Topic ID 1323
i was thinking the other day(dangerous at the best of times). how about pedestrianise fore street?? why not? cars do not need it, and i don't see the need for bus stops when theres a very large one round the corner! then we can have a big market in fore street, 6 days a week? who knows....any thoughts? (not that anything will ever happen!)
Reply ID 15977
Who wants all that toot that they sell on a Saturday cluttering up Fore Street every day of the week. What about deliveries, as there are no sevice roads. Also how would the Folly Islanders get to their homes? Two Pedestrian areas are enough in Hertford thank you.
Reply ID 15978
Wow, I find myself agreeing with Victor![:)]
Reply ID 15979
folly islanders can go through the existing route past the salisbury and to be honest if i lived down there i dont think i would bother with a car! parking is a nightmare! delivery drivers will do the same as they do in maidenhead street. main reason for the suggestion was the fact that if it wasnt for the name you would never realise we were living in a county town. i just think more should be done to encourage people to visit hertford. whether it be for shopping or entertainment. and i think market traders will be pleased to hear you describe their goods as toot!
Reply ID 15980
Have you walked through the market on a Saturday?? Stalls selling anything from bashed up tins of food to multi packs of Polish Batteries that probably only last 10 mins. The only decent stalls are the Flower stall, the Olive Stall, the Crepe stall and the fishing stall looks kinda interesting. Other than that toot. Get rid of the market and get some better shops in, that would get people to come to Hertford. The only kind of markets people like to see these days are the likes of Borough, Spitalfields and Camden markets. Yes Jimbo, sometimes people do agree with me.[:D]
Reply ID 15981
What about the Egg man Victor? He's the most vital stall out of any of them. And the woman selling old-school sweets (although she could fill the bags a bit more!). Those people selling cat/dog bedding and cushions for patio furniture - how much can they really make each week? Does every Hertford pet sleep on chav bedding??
Reply ID 15982
Sorry forgot about the Egg man, (I buy from the butchers Sele Farm)And have not seen the Old Sweet Lady (sounds like a Catherine Tate sketch) so far thats 6 stalls in all that offer decent merchandise. Im all for a market, but not one selling hand tools and alikes
Reply ID 15983
i agree we need better shops, but whos gonna open one with the price of rent and the lack of shoppers! you cant open a whole row of good shops in one day, but you can open a whole market. yes, some of the stalls might not be to your taste, but obviously theres a market for polish batteries and bashed up tins in hertford, else why would they be there. maybe we can make you the market inspector so we can make sure only "good" stalls are allowed to open!
Reply ID 15984
The market does mostly sell cheap £1 shop type goods. It’s not a market I would associate with an old historical market town like Hertford - most of the stuff is car boot fare. I don’t know if a ‘proper’ market could sustain itself everyday in Hertford. The market in St Albans for example is quite large and not there everyday and their town centre is far busier than Hertford. The bloke selling army stuff always intrigues me for Hertford what customer is he targeting: “I need my nails done, an estate agent, a curry and a Luftwaffe steel Nazi helmet”.
Reply ID 15985
there's plenty of room for a wet fish stall, and a butcher now. Never had anything decent from that guy in the butcher's truck. Obviously there's a cooling issue, but there is a daily market in Lewisham (where I hav the mis-fortune of working) and they have proper power supplies for cooling, lighting etc for each stall.
Reply ID 15986
we wont get the kind of stalls you associate with a historical market town until we have a proper market like a market town.
Reply ID 15989
So really everyone agrees that aside the few decent stalls, the market needs re-vamping. Wheres Wellard? St Albans is busy as it has the larger chain shops to pull in the punters ie Next, River Island, ect
Reply ID 15990
quote:? can you explain this please? Do you mean daily market?
Originally posted by m1ckyg
we wont get the kind of stalls you associate with a historical market town until we have a proper market like a market town.
Reply ID 15992
i think hertford is in a catch 22 situation right now with shopping. people dont come because there's nothing worth coming for, and good market stalls and shops don't set up because people don't come. it needs someone to take a gamble or things will just get gradually worse as they have been for years. Of course if your happy to buy everything from tesco then u have no need to worry!
