Sustainable Transport and the East Herts draft District Plan

Your views on traffic and parking in the town
Joby
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue 03 Dec, 2013 12:09 pm

Re: Sustainable Transport and the East Herts draft District

Postby Joby » Tue 18 Mar, 2014 4:57 pm

Kateg28 wrote:
Joby wrote:
Kateg28 wrote:Yes, I do sound like I am making up excuses, even to myself, but I genuinely do not know how I could do without the cars.


I wasn't suggesting you should or could do without them - the family car is a necessary evil unfortunately. My post was aimed more towards unnecessary car journeys within Hertford (at it's traffic congestion in the town that we're discussing) - being dropped off at the station instead of walking, driving to the gym or into town for coffee, driving kids to school instead of them cycling or walking etc. In my opinion, it is these journeys that the plan should be attempting to reduce/eliminate.

(As an aside, I foolishly attempted to do our Christmas shop on the bike this year, and realised quite quickly that my panniers look significantly bigger on the outside than they are on the inside...cue quick journey home to fetch the car...)

Kateg28
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue 03 Dec, 2013 9:53 am

Re: Sustainable Transport and the East Herts draft District

Postby Kateg28 » Tue 18 Mar, 2014 5:23 pm

Joby wrote:being dropped off at the station instead of walking, driving to the gym or into town for coffee, driving kids to school instead of them cycling or walking etc. In my opinion, it is these journeys that the plan should be attempting to reduce/eliminate.

Arrggghhh school run. My favourite bug bear. Some of them will be pick ups on the way to/from work so understandable but I reckon half of them could be removed if people were not so lazy and looking after their precious darlings. And then they block the road whilst they have a chat. :evil: :x :evil: :x My son walks to school and it takes him 40 minutes (he is 16 now I admit but has been doing it since year 7)

(my OH does drop me in the morning at the station :oops: but it is on his way to work. I do walk home, uphill, takes me 20/25 minutes but I walk so slow I get overtaken by glaciers :D )

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james
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon 02 Dec, 2013 12:22 pm

Re: Sustainable Transport and the East Herts draft District

Postby james » Tue 18 Mar, 2014 9:26 pm

I'd say Hertford is at Gridlock. Regulary now on Saturdays the town is at a standstill. For example, I cycled to town on Saturday at about 11am. In the time it took me to pick up some new brake pads from Highway Cycles and then go down to Sainsbury's to do a small shop of about £20 worth of basics, there were cars still queuing to get out of Hartham lane. In fact cars were queuing around the Sainsbury's car park, and that queue extended all the way out along the Wash and St.Andrew St to the A414, where traffic was also at crawling pace. More than likely I was back home with a brew on while those cars were still crawling out of Hartham Lane.

Thing is though, with the town full of traffic, why would anyone want to cycle amongst all that. It's bloody lethal. That's why you only see nobhead men under 50 like me out on bikes and not normal people such as women, children and the elderly. The only way of getting around this is to use the stick of removing cars from the town centre and the carrot of building proper Dutch style cycle and walking infrastructure that puts the most vulnerable of road users first.

buzz
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun 01 Dec, 2013 5:06 pm

