominoes and stout come to that? Why bring this up?
Originally posted by radarkit
There are plenty of pubs for old People to play dominos in and drink stout
quote:Who are "you all" and how are they "past it now"? Why make such a statement in relation to this discussion? How is it relevant? Registering with a forum and opening with antagonistic remarks does suggest you want to stir things up for whatever reason.
Originally posted by radarkit
I think you are all a bit past it now .
Reply ID 81636
quote:Forums generally are exactly that. As a shop assistant, you probably appreciate that people complain, moan and talk about stuff which is ill-informed nonsense.
Originally posted by radarkit
I thought forums were about lively debate and challenging of cosy fireside slipper views
Reply ID 81637
Being a shop assistant has taught me a lot about people and their set ideas, it's healthy and mind expanding to step out of your comfort zone and look outside of the box, one can then appreciate the bigger picture and have a better understanding ...........as for ill informed I would point to the original post which declared the Black Horse as being sold for residential, this is clearly not the case and could have had a damaging effect on an already struggling business.
Reply ID 81638
No,the opening post says that Greene King have opted to sell, which means that they will be selling in the future. It doesn't mean that it is sold
Reply ID 81639
quote:
Originally posted by radarkit as for ill informed I would point to the original post which declared the Black Horse as being sold for residential, this is clearly not the case and could have had a damaging effect on an already struggling business.
quote:Consistency not your strong point then?
Originally posted by radarkit ... besides which why the big Lament ?
Reply ID 81644
It does say "subject to planning permission".
Reply ID 81645
Before the hanging baskets, obviously [8D] [img]../images/forum/black-horse-sale-notice.jpg[/img] To be fair, they do appear to want to sell it as a going concern.
Reply ID 81646
It's a ridiculously cheap price for a property developer. If you look on Google earth, it's two houses,(one 3 storey) and a huge garden. There's no parking and no possible way of creating a drive or motor access to the back as far as I can see, unless you could get permission from the car park owner behind it.
Reply ID 81655
i think you have to pay VAT on this also....so 420k
Reply ID 81666
Sorry Guys I was winding you all up about being past it, no hard feelings eh . However ....... places and people do change and It seems to me that the drinking trade is now very much focused in the town centre. Anyway does anyone actually play dominos anymore ? If so can they teach me , maybe I can persuade the Sugar Hut to set up a little domino corner, You never know it was popular once it may just catch on again!
Reply ID 81667
quote:Err, you are obviously new to the area; Hertford has been like that since about 1827. The Sugar Hut is a dunny for people who enjoy the orange look and like to get ripped off. To the furthest point, it is exactly the opposite of what the people of Hertford need or want and that is probably why it fills up with dickheads from out of town innit.
Originally posted by radarkit
Sorry Guys I was winding you all up about being past it, no hard feelings eh . However ....... places and people do change and It seems to me that the drinking trade is now very much focused in the town centre. Anyway does anyone actually play dominos anymore ? If so can they teach me , maybe I can persuade the Sugar Hut to set up a little domino corner, You never know it was popular once it may just catch on again!
Reply ID 81668
whilst it is obvious that trade is always focused in the town centre, historically I think you will find that pubs were also on the outskirts, All the following outskirt pubs are now closed :The greyhound , The former Hill House My mum remembers a pub near the chinese at the bottom of Port Hill, The Dolphin, to name but a few , It seems that its the "just out of town pubs" that have suffered the most, I am not sure why this trend has happened. Any ideas ?
Reply ID 81670
quote:I suggest you take a trip up Bengeo Street. You may be surprised. The decline of the "local pub" is well documented elsewhere. Reasons include cheap supermarket booze, the smoking ban, high rents and overheads, changes to the structure of the pub trade since 1989, cultural changes... the list goes on. Google: "decline local pubs"
Originally posted by radarkit
All the following outskirt pubs are now closed :The greyhound
Reply ID 81677
quote:But the Millstream, the Bridgehouse, the Two Brewers, The Great Eastern and the Saracens all seem to be thriving? As for the Dolphin being "just out of town", it was opposite the station and didn't lack for customers.
Originally posted by radarkit
whilst it is obvious that trade is always focused in the town centre, historically I think you will find that pubs were also on the outskirts, All the following outskirt pubs are now closed :The greyhound , The former Hill House My mum remembers a pub near the chinese at the bottom of Port Hill, The Dolphin, to name but a few , It seems that its the "just out of town pubs" that have suffered the most, I am not sure why this trend has happened. Any ideas ?
Reply ID 81681
quote:and then, for Tuesday's homework, conjugate "drink"
Google: "decline local pubs"
Reply ID 81682
quote:With regard to the Greyhound, he may be thinking of the one that was on the corner of Russell St and Port Vale until the early 80's.
Originally posted by Stevequote:I suggest you take a trip up Bengeo Street. You may be surprised. The decline of the "local pub" is well documented elsewhere. Reasons include cheap supermarket booze, the smoking ban, high rents and overheads, changes to the structure of the pub trade since 1989, cultural changes... the list goes on. Google: "decline local pubs"
Originally posted by radarkit
All the following outskirt pubs are now closed :The greyhound
Reply ID 81692
Or the Warren House, perhaps.