Reply ID 15993
what stalls would you normally associate with a market town anyway?
Reply ID 15994
quote:not particularly, just that any trader with any kind of specialist or interesting stall is not going to consider hertford as it is not a popular market. but if it were up to me then yes daily! but i'm not suggesting that is the answer.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrewquote:? can you explain this please? Do you mean daily market?
Originally posted by m1ckyg
we wont get the kind of stalls you associate with a historical market town until we have a proper market like a market town.
Reply ID 15996
I disagree, there are several new shops that have opened up in the last year, Farrow and Farrow being one and that is always busy. Hertofrd has the people and the infostructure to support the bigger stores, it just does not have enough large enough buildings to accomodate them.
Reply ID 15997
BTW. Nice topic! certainly stirred things up on here this afternoon. I was beginning to think people had stopped debating!
Reply ID 15998
to an extent i agree there is an issue with buiding sizes, but there are a handful of useful size buidings, but they usually get taken by bars, restaurants and banks.
Reply ID 15999
quote:no worries, im new and thought it would be rude not to start something!
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
BTW. Nice topic! certainly stirred things up on here this afternoon. I was beginning to think people had stopped debating!
Reply ID 16002
quote:Here Here - I thought everyone had gone on holiday!! This week has really dragged without my normal contributions to the forum
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
BTW. Nice topic! certainly stirred things up on here this afternoon. I was beginning to think people had stopped debating!
Reply ID 16004
I thought that the farmer's market a couple of weeks ago was great, especially in terms of the meat (even though I'm a veggie! My husband was very pleased) and would encourage more farmer's markets. However I'm a bit fedup with the tat on some stalls, and the way that the clothes stall opposite Greggs now manages to make pedestrian access a nightmare along that narrow bit. There doesn't seem to be "craft" stalls. Last year, I went to the market near London Bridge (name escapes me) and that had a wonderful collection of stalls selling organic products, alcohol (probably why I can't remember the name) and selling hot food. Something like that would make Hertford a real destination and give a choice against using the supermarkets, especially as I don't know where all these local producers are (other than Farrow & Farrow which is very good). Not sure we could support it all week, just been in town and it's quite quiet, but can drum up support for more farmer's markets somehow??
Reply ID 16006
quote:I think that's Borough Market.
Originally posted by SMT
Last year, I went to the market near London Bridge (name escapes me)
Reply ID 16007
Yes that Borough Market. Me and my better half went there a few weeks ago. Absolutely fantastic market selling all sorts of exotic foods and drinks. Hertford market is a bit shabby I admit but its nice that we have one and Id like to see it stay. It does need a bit of a revamp I think. More of a farmers market less of a cheap tacky Bovingdon market stylee.
Reply ID 16010
Borough Market pulls in punters and is renowned. http://www.boroughmarket.org.uk/ Its my idea of a real market. Rather than cheap clothes, packets of nearly out of date sweets, dented cans, etc.
Reply ID 16011
I agree but I just cant imagine it in Hertford somehow can you?!
Reply ID 16012
No. If markets had a scale then Borough would be at the higher end, I just feel Hertford's is at the lower end. I would like to see it move a few notches up.
Reply ID 16013
Well this went off topic almost as soon as it started. The thread was about whether or not to pedestrianise Fore Street but quickly got diverted on to a discussion about the merits of the existing market. Please, when a poster starts a discussion, have the courtesy to address the primary issue rather than using it as an excuse to pursue your own agenda. Sorry for the intemporate tone, but it just gets to me sometimes. No offence [8D]
Reply ID 16014
The topic was 'save hertford' he gave his suggestion - pedestrianise Hertford. Mine is get a nicer market. *edit* Topic title now changed, ruining my point [}:)]
Reply ID 16016
The initial post specifically proposed the pedestrianisation of Fore Street and nothing else. "Save Hertford" was too broad a subject line. Pehaps the original poster could make it clear whether they want to discuss ways of "saving Hertford" (and you could also have a discussion about whether Hertford NEEDS saving and if so, what from) or simply the idea of pedestrianising Fore Street.