Re: Sustainable Transport and the East Herts draft District

Postby buzz » Wed 19 Mar, 2014 8:00 am

I may have mentioned this on the old forum, but I believe there are some measures that could be taken to alleviate some of the traffic problems in the town. Firstly, the cab rank outside The Woolpack could be moved to outside Deco's in Parliament Square and Red lines installed from the Old Cross traffic lights up to Parliament Square, which would include no parking/waiting for Blue Badge holders as well. At present, vehicles waiting at the lights to turn right to go to Bengeo conflict with buses and other large vehicles when there are cabs and Blue Badge holders (and people going to the chip shop etc) parked there. This causes a tailback with vehicles from St. Andrew Street blocking the lights. When the lights turn green for Bengeo bound traffic no-one can go anywhere. In addition, by placing the cab rank outside Deco's where there is a limited time parking bay at present, it would be better placed for evening revellers using The Blackbirds, Hertford House, etc, thus reducing the likelihood of disorder problems in the evenings. Secondly the parking bays in St Andrew Street opposite Beckwith's should be scrapped. It is the narrowest part of the street, and when vehicles are parked there, buses and other large vehicles cannot pass if there are vehicles coming in the opposite direction. No doubt the planners would argue this helps to slow traffic, but anyone who knows the area would know that is a nonsense. Another problem that needs to be addressed is the situation between the War Memorial and The Shire Hall. At present there are frequent 'Mexican stand-offs' between buses travelling towards the War Memorial and vehicles travelling from it. This often results in buses having to mount the pavement in order to pass, causing damage to the paving stones. This could be made a 'Buses Only' route in both directions with an execption for delivery vehicles going to Market Place. Initially this would have to be policed as people would be inclined to take a chance. As it is, I often see private cars and vans contravening the 'Buses only' restriction. At present, with all vehicles entering the town centre from the War Memorial we have the situation where there are more entry points into the town than exits. Finally, why not open up an exit route from Sainsbury's by allowing vehicles to pass through the Hartham Car park, over the bridge and onto Port Hill. None of the above measures would cost much to implement, and surely they must be worth a try.

codek2
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue 12 Nov, 2013 4:32 pm

Re: Sustainable Transport and the East Herts draft District

Postby codek2 » Wed 19 Mar, 2014 9:48 am

good question buzz, never understood why the car park to port hill was blocked off?? there must be some history behind this?

Joby
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue 03 Dec, 2013 12:09 pm

Re: Sustainable Transport and the East Herts draft District

Postby Joby » Wed 19 Mar, 2014 9:54 am

james wrote:Thing is though, with the town full of traffic, why would anyone want to cycle amongst all that. It's bloody lethal. That's why you only see nobhead men under 50 like me out on bikes and not normal people such as women, children and the elderly. The only way of getting around this is to use the stick of removing cars from the town centre and the carrot of building proper Dutch style cycle and walking infrastructure that puts the most vulnerable of road users first.


Ha ha, a fellow MAMIL I see (although I'm not convinced I'm quite MA yet...) This is a chicken-and-egg situation...people won't switch cars for bikes until there is a perception of safety on the roads, but that perception of safety is not reached until you have a critical mass of cyclists on the roads. I'm not convinced that Dutch-style cycle infrastructure is the necessarily the answer (see Stevenage for an example of a town with a superb segregated cycle network that is virtually empty http://www.roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/stevenage/). A change in motorist mentality is required to recognise cyclists as legitimate road users and not just obstacles in the way.

buzz wrote:I may have mentioned this on the old forum, but I believe there are some measures that could be taken to alleviate some of the traffic problems in the town. Firstly, the cab rank outside The Woolpack could be moved to outside Deco's in Parliament Square and Red lines installed from the Old Cross traffic lights up to Parliament Square, which would include no parking/waiting for Blue Badge holders as well. At present, vehicles waiting at the lights to turn right to go to Bengeo conflict with buses and other large vehicles when there are cabs and Blue Badge holders (and people going to the chip shop etc) parked there. This causes a tailback with vehicles from St. Andrew Street blocking the lights. When the lights turn green for Bengeo bound traffic no-one can go anywhere. In addition, by placing the cab rank outside Deco's where there is a limited time parking bay at present, it would be better placed for evening revellers using The Blackbirds, Hertford House, etc, thus reducing the likelihood of disorder problems in the evenings. Secondly the parking bays in St Andrew Street opposite Beckwith's should be scrapped. It is the narrowest part of the street, and when vehicles are parked there, buses and other large vehicles cannot pass if there are vehicles coming in the opposite direction. No doubt the planners would argue this helps to slow traffic, but anyone who knows the area would know that is a nonsense. Another problem that needs to be addressed is the situation between the War Memorial and The Shire Hall. At present there are frequent 'Mexican stand-offs' between buses travelling towards the War Memorial and vehicles travelling from it. This often results in buses having to mount the pavement in order to pass, causing damage to the paving stones. This could be made a 'Buses Only' route in both directions with an execption for delivery vehicles going to Market Place. Initially this would have to be policed as people would be inclined to take a chance. As it is, I often see private cars and vans contravening the 'Buses only' restriction. At present, with all vehicles entering the town centre from the War Memorial we have the situation where there are more entry points into the town than exits. Finally, why not open up an exit route from Sainsbury's by allowing vehicles to pass through the Hartham Car park, over the bridge and onto Port Hill. None of the above measures would cost much to implement, and surely they must be worth a try.