Reply ID 81699
It was The Bell I belive near what is now the chinese. That went many many years ago.
Reply ID 81703
I thought that it was the Rose and Crown??
Reply ID 81707
Or wasn't it just The Crown?
Reply ID 81708
The Bell and Crown, we used it regularly on a friday night to play darts and drink a few light and bitters as Alf the landlord was quite happy to put up with 15 year olds as long as we behaved ourselves. Take a look at the link below: http://www.hertfordshire-genealogy.co.uk/data/answers/answers-2011/ans11-020-hertford-pubs.htm
Reply ID 81710
ahh,yes,The Bell and Crown,between us we got there in the end.Thank you Golden. [:)]
Reply ID 81717
Originally posted by Golden
The Bell and Crown, Alf the landlord was quite happy to put up with 15 year olds as long as we behaved ourselves.
[;)]
Reply ID 81719
quote:I saw the first post. You're nicked! [:D]
Originally posted by hertford born and bred
Originally posted by Golden
The Bell and Crown, Alf the landlord was quite happy to put up with 15 year olds as long as we behaved ourselves. [;)]
Reply ID 83284
quote:Contrary to the above post, the Black Horse is not dead!! The Horse is up and running as a Free House. Good luck to the new owner and his family. I hope they makes a massive success of their new venture. I understand that there are lots of plans in the pipeline for improvements. Long Live the Black Horse.
Originally posted by Mack E. Avelly
Regret to announce the imminent demise of the Black Horse. Greede King have opted to sell for residential purposes despite having a better offer on the table to keep the place going. Reminds me of the Hillside. Appears some firms are more interested in taking the supply out of the industry than giving someone else a chance to run their failures.
Reply ID 84177
I would confirm the up and running status of the Black Horse, which I visited last Wednesday. Good range of well kept real ales.
Reply ID 84565
The Black Horse freehouse is shaping up into a very good local pub. Well kept ales, a simple range of reasonably-priced good food, scrupulously clean toilets and a great team of staff. Wide screen telly and dog friendliness are drawbacks for me personally but not for many people. I understand a few refugees from the White Horse (closed for refurb) have made their way across the Evron Crossing to enjoy the Black Horse!
Reply ID 84566
I've heard some good reports too. Good beer and great atmosphere being top of the list, I hope its true as its a lovely local pub with a great garden out back (I've heard they're looking to improve that too) and the only pub in Hertford with a rugby team (RFU affiliated). Looking forward to finding out if the comments are true very soon.
Reply ID 84569
Popped in last night and was very pleasantly surprised to find an excellent Trelawneys and Woodfordes Wherry. I too found the atmosphere and staff very friendly and welcoming. The one downside for me was that the TV there is a bit intrusive for those wanting to have a chat with mates. However, I was hearing a definite commitment on behalf of the owner and manager to develop the BH as a true community pub and there are promising plans afoot for the range of real ales available. Hopefully will show what can happen when the incumbent has a free hand rather than having to contend with a leech-like brewery. Wish the new owner, manager and staff every success. I shall certainly be visiting again :-)
Reply ID 84571
The TV is a deal-breaker for me. I go to a pub to drink and chat. I don't want to be distracted by intrusive TVs, widescreen or otherwise.
Reply ID 84572
We popped in a couple of weeks ago...found th BH a bit bright, TV's and the beer not that great. But there was a party on so not a normal night. Have had good reports so we will give it another go.
Reply ID 84577
Steve, totally agree re TV and I for one would not make a pub my regular if it were dominated by TV. In fairness the manager said there was the possibility to turn the main screen off and engage a smaller one in a corner of the main bar if it transpired that that suited the clientele better, as and when. I would acknowledge that the previous management did quite a lot to increase the clientele and if TV is what suits then the current incumbents would be right to be cautious over changes. On the beer front And, I am assuming that the BH had a bit of Greene King legacy and/or feet finding to get through before rolling out the good stuff. I am not staff or related to or have any business interest in the BH :-) I would just like to see an independent succeed having witnessed the serial WH shipwrecks presided over by .... well definitely neither George nor the previous tenants ... better explained elsewhere on the forum.
Reply ID 84593
Cracking Mad Goose this evening. TV an unnecessary distraction.
Reply ID 84605
Pleased to see so many encouraging posts , very much in line with my own observations from recent visits to the BH. Shame about the intrusive TV!
Reply ID 84607
quote:I agree. With the exception of the football matches that attract an interested audience, at other times the channels selected appear to be irrevelevant to the pub. It almost feels as if the TV is there for the benefit of the bar staff to watch rather than for the customers enjoyment. On one recent visit, not seeing any customers watching the TV, I requested if the TV could be turned off or the volume turned down because my friends and I were having to talk loudly in order to have a conversation. The volume was turned down slightly. It is off-putting and detracts from the other changes that are happening that are making the BH a better pub; eg. the vastly improved toilets, the wider choice of beers (well kept) and the quality/value of the food.
Originally posted by Steve
. . . TV an unnecessary distraction.
Reply ID 84609
I've locked this thread in the hope that someone will start a new one with a more appropriate subject line!