Reply ID 16018
How on earth can we keep track - conversations take on different avenues sometimes. The topic was brought up about pedestrianising Fore Street for a market - we're discussing the market - surley thats not too far off topic.... Crikey
Reply ID 16019
The topic was how pedestrianising Fore Street and putting a market on it would enhance Hertford. The Borough Market comments were examples of what a decent market should look like, so in my mine and most others, very much on topic. I little anal I think.
Reply ID 16021
Steve, the topic was suggesting pedesrianising Fore Street and relocating the market there. The discussions then moved on to debate whether or not Hertford's Market warranted an area as big as a pedestrianised Fore Street. Admittedly it moved a little off-topic, but in light of the opening post, I think the discussion was warranted. Admin - can you move offending Posts to a new topic
Reply ID 16022
"Conversations"? This is not a chat room - it's a discussion forum. It is avalable to everyone, not just forum members, as a source of information. If that information is unstructured then it's value is lessened.
Reply ID 16024
you lot are really not doing much too encourage newcomers!! maybe we should change the title to "discussing what the discussion is" As the poster I am more than happy with all posts, everyone has raised interesting issues, I was merely making a random suggesting into how hertford could be made more attractive to shoppers and that my honest opinion is that hertford should be a market town with a market to be proud of. Suggesting the pedestrianisation of fore street was merely a way i could see of creating more market space with very little disruption to anything else(except people picking up dry cleaning!). If we were to make every discussion so specific we would be jumping from one post to another to cover all the issues. this one is fine...continue!
Reply ID 16025
Folly Island access could be moved to via Harthams car park. Seems a much more sensible entrance/exit route. Of course, they may prefer it if Old Cross is reverted to a mini roundabout with pedestrian controlled clossings (or zebra crossings). Apparently there is only one pedestrianised area in Hertford and that's Bircherly Green - despite appearances of other streets. I don't have a lot of issue with market and have used a number of stalls there, but a larger area for its use may well attract more and a greater variety of stalls. Deliveries are the main issue that would need dealing with, but I'm sure it could be sorted. Other towns have done so.
Reply ID 16028
Converation: an informal talk with somebody, especially about opinions, ideas, feelings, or everyday matters
Forum: a medium, for example a magazine or newspaper, in which the public may debate an issue or express opinions
I hope this clears things up Steve sorry I mean Admin.
Reply ID 16029
Can you explain the difference admin between a 'conversation' between new and old forum members and a 'discussion' between the same. Maybe if I understand this then I wont be making the same mistake..
Reply ID 16031
Conversations typically feature throwaway remarks and posts that contribute nothing to the debate. "I agree" and "here here" are examples.
Reply ID 16032
OK - so we cant outwardly appear to agree or 'back up' someone who has said something about anything..............um.............OK Maybe you should list the remarks youd like people to stay away from.
Reply ID 16035
Was enjoying the thread of this whole conversation until the usual interruption of someone complaining about a slight diversion. Let it flow as it flows. But yes Hertford market does need a revamp, do we need an acre of sweet stall and tatty clothes. More fresh food, organic that sort of stuff. If only all markets could be Borough Market. As for pedestrianising Fore Street? No, don't think its busy enough. Hardly made Maidenhead Street attractive has it?
Reply ID 16036
So was I Sargasso - Im just annoyed now. Discussions or conversations between new or old forum members are going to move around a bit - thats what happens when people debate. I cant believe one isnt alowed to agree with another forum member on their opinion by saying things like 'here here'. Im almost inclined to noth bother with this forum anymore. P.S I agree about pedestrianising Fore Street. I love Hertford because its small and if we encouraged a market that would fill Fore Street and Maidenhead it would end up being as busy as St Albans which is a nightmare on market days. Not that I want to discourage business in Hertford.