All sensible suggestions for improving traffic flow, although nothing that would actually reduce the number of cars. So rather like loosening the belt to cure being fat. I think both aspects need to be tackled. The fact remains that there are just too many cars in town, whether they be parked on pavements and junctions or crawling through the congested streets.

Joby
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue 03 Dec, 2013 12:09 pm

Re: Sustainable Transport and the East Herts draft District

Postby Joby » Wed 19 Mar, 2014 9:58 am

codek2 wrote:good question buzz, never understood why the car park to port hill was blocked off?? there must be some history behind this?


I wonder if there was a history of rat-running i.e. cars queuing down Port Hill, nipping through the car park and out of Hartham Lane to avoid the queues. I can't think of any other sensible reason (although that obviously does not rule out a ridiculous one!)

Anorak
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri 06 Dec, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: Sustainable Transport and the East Herts draft District

Postby Anorak » Wed 19 Mar, 2014 10:25 am

I wonder if there was a history of rat-running i.e. cars queuing down Port Hill, nipping through the car park and out of Hartham Lane to avoid the queues. I can't think of any other sensible reason (although that obviously does not rule out a ridiculous one!)
Joby

Posts: 29
Joined: Tue 03 Dec, 2013 11:09 am


Hit the nail on the head :)

Robbo
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun 01 Dec, 2013 7:19 pm

Re: Sustainable Transport and the East Herts draft District

Postby Robbo » Wed 19 Mar, 2014 10:27 am

buzz wrote:I may have mentioned this on the old forum, but I believe there are some measures that could be taken to alleviate some of the traffic problems in the town. Firstly, the cab rank outside The Woolpack could be moved to outside Deco's in Parliament Square and Red lines installed from the Old Cross traffic lights up to Parliament Square, which would include no parking/waiting for Blue Badge holders as well. At present, vehicles waiting at the lights to turn right to go to Bengeo conflict with buses and other large vehicles when there are cabs and Blue Badge holders (and people going to the chip shop etc) parked there. This causes a tailback with vehicles from St. Andrew Street blocking the lights. When the lights turn green for Bengeo bound traffic no-one can go anywhere. In addition, by placing the cab rank outside Deco's where there is a limited time parking bay at present, it would be better placed for evening revellers using The Blackbirds, Hertford House, etc, thus reducing the likelihood of disorder problems in the evenings. Secondly the parking bays in St Andrew Street opposite Beckwith's should be scrapped. It is the narrowest part of the street, and when vehicles are parked there, buses and other large vehicles cannot pass if there are vehicles coming in the opposite direction. No doubt the planners would argue this helps to slow traffic, but anyone who knows the area would know that is a nonsense. Another problem that needs to be addressed is the situation between the War Memorial and The Shire Hall. At present there are frequent 'Mexican stand-offs' between buses travelling towards the War Memorial and vehicles travelling from it. This often results in buses having to mount the pavement in order to pass, causing damage to the paving stones. This could be made a 'Buses Only' route in both directions with an execption for delivery vehicles going to Market Place. Initially this would have to be policed as people would be inclined to take a chance. As it is, I often see private cars and vans contravening the 'Buses only' restriction. At present, with all vehicles entering the town centre from the War Memorial we have the situation where there are more entry points into the town than exits. Finally, why not open up an exit route from Sainsbury's by allowing vehicles to pass through the Hartham Car park, over the bridge and onto Port Hill. None of the above measures would cost much to implement, and surely they must be worth a try.


Excellent post Buzz. You have very succinctly phrased the issues that could easily be tackled and would go some way to resolving the pinch points in the town centre. Why don't you stand for election to the local council - you would get my vote!!!!

codek2
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue 12 Nov, 2013 4:32 pm

Re: Sustainable Transport and the East Herts draft District

Postby codek2 » Wed 19 Mar, 2014 12:48 pm

so perhaps allow one way? allow the sainsburys traffic to exit via port hill if they want to..
(mecanically enforced by those things in the road)


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