Reply ID 16037
quote:I think the problems occured with "Borough Market" came into the conversation - any post that moves from the subject of Hertford is liable for a pasting from Admin! Don't go Millster, it will limit debating opportunities. To assist the debate - Keep Fore Street for cars, thats my view. How am I going to drive my SUV up it and park in the bus stop whilst I drop my dry cleaning off if it is closed to cars? [;)]
Originally posted by Millster
So was I Sargasso - Im just annoyed now. Discussions or conversations between new or old forum members are going to move around a bit - thats what happens when people debate. I cant believe one isnt alowed to agree with another forum member on their opinion by saying things like 'here here'. Im almost inclined to noth bother with this forum anymore. P.S I agree about pedestrianising Fore Street. I love Hertford because its small and if we encouraged a market that would fill Fore Street and Maidenhead it would end up being as busy as St Albans which is a nightmare on market days. Not that I want to discourage business in Hertford.
Reply ID 16038
Watch it, or he will take his bat and ball home with him[:D] Why should we try and emulate St Albans anyway? So what if the County Town is not as big and busy as St Albans. WGC and Stevanage are much bigger and busier and I would not want to end up like them. You can more or less get everything you need in Hertford (sometimes at a premium)Add a couple of mid range clothes shops a shoe shop a two and there you have it.
Reply ID 16039
Thanks Spotty Dog your right (Im not sure now if Im even allowed to say that!) Borough Market was a comparison. Admin has it seems a problem with saying things like 'here here' when one agrees with another statement thats been made. Dare I say - I agree with you - keep Fore Street as it is! But lets improve the market we do have in the location its already in.
Reply ID 16040
quote:"Here here" [:)] Actually, that limits debate! I think it should be shut off to all traffic, and have some of those really good posts that go up and down for the buses like they have in Hoddesdon which go wrong and then when they do we can read all about it on the front page of the Mercury - "Man trapped on bus for 20 minutes due to failed automatic posts starts to eat his own hand in desperate attempt to survive". Even better, someone on one of those mobility scooters will get stuck between them because their scooter was powered by Polish batteries from the dodgy market stall.
Originally posted by Millster
Dare I say - I agree with you - keep Fore Street as it is! But lets improve the market we do have in the location its already in.
Reply ID 16041
quote:Comments like "here here" contribute nothing to the discussion. As I said, there are other people reading these threads and whether or not you agree with a remark is neither here nor there. I know for a fact that some former members no longer post here because they get fed up with the perceived flippant attitude of some posters and the conversational nature of discussions. I'm sorry if some members don't like the way the forums are moderated - it's a diffcult job sometimes. At the end of the day however, everyone is a guest here and should respect Admin's judgement.
Originally posted by Millster
I cant believe one isnt alowed to agree with another forum member on their opinion by saying things like 'here here'.
Reply ID 16043
quote:Disagree. It's good to get a gauge on which sides of a point people sit. Bit bland if everyone just spouts facts. Anyway best topic on here I've seen. But must say last summer when Fore Street was blocked off and turned into a Mediterranean market, that was superb. We must have spent over an hour browsing. So how about just closing it off once a month for something really special.
there are other people reading these threads and whether or not you agree with a remark is neither here nor there.
Reply ID 16045
There is no reason that Hertford Market should be grim (by the way, I think the furniture stall at the end of Maidenhead Street is good, and so is the flower stall). If Fore Street were pedestrianised on Saturdays, I am sure the Market would improve, that would attract more people in, which would encourage other shops into Hertford. I think it sounds like a really good idea.
Reply ID 16047
Or even "hear hear" !!! [:D][:D][:D]
quote:
Originally posted by Adminquote:Comments like "here here" contribute nothing to the discussion. As I said, there are other people reading these threads and whether or not you agree with a remark is neither here nor there. I know for a fact that some former members no longer post here because they get fed up with the perceived flippant attitude of some posters and the conversational nature of discussions. I'm sorry if some members don't like the way the forums are moderated - it's a diffcult job sometimes. At the end of the day however, everyone is a guest here and should respect Admin's judgement.
Originally posted by Millster
I cant believe one isnt alowed to agree with another forum member on their opinion by saying things like 'here here'.
Reply ID 16057
Personally, I'd like to see fore street paved over, along with Railway, Bulls Plain and Martet St. Folly Island people can go via McMullens, and the bus stop can remain as is. Deliverys could be made only at certain times of the day. It works in many old town set ups.
Reply ID 16059
I have to say I agree with Dude - The only problem would be the complete loss of free short stay parking in Hertford Town Centre.
Reply ID 16062
So much in so little time - quite the hot topic of the day! Fore Street - love to pedestrianise but ... there are so many residents living down there. You would be surprised at the numbers and they all want to park their cars down there or at least in the road. And what about the taxi marshalling scheme. The Continental market was appreciated by the majority of people but not the shopkeepers so won't be repeated. Fore Street leads to everywhere else and shopkeepers have to have deliveries - delivery men, large multiples etc do not think in terms of the town, they deliver when they can so you cannot force them to make drops when we feel they ought to ie before 9.00am. The charter market being a conservative beast would not be happy about moving from wherever they are at the moment. If they did move to Fore Street then there might have to be a road closure every Saturday. When the Continental Market took place it didn't go according to plan and the buses had to go round town by way of Gascoyne Way and guess what! - no one complained. Equally the taxi drivers entered town by Parliament square and they didn't complain either. As for Folly Island - the proposal to reverse the traffic flow is now very much on the back burner if not now consigned to the great planning department in the sky. Apart from a small or large number of residents depending who you listen to, this is considered a good idea but until McMullens makes up its mind about Dolphin Yard, Hartham Lane and a few other developments there is going to be no action on any of the above. I believe that somewhere on someones drawing board there is a plan to 'enhance' Bull Plain (but see above), pedestrianise Salisbury Square completely so that not much traffic gets past the Corn Exchange and redesign the street furniture - signage to me and you - in Parliament Square. The result would be a partial pedestrianisation of Fore Street. It would all be very nice if a great big hole would open up somewhere in which we could park our cars. Until then the market will stay where it is and residents on the Island will continue to watch repeats of Passport to Pimlico and dream on. I hope that is all very clear. Would love to carry on but way past my bedtime.
Reply ID 16069
I was going to suggest that access to Folly Island could be via the new bridge that Mac's have proposed. I think that pedestrianising the street would obviously never receive backing from residents & shop-owners along the street, due to access etc. It's a real shanme to hear that the Continental market wont be repeated. Which shopkeepers actualy complained? Obviously not requesting you to name names, but was it Fore Street or just retaillers in general upset by the competition?
Reply ID 16101
I think personally that the whole of the internal town centre should be pedestrianised - end of. Set up a Park and Ride system if need be.
Reply ID 16111
Why not demolish Folly Island. Problem solved !
Reply ID 16114
quote:I have often thought that the answer to all my town centre problems would be to blow up Folly Bridge.[}:)]
Why not demolish Folly Island. Problem solved !
quote:It did cause access problems for everyone in Fore Street and a few in particular. One of the reasons being that the Market organiser decided he needed both sides of Fore Street at about 6.30pm on the Friday evening. C'est la vie! Speaking of markets the most complaints came from the charter market who have since realised that on days that the Farmers Market takes place their takings go up.
Which shopkeepers actualy complained? Obviously not requesting you to name names, but was it Fore Street or just retaillers in general upset by the competition?
Reply ID 16131
quote:OI !!!!!
Why not demolish Folly Island. Problem solved !
Reply ID 16831
It probably soon will be - trading is generally declining as fewer people can be bothered with the hassle of driving there. Expect to see more shops gradually closing down.
quote:
Originally posted by Wrapper
I think personally that the whole of the internal town centre should be pedestrianised - end of. Set up a Park and Ride system if need be.
Reply ID 27516
Discussion continued [url="http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=2068"]here[/